Just seen on the news that the UK is to give another £70 million to the pakistani flood appeal, bringing the total amount donated by HM goverment to £134 million.
Let me see if ive got this right, apperently the countries skint and we have to cut back on spending, including axeing police officers, and yet we can still give £134 million to the flood appeal.
Am I missing something here? :sad:
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£134 million!
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Quote by browning
Just seen on the news that the UK is to give another £70 million to the pakistani flood appeal, bringing the total amount donated by HM goverment to £134 million.
Let me see if ive got this right, apperently the countries skint and we have to cut back on spending, including axeing police officers, and yet we can still give £134 million to the flood appeal.
Am I missing something here? :sad:
No your not Browning.
It is a fact that a lot of this aid goes missing along the way, so the very people that need it only get a percentage...where the rest goes I can only sumise.
Charity for me always begins at home, and sorry whilst I do have sympathy for the flood victims....they will get none of my money, not a penny.
I have far better things to spend my money on, like cancer research for British kids, or cancer research in general. That is where my money goes too. It does not go to a country where a lot of the aid will vanish into thin air, and not help anyone of the flood victims.
Will some of the money raised possibly find itself in the hands of terrorosts that operate in that area? In my view it will do.
IF Pakistan have the money to spend on huge armies and nuclear capability, then they have or should have the money to look after their own people.
My money is staying firmly in my bank account.
The child hating the west nonsense, is a tactic that charities use to make you put your hand in your pocket....what makes anyone think this child will hate the west? Is there any proof at all of this, or is it purely a means to make people think it might to part with their money? Not from here it will not.
Sex God
Quote by Kaznkev
If compassion doesnt work,how about real politik?
Either look at the picture and feel symapthy,or wonder how we can practically prevent the child growing up hating the west.
Why would we want to?
Sex God
Quote by GnV
So then Kaz, the floods in Pakistan were caused by the west?
Isn't that what you're saying?
Aha... is that what I'm missing?
Quote by browningyes you are browning. all government foreign aid is conditional. usually, the money has to be spent with british companies carrying out contracts for works or to buy local politicians/influence within a geostrategic plan.
Just seen on the news that the UK is to give another £70 million to the pakistani flood appeal, bringing the total amount donated by HM goverment to £134 million.
Let me see if ive got this right, apperently the countries skint and we have to cut back on spending, including axeing police officers, and yet we can still give £134 million to the flood appeal.
Am I missing something here? :sad:
no free lunches here or maybe a poisoned chalice ?
Sex God
Quote by Kaznkev
If compassion doesnt work,how about real politik?
Either look at the picture and feel symapthy,or wonder how we can practically prevent the child growing up hating the west.
Why would the child hate westerners any more because there was a flood in their country? Why would we want to prevent them from hating us?
The children in that picture look reasonably well-fed and clothed. There are people in this country who don't even have those basic needs attended to, for a variety of reasons. Was any money forthcoming from the Pakistani government a few years ago when we suffered the terrible floods? I doubt it. We managed. As will they, with assistance from their own government. As has been pointed out, our government is currently making huge cuts across a range of services which will affect a large proportion of people in this country. We shouldn't be sending £134 million abroad to anyone if those cuts are so necessary.
Sex God
Quote by Kaznkev
Most government aid comes with strings,why do you think America and Britain were the first to give aid?
Blows the compassion and sympathy argument out of the water then, I'd say. True compassion and sympathy should have no strings or political motives.
The reasons given here seem fair...
They are a corrupt country and in places actively encourage terrorists. Do people want to see their money possibly get into the hands of the Taliban, and then used against British troops?
I know I am not going to take the chance.
"It is a sad fact that any money that is raised is largely going to be purloined along the way from collecting tin in your High Street to Flood victim".
They are a corrupt country and in places actively encourage terrorists. Do people want to see their money possibly get into the hands of the Taliban, and then used against British troops?
I know I am not going to take the chance.
"It is a sad fact that any money that is raised is largely going to be purloined along the way from collecting tin in your High Street to Flood victim".
Quote by Kaznkev
So then Kaz, the floods in Pakistan were caused by the west?
Isn't that what you're saying?
Erm,no where on earth have i said that?
i give because i hope it will alleviate as the US Govenment has admitted most of their aid is sent in order to convince the average person that America is not the is a long,open history of aid being given to influence opinion on the isnt even news,i studied it for my o level geography 20 years ago.
Why people think it means i think we caused the flood is beyond me
Then why say:
Quote by Kaznkev
...or wonder how we can practically prevent the child growing up hating the west.
Why else would the child grow up hating the west? I need that bit of thinking to be explained more fully.
Sex God
Quote by Kaznkev
Noyt to me it doesnt,i can think of any number of news stories that suggest there is anti western feeling in parts of the world.
So what? What does the flood have to do with people being anti-western?
Sex God
Quote by Freckledbird
So what? What does the flood have to do with people being anti-western?
This is what confused me... I don't get it.
Sex God
Quote by kentswingers777
I thought it was just me that did not get it.
The only reason that I can see is IF the child thought the West was responsible for the floods....which we are not !
Nah, a flood is an act of God/Allah/whoever isn't it? For insurance purposes at least?
Quote by Kaznkev
If compassion doesnt work,how about real politik?
Either look at the picture and feel symapthy,or wonder how we can practically prevent the child growing up hating the west.
Why hate us, how about their own government coughing up some cash, i'm sure the Pakistani Prime Minister could sell his French Villa that he was staying in when the floods were happening!
Is it really so difficult to see what kaz was saying and meaning !!!
There is a great amount of anti-west feeling in alot of asian countries. This is mostly generated by extremists in that country. They tell these poor deprived people about how rich the west has become, on the back of the pittance of money they pay these people to work in their factories. They depict the west as the big bad ogre...uncareing and just on look out to line there own pockets, at any expense. Maybe..just maybe if they see the west giving them aid, and asisistance, they might think twice about what these extremists are telling them.
Also was mentioned earlier about some of the money falling into the wrong hands. This happened in the 1970's...and lessons were learnt. All the aid is now given in the form of goods ..such as tents, blankets, clothes, medicine, food..etc etc.....all these items are heavily branded as aid donated by UK or whoever . This is deliberatly done so that the people who recieve these goods, know exactly where they came from....for the reason given above.
I am not here to comment on the rights or wrongs of giving the aid...... but although giving the aid is shown as an act of compassion, ..as in most things there is also a motive at the back end of it.
What price a life I guess !! If it stops 1 person becoming a suicide bomber, and killing and maiming numerous innocent people, would you then consider it worth it ???
There is a great amount of anti-west feeling in alot of asian countries. This is mostly generated by extremists in that country. They tell these poor deprived people about how rich the west has become, on the back of the pittance of money they pay these people to work in their factories. They depict the west as the big bad ogre...uncareing and just on look out to line there own pockets, at any expense. Maybe..just maybe if they see the west giving them aid, and asisistance, they might think twice about what these extremists are telling them.
Also was mentioned earlier about some of the money falling into the wrong hands. This happened in the 1970's...and lessons were learnt. All the aid is now given in the form of goods ..such as tents, blankets, clothes, medicine, food..etc etc.....all these items are heavily branded as aid donated by UK or whoever . This is deliberatly done so that the people who recieve these goods, know exactly where they came from....for the reason given above.
I am not here to comment on the rights or wrongs of giving the aid...... but although giving the aid is shown as an act of compassion, ..as in most things there is also a motive at the back end of it.
What price a life I guess !! If it stops 1 person becoming a suicide bomber, and killing and maiming numerous innocent people, would you then consider it worth it ???
Sex God
One thing I've never heard mentioned in the media or by the World's leaders, is the Pakistani Nuclear Weapons.
The following idea has been kicked around at work a lot and if we can think of it why has no-one else?
Obviously Pakistan is in a desperate state with the floods and is appealing for monetary help from the rest of the World.
They also have Nuclear weapons which the Americans are worried will fall into the hands of terrorists.
Could the Pakistanis not therefore sell their Nuclear weapons to the USA? I'd guess the USA would be willing to pay several billions of dollars to remove the chance of them falling into the wrong hands.
Think of the kudos and good will which would go to Pakistan if they did this.
Of course they would have to agree to allow UN inspectors in to verify and India would have to give guarantees that they would not use their Nuclear weapons against a disarmed Pakistan.
An analogy would be if my house had a very damaging flood, I had no house insurance but had a Bentley tucked away in the garage. If my house was wrecked by floods I could ask friends and workmates for donations to help. But if they found out I had a Bentley which I didn't want to sell.............guess they would be less likely to help !!
If however, the above idea has been thought of and the Pakistanis think more of keeping their weapons than selling them to help their own people then it may explain why there has not been a greater level of donations.
John
The following idea has been kicked around at work a lot and if we can think of it why has no-one else?
Obviously Pakistan is in a desperate state with the floods and is appealing for monetary help from the rest of the World.
They also have Nuclear weapons which the Americans are worried will fall into the hands of terrorists.
Could the Pakistanis not therefore sell their Nuclear weapons to the USA? I'd guess the USA would be willing to pay several billions of dollars to remove the chance of them falling into the wrong hands.
Think of the kudos and good will which would go to Pakistan if they did this.
Of course they would have to agree to allow UN inspectors in to verify and India would have to give guarantees that they would not use their Nuclear weapons against a disarmed Pakistan.
An analogy would be if my house had a very damaging flood, I had no house insurance but had a Bentley tucked away in the garage. If my house was wrecked by floods I could ask friends and workmates for donations to help. But if they found out I had a Bentley which I didn't want to sell.............guess they would be less likely to help !!
If however, the above idea has been thought of and the Pakistanis think more of keeping their weapons than selling them to help their own people then it may explain why there has not been a greater level of donations.
John
Sexlightened
Quote by deancannock
Is it really so difficult to see what kaz was saying and meaning !!!
There is a great amount of anti-west feeling in alot of asian countries. This is mostly generated by extremists in that country. They tell these poor deprived people about how rich the west has become, on the back of the pittance of money they pay these people to work in their factories. They depict the west as the big bad ogre...uncareing and just on look out to line there own pockets, at any expense. Maybe..just maybe if they see the west giving them aid, and asisistance, they might think twice about what these extremists are telling them.
Also was mentioned earlier about some of the money falling into the wrong hands. This happened in the 1970's...and lessons were learnt. All the aid is now given in the form of goods ..such as tents, blankets, clothes, medicine, food..etc etc.....all these items are heavily branded as aid donated by UK or whoever . This is deliberatly done so that the people who recieve these goods, know exactly where they came from....for the reason given above.
I am not here to comment on the rights or wrongs of giving the aid...... but although giving the aid is shown as an act of compassion, ..as in most things there is also a motive at the back end of it.
What price a life I guess !! If it stops 1 person becoming a suicide bomber, and killing and maiming numerous innocent people, would you then consider it worth it ???
:thumbup:
£36.9 billion is budgeted for defence for 2010/11. Far less could be spent and utilised elsewhere if we didn't have to worry about extremist threats, the reasons for which Dean has explained above. £134 million is a small price to pay if it help those less fortunate and lessens the chances of terrorist attacks in the future.
Quote by s3xyl3xy
£36.9 billion is budgeted for defence for 2010/11. Far less could be spent and utilised elsewhere if we didn't have to worry about extremist threats, the reasons for which Dean has explained above. £134 million is a small price to pay if it help those less fortunate and lessens the chances of terrorist attacks in the future.
Bollix.... the more money you throw at them, the more they will rattle the sabre to extract more pound of flesh...
Orgasminator
I dont think donating aid will ever stave off terrorism or anti western opinion. For a start the people receiving the aid would have to know where its come from. Does it have gift tags? It comes from where they're told it comes from.
Secondly anti western opinion goes a lot deeper than any amount of blankets and food parcels will ever fix.
I'm in favour of aid but not under any kind of illusion that it buys understanding from terrorists.
Secondly anti western opinion goes a lot deeper than any amount of blankets and food parcels will ever fix.
I'm in favour of aid but not under any kind of illusion that it buys understanding from terrorists.
Quote by vampanya
I dont think donating aid will ever stave off terrorism or anti western opinion. For a start the people receiving the aid would have to know where its come from. Does it have gift tags? It comes from where they're told it comes from.
Secondly anti western opinion goes a lot deeper than any amount of blankets and food parcels will ever fix.
I'm in favour of aid but not under any kind of illusion that it buys understanding from terrorists.
yes ..it does come with a gift tag !!!
All over the tents..it says....Donated by .... *****
all over the clothes it says...Donated by .... *****
all over the bags the food comes is it says....Donated by ....*****
all the aid..is very very heavily branded. This is so it can't fall into the wrong hands.. (ie: the extremists) and they then pretend its from them.
I don't think....for one minute it will stave of terrorists......but it may counter some of their propoganda.
Orgasminator
I didnt realise that.
Sex God
Quote by flower411
Do people really think governments give aid to be nice?
No .... they give aid to try to take control of the people and coerce them into a western way of thinking. They give aid so that they can thrust their christianity and democracy down other peoples throats and try to take the moral high ground as a consequence.
What they fail to take into account is that even desperate starving people are not stupid and labelling the bounty is just another way of the western governments to gloat about how rich we are in comparison !
I would argue that the whole idea of government aid actually acheives the opposite of making the recipients pro-western.
It's a good point flower makes. When seeing all this aid with country of origin emblazoned all over it, would it not possibly have the effect of embittering the recipients having it thrust in their faces at how much wealthier the western world countries are? Of course it's not enough to stop them using eating and applying that aid as it's must be almost impossible too when your belly is hurting and your shivering with cold.
However at just over £2 a head per head of population in the UK the amount is not great. I do realise that with all the worlds strife it is a bottomless pit and there must be limits set at some point.
What I do bloody object to though is these "celebrities" who raise money for these charities in far flung reaches of the globe raising it, fine all well and good, then going out flying first/business class to see how well they've done and pat themselves on the back whilst gaining the promotional benefits THAT pisses me off. Especially if, let's say, I give ten quid along with many others to their charity and find out that the first few hundred donations are paying for their trip.
Sex God
Dear God yes,When the revolution comes.....
We'll be going round and round and round
Quote by deancannock
snip...
all the aid..is very very heavily branded. This is so it can't fall into the wrong hands.. (ie: the extremists) and they then pretend its from them.
I don't think....for one minute it will stave of terrorists......but it may counter some of their propoganda.
Just how naive/gullible do people have to be?
So then, every bowl of rice handed to a starving recipient is first and foremost acknowledged as coming from ***** - perhaps every grain of rice is so stamped
And as for propaganda, assuming they can read in the first place, the leaflets are more likely to be used for practical purposes like lighting fires or insulation from the cold, assuming they haven't been dropped in the floods in the first place and are sodden through.
Quote by flower411
No .... they give aid to try to take control of the people and coerce them into a western way of thinking. They give aid so that they can thrust their christianity and democracy down other peoples throats and try to take the moral high ground as a consequence.
Is that your opinion, or have you any proof of this?
Sex God
Quote by kentswingers777
No .... they give aid to try to take control of the people and coerce them into a western way of thinking. They give aid so that they can thrust their christianity and democracy down other peoples throats and try to take the moral high ground as a consequence.
Is that your opinion, or have you any proof of this?
Doesn't need proof because its glaringly obvious, and I agree which in itself is enough :smug:
Sex God
Quote by Lost
No .... they give aid to try to take control of the people and coerce them into a western way of thinking. They give aid so that they can thrust their christianity and democracy down other peoples throats and try to take the moral high ground as a consequence.
Is that your opinion, or have you any proof of this?
Doesn't need proof because its glaringly obvious, and I agree which in itself is enough :smug:
It is not some thing that has crossed my mind before, but seams logical
