Afghanistan - A pointless waste of life?

14 Jul 2009

Quote by Trahern
Here, this is the kind of crap that bugs me. If the Powers That Be are going to send people off to risk life and limb (and sanity), for good reasons or not, the least they can do is make sure nothing goes wrong at their end.

Isn't the enemy already trying to kill us hard enough?

Sometimes it seems that way.
In Iraq people were " led " to believe he had WMD. He hindered the weapons inspectors at every opportunity. He deliberatly played the game, where by obstructing them, that he had something to hide. We all know he was playing a game, which he ended up being the biggest loser. Had he of co-operated the invasion would probably never have taken place.
He at times treated NATO like idiots, but he ended up not laughing but swinging.
As for Afganistan there WERE and still are training camps in operation. Those training camps were teaching the Taliban to kill people, and to train them to bomb the west.
IF we all want peace and security in this country, fear from being blown to bits on a bus or a train, then those camps and the men that are there, must be defeated.
Anyone who thinks differently then look at footage of 9/11 where people are jumping to their deaths, or the victims of that bus bomb where bits of people were splattered hundreds of yards into walls. Or the people who suffered so terribly on the underground trains. Can you imagine that fear?
Or the Bali bombings or the Madrid bombings.
All terrible acts of violence by these people whose only aims are to destroy our own way of life. If we do not stop them how long before the next bomb? How long before a another group of "British" extremists walk out of their front doors, with explosives attatched to their backs, ready to kill innocents just for " their cause ". Whatever that is.
Not only do we have the enemy in Afganistan but more worrying than that, is people born and bred in the UK, who want to kill us. So much for tolerance.
This war has to be won both here and in Afganistan, if we are ever to have peace and security in our lives. If that is not achievable then bring our troops home. Take the chains off of our troops and let them do the " job " they are trained to do. Without hinderance from the Human rights brigade. In war casualties are inevitable and that includes civilians. Stop pussyfooting around and go there with a rod of iron, and finish it.
With equipment that is not up to the job, and helicopters that do not work properly, is it any wonder our troops are struggling. If this Government really want to see our troops from being killed, then give them the right and proper tools for the job. No rules no arguements. Go in hard with no restrictions, and see how quick this war could be won.
It is like anyone of us trying to fight Mike Tyson blindfolded. Yes you may land one punch before he knocks ya head off.

14 Jul 2009

Only problem with that Kenty is that the missions then become Vietnam like and the problem of search and destroy is that the land, the terrain, is just stomped over and never actually taken and controlled.
Many veterans of the Vietnam campaign - on both sides - regard the search and destroy tactics employed by US and S Vietnamese forces were a waste of time and munitions. The effect on moral of troops patrolling an area the day after they had been there only to discover mines, booby traps and ambushes was terrible.
The land has to be patrolled, taken and then policed by local forces. This type of mission is understood by all armed forces because it is simple - policing a foreign land and hunting out the bad guys is an entirely different job.

14 Jul 2009

Quote by kentswingers777
........snip
In Iraq people were " led " to believe he had WMD. He hindered the weapons inspectors at every opportunity. He deliberatly played the game, where by obstructing them, that he had something to hide. We all know he was playing a game, which he ended up being the biggest loser. Had he of co-operated the invasion would probably never have taken place.
Not sure that's true, I think it was personal with George W and he would have found some excuse to invade.
Go in hard with no restrictions, and see how quick this war could be won.
I wonder how many restrictions the Soviet Army had and they didn't win it, quickly or otherwise!
.

14 Jul 2009

Quote by Too Hot
Only problem with that Kenty is that the missions then become Vietnam like and the problem of search and destroy is that the land, the terrain, is just stomped over and never actually taken and controlled.
Many veterans of the Vietnam campaign - on both sides - regard the search and destroy tactics employed by US and S Vietnamese forces were a waste of time and munitions. The effect on moral of troops patrolling an area the day after they had been there only to discover mines, booby traps and ambushes was terrible.
The land has to be patrolled, taken and then policed by local forces. This type of mission is understood by all armed forces because it is simple - policing a foreign land and hunting out the bad guys is an entirely different job.

I think the comparrisons with Vietnam are there for all to see Hot.
You do not know who you are fighting,almost jungle warfare, with very if not sometimes impossible conditions.
As Max stated the whole Russian army could not beat them. The terrain is so hostile and you just never know where the next teenage suicide bomber is coming from. It is not traditional warfare.
People now are starting to ask the questions as more hero soldiers are brought home in coffins.
Hearts and minds warfare are fine but that can take generations, whilst in the meantime our brave troops fight an enemy who are very smart at this kind of war.
For me I am starting to question the why's here, but then again mrs777's son could well be out there next April, so maybe my attitude is changing because of that.
I just want our troops properly kitted out, with the best there is to protect them. Also I want the injured soldiers to have every bit of help available when they come home.
Sorry but I just do not trust this Government to do this as they have cut the defence budget, I wonder why that was?

14 Jul 2009

Quote by kentswingers777
Here, this is the kind of crap that bugs me. If the Powers That Be are going to send people off to risk life and limb (and sanity), for good reasons or not, the least they can do is make sure nothing goes wrong at their end.

Isn't the enemy already trying to kill us hard enough?

Sometimes it seems that way.
In Iraq people were " led " to believe he had WMD. He hindered the weapons inspectors at every opportunity. He deliberatly played the game, where by obstructing them, that he had something to hide. We all know he was playing a game, which he ended up being the biggest loser. Had he of co-operated the invasion would probably never have taken place.
He at times treated NATO like idiots, but he ended up not laughing but swinging.
Sadam deliberately gave the impressions of WMD, due to his fear of another Iran / Irag war. He wanted Iran to fear Iraq. He also used the power of Iraq having WMD to keep him in power and influence the power he had ovre the people of Iraq.
As for Afganistan there WERE and still are training camps in operation. Those training camps were teaching the Taliban to kill people, and to train them to bomb the west.
The Taliban as such, are not a threat to the west. You wont find one hopping on a boat to Blighty. The media use the word Taliban to describe all Afghan insurgents / terrorists. The training camps that are there, (most have now moved to parts of Africa / pakistan) are to train mainly moslem extremists
IF we all want peace and security in this country, fear from being blown to bits on a bus or a train, then those camps and the men that are there, must be defeated.
Anyone who thinks differently then look at footage of 9/11 where people are jumping to their deaths, or the victims of that bus bomb where bits of people were splattered hundreds of yards into walls. Or the people who suffered so terribly on the underground trains. Can you imagine that fear?
Or the Bali bombings or the Madrid bombings.
9/11 and Bali had nothing to do with Afgahnistan.
All terrible acts of violence by these people whose only aims are to destroy our own way of life. If we do not stop them how long before the next bomb? How long before a another group of "British" extremists walk out of their front doors, with explosives attatched to their backs, ready to kill innocents just for " their cause ". Whatever that is.
Not only do we have the enemy in Afganistan but more worrying than that, is people born and bred in the UK, who want to kill us. So much for tolerance.
This war has to be won both here and in Afganistan, if we are ever to have peace and security in our lives. If that is not achievable then bring our troops home. Take the chains off of our troops and let them do the " job " they are trained to do. Without hinderance from the Human rights brigade. In war casualties are inevitable and that includes civilians. Stop pussyfooting around and go there with a rod of iron, and finish it.
With equipment that is not up to the job, and helicopters that do not work properly, is it any wonder our troops are struggling. If this Government really want to see our troops from being killed, then give them the right and proper tools for the job. No rules no arguements. Go in hard with no restrictions, and see how quick this war could be won.
Then see the PC brigade complain from the highest rooftops
It is like anyone of us trying to fight Mike Tyson blindfolded. Yes you may land one punch before he knocks ya head off.

14 Jul 2009

I know several people who've been to Afganistan and a very close friend is due out there in September and my son is due out in March next year.
Most people I have spoke to who are in the forces doesnt agree with what is going on out there, but as they say they have signed up to fight for queen and country and if they have to go they will. Most of them also say the extra money they get is more appealing to them and they dont tend to think of the danger that they could be in.
I know of one Captain who came back from Afganistan 8 weeks ago has already asked for a posting back there as his new job in this country is boring and he wants to be back on the front line which he was.
The only thing I dont understand is why the government do not help out more when the troops are coming back to this country injured and it takes the charity "Help For Heroes" to raise money to help these lads out.
So if you are reading this please log onto the above website and get yourself a wrist band they are only as the lads could really do with your support.

14 Jul 2009

Quote by lois
I know several people who've been to Afganistan and a very close friend is due out there in September and my son is due out in March next year.
Most people I have spoke to who are in the forces doesnt agree with what is going on out there, but as they say they have signed up to fight for queen and country and if they have to go they will. Most of them also say the extra money they get is more appealing to them and they dont tend to think of the danger that they could be in.
I know of one Captain who came back from Afganistan 8 weeks ago has already asked for a posting back there as his new job in this country is boring and he wants to be back on the front line which he was.
The only thing I dont understand is why the government do not help out more when the troops are coming back to this country injured and it takes the charity "Help For Heroes" to raise money to help these lads out.
So if you are reading this please log onto the above website and get yourself a wrist band they are only as the lads could really do with your support.

A good idea.
The Armed forces day is another thing that is new and long may it continue.
Our troops do a crap job at times, but am sure that whatever they do most will be proud of them. Just a sad state of affairs when these heroes come home in coffins.
Let's all prey there will not be many more.

14 Jul 2009

*Reels in horror at the thought of Saddam Hussein swinging.* :shock:

14 Jul 2009

You can lead a horse to water............

19 Jul 2009

Its tragic when our soldiers lives are lost, but what they are doing is a valid and worthwhile war, for our own safety and that of the ordinary Afghan people, most of whom don't want the Taliban, leftists in the UK say we should not interfere in other countries - but in the week a GB army officer said that most of the Taliban they captured were actually foreign fighters and that then IED bomb makers were trained in Iran - who also arm and fund Hezbollah in Lebanon, it seems these people are only too willing to do down their own side whilst ignoring the tyrants wishing to expand their own evil islamo-fascist empires.

19 Jul 2009

Most of the British soldiers are foreign too although there may be the odd Afghan in the British army I spose.
I dont like this comment much it smacks of being abusive to folk who do not share ones own opinion.
" it seems these people are only too willing to do down their own side whilst ignoring the tyrants wishing to expand their own evil islamo-fascist empires"

20 Jul 2009

"Most of the British army are foreign too" really?? Cant say i had noticed Bensrum, where did this piece of information come from and why do 95% of the lads i work with seem to be English,Welsh,Scottish and Irish.
As for why are we there, we know why we are here and so would you lot if you had to be here and see the things going on that are never reported and its all valid, yes its dangerous and yes lives are lost but we did not sign up to do parades and galas or to be stuck in offices or playing soldiers on Dartmoor, we signed up to fight for and to protect the people of the Uk and others that are treated badly by tyrants, and we certainly dont want to be called back home by people in suits or the general public when there is a job that needs finishing and can be finished.

20 Jul 2009

One thing that rankles me is the media bias over civilian casualties etc, whilst these must obviously be reported and prevented from happening again as they undoubtably a disaster, why is it C4 news et al never report Taleban atrocities such as their practice of throwing acid in schoolgirl's faces or the gouging out og female teachers eyes for the henious sin of wanting an education ?....

20 Jul 2009

Quote by jumptoit
"Most of the British army are foreign too" really?? Cant say i had noticed Bensrum, where did this piece of information come from and why do 95% of the lads i work with seem to be English,Welsh,Scottish and Irish.
As for why are we there, we know why we are here and so would you lot if you had to be here and see the things going on that are never reported and its all valid, yes its dangerous and yes lives are lost but we did not sign up to do parades and galas or to be stuck in offices or playing soldiers on Dartmoor, we signed up to fight for and to protect the people of the Uk and others that are treated badly by tyrants, and we certainly dont want to be called back home by people in suits or the general public when there is a job that needs finishing and can be finished.

I would like to know the answer to that one too.
Where mrs777's son is at army college, there are about six " foreign " soldiers out of 2800 men. But then again I know Bennys stance on this war and his opinions, can obviously cloud his facts.
Over to you Benny....we are waiting. wink

20 Jul 2009

Jump, Kent.
The previous poster claimed that "most of the Taliban they captured were actually foreign fighters ".
By this I took them to mean they were non Afghani.
I simply pointed out that the people fighting for the British army are mostly if not exclusively non Afghani.

20 Jul 2009

Ah right.

21 Jul 2009

I'm in the USA at the mo. I had to fill in a form and tick if I was a foreign national. I said no, I'm not foreign. But apparently, here, I am. How wierd is that? LOL
I suppose we need to establish a criterion for defining when someone becomes 'foreign'.

21 Jul 2009

Quote by foxylady2209
I'm in the USA at the mo. I had to fill in a form and tick if I was a foreign national. I said no, I'm not foreign. But apparently, here, I am. How wierd is that? LOL
I suppose we need to establish a criterion for defining when someone becomes 'foreign'.

I would have thought they already do?
If you are in another country and your passport says you was born elsewhere, then you must be a foreigner in that country you are visiting.

21 Jul 2009

Quote by kentswingers777
I'm in the USA at the mo. I had to fill in a form and tick if I was a foreign national. I said no, I'm not foreign. But apparently, here, I am. How wierd is that? LOL
I suppose we need to establish a criterion for defining when someone becomes 'foreign'.

21 Jul 2009

Quote by Max777
I'm in the USA at the mo. I had to fill in a form and tick if I was a foreign national. I said no, I'm not foreign. But apparently, here, I am. How wierd is that? LOL
I suppose we need to establish a criterion for defining when someone becomes 'foreign'.

I would have thought they already do?
If you are in another country and your passport says you was born elsewhere, then you must be a foreigner in that country you are visiting.
I have to agree Kent, that seems pretty straightforward to me! Also, the US Immigration officials are not renowned for their sense of humour, best not to "joke" with them if that's what you were doing Foxy.
Reminds me of when me Father went to the states and had a guy in front of him argueing with an immigration official. He was moaning about the ammount of questions being asked, and she told him very rudely that if he did not answer all of them, he would be on the next flight out.
Hence to say he answered them. lol

21 Jul 2009

Quote by foxylady2209
I'm in the USA at the mo. I had to fill in a form and tick if I was a foreign national. I said no, I'm not foreign. But apparently, here, I am. How wierd is that? LOL
I suppose we need to establish a criterion for defining when someone becomes 'foreign'.

In the States, a "foreigner" is actually referred to as an alien...
and yes kenty, I can confirm without any shadow of doubt, the TSA have absolutely NO sense of humour - don't even go there :lol2:

14 Aug 2009

Yes we recruit from Commonwealth countries, however with recruiting slots filling up faster than polyfilla then we are reaching a fully manned British army.
In regards to the pointless waste of life, mission misdirection, please remember that the majority of Afghanistan was liberated from a Taleban regime, that was a hell of a lot worse than the present government in office.
Now we can all say its not worth one British soldiers life to be there, argue that we are unable to win, when the Soviets failed to. In 1981 after 2 years of occupation the Soviets forces fatalities only started to really soar with the introduction of western aid in the form of hard cash and weapons.
On another site there is a good link which should enlighten anyone curious.