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Abu Qatada
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Quote by Lizaleanrob
i think its called double standards mids
Something all Governments in this country can definitely be accused of.
I have been reading about the case of the SAS hero who has served in both Iraq and Afghanistan, to protect this country.
Sergeant Danny Nightingale was jailed last week for 18 months, yes you heard right 18 months for 'illegally possessing a 9mm Glock pistol, which had been packed up and returned to him by colleagues after he had to leave Iraq in a hurry to help organise the funeral of two friends killed in action'.
'The gun was a gift from Iraqi soldiers he had been helping to train in 2009 and he claimed he did not remember having it'.
A war hero such as this who fought for his country and jailed by a military court and hopefully to be freed by Cameron soon, and yet we have a convicted terrorist in Abu what's his name walking our streets and we are supposed to support justice? What the fuck has happened to this country in the last 25 years?
As an aside going back to Guantanamo Bay, who the fuck goes to Pakistan for a holiday? What young Asian men travel on their own and some were even known to have gone to Afghanistan. Innocent? I have my own views on that one.
No it cannot, so before more injustice is done, kick the bastard out, or you go round to the families of the dead and maimed and tell them that the bombers were only acting upon the teachings of the muslim cleric that we protected and did so on some misguided feeling of fair play just as someone told the victims of the London Bombings which he is believed to have had a hand in.
We have NO reason to believe that this man will not be given a fair trial in his home country.
It would be an injustice for people to die as a result of what this man preaches in this country he is not a UK citizen, he is a Jordanian, if he doesn't feel he will be safe in Jordan send him somewhere he will be safe like to the Taliban in Afghanistan.
There is a reason we don't kick him out, I do not know what it is but the Government must have it's reasons, if not he would be gone long ago, someone in a high place believes it is better to keep him here, we can send people who are United Kingdom citizens to Guantanamo knowing they will be treated inhumanely and tortured but we cant send him home, I dont believe that.
And I also agree that you don't go on holiday to Pakistan for the first time in your life then pop over to Afghanistan and get arrested in the company of a large group of Taliban fighters but at least we have compensated them for thier "wrongfull" arrest.
We have NO reason to believe that this man will not be given a fair trial in his home country.
It would be an injustice for people to die as a result of what this man preaches in this country he is not a UK citizen, he is a Jordanian, if he doesn't feel he will be safe in Jordan send him somewhere he will be safe like to the Taliban in Afghanistan.
There is a reason we don't kick him out, I do not know what it is but the Government must have it's reasons, if not he would be gone long ago, someone in a high place believes it is better to keep him here, we can send people who are United Kingdom citizens to Guantanamo knowing they will be treated inhumanely and tortured but we cant send him home, I dont believe that.
And I also agree that you don't go on holiday to Pakistan for the first time in your life then pop over to Afghanistan and get arrested in the company of a large group of Taliban fighters but at least we have compensated them for thier "wrongfull" arrest.
Quote by Ben_Minx
............We have NO reason to believe that this man will not be given a fair trial in his home country..................
The judges we employ to decide these matters seem to believe that there are reasons.
I understood it was because there was no case history on which to draw
Actually I don't care if they peel his skin off and slice him into small pieces, this is what he advocates his followers to do to us.
Personally I believe that the Law Lords and Home Office are being directed to come up with these results, don't ask me why, perhaps it is a belief in keeping your enemies closer, if the USA wanted him he would be gone by now but Jordan want him and we don't care about them.
This country is all about taking care of the perpetrators and stuff the victims, a nation of wimps who allow themselves to be used and abused by the rest of the world, no wonder we are the most popular place on the planet for those wanting an easier life than they get in thier own country, a soft touch for thieves and conmen from eastern europe, the people are happy to be shafted, I guess later it will give them something to moan about and accuse the Government of not doing enough.
My last word, kick him out, sod the consequences and sod him and his rights, that is my opinion and nobody will change my mind on this one, it won't happen of course but I can still have the opinion.
Israel survive against the odds because it fights terror with terror, we always lose against the terrorists, we allow our people to be murdered are soldiers slaughtered, the IRA won, the Taliban will win, one day we will give the Falklands to Argentina it is the British way.
Personally I believe that the Law Lords and Home Office are being directed to come up with these results, don't ask me why, perhaps it is a belief in keeping your enemies closer, if the USA wanted him he would be gone by now but Jordan want him and we don't care about them.
This country is all about taking care of the perpetrators and stuff the victims, a nation of wimps who allow themselves to be used and abused by the rest of the world, no wonder we are the most popular place on the planet for those wanting an easier life than they get in thier own country, a soft touch for thieves and conmen from eastern europe, the people are happy to be shafted, I guess later it will give them something to moan about and accuse the Government of not doing enough.
My last word, kick him out, sod the consequences and sod him and his rights, that is my opinion and nobody will change my mind on this one, it won't happen of course but I can still have the opinion.
Israel survive against the odds because it fights terror with terror, we always lose against the terrorists, we allow our people to be murdered are soldiers slaughtered, the IRA won, the Taliban will win, one day we will give the Falklands to Argentina it is the British way.
Quote by MidsCouple24
Actually I don't care if they peel his skin off and slice him into small pieces, this is what he advocates his followers to do to us.
Personally I believe that the Law Lords and Home Office are being directed to come up with these results, don't ask me why, perhaps it is a belief in keeping your enemies closer, if the USA wanted him he would be gone by now but Jordan want him and we don't care about them.
This country is all about taking care of the perpetrators and stuff the victims, a nation of wimps who allow themselves to be used and abused by the rest of the world, no wonder we are the most popular place on the planet for those wanting an easier life than they get in thier own country, a soft touch for thieves and conmen from eastern europe, the people are happy to be shafted, I guess later it will give them something to moan about and accuse the Government of not doing enough.
My last word, kick him out, sod the consequences and sod him and his rights, that is my opinion and nobody will change my mind on this one, it won't happen of course but I can still have the opinion.
Israel survive against the odds because it fights terror with terror, we always lose against the terrorists, we allow our people to be murdered are soldiers slaughtered, the IRA won, the Taliban will win, one day we will give the Falklands to Argentina it is the British way.
It started to go wrong Mids with our tolerances towards these kinds of people. Remember Hamza outside the Frindsbury Park Mosque? Preaching hatred and our lovely police officers stood by and did nothing. We allowed his kind to fester here and now too late as these people have now children of their own who will grow up with their ideals and hatred. Look at the London bombers. Born here and yet hate us, you cannot fight enemies like that as it is almost impossible.
We are too tolerant to the needs of others and we then damn the rest of society in favour of these idealists. The trouble now Mids is that they are here, amongst us and ready to kill us. Where in Britain will the next atrocity be?
The whole of the East End of London is like walking into Kabul city centre. On a Friday afternoon not far from where I live, I would be scared myself to venture past a Mosque certainly the one in East Ham. As a white English man in some areas I would be terrified to walk into many areas. As the story told this week about a woman in Leicester who got lost. Tolerance is too easy a word to use but one that many do not understand.
I was only referring to this topic, but it has taken another line away from "his rights v the rights" of the population of Britain (as I said be they muslim, christian, black, white, jew or gentile)
I agree wholeheartedly that it is being taught to the children and that is one of the reasons I advocate his removal because he teaches them, he admits this, we have seen the evidence of it.
HOWEVER, I do not believe it is too late, my first street patrol in NI was in the Turf Lodge district of Belfast, we got stoned (as in people through stones not got high) I saw a boy of about 4-5 years old pick up a very small stone and attempt to throw it, it landed behind him his parents told him what a good boy he was, I laughed, but later I thought "one day it will be an AK47 in his hands". But we overcame much of that hatred, we taught many in Ireland that the bullet is not the best way and now with the ballot box and a ceasefire the aims of those same terrorists are being achieved, slowly but surely they are getting the better deal they sought, not all muslims hate us, more than 500 muslims are currently serving in the British Armed Forces, with the help of the decent muslims amongst us (the majority) our understanding and a lot of work we can undo what people who preach hatred and violence teach, the first step is to invoke our current laws re inciting racial hatred, inciting public unrest, we must have some that stop someone preaching hatred and murder, then we need to win the hearts and minds of those that have been taught to hate us. They are citizens of the United Kingdom after all.
In the street where I live it is predominantely Polish residents, there are at least 30 single guys living within a stones throw (not literally I left that scene back in NI) they often gather on the street corners drinking beer, they have a favourite spot just at the bottom of my garden on some waste ground, does it bother me, absolutely not, when I walk past they say hello, if I am with a females no matter how she is dressed they are respectfull, if only I could say the same about groups of young British males .......
I agree wholeheartedly that it is being taught to the children and that is one of the reasons I advocate his removal because he teaches them, he admits this, we have seen the evidence of it.
HOWEVER, I do not believe it is too late, my first street patrol in NI was in the Turf Lodge district of Belfast, we got stoned (as in people through stones not got high) I saw a boy of about 4-5 years old pick up a very small stone and attempt to throw it, it landed behind him his parents told him what a good boy he was, I laughed, but later I thought "one day it will be an AK47 in his hands". But we overcame much of that hatred, we taught many in Ireland that the bullet is not the best way and now with the ballot box and a ceasefire the aims of those same terrorists are being achieved, slowly but surely they are getting the better deal they sought, not all muslims hate us, more than 500 muslims are currently serving in the British Armed Forces, with the help of the decent muslims amongst us (the majority) our understanding and a lot of work we can undo what people who preach hatred and violence teach, the first step is to invoke our current laws re inciting racial hatred, inciting public unrest, we must have some that stop someone preaching hatred and murder, then we need to win the hearts and minds of those that have been taught to hate us. They are citizens of the United Kingdom after all.
In the street where I live it is predominantely Polish residents, there are at least 30 single guys living within a stones throw (not literally I left that scene back in NI) they often gather on the street corners drinking beer, they have a favourite spot just at the bottom of my garden on some waste ground, does it bother me, absolutely not, when I walk past they say hello, if I am with a females no matter how she is dressed they are respectfull, if only I could say the same about groups of young British males .......
Sex God
Quote by MidsCouple24
My last word, kick him out, sod the consequences and sod him and his rights
The sad irony Mids is that that line of thinking is even more dangerous than Abu Qatada, and you can't even begin to see why. I despair.
Quote by neilinleeds
My last word, kick him out, sod the consequences and sod him and his rights
The sad irony Mids is that that line of thinking is even more dangerous than Abu Qatada, and you can't even begin to see why. I despair.
No I don't see the danger of that, he is not British he is Jordanian, he not from an EU state, he lives here making a laughing stock of us and inciting people to murder us, I don't think he should be allowed to stay here and have said either extradite him to Jordan to face the charges there or give him the opportunity to decide where he wants to go, let him go to Afghanistan where the Taliban will welcome him, let him go to another Muslim Country of his choice, but refuse him the right to stay in this country unles he agrees and does abide by our laws.
Sexpert
Quote by MidsCouple24
I was only referring to this topic, but it has taken another line away from "his rights v the rights" of the population of Britain (as I said be they muslim, christian, black, white, jew or gentile)
I agree wholeheartedly that it is being taught to the children and that is one of the reasons I advocate his removal because he teaches them, he admits this, we have seen the evidence of it.
HOWEVER, I do not believe it is too late, my first street patrol in NI was in the Turf Lodge district of Belfast, we got stoned (as in people through stones not got high) I saw a boy of about 4-5 years old pick up a very small stone and attempt to throw it, it landed behind him his parents told him what a good boy he was, I laughed, but later I thought "one day it will be an AK47 in his hands". But we overcame much of that hatred, we taught many in Ireland that the bullet is not the best way and now with the ballot box and a ceasefire the aims of those same terrorists are being achieved, slowly but surely they are getting the better deal they sought, not all muslims hate us, more than 500 muslims are currently serving in the British Armed Forces, with the help of the decent muslims amongst us (the majority) our understanding and a lot of work we can undo what people who preach hatred and violence teach, the first step is to invoke our current laws re inciting racial hatred, inciting public unrest, we must have some that stop someone preaching hatred and murder, then we need to win the hearts and minds of those that have been taught to hate us. They are citizens of the United Kingdom after all.
In the street where I live it is predominantely Polish residents, there are at least 30 single guys living within a stones throw (not literally I left that scene back in NI) they often gather on the street corners drinking beer, they have a favourite spot just at the bottom of my garden on some waste ground, does it bother me, absolutely not, when I walk past they say hello, if I am with a females no matter how she is dressed they are respectfull, if only I could say the same about groups of young British males .......
Mids isn't this the argument for sorting this one out according to the laws. How many hearts and minds do we win if the UK arranges:
- Abu Qatada is dropped off back in Jordan (against our own laws) and say from 20,000 feet
- we put up with him until such time as the legal situation is resolved
Wasn't it very much the second sort of behaviour that took the stones, and AK47s out of the 'troubles' in NI?
Don't get me wrong I find the idea, that he, his wife and 5 children, as a foreigner having not contributed at all, is living at the tax payers expense in an £800,000 property and presumably drawing a small fortune, is utterly disgusting. Never mind preaching hatred against the people who support him, and having the temerity to sue for money.
But if we sort this one out properly just maybe some, hopefully quite a lot, of the hearts and minds will realise what a civilised society and even religion is all about?
Quote by Robert400andKay
I was only referring to this topic, but it has taken another line away from "his rights v the rights" of the population of Britain (as I said be they muslim, christian, black, white, jew or gentile)
I agree wholeheartedly that it is being taught to the children and that is one of the reasons I advocate his removal because he teaches them, he admits this, we have seen the evidence of it.
HOWEVER, I do not believe it is too late, my first street patrol in NI was in the Turf Lodge district of Belfast, we got stoned (as in people through stones not got high) I saw a boy of about 4-5 years old pick up a very small stone and attempt to throw it, it landed behind him his parents told him what a good boy he was, I laughed, but later I thought "one day it will be an AK47 in his hands". But we overcame much of that hatred, we taught many in Ireland that the bullet is not the best way and now with the ballot box and a ceasefire the aims of those same terrorists are being achieved, slowly but surely they are getting the better deal they sought, not all muslims hate us, more than 500 muslims are currently serving in the British Armed Forces, with the help of the decent muslims amongst us (the majority) our understanding and a lot of work we can undo what people who preach hatred and violence teach, the first step is to invoke our current laws re inciting racial hatred, inciting public unrest, we must have some that stop someone preaching hatred and murder, then we need to win the hearts and minds of those that have been taught to hate us. They are citizens of the United Kingdom after all.
In the street where I live it is predominantely Polish residents, there are at least 30 single guys living within a stones throw (not literally I left that scene back in NI) they often gather on the street corners drinking beer, they have a favourite spot just at the bottom of my garden on some waste ground, does it bother me, absolutely not, when I walk past they say hello, if I am with a females no matter how she is dressed they are respectfull, if only I could say the same about groups of young British males .......
Mids isn't this the argument for sorting this one out according to the laws. How many hearts and minds do we win if the UK arranges:
- Abu Qatada is dropped off back in Jordan (against our own laws) and say from 20,000 feet
- we put up with him until such time as the legal situation is resolved
Wasn't it very much the second sort of behaviour that took the stones, and AK47s out of the 'troubles' in NI?
Don't get me wrong I find the idea, that he, his wife and 5 children, as a foreigner having not contributed at all, is living at the tax payers expense in an £800,000 property and presumably drawing a small fortune, is utterly disgusting. Never mind preaching hatred against the people who support him, and having the temerity to sue for money.
But if we sort this one out properly just maybe some, hopefully quite a lot, of the hearts and minds will realise what a civilised society and even religion is all about?
It would be preferable to do it this way but I am a realist.
I never expected to see some things in my life
Peace in Northern Ireland
The ending of the Berlin Wall
This man removed from UK, it has been 10 years of trying and it has nothing to do with our laws anymore, we can change them all we want because the EU can overule anything we decide so it is not in our hands, none of our laws are valid anymore if the EU decides they are wrong or unjust. I don't understand why we can't just chuck him out of the country, other countries do it everyday, we dont have to send him to Jordan let him choose where he wants to go, we send asylum seekers back when their applications fail, we send immigrants back when they arrive here illegaly, austrailia refuses undesireables entry at the airport, the USA does the same, most countries do. he is NOT a British subject he is not from an EU state, he has no legal right to be here.
Quote by neilinleeds
My last word, kick him out, sod the consequences and sod him and his rights
The sad irony Mids is that that line of thinking is even more dangerous than Abu Qatada, and you can't even begin to see why. I despair.
Is this in the public interest Neil?
Seems not. So is this?
Seems it is.
Can you not understand why people are so angry? I may not be as strong minded as Mids on this but I can understand how this country has become a haven for these kinds of people, and then we even give them the tools to do it, as in legal aid and welfare payments.
What I think Mids is correct on is that we owe him nothing. He is not a British citizen, in fact not even a European citizen. He is apparently Jordanian, does not hold a British passport and entered here illegally on a false passport. I believe this country brings all it's bad luck about itself with inept politicians, who whilst they may well have had a fantastic education, know nothing of the man on the street in fact they care not for the man on the street.
And now, oh the irony of it all, is that OUR courts and OUR judges will no doubt award him a nice large sum of money as well. No doubt the madness of it all is that the money will no doubt be used in some way, to support other fundamentalists and killers to kill our soldiers and possibly another terrorist attack in the UK. I would not trust any politician to do the right thing and I would not let a single one of them even run my bath.
Wat I find intriguing about this is...
When where and how did this person enter the UK. Under EU legislation, an illegal immigrant should be returned to the place from which entry was made.
Now, I doubt Qatada entered the UK under a lorry from Calais but, if he entered the UK illegally from Jordan, then that is the place legally where he should be returned (except that the ECHR ruling about torture comes into play).
If however it was some other country like Spain or the Netherlands lets say, then that's where he should be returned to.
How did he arrive in the UK?
When where and how did this person enter the UK. Under EU legislation, an illegal immigrant should be returned to the place from which entry was made.
Now, I doubt Qatada entered the UK under a lorry from Calais but, if he entered the UK illegally from Jordan, then that is the place legally where he should be returned (except that the ECHR ruling about torture comes into play).
If however it was some other country like Spain or the Netherlands lets say, then that's where he should be returned to.
How did he arrive in the UK?
Quote by GnV
Wat I find intriguing about this is...
When where and how did this person enter the UK. Under EU legislation, an illegal immigrant should be returned to the place from which entry was made.
Probably form France, most are.
Quote by GnV
Now, I doubt Qatada entered the UK under a lorry from Calais but, if he entered the UK illegally from Jordan, then that is the place legally where he should be returned (except that the ECHR ruling about torture comes into play).
He is a Palestinian Muslim of Jordanian citizenship apparently. In October 2002 Abu Qatada was arrested at a council house in south London and taken to Belmarsh Prison. Here he began a long legal battle against deportation.
He was among a large group of Islamists who sought refuge in the UK during the late 1980s and 1990s as they fled from despotic Arab regimes which they were seeking to overthrow.
Quote by GnV
If however it was some other country like Spain or the Netherlands lets say, then that's where he should be returned to.
Agreed.
Quote by GnV
How did he arrive in the UK?
He came seeking asylum. Abu Qatada fled Jordan to Pakistan and then came to the UK. He was given asylum.
A few other trinkets GnV.
Refuse asylum and deport him back to Pakistan, problem solved all within UK and EU laws and morally ok cos he is not wanted for crimes by the Pakistani government.
Does Pakistan have a choice in taking him, no, they allowed him to board a plane with a false passport he should have been detected and arrested at that point, they have just had £750 million of British Aid for education so they should have learnt that lesson
Does Pakistan have a choice in taking him, no, they allowed him to board a plane with a false passport he should have been detected and arrested at that point, they have just had £750 million of British Aid for education so they should have learnt that lesson
You ever heard of the SS Struma mids?
Quote by MidsCouple24
Refuse asylum and deport him back to Pakistan, problem solved all within UK and EU laws and morally ok cos he is not wanted for crimes by the Pakistani government.
Does Pakistan have a choice in taking him, no, they allowed him to board a plane with a false passport he should have been detected and arrested at that point, they have just had £750 million of British Aid for education so they should have learnt that lesson
Quote by Ben_Minx
You ever heard of the SS Struma mids?
Refuse asylum and deport him back to Pakistan, problem solved all within UK and EU laws and morally ok cos he is not wanted for crimes by the Pakistani government.
Does Pakistan have a choice in taking him, no, they allowed him to board a plane with a false passport he should have been detected and arrested at that point, they have just had £750 million of British Aid for education so they should have learnt that lesson
What the fuck has SS Struma, Palestine and Jews got to do with this
Obliquely, there may be a point about Sir Harold MacMichael refusing entry visas to the British controlled Palestine at the time (1941/42) but the reference made by Mids was to do with Pakistan allowing Qatada out of their country on false papers, NOT the UK refusing an illegally obtained entry visa
And I don't think that Qatada is Jewish, either.
Now I know both countries begin with 'Pa' but that is about as much as you will get in similarity between the two...
Or did I miss something?
Nope cannot see the connection, he entered Britain illegaly on a false passport from Pakistan, our rules say he should be deported back there if asylum is refused, asylum cannot be given since his life is not in danger in Pakistan nor is he likely to be tortured in Pakistan, many in Pakistan will give him aid and applaud him.
I really do not think his plane will be torpedoed by a Russian Submarine on the way to Pakistan.
Could you please explain the relevance of this post ?
I really do not think his plane will be torpedoed by a Russian Submarine on the way to Pakistan.
Could you please explain the relevance of this post ?
Quote by Ben_Minx
I am trying to highlight why I think "asylum" is so important.
You see he was granted asylum in the UK because he had been tortured, way before his arrest.
This link is useful.
But knowing what we know about this man, why would we care if he had been? I mean he is not an innocent man is he? I mean is everything known about this man false Ben? Even if a tiny bit is true he does not deserve a pennies worth of compassion. Or as a tolerant country we take on board people that have murdered and tortured others, yet this man has done everything possible to avoid what he has given to others?
Oh and the link I supplied earlier in this thread, I am glad you found it useful for yourself.
Quote by MidsCouple24
Refuse asylum and deport him back to Pakistan, problem solved all within UK and EU laws and morally ok cos he is not wanted for crimes by the Pakistani government.
Mids if we deported him to Pakistan they are as corrupt as any other despot country. Are we possibly indicating that the most wanted man on this planet being Bin Laden, was on Pakistan land in the biggest house within a thousand miles of that house, and they did not know? They knew alright it would have been impossible for them not to have known, or plain fucking stupid. America virtually indicated as much, but diplomacy won the day for trade Mids.
Quote by MidsCouple24
Does Pakistan have a choice in taking him, no, they allowed him to board a plane with a false passport he should have been detected and arrested at that point, they have just had £750 million of British Aid for education so they should have learnt that lesson
If someone like him wanted to leave a country of his own free will, why the feck would anyone want to try and stop him? Fuck Mids we are trying all routes to get rid of him and Pakistan got him out for free. I wonder what the UK has that Pakistan does not? Torture? What goes around Mids as what we know about this man being such a kind old soul and all that eh? :twisted:
Quote by starlightcouple
But knowing what we know about this man, why would we care if he had been? I mean he is not an innocent man is he? I mean is everything known about this man false Ben? Even if a tiny bit is true he does not deserve a pennies worth of compassion. Or as a tolerant country we take on board people that have murdered and tortured others, yet this man has done everything possible to avoid what he has given to others?
Oh and the link I supplied earlier in this thread, I am glad you found it useful for yourself.
According to the source we both cited we didn't "know about this man" when asylum was granted, so your other questions are moot.
We only know what we are told of course, I suspect he was probably regarded as "useful" by our intelligence services at some point.
I am a great believer that we in the United Kingdom have a moral duty to provide aslyum to those that need it.
To me though there are strict criteria about why someone should need our help and their is strict criteria for our continued assistance to those we give asylum.
An asylum seeker in my humble opinion is a person who fears for their lives or may be tortured in the Country where they reside, for example if somone in Syria is in that situation and flies to the UK we should satisy ourselves that they have a valid case and if so valid give them as much assistance as we would expect a British Citizen to get in a foreign country or that we would give in this country.
If on the other hand the said asylum seeker flies to France then attempts to enter Britain they should be treated as an imigrant, someone wanting to live here but someone who will not be murdered or tortured by France, ie they are now safe from the harm that makes them an asylum seeker.
In return for asylum we HAVE to expect those people to abide by our laws, be prepared to learn our language and customs and train to be a usefull member of this community if they have no trade, accommodation might not be the best but would be better than a coffin or prison cell in the country they fear.
So in the case of Abu, he should NOT be granted asylum firstly on the grounds that Pakistan have not been accused of torturing him or attempting to kill him, he has not abided by the laws of the UK.
Send him back to Pakistan though give him the opportunity to choose a destination that will accept him and where he will feel happy ie Syria, Iran, Iraq etc.
What could be wrong with expelling a non UK non EU state citizen when he fails to meet the asylum rules and fails to abide by UK and EU laws.
If that is wrong then there is something drastically wrong with the thinking in the UK and things need to change.
To me though there are strict criteria about why someone should need our help and their is strict criteria for our continued assistance to those we give asylum.
An asylum seeker in my humble opinion is a person who fears for their lives or may be tortured in the Country where they reside, for example if somone in Syria is in that situation and flies to the UK we should satisy ourselves that they have a valid case and if so valid give them as much assistance as we would expect a British Citizen to get in a foreign country or that we would give in this country.
If on the other hand the said asylum seeker flies to France then attempts to enter Britain they should be treated as an imigrant, someone wanting to live here but someone who will not be murdered or tortured by France, ie they are now safe from the harm that makes them an asylum seeker.
In return for asylum we HAVE to expect those people to abide by our laws, be prepared to learn our language and customs and train to be a usefull member of this community if they have no trade, accommodation might not be the best but would be better than a coffin or prison cell in the country they fear.
So in the case of Abu, he should NOT be granted asylum firstly on the grounds that Pakistan have not been accused of torturing him or attempting to kill him, he has not abided by the laws of the UK.
Send him back to Pakistan though give him the opportunity to choose a destination that will accept him and where he will feel happy ie Syria, Iran, Iraq etc.
What could be wrong with expelling a non UK non EU state citizen when he fails to meet the asylum rules and fails to abide by UK and EU laws.
If that is wrong then there is something drastically wrong with the thinking in the UK and things need to change.
On this thread I have been accused of being, at the very least, passionate about this subject, leading people towards the beliefs of Nazis and Adolf Hitler and even seeking or heading for ethnic cleansing.
I am passionate about this subject, I do feel very strongly about it, I do put the qualitfy of life of my family, their safety, the safety of all the people in the UK above the needs of one man.
A man who by his own admission wants people to kill british soldiers and subjects, to plant bombs in the UK, to kill us and uprise against us.
I wonder just how much safer this man will be in the UK than he would be in Jordan, someone just may think enough is enough, I have seen protection given to people for far lesser reasons.
I am passionate about this subject, I do feel very strongly about it, I do put the qualitfy of life of my family, their safety, the safety of all the people in the UK above the needs of one man.
A man who by his own admission wants people to kill british soldiers and subjects, to plant bombs in the UK, to kill us and uprise against us.
I wonder just how much safer this man will be in the UK than he would be in Jordan, someone just may think enough is enough, I have seen protection given to people for far lesser reasons.
Mids I think that if sending him back to Jordan to stand trial is not going to happen, or the USA will not detain him indefinitely , then I would rather he stayed in the UK where we can monitor him constantly and hope that he slips up.
I would rather it costs us a million a month to keep tabs on him, if it saves another London 7/7 and the loss of life that involved. Not only the tragic loss of life but the loss felt by all the family and friends for the rest of their lives.
Sending him to Jordan would be the better option as I feel he will never see the light of day again if sent there. A bit like Hamza in the US. He will be found guilty and life there rightly means life , unlike eight years over here. Abu what's his name is dangerous, a murderer and a terrorist, and on most occasions gets others to do his dirty work as he is nothing more than a coward, but I would still rather we monitor his every single move. If he farts I want our security forces to know about it, and one day I am sure just like Bin Laden, he will meet his maker and it won't have seven virgins attached to it.
I would rather it costs us a million a month to keep tabs on him, if it saves another London 7/7 and the loss of life that involved. Not only the tragic loss of life but the loss felt by all the family and friends for the rest of their lives.
Sending him to Jordan would be the better option as I feel he will never see the light of day again if sent there. A bit like Hamza in the US. He will be found guilty and life there rightly means life , unlike eight years over here. Abu what's his name is dangerous, a murderer and a terrorist, and on most occasions gets others to do his dirty work as he is nothing more than a coward, but I would still rather we monitor his every single move. If he farts I want our security forces to know about it, and one day I am sure just like Bin Laden, he will meet his maker and it won't have seven virgins attached to it.
Ok, so in the 1990's, he fled Jordan through Pakistan and claimed he was tortured in Jordan and sought sanctuary with a 'friendly' state.
At the time, the Government of the day did not consider him a threat and granted him asylum.
On the premise that 'you should never bite the hand that feeds you' he has become a threat here. Not anecdotally, for real and on public record.
Is in not then reasonable to withdraw the 'firendly' gesture as clearly he fails to appreciate its subtleties and the 'honour' the British people have bestowed on him by providing shelter, and send him back from whence he came - Pakistan who, AFAIK have not threatened him, caused him harm, persecuted him or have shocking human rights issues (unlike the UK who have been known to torture prisoners)?
At the time, the Government of the day did not consider him a threat and granted him asylum.
On the premise that 'you should never bite the hand that feeds you' he has become a threat here. Not anecdotally, for real and on public record.
Is in not then reasonable to withdraw the 'firendly' gesture as clearly he fails to appreciate its subtleties and the 'honour' the British people have bestowed on him by providing shelter, and send him back from whence he came - Pakistan who, AFAIK have not threatened him, caused him harm, persecuted him or have shocking human rights issues (unlike the UK who have been known to torture prisoners)?
