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Abu Qatada

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Unknown User
Quote by GnV
Ok, so in the 1990's, he fled Jordan through Pakistan and claimed he was tortured in Jordan and sought sanctuary with a 'friendly' state.
At the time, the Government of the day did not consider him a threat and granted him asylum.
On the premise that 'you should never bite the hand that feeds you' he has become a threat here. Not anecdotally, for real and on public record.
Is in not then reasonable to withdraw the 'firendly' gesture as clearly he fails to appreciate its subtleties and the 'honour' the British people have bestowed on him by providing shelter, and send him back from whence he came - Pakistan who, AFAIK have not threatened him, caused him harm, persecuted him or have shocking human rights issues (unlike the UK who have been known to torture prisoners)?

How can we now do that GnV? He is now laughingly a British citizen a bit like those bombers were on the morning of 7 July 2005. Remember them with their bag packs laughing as they were heading towards London? What kinds of people are they? The same people that Abu what's his name and Hamza preached too on regular occasions.
As you have rightly said already, if and in his case it is a big if, he was being tortured in Jordan why come all the fucking way to the UK? I know the Guardian would have us believe it was for our weather but come on, we all know why and what a wise move it has turned out for him eh? As any other country would have respected Jordan's wishes and he would be now back in Jordan. As I have said before, sometimes our Governments bring everything bad about this country home to roost.
Ben_Minx
Sex God
Why cant the government just put Abu Qatada on a plane out of the UK? What would be the consequences?
Dominic answers: Because the Home Secretary would be in Contempt of Court. That would be pretty serious. UK ministers must abide by what the courts say.
GnV
Sex God
Quote by Ben_Minx
Why cant the government just put Abu Qatada on a plane out of the UK? What would be the consequences?
Dominic answers: Because the Home Secretary would be in Contempt of Court. That would be pretty serious. UK ministers must abide by what the courts say.

That might need more qualification....
The act of putting him on a plane itself would not be contempt of court, but one to Jordan almost certainly would be.
As for your assertion that UK Ministers (of State) must abide by what the Courts say, why is it that the day after Ms May made her announcement in the House last week about it being illegal for Ministers to disobey the Courts, IDS, the Work and Pensions Secretary, announced that he will be disregarding a Court ruling that ex-pat claimants of the Winter Fuel Allowance are entitled to the allowance?
What's good for the goose....
Duplicity of standards, me thinks.
Unknown User
Does denying the ECHR on the prisoners vote, also contravene European law?
GnV
Sex God
Quote by starlightcouple
Does denying the ECHR on the prisoners vote, also contravene European law?

I think it does star.
Duplicity of standards, as I say, when it suits them.
The worst that would happen is a fine imposed on the UK. They should treat it like every other State does, ignore it.
Unknown User
Quote by GnV
Does denying the ECHR on the prisoners vote, also contravene European law?

I think it does star.
Duplicity of standards, as I say, when it suits them.
The worst that would happen is a fine imposed on the UK. They should treat it like every other State does, ignore it.
Have other countries not defied the ECHR? I think even France have. Why is the British Government so limp wristed when it suits them?
I think Cameron has shown his lack of bottle as PM many times already and the voters will remember that Tory toff at the next election, and more importantly that other useless idiot that is Ms May.
Unknown User
Quote by Ben_Minx
Why cant the government just put Abu Qatada on a plane out of the UK? What would be the consequences?
Dominic answers: Because the Home Secretary would be in Contempt of Court. That would be pretty serious. UK ministers must abide by what the courts say.

Why do they ? they don't in many other instances such as fiddling expenses which according to the latest BBC documentary (with evidence) is still going on, on a large scale, they commit social misdemeanors and believe they should not be prosecuted or fined as would a common citizen, they get caught speeding and say my wife felt unwell at a dinner party so I wanted to get her home quickly (and get off without so much as a warning). They invent laws to benefit themselves and only themselves whilst breaching the human rights of others (human rights that they made law).
Unknown User
Quote by Ben_Minx
You got anything new to add mids?

Nope I will argue to out those that want to kiss us and you will argue to help them, house them and give them whatever they want.
everyone is entitled to an opinion.
GnV
Sex God
Quote by starlightcouple
Does denying the ECHR on the prisoners vote, also contravene European law?

I think it does star.
Duplicity of standards, as I say, when it suits them.
The worst that would happen is a fine imposed on the UK. They should treat it like every other State does, ignore it.
Have other countries not defied the ECHR? I think even France have. Why is the British Government so limp wristed when it suits them?
I think Cameron has shown his lack of bottle as PM many times already and the voters will remember that Tory toff at the next election, and more importantly that other useless idiot that is Ms May.
I think the last time France defied 'opinion' - because, at the time, that's all it was - over the expelling of the Roma. There were many threats made by the Commission to Nicolas Sarkozy and his Government but, in the end, the threats were all puff and nothing happened. Indeed, the new President Francois Hollande, has done similar (but more quietly than his bullish predecessor).
There was a lot of coughing and spluttering but in the end nothing happened to anyone in Government.
And it won't.
The ECHR is staffed with people even more limp-wristed than Cameron.
Whereas Maggie (reportedly) used the Gentleman's cloakroom below stairs at the Palace of Westminster, Cameron probably uses the Ladies...
GnV
Sex God
Quote by MidsCouple24
You got anything new to add mids?

Nope I will argue to out those that want to kiss us and you will argue to help them, house them and give them whatever they want.
everyone is entitled to an opinion.
I presume you mean kill Jed.
He has form. The Roma were killing innocent people and Police on the streets of Grenoble and dear Ben was besides himself with grief that they were being expelled.
Ben_Minx
Sex God
Quote by MidsCouple24
You got anything new to add mids?

Nope I will argue to out those that want to kill us and you will argue to help them, house them and give them whatever they want.
everyone is entitled to an opinion.
I haven't argued anything of the sort have I?
neilinleeds
Sex God
Come on now GnV. I won't try to speak for Ben, he can do that for himself, but for me my position is not informed by any great sympathy for the man or a feeling that we should always wear the very softest of kid gloves to deal with him and his ilk. It's not him I'm championing. I stand for the rule of law. If the rule of law sometimes presents us with consequences that are hard to stomach then the law perhaps needs looking at and changing, but not ignoring altogether to make life easy, which is Mids position.
Mids believes that this man is so odious we should allow the law to look the other way while we bundle him out the country in a way deemed unlawful by the courts. No. I wouldn't have the law temporarily suspended for the sake of convenience for anyone. Soon as you start deciding the law only applies to some and not to others may as well chuck the law out the window altogether cos where do you stop?
GnV
Sex God
Quote by neilinleeds
Come on now GnV. I won't try to speak for Ben, he can do that for himself, but for me my position is not informed by any great sympathy for the man or a feeling that we should always wear the very softest of kid gloves to deal with him and his ilk. It's not him I'm championing. I stand for the rule of law. If the rule of law sometimes presents us with consequences that are hard to stomach then the law perhaps needs looking at and changing, but not ignoring altogether to make life easy, which is Mids position.
Mids believes that this man is so odious we should allow the law to look the other way while we bundle him out the country in a way deemed unlawful by the courts. No. I wouldn't have the law temporarily suspended for the sake of convenience for anyone. Soon as you start deciding the law only applies to some and not to others may as well chuck the law out the window altogether cos where do you stop?

I see where you are coming from neil but, and it is a very big but, the UK Government are already being 'selective' about what law they choose to abide by.
As for changing European Law, it is the Commission who decides this law and there are NO elected representatives that the electorate of Europe can call to task, only faceless very well paid functionaries who are as corrupt as hell.
So much for democracy in the United States of Europe.
GnV
Sex God
Quote by Ben_Minx
You got anything new to add mids?

Nope I will argue to out those that want to kill us and you will argue to help them, house them and give them whatever they want.
everyone is entitled to an opinion.
I haven't argued anything of the sort have I?
Maybe not (reviewing the thread quickly) but you haven't exactly been supportive of the view that more should be done to expel him.
Unknown User
Quote by neilinleeds
Come on now GnV. I won't try to speak for Ben, he can do that for himself, but for me my position is not informed by any great sympathy for the man or a feeling that we should always wear the very softest of kid gloves to deal with him and his ilk. It's not him I'm championing. I stand for the rule of law. If the rule of law sometimes presents us with consequences that are hard to stomach then the law perhaps needs looking at and changing, but not ignoring altogether to make life easy, which is Mids position.
Mids believes that this man is so odious we should allow the law to look the other way while we bundle him out the country in a way deemed unlawful by the courts. No. I wouldn't have the law temporarily suspended for the sake of convenience for anyone. Soon as you start deciding the law only applies to some and not to others may as well chuck the law out the window altogether cos where do you stop?

Well not quite, odious yes, but I don't see how we would be breaking the law to kick him out of the country, the courts have ruled over extradition not wether or not we should allow him to remain here so sending him to Pakistan where he arrived from is not breaking any of the verdicts that have been passed.
GnV
Sex God
Quote by neilinleeds
Come on now GnV. I won't try to speak for Ben, he can do that for himself, but for me my position is not informed by any great sympathy for the man or a feeling that we should always wear the very softest of kid gloves to deal with him and his ilk. It's not him I'm championing. I stand for the rule of law. If the rule of law sometimes presents us with consequences that are hard to stomach then the law perhaps needs looking at and changing, but not ignoring altogether to make life easy, which is Mids position.
Mids believes that this man is so odious we should allow the law to look the other way while we bundle him out the country in a way deemed unlawful by the courts. No. I wouldn't have the law temporarily suspended for the sake of convenience for anyone. Soon as you start deciding the law only applies to some and not to others may as well chuck the law out the window altogether cos where do you stop?

When you disregard the bail conditions imposed by a lenient State, don't you also forfeit the right to continue to be 'at large' and to be treated other than with contempt?
Time to go Mr Qatada, your flight is waiting.
Unknown User
Quote by neilinleeds
Come on now GnV. I won't try to speak for Ben, he can do that for himself, but for me my position is not informed by any great sympathy for the man or a feeling that we should always wear the very softest of kid gloves to deal with him and his ilk. It's not him I'm championing. I stand for the rule of law. If the rule of law sometimes presents us with consequences that are hard to stomach then the law perhaps needs looking at and changing, but not ignoring altogether to make life easy, which is Mids position.
Mids believes that this man is so odious we should allow the law to look the other way while we bundle him out the country in a way deemed unlawful by the courts. No. I wouldn't have the law temporarily suspended for the sake of convenience for anyone. Soon as you start deciding the law only applies to some and not to others may as well chuck the law out the window altogether cos where do you stop?

Quote by GnV
When you disregard the bail conditions imposed by a lenient State, don't you also forfeit the right to continue to be 'at large' and to be treated other than with contempt?
Time to go Mr Qatada, your flight is waiting.

As much as I detest saying it GnV Neil is correct in what he says. But whilst this country remains in the undemocratic state of the European Union, we have our hands tied by the laws of Europe.
This is one of many reasons why I will be voting UKIP as they are the only party dedicated to get us out of this ridiculous situation we now find ourselves in. We as a country who have an elected Parliament should have the God given right to deport a person to another country to stand trial, as long as conditions have been met that they will be treated properly, and be given a fair trial. Jordon have met every single condition laid down by the UK and Europe and still he is allowed to hide behind laws made outside of this country.
If we were not a part of Europe this Government could have deported him under UK laws and not been answerable to anyone else for our actions, but as it stands in this country and the Human rights laws that we stupidly signed up to, our hand's are tied. No matter what this Government try to do, or whatever our Home Secretary tries, our laws are worthless whilst we remain in the grip of an unelected European dictatorship.
If anyone wants this to stop happening and for this country to be able to decide and choose it's own destiny then I would suggest not voting for any of the 3 main parties who have got us into this appalling mess, but vote UKIP, the only party dedicated to get us out of Europe without a referendum on the promise of only IF Cameron gets back in.
The law is the law as Neil has said, and the only way to change this is for the UK to walk away from Europe's madness. His flight may well be waiting GnV, but he ain't getting on it that's for sure. In the papers today that smirk on his face tells the whole story and he knows it. They will have no option but to release him and he once again will go back to his benefit paid house, and his family will enjoy all the benefits that are now not being afforded to British people under the welfare I as a white British male were to go the job centre and ask for the same benefits him and his brood were currently getting, they would sure as hell want me back into work, but it seems for this man working is certainly not part of any benefit deal he has. It does really want to make me vomit. The UK is fast becoming the cesspit of Europe and to see this great country being turned into what it has become is nothing short of a National scandal.
GnV
Sex God
Quote by star
and to see this great country being turned into what it has become is nothing short of a National scandal.

And that nice Mr Farage and his ugly mate 'fingers' Hamilton are gong to change that.....
Don't hold your breath star, you're in for the long haul mate :lol2:
Unknown User
Quote by GnV
and to see this great country being turned into what it has become is nothing short of a National scandal.

And that nice Mr Farage and his ugly mate 'fingers' Hamilton are gong to change that.....
Don't hold your breath star, you're in for the long haul mate :lol2:
You ever heard the saying ' a change is as good as a rest ' by any chance GnV??
You really believe Tweedle Dee and Tweedle dum currently in coalition? As Georgie Galloway would describe the three main parties are the three cheeks of the same backside. lol
VoyeurJ
Sexlightened
The laws an ass .. Any immigrant convicted of terrorism should be sent back to their country or made a martyr .. Gone mad with political correctness bollox so far the Home Secretary can't even get rid of him. Human rights bill ... Soft judges and labours open the gates to all nonsense has made this possible. Two weeks rendition in Egypt for legal torture then back to Jordan to face justice i say. We try to extradite someone autistic who hacked into some us agency's within a month. Makes no sense to me. Bet his bill for legal is massive too. So we pay for legal aid then can't throw him out ...
Rant over phew ... Can't we just make him disappear like the good old days. The euro court would never know and less new terrorists too.
J
Unknown User
Quote by VoyeurJ
Can't we just make him disappear like the good old days. The euro court would never know and less new terrorists too.
J

Give me the gun. :-x
VoyeurJ
Sexlightened
Shhhhhh stars or the euro mob will rumble you. New career as a hitman eh. Superb fella.
J
Unknown User
Quote by VoyeurJ
Shhhhhh stars or the euro mob will rumble you. New career as a hitman eh. Superb fella.
J

I think the Euro mob already have Voyeur............Am I bovvered though?? Is this face bovvered?? :rascal:
neilinleeds
Sex God
Quote by VoyeurJ
Two weeks rendition in Egypt for legal torture then back to Jordan to face justice i say. J

Yes, because the best way to deal with those who would like us to be more like some of the most repressive regimes in the world is to lower ourselves to those regimes' standards. It saves the Qatada's of this world a job, we'll get rid of them that way, by making them redundant. rolleyes
VoyeurJ
Sexlightened
Quote by neilinleeds
Two weeks rendition in Egypt for legal torture then back to Jordan to face justice i say. J

Yes, because the best way to deal with those who would like us to be more like some of the most repressive regimes in the world is to lower ourselves to those regimes' standards. It saves the Qatada's of this world a job, we'll get rid of them that way, by making them redundant. rolleyes
It's the dirty work and the covert work that keeps us mostly safe at home. Wouldn't it be a far safer world if we did quietly her rid of them. I'd be pretty happy with that. Make the world a far simpler and safer place too. We do bad things to bad people. If you don't believe that happens right now, your naive.
Unknown User
Quote by neilinleeds
Two weeks rendition in Egypt for legal torture then back to Jordan to face justice i say. J

Yes, because the best way to deal with those who would like us to be more like some of the most repressive regimes in the world is to lower ourselves to those regimes' standards. It saves the Qatada's of this world a job, we'll get rid of them that way, by making them redundant. rolleyes
No Neil....the best way is to allow Europe to dictate to us, and then leave us with no choice but to release a man that let's be honest here, we all know he is a hate preacher and a terrorist.
In the case of Quatada if there is no evidence to convict him, I would at least let Jordon have a go, cripes it is not like the guy is a British citizen. Would anyone really give a jot if we sent him packing against the rules of Europe?
Unknown User
See if I had my way I would take European Officials/organisation who have made us keep him to court (european court of course) they have taken away our freedom to remove a person who is a self confessed racist, preacher of hate, incsiter of people to commit murder. These things are illegal in most EU Countries yet we are forced to endure it. They must be breaking their own laws of freedom and are assisting him to break EU laws.
Truth is if I had my way I would have him assist the British Army in it's training schedule, ok perhaps only as a snipers target but hey lol at least for once he would be making a contribution to the Country that pays his keep.
And do I care what others think at my support for assasination, not in the slightest, I would kill a rabid dog, I would shoot a diseased cow, A human being that incites people to kill British subjects and British soldiers is a fair target to me, in order to protect those that I respect, better to kick him out but if we are not allowed to do that do whatever is necessary, I only preach what he preaches, would we have assasinated others had we had hindsight ? Fred West, Adolf Hitler, Josef Stalin, Pohl Pott, Idi Amin, Myra Hindley, we used to kill them after the event quite legally, this is an after the event situation, he has proved himself guilty.
Unknown User
Quote by MidsCouple24
See if I had my way I would take European Officials/organisation who have made us keep him to court (european court of course) they have taken away our freedom to remove a person who is a self confessed racist, preacher of hate, incsiter of people to commit murder. These things are illegal in most EU Countries yet we are forced to endure it. They must be breaking their own laws of freedom and are assisting him to break EU laws.
Truth is if I had my way I would have him assist the British Army in it's training schedule, ok perhaps only as a snipers target but hey lol at least for once he would be making a contribution to the Country that pays his keep.
And do I care what others think at my support for assasination, not in the slightest, I would kill a rabid dog, I would shoot a diseased cow, A human being that incites people to kill British subjects and British soldiers is a fair target to me, in order to protect those that I respect, better to kick him out but if we are not allowed to do that do whatever is necessary, I only preach what he preaches, would we have assasinated others had we had hindsight ? Fred West, Adolf Hitler, Josef Stalin, Pohl Pott, Idi Amin, Myra Hindley, we used to kill them after the event quite legally, this is an after the event situation, he has proved himself guilty.

I am sure Mids that GnV will know, but France have deported known terrorists as far as I remember, even though they are also a major player in the European Union that we belong too as well.
Unknown User
Which is perfectly true Mids.
Unknown User
Quote by starlightcouple
Which is perfectly true Mids.

France don't have to abide by EU rules under the laws of 1744, these are the rules of cricket and we all know that only the British has to strictly abide by them.
We have to "do the right thing" though these rules only apply when dealing with foreign nations or foreigners.
How Countries like the USA and Australia must laugh at our immigration laws
How Israel must laugh at our failure to hit back at those that do us harm.
How Terrorist Muslims must laugh at our fear of the race laws allowing anyone to say what they want about us and our religion whilst never daring to say anything derogatory about others for fear of prosecution and imprisonment.
I have asked this before and I ask it again - what will the world and the EU do if we kick him out ?