Perhaps just once, the EU should remember that without the stance of the United Kingdom there would be NO europe let alone a european community.
cou
Britain stood alone just long enough for other Nations to survive, true many of them Poles, Canadians, French, Dutch, Belgian, Norwegian, American, Indian and a host of other Nations came to help us, but if Britain had surrendered along with the rest of them there would have been no place for the rest to stand.
Germany would have had only one front brought about with the invasion of Russia, the resources used to keep the British at bay would have given Germany the early win that they needed in their Russian campaign, The US would have had enough on their plate with Japan, the only reason they fought the Germans was because they were supplying the Japanese with military equipment and knowledge.
The US was too far from europe to fight the Germans effectively without the British Isles as a base.
We could not have defeated the German Military machine alone but without our resiliance and stand the rest of Europe could not have hoped to counter attack.
Sometimes you have to make a stand to survive.
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Quote by MidsCouple24
How Countries like the USA and Australia must laugh at our immigration laws
Can you imagine an Australian Government allowing the same levels of immigration that we have endured over the last 15 years Mids? I remember a boat load of people not being allowed into Australia in 2001 which I think the boat was called Tampa, which was carrying 438 rescued refugees . Australia just said bollocks to everyone who critisised their stance at that time.
Quote by MidsCouple24
How Israel must laugh at our failure to hit back at those that do us harm.
We do hit back at those that try and do us harm Mids, but we do it through the courts and our laws that our elected Governments made. Israel are not answerable to anyone except themselves and watch what happens when they launch their attack on Iran. Yes Mids I agree that Israel have some big balls, and Ms May has none.
Quote by MidsCouple24
Perhaps just once, the EU should remember that without the stance of the United Kingdom there would be NO europe let alone a european community.
cou
Britain stood alone just long enough for other Nations to survive, true many of them Poles, Canadians, French, Dutch, Belgian, Norwegian, American, Indian and a host of other Nations came to help us, but if Britain had surrendered along with the rest of them there would have been no place for the rest to stand.
Germany would have had only one front brought about with the invasion of Russia, the resources used to keep the British at bay would have given Germany the early win that they needed in their Russian campaign, The US would have had enough on their plate with Japan, the only reason they fought the Germans was because they were supplying the Japanese with military equipment and knowledge.
The US was too far from Europe to fight the Germans effectively without the British Isles as a base.
We could not have defeated the German Military machine alone but without our resiliance and stand the rest of Europe could not have hoped to counter attack.
Sometimes you have to make a stand to survive.
Schhhh Mids.........people do not like to be reminded of that fact. Remember that France fell to the Germans in about 6 weeks. People use the excuse that it was so long ago that it matters not. But you are correct Mids that if Hitler was a tad cleverer and England folded, then yes there would be no Europe as we now know it. It would be a Federal State of Europe run and controlled by Germany, with a German leader at the helm.
Luckily enough Mids the Brits are made of much sterner stuff, the country pulled together in times of great hardship against a Dictator of such power and menace. That is why this country is GREAT Britain Mids. But schhhhhhhh lets keep that to oursekves as there are plenty out there who think this country and it's people are nothing but scroungers and nobody's.
Quote by star
but we do it through the courts and our laws that our elected Governments made
Quote by before which, star
the best way is to allow Europe to dictate to us
Quote by and before that, star
But whilst this country remains in the undemocratic state of the European Union, we have our hands tied by the laws of Europe.
Which is it to be star?
Through our laws or through the undemocratic European Dictatorship?
Quote by GnV
but we do it through the courts and our laws that our elected Governments made
Quote by before which, star
the best way is to allow Europe to dictate to us
Quote by and before that, star
But whilst this country remains in the undemocratic state of the European Union, we have our hands tied by the laws of Europe.
Which is it to be star?
Through our laws or through the undemocratic European Dictatorship?
GnV if only it were that simple.
I would love for our courts to be able to make the decisions that are right and proper for the UK, but we all know that the UK has been signed up to the European Union of which not a single person in this country voted for. The people of this fine country voted in the 70's for a deal to be able to trade with Europe, but nothing else as far as I know.
Now it seems that our elected Governments and our Judiciary are now being dictated to by an unelected force in Brussels. I wish we could deport known terrorists away from the UK, I wish we did not have to see the likes of Quatada laughing at us as Europe allows him to walk free, I would love the courts in the UK to be able to act on our laws without interference, but we know that our elected Governments signed away those rights from the UK.
You are fully aware GnV of my stance here. That is one of many reasons I will be voting UKIP in 2015. To get out of Europe so the UK can do what is best for the UK, to stop immigration and hopefully by then this Government with Ms May, to spearhead our removal from the ECHR's to which too many criminals have used to their advantage.
Oh and the highlighted bit has been taken way out of context as you well know. Nothing to do in France today matey?
Quote by star
Nothing to do in France today matey?
Plenty to do today thanks, but just came up for air and a bit of entertainment and your confused postings needed a bit of airing so I thought I might just oblige.
Still none the wiser though. England either makes its own laws and sticks two fingers up to Europe or it complies with EU directives. You seem to think that both occur, given my quotes of what you had written (for once) in the same thread.
So, I just thought I would seek clarification from an Englishman at home shivering in unseasonal cold whilst enjoying the benefits of my £200 winter fuel allowance in the sunny Charante
Quote by star
Nothing to do in France today matey?
Quote by GnV
Plenty to do today thanks, but just came up for air and a bit of entertainment and your confused postings needed a bit of airing so I thought I might just oblige.
Nothing confusing at all. Your either bored or stupid. I would have thought bored GnV as I don't have you down as stupid.
Quote by GnV
Still none the wiser though.
Stupid it is then.
Quote by GnV
England either makes its own laws and sticks two fingers up to Europe or it complies with EU directives. You seem to think that both occur, given my quotes of what you had written (for once) in the same thread.
No it makes it's own laws through our elected Parliament but then Europe wants to keep sticking their oars in, and quotes human rights bollocks. Now Ms May is saying she is going to scrap it which seems like a jolly good idea.
Quote by GnV
So, I just thought I would seek clarification from an Englishman at home shivering in unseasonal cold whilst enjoying the benefits of my £200 winter fuel allowance in the sunny Charante
GnV.........I have no problem whatsoever with you enjoying your £200 winter payment as you have earned that right through your taxes of many years of hard work. What I would be annoyed about is an elderly Romanian coming here and never contributed fuck all to our system, and would be allowed the same as you under European directives. Does France or Spain have winter fuel payments do you know? I bet it is the only mad English that afford that luxury, but at least it should go to our pensioners.
Also it can be as sunny as you like in charante, it's still France and I would rather be in freezing cold England, thanks very much. :flipa:
No GnV we were not invaded by anyone as the English Channel saw to that. We was at war of course with Germany and whilst GnV we cannot say what it would be like now had we of lost the war, what I think most rational people would agree with is that it we would not have the same freedoms that we are afforded across Europe now.
What we do know is the extermination of the Jews and homosexuals would have continued and if anything increased right throughout Europe. The Germans would have remained on course to perfect the perfect German in any fashion it felt right had they of won the war. Without a doubt millions more people would have perished. Polish and Russians in their millions would have been exterminated, concentration camps would have been set up throughout Europe if Germany were allowed to continued unabated.
Nothing in life is certain GnV but some things do not take a great deal of working out. Europe could now well be known as the Federal Republic of Germany.
What we do know is the extermination of the Jews and homosexuals would have continued and if anything increased right throughout Europe. The Germans would have remained on course to perfect the perfect German in any fashion it felt right had they of won the war. Without a doubt millions more people would have perished. Polish and Russians in their millions would have been exterminated, concentration camps would have been set up throughout Europe if Germany were allowed to continued unabated.
Nothing in life is certain GnV but some things do not take a great deal of working out. Europe could now well be known as the Federal Republic of Germany.
Well thanks and I do believe what I said, but I also believe France made the right decision to capitulate, Blitzkreig was a brilliant tactic, Germany vision in the use of the newly available modern machinery was inspiring, France could not have stood up to them the way the British could, armoured brigades don't do so well in the English Channel, Belgium, Holland same situation.
The Germans could not use Blitzkreig tactics against our island, as we all know, first they had to have air superiority and although they could have achieved this the swtich to bombing London instead of taking out our air defence capabilities prevented them doing so and gave the RAF the chance to hit them hard and build up the numbers and bomber force they needed to hit back.
Hitler believing we were beaten, that we would soon peace terms and not really being interested in occupying the United Kingdom at that time turned his attention to Russia to get control of the vital oil and other resources he needed.
If France had fought on France would have been destroyed but more importantly hundreds of thousands would have died fighting a losing battle.
I just wish our own Government and Military planners had not put the BEF in France so that we didn't lose hundreds of thousands of men and much needed equipment going down with them.
But it still remains that with or without a choice of surrender, France and the rest of Europe only exist today because we were in a geographical position and the bad desicions by Goering and Hitler that allowed us to resist the onslaught long enough to put ourselves in a position from which we could attack the enemy. That and the British mentality that doesn't accept defeat, from the man on the street through our armed forces to the King of England, an attitude that always prevailed and does today.
The Germans could not use Blitzkreig tactics against our island, as we all know, first they had to have air superiority and although they could have achieved this the swtich to bombing London instead of taking out our air defence capabilities prevented them doing so and gave the RAF the chance to hit them hard and build up the numbers and bomber force they needed to hit back.
Hitler believing we were beaten, that we would soon peace terms and not really being interested in occupying the United Kingdom at that time turned his attention to Russia to get control of the vital oil and other resources he needed.
If France had fought on France would have been destroyed but more importantly hundreds of thousands would have died fighting a losing battle.
I just wish our own Government and Military planners had not put the BEF in France so that we didn't lose hundreds of thousands of men and much needed equipment going down with them.
But it still remains that with or without a choice of surrender, France and the rest of Europe only exist today because we were in a geographical position and the bad desicions by Goering and Hitler that allowed us to resist the onslaught long enough to put ourselves in a position from which we could attack the enemy. That and the British mentality that doesn't accept defeat, from the man on the street through our armed forces to the King of England, an attitude that always prevailed and does today.
Quote by MidsCouple24
But it still remains that with or without a choice of surrender, France and the rest of Europe only exist today because we were in a geographical position and the bad desicions by Goering and Hitler that allowed us to resist the onslaught long enough to put ourselves in a position from which we could attack the enemy. That and the British mentality that doesn't accept defeat, from the man on the street through our armed forces to the King of England, an attitude that always prevailed and does today.
Not correct entirely Mids. We held the Germans off as they thought marching into Russia would be a doddle, but they never realised they would be there with virtually summer clothing in the depths of a Russian winter.
But what won us the war was Americas intervention and the money it borrowed to us. I do not think that Britain alone would have defeated the Germans. Britain was on it's knees and only the arrival of the Yanks ended the war when it did. Without them the war could have gone on for another 4 years and we could have still lost at that point. So Europe owes this country a great deal, and we all owe America a debt of gratitude even though we were in debt to them for half a century.
Quote by star
No GnV we were not invaded by anyone
I didn't say we were.. It was flower what did it
Blimey, it's bad enough being castigated for my own apparent sins, let alone flower's as well :sad:
You really must get down to see specsavers star...
I think they do special offers for afflicted Londoners :lol2:
Quote by GnV
No GnV we were not invaded by anyone
I didn't say we were.. It was flower what did it
Blimey, it's bad enough being castigated for my own apparent sins, let alone flower's as well :sad:
You really must get down to see specsavers star...
I think they do special offers for afflicted Londoners :lol2:
No GnV ( I have made a promise never to answer a post by that honourable member )
Quote by starlightcouple
No GnV we were not invaded by anyone
I didn't say we were.. It was flower what did it
Blimey, it's bad enough being castigated for my own apparent sins, let alone flower's as well :sad:
You really must get down to see specsavers star...
I think they do special offers for afflicted Londoners :lol2:
No GnV ( I have made a promise never to answer a post by that honourable member )
I see, so I get blamed instead.
Can't think which you hate most; the French or flower...
Quote by GnV
No GnV we were not invaded by anyone
I didn't say we were.. It was flower what did it
Blimey, it's bad enough being castigated for my own apparent sins, let alone flower's as well :sad:
You really must get down to see specsavers star...
I think they do special offers for afflicted Londoners :lol2:
No GnV ( I have made a promise never to answer a post by that honourable member )
I see, so I get blamed instead.
Can't think which you hate most; the French or flower...
Don't hate anyone or anything as that is not in my nature. But dislike immensely is.... :wink:
Quote by starlightcouple
But it still remains that with or without a choice of surrender, France and the rest of Europe only exist today because we were in a geographical position and the bad desicions by Goering and Hitler that allowed us to resist the onslaught long enough to put ourselves in a position from which we could attack the enemy. That and the British mentality that doesn't accept defeat, from the man on the street through our armed forces to the King of England, an attitude that always prevailed and does today.
Not correct entirely Mids. We held the Germans off as they thought marching into Russia would be a doddle, but they never realised they would be there with virtually summer clothing in the depths of a Russian winter.
But what won us the war was Americas intervention and the money it borrowed to us. I do not think that Britain alone would have defeated the Germans. Britain was on it's knees and only the arrival of the Yanks ended the war when it did. Without them the war could have gone on for another 4 years and we could have still lost at that point. So Europe owes this country a great deal, and we all owe America a debt of gratitude even though we were in debt to them for half a century.
Please read what I said earlier than this post, I stated exactly what you just said, that without the US lend/lease scheme which allowed us to buy now and pay later for the military equipment they sent us, without the french, polish, canadian, US, and more pilots in the Battle of Britain, without the Indian Regiments, Australians, Polish Brigade, French Battalion, Ghurkas, Canadians, Dutch Resistance, Maltese, Scicilians, French Resistance, Chindits, Scandanavians and more we could not possibly have defeated the Germans, but without Britain they couldnt have done it either not even the Americans could have fought on the two fronts (Japan and Europe including Africa) without the base here in Britain to fight from.
The Russian campaign was a failure for two reasons, firstly Operation Barbarossa was delayed in it's inception because the German army was delayed by Britain, Hitler had wanted it finished before the Winter but too many resources were being deployed against Britian which he had expected to have taken or surrendered much sooner and secondly Hitlers insistance on the total anihalation of Stalingrad cost too much time the Germans simply didn't have, the delays there allowed Russia to utilise the provisions sent via the artic convoys from Scapa Flow giving the the Russians the breathing gap they needed to fall back, re-group, re-arm and prepare a counter offensive. Russia would not exist today had it not been for the actual assistance given by the UK and the time assistance given to them unitentionally.
That said, Russia did suffer an estimated 1.5 to 2 million Military and Civilian casualties in Stalingrad alone but the Germans lost an estimated half a million of their most experienced troops.
The Channel Islands, yes.
And, just for star's benefit in case his reading glasses still need replacement... An extract
"British troops were pulled out of the islands, which were given an open town status."
So then star, not only the French capitulated but, it seems, good old blighty abandoned one of its most important protectorates to the Germans.
And, just for star's benefit in case his reading glasses still need replacement... An extract
"British troops were pulled out of the islands, which were given an open town status."
So then star, not only the French capitulated but, it seems, good old blighty abandoned one of its most important protectorates to the Germans.
If we didnt get the code machine and book from the U boat and know what they were upto we were cooked
If we didnt get radar first and before the battle of britain which was the precursor for the invasion as Hitler wanted Air Superiority first .. MR Goering massive fail thankfully.
We still rely on US foreign policy now. They still use the land we gave them for kit now. So a few lucky breaks i think or we would have been rolled over quicker than the French ran away.
How did Abu Qatada turn here into WW2 and the attempted invasion then. Even for here thats one major tangent surely lol
Like the posts in here earlier though, if we had made Hitler go away after the 1st world war quietly. No WW2 or holocaust and Guernsey wouldnt have been invaded after a tactical retreat to lull the enemy into the trap lol .. We never retreat or pull out in battle .. its just not British to do.
But a good example for the tree hugging human right among us here. Take out one man quietly to save jeeeez no idea how many both forces and civilians during the 2nd WW. How could you not accept that every time. For the greater good .. and Queen and country.
J
If we didnt get radar first and before the battle of britain which was the precursor for the invasion as Hitler wanted Air Superiority first .. MR Goering massive fail thankfully.
We still rely on US foreign policy now. They still use the land we gave them for kit now. So a few lucky breaks i think or we would have been rolled over quicker than the French ran away.
How did Abu Qatada turn here into WW2 and the attempted invasion then. Even for here thats one major tangent surely lol
Like the posts in here earlier though, if we had made Hitler go away after the 1st world war quietly. No WW2 or holocaust and Guernsey wouldnt have been invaded after a tactical retreat to lull the enemy into the trap lol .. We never retreat or pull out in battle .. its just not British to do.
But a good example for the tree hugging human right among us here. Take out one man quietly to save jeeeez no idea how many both forces and civilians during the 2nd WW. How could you not accept that every time. For the greater good .. and Queen and country.
J
Last WWII post on here for me and I am going to open a thread on WWII because I think for many it is a very interesting subject to discuss but it is wrong to hijack this thread with it.
So, Jersey and the Channel Islands, we do retreat, we did it right through Burma and to Dunkirk in France and other areas of the far east we did it many times in Africa, we retreated, regrouped attacked again, sometime forced back again and attacked again, each time we took what had been take from us, the enemy could not be stopped and we retreated.
The Channel Islands were a strategic withdrawal in that we decided the could not be defended at an appropriate human cost, we offered to evacuate every single inhabitant and not surprisingly most stayed though some did leave. Unlike in retreat not a single shot had been fired at us in the Channel Islands before we left them.
If we had not got the enigma machine ?
If we had not done this or that ?
If the Germans had not made catastrophic mistakes ?
All irrelevant, history is full of if's n buts, if Hitlers German enemies had succeeded in their assasination of him (what was it 11 attempts) ?
If they hadn't switched bombing airfields and gone for London ?
If the French had installed maginot line to guard against an attack through Belgium (the Germans had already used that tactic in WWI ?
So, Jersey and the Channel Islands, we do retreat, we did it right through Burma and to Dunkirk in France and other areas of the far east we did it many times in Africa, we retreated, regrouped attacked again, sometime forced back again and attacked again, each time we took what had been take from us, the enemy could not be stopped and we retreated.
The Channel Islands were a strategic withdrawal in that we decided the could not be defended at an appropriate human cost, we offered to evacuate every single inhabitant and not surprisingly most stayed though some did leave. Unlike in retreat not a single shot had been fired at us in the Channel Islands before we left them.
If we had not got the enigma machine ?
If we had not done this or that ?
If the Germans had not made catastrophic mistakes ?
All irrelevant, history is full of if's n buts, if Hitlers German enemies had succeeded in their assasination of him (what was it 11 attempts) ?
If they hadn't switched bombing airfields and gone for London ?
If the French had installed maginot line to guard against an attack through Belgium (the Germans had already used that tactic in WWI ?
Quote by GnV
"British troops were pulled out of the islands, which were given an open town status."
So then star, not only the French capitulated but, it seems, good old blighty abandoned one of its most important protectorates to the Germans.
Well it goes to show how fantastic our armed forces were then GnV, as the Channel Islands spent almost all of the war years under Nazi control. How brilliant then that they were so close to these shores, but never managed to get a single foot soldier on it. Unlike of course your ever so wonderful France who surrendered in 1940 so early into the war as well, and France surrendered in six bloody weeks. Some said they gave up with nothing more than a whimper, nothing has changed much over the years.
Thankfully this great country eventually freed France and it's citizens from the Nazi's and they should be forever grateful instead of doing their usual sniveling towards the British.
Pity they never tried this in 1940 eh ?
:rotflmao: Quote by GnV
Aye star, the Brits may have kept the Germans out, but they sure as hell can't seem to keep anyone else out, as you have already said.
Yes GnV as we have turned into a lefty Liberal society where people are scared of their own shadows now. We was I presume talking about an age where Britain was great, and we did not have to keep any other people out GnV as we did not have the benefit culture we have now.
Back in 1939-1945 Britain had rationing and things were flipping hard. People had very little and if you had to rely on welfare you really was in a bad way. But today brings about housing and free NHS treatment and loads of wonga if you go down to your nice Social security office, regardless of whether you live here or have just stepped off the boat from Nigeria with your family of 60.
Quote by GnV
And, as you also said, the french seem to be better at deporting those who disrespect France
Yes they do seem to, pity they did not show the same balls in 1940 eh? :wink:
Quote by GnV
We live in the now, star. Not in the past.
But the past made what we are today, you being an elder statesman show know that. :rascal:
Quote by Rogue_Trader
But the past made what we are today, you being an elder statesman show know that. :rascal:
Wholesale Slaughter
Genocide
Annexation
Slavery
Death Camps
...cherry pick the best bits that suit your argument Star.
What I was referring to was the spirit of which this country fought the Nazis. The spirit of the British people in times of extreme hardship.
Your examples above prove beyond any doubt that the human being is the most horrid hateful creature on the planet. We are still seeing that kind of savagery coming out of Syria, also many African countries kill and slaughter people like it is a walk in the park.
The past of course does shape generations that followed, as I know in Germany children are taught about the atrocities of their elders during the war and the examples you gives above. That hopefully shows the youth of today in Germany the horrors of what their country did and we hope that it does indeed change the way people view things.
So the past can shape the future even from war horrors you have mentioned.
Quote by GnV
The spirit of the British people in times of extreme hardship.
The spirits will be a bit cheaper now that Cameron has ditched the minimum pricing of alcohol idea :lol2:
What a nonsense of an idea in the first place. Let us adopt a minimum pricing policy so that 98% of responsible drinkers get punished for the mindless morons who are the remaining 2%.
Governments should never get involved in a shops pricing policy. People should be responsible for their drinking habits and the arseholes who end up in A&E on a Friday or Saturday night or cause untold trouble through their drinking, should spend a few weeks at Her Majesty's pleasure and a nice minimum £1000 fine.
Quote by starlightcouple
But the past made what we are today, you being an elder statesman show know that. :rascal:
Wholesale Slaughter
Genocide
Annexation
Slavery
Death Camps
...cherry pick the best bits that suit your argument Star.
What I was referring to was the spirit of which this country fought the Nazis. The spirit of the British people in times of extreme hardship.
Your examples above prove beyond any doubt that the human being is the most horrid hateful creature on the planet. We are still seeing that kind of savagery coming out of Syria, also many African countries kill and slaughter people like it is a walk in the park.
The past of course does shape generations that followed, as I know in Germany children are taught about the atrocities of their elders during the war and the examples you gives above. That hopefully shows the youth of today in Germany the horrors of what their country did and we hope that it does indeed change the way people view things.
So the past can shape the future even from war horrors you have mentioned.
Those horrors we (the British) committed in the name of this "great" country as we tried to take over the world. So yes those horrors shaped us into the people we are today. We have a lot to learn that getting around a table to sort out a problem is a lot more effective than confrontation.
Using the 5 "Why" technique, would be a good starter. Asking why of any problem, and by iteration, you will get to the underlying problem, solving the underlying problem costs a darn sight less than the surface one. Like what we have attempted to do in Afghanistan.
For example;
Q1: Why are we fighting in Afghanistan?
A: We are there to remove the threat of terrorism that is potentially threatening western lives.
Q2: Why is there the threat of terrorism to western lives?
and so on until you get the real answer, sometimes the real answer isn't what the government want you to hear so we are then fed lies and spin regarding Terrorist Bomb Plots or in the case of Iraq WMD's etc
