Sex God
nope
Join the most popular community of UK swingers now
Login
Arming the police
Sex God
Here is the story from the BBC:
A police force has apologised after an officer used a Taser on a blind man whose white stick was mistaken for a sword. Colin Farmer, 61, was stunned by police following reports of a man walking through Chorley with a samurai sword.
Ch Supt Stuart Williams, of Lancashire Police, said the force had "deep regrets" and had "clearly put this man through a traumatic experience". Mr Farmer was taken to hospital for treatment and later discharged. "It felt like I was grabbing an electricity pylon," he said. Mr Farmer, who has suffered two strokes, said he thought he was being attacked by thugs.
He was walking to a pub to meet friends on Friday when the officer fired the Taser. It forced him to drop his stick and he fell to the ground, he said. He said the experience had left him "shaking like a leaf" and scared to go outside. The case has been referred to the Independent Police Complaints Commission.
A Lancashire Police spokesman said the incident was being investigated and the officer's Taser had been withdrawn. 'Extremely sorry' Mr Williams said police had "received a number of reports that a man was walking through Chorley armed with a samurai sword".
We have launched an urgent investigation to understand what lessons can be learned” Ch Supt Stuart Williams Lancashire Police "A description of the offender was circulated to officers and patrols were sent to look for the man". "One of the officers who arrived in Chorley believed he had located the offender. "Despite asking the man to stop, he failed to do so and the officer discharged his Taser."
Mr Williams said it "became apparent that this man was not the person we were looking for and officers attended to him straight away", taking him to Chorley Hospital. He added that the force "deeply regrets what has happened".
"We have clearly put this man through a traumatic experience and we are extremely sorry for that," he said. "We have launched an urgent investigation to understand what lessons can be learned."
A man carrying a samurai sword was later arrested on suspicion of being drunk and disorderly.
There is no doubt that in this case the officer in question did get his judgement call spectacularly wrong. A tazers range is around 30 metres and so you would think that the officer would have been able to tell the difference betwixt a samurai sword and a white stick.
Whilst it is no excuse for poor judgement (or eyesight :eeek
lets not forget that the Officer was responding to a report of a drunk with a samurai sword and he was sent there to protect the public.
A police force has apologised after an officer used a Taser on a blind man whose white stick was mistaken for a sword. Colin Farmer, 61, was stunned by police following reports of a man walking through Chorley with a samurai sword.
Ch Supt Stuart Williams, of Lancashire Police, said the force had "deep regrets" and had "clearly put this man through a traumatic experience". Mr Farmer was taken to hospital for treatment and later discharged. "It felt like I was grabbing an electricity pylon," he said. Mr Farmer, who has suffered two strokes, said he thought he was being attacked by thugs.
He was walking to a pub to meet friends on Friday when the officer fired the Taser. It forced him to drop his stick and he fell to the ground, he said. He said the experience had left him "shaking like a leaf" and scared to go outside. The case has been referred to the Independent Police Complaints Commission.
A Lancashire Police spokesman said the incident was being investigated and the officer's Taser had been withdrawn. 'Extremely sorry' Mr Williams said police had "received a number of reports that a man was walking through Chorley armed with a samurai sword".
We have launched an urgent investigation to understand what lessons can be learned” Ch Supt Stuart Williams Lancashire Police "A description of the offender was circulated to officers and patrols were sent to look for the man". "One of the officers who arrived in Chorley believed he had located the offender. "Despite asking the man to stop, he failed to do so and the officer discharged his Taser."
Mr Williams said it "became apparent that this man was not the person we were looking for and officers attended to him straight away", taking him to Chorley Hospital. He added that the force "deeply regrets what has happened".
"We have clearly put this man through a traumatic experience and we are extremely sorry for that," he said. "We have launched an urgent investigation to understand what lessons can be learned."
A man carrying a samurai sword was later arrested on suspicion of being drunk and disorderly.
There is no doubt that in this case the officer in question did get his judgement call spectacularly wrong. A tazers range is around 30 metres and so you would think that the officer would have been able to tell the difference betwixt a samurai sword and a white stick.
Whilst it is no excuse for poor judgement (or eyesight :eeek
lets not forget that the Officer was responding to a report of a drunk with a samurai sword and he was sent there to protect the public. What I don't understand is how the Officer could possibly have got to a point where he felt an imminent threat from the man such that a taser was the appropriate response!! Surely if he had shouted "Police, on your knees" or something, the poor blind man would have been likely to have complied.
I doubt an Officer would fire a gun as readily as a taser. Having said that, we are all only human and Police Officers, like everyone else, make mistakes too. At least a mistake with a taser is less dangerous than a mistake with a gun.
I think that if we ever do arm the police, it should be in specific areas only, where gun crime is a serious problem. For the most part, we don't have a need for armed Officers, in my opinion.
I doubt an Officer would fire a gun as readily as a taser. Having said that, we are all only human and Police Officers, like everyone else, make mistakes too. At least a mistake with a taser is less dangerous than a mistake with a gun.
I think that if we ever do arm the police, it should be in specific areas only, where gun crime is a serious problem. For the most part, we don't have a need for armed Officers, in my opinion.
Sex God
Quote by Lilith
What I don't understand is how the Officer could possibly have got to a point where he felt an imminent threat from the man such that a taser was the appropriate response!! Surely if he had shouted "Police, on your knees" or something, the poor blind man would have been likely to have complied.
Unfortunately the man either didn't hear or didn't heed the officers warnings:
"Despite asking the man to stop, he failed to do so and the officer discharged his Taser."
Sex God
I wasn't aware that the guy was shot in the back, as the article I quoted doesn't appear to say where on the body the man was hit, and neither did the sky news report I saw yesterday.
I don't know the rules of engagement used by that particular force when using tazers, so I can't really comment whether it was right or not for anyone to be shot in the back. But if the officer was behind the man at the time of the incident it does go to show why it may have been hard for him to determine the difference between a sword and a stick doesn't it?
Don't get me wrong, the officer and the force are responsible and it should be investigated by the IPCC, but I don't like to judge without knowing the whole circumstances.
I don't know the rules of engagement used by that particular force when using tazers, so I can't really comment whether it was right or not for anyone to be shot in the back. But if the officer was behind the man at the time of the incident it does go to show why it may have been hard for him to determine the difference between a sword and a stick doesn't it?
Don't get me wrong, the officer and the force are responsible and it should be investigated by the IPCC, but I don't like to judge without knowing the whole circumstances.
Sex God
Further to my last post I have just had a look at a few news sources and the guy himself admits he ignored 'the shouting' because he didn't realise it was aimed at him. He also admits to turning around at the moment he was shot. His white stick is also a lot shorter than ones I have seen in use before and is more of a short cane.
So although the facts stand that a registered blind man was shot in the back, the circumstances leading up to the incident aren't quite as clear cut. An officer responded in semi darkness to reports of a drunk guy with a samurai sword. He approached a guy waving an object around and attempted to stop him moving further. The guy ignored the officers warnings and at the point of firing he turned, and was hit on the rear of his body.
Like I've said before, there should be a thorough investigation and if necessary blame should be apportioned correctly. But a quick review of a few news sites show that there is slightly more to the story than the headline of 'blind man tasered by police'.
So although the facts stand that a registered blind man was shot in the back, the circumstances leading up to the incident aren't quite as clear cut. An officer responded in semi darkness to reports of a drunk guy with a samurai sword. He approached a guy waving an object around and attempted to stop him moving further. The guy ignored the officers warnings and at the point of firing he turned, and was hit on the rear of his body.
Like I've said before, there should be a thorough investigation and if necessary blame should be apportioned correctly. But a quick review of a few news sites show that there is slightly more to the story than the headline of 'blind man tasered by police'.
Quote by Trevaunance
Here is the story from the BBC:
A police force has apologised after an officer used a Taser on a blind man whose white stick was mistaken for a sword. Colin Farmer, 61, was stunned by police following reports of a man walking through Chorley with a samurai sword.
Ch Supt Stuart Williams, of Lancashire Police, said the force had "deep regrets" and had "clearly put this man through a traumatic experience". Mr Farmer was taken to hospital for treatment and later discharged.
I know I shouldn't, but am I the only one who sniggered at that? :lol2:
As for the original question.... I hold the view that our bobbies have access to firearms as/when they need them, and I'm actually quite proud to confirm to my American friends that our laws can mostly be upheld without their use. :thumbup:
Sex God
No your not the only one cubes 
Sex God
Quote by Cubes
I hold the view that our bobbies have access to firearms as/when they need them, and I'm actually quite proud to confirm to my American friends that our laws can mostly be upheld without their use. :thumbup:
Yup. Policing by consent in a nutshell Cubes, because even your criminal classes have a general tendency to comply once the game's up. As opposed to policing by threat of deadly force which simply raises the stakes for all concerned in a never ending arms race, you have a service revolver, I'll get an automatic pistol, you get an automatic pistol, I'll get a semi-automatic rifle, bring on your SWAT teams, yadda, yadda, ya. Arming the police wholesale fundamentally changes the dynamic and the relationship between citizen and state with the police as the state's enforcers.
The way things work at the minute seems sensible. I lived in Chapeltown in Leeds for a good coupla years, 100 yards from what was then crack central. Think a Yorkshire version of Moss Side. The sound of occasional gun fire was depressingly all to familiar. It's been cleaned up massively since, almost beyond recognition by a real concerted effort involving council, police and community working in tandem. Policing by consent in action once again. Course, there was almost always an Armed Response Vehicle on stand-by somewhere nearby, Chapeltown nick being a major police station to deal with incidents of gun crime, often just making its presence known in the area with fairly high profile patrolling. This is the right way to police in my opinion, see no reason to change it.
Sex God
Why do we always compare arming British Police with what happens in the USA? We should really compare countries where personal arms posession is illegal and arming the Police is normal. Austria, Germany, Spain, New Zealand and Australia - to name just a few.
Unfortunately, I fear that somewhere in the UK will, in the foreseeable future, experience a horrendous terrorist event on such a massive scale that it will overwhelm the Police force and British Policing will change for ever after that. We tend not to be very good at pro-actively thinking ahead but we are very good at knee jerk reactions.
Unfortunately, I fear that somewhere in the UK will, in the foreseeable future, experience a horrendous terrorist event on such a massive scale that it will overwhelm the Police force and British Policing will change for ever after that. We tend not to be very good at pro-actively thinking ahead but we are very good at knee jerk reactions.
Sexpert
Quote by flower411
I`ve never really been 100% sure about arming police officers as a matter of course. Some days it seems like a good idea and other days not so good at all.
....it`s cos they just shot a blind man in the back with a tazer !!! WTF :shock:
....
I have mixed feelings on this one. But the counter argument to this story would be the two Manchester PC's who where attacked by criminals armed with guns, and grenades.
I think our police should be armed.
I wonder if both the female police officers would have died if they had been armed ?
The blind guy said in an interview that he ignored the shouting because he didn't think it was aimed at him, maybe he should have listened to what was being shouted then he might not have been tazzered !
I wonder if both the female police officers would have died if they had been armed ?
The blind guy said in an interview that he ignored the shouting because he didn't think it was aimed at him, maybe he should have listened to what was being shouted then he might not have been tazzered !
Quote by nellie-mwgc
I think our police should be armed.
I wonder if both the female police officers would have died if they had been armed ?
The blind guy said in an interview that he ignored the shouting because he didn't think it was aimed at him, maybe he should have listened to what was being shouted then he might not have been tazzered !
Imagine you're blind...walking down the street..
you hear "you with the sword, stop and lay down the weapon"
you think "fuck... guy behind me with sword, I'm outta here..."
next minute....bbzzzzzzttttttt.
A bit more due diligence on the police officers behalf. Though I dont think the book should be thrown at him, just a little more training.
With regards to arming the police, I don't believe they should in the standard line of duty as we have tactical response teams available for that sort of thing.
Sex God
Quote by nellie-mwgc
I wonder if both the female police officers would have died if they had been armed ?
They were ambushed with a grenade attack and then shot whilst they were on the ground. So I can't really see arming them would have made a difference.
I believe arming the police would be the start of a very dangerous escalation.
Before the taser was available to beat officers, they had to handle situations with diplomacy and, if that failed, with as much force as they could muster. Nowadays the taser regularly pops up in all sort of situations, and is frequently used as a deterrent.
For example, I was watching one of the multitude of reality cop shows on the TV last night where a guy was cornered by two police, both of whom had their tasers pointed at him. The only warning they gave was along the lines of "if you make any move which I consider to be threatening you're going to get tasered".
Now I know the guy they cornered was suspected of a violent affray, but if you replaced the tasers with sidearms, and the apply the same scenario, the guy could sneeze and be dead before you know it, with the defence being "he made a threatening move".
Before the taser was available to beat officers, they had to handle situations with diplomacy and, if that failed, with as much force as they could muster. Nowadays the taser regularly pops up in all sort of situations, and is frequently used as a deterrent.
For example, I was watching one of the multitude of reality cop shows on the TV last night where a guy was cornered by two police, both of whom had their tasers pointed at him. The only warning they gave was along the lines of "if you make any move which I consider to be threatening you're going to get tasered".
Now I know the guy they cornered was suspected of a violent affray, but if you replaced the tasers with sidearms, and the apply the same scenario, the guy could sneeze and be dead before you know it, with the defence being "he made a threatening move".
Quote by nellie-mwgc
I wonder if both the female police officers would have died if they had been armed ?
Quote by Trevaunance
They were ambushed with a grenade attack and then shot whilst they were on the ground. So I can't really see arming them would have made a difference.
But it may have, neither of us know for sure.
What I do know is that If I were a serving Police officer in the UK, and watch my colleagues abused, knifed, spat at and shot at and generally abused on a daily basis, and then also had to endure the heartache of seeing the news of two female officers gunned down in cold blood, is it any bloody wonder the Police take very few chances nowadays.
All well and good people on here spouting about how quick they were to act with the stunning of a blind man, and I admit that it was a sad act, but to be a police officer now I would give a potential criminal two chances to drop any potential weapon, before I opened fire with a tazer.
Can the police really afford to take second chances now?
The open arming of police officers happens in many parts of the UK already. Airports and protecting high ranking politicians etc, and apparently an armed response unit is a maximum of ten minutes away from anywhere in the UK. I think that is good enough at this time, but I really hate it when people openly critisise the police for doing a very dangerous job, that as we have seen recently, can have terrible consequences for those officers.
In many cases I believe it is better to act and then ask questions later, and I am not talking about firearm use there but other deterrents that the Police currently have at their disposal, a tazer being a classic example.
Sex God
Quote by Cubes
I believe arming the police would be the start of a very dangerous escalation.
Before the taser was available to beat officers, they had to handle situations with diplomacy and, if that failed, with as much force as they could muster. Nowadays the taser regularly pops up in all sort of situations, and is frequently used as a deterrent.
For example, I was watching one of the multitude of reality cop shows on the TV last night where a guy was cornered by two police, both of whom had their tasers pointed at him. The only warning they gave was along the lines of "if you make any move which I consider to be threatening you're going to get tasered".
Now I know the guy they cornered was suspected of a violent affray, but if you replaced the tasers with sidearms, and the apply the same scenario, the guy could sneeze and be dead before you know it, with the defence being "he made a threatening move".
You are making the assumption that tazers would be replaced with firearms. This is unlikely to happen in the UK because unlike the USA, there is not widespread public firearms possession (even though they do also use tasers as well in the US).
In respect of the two female officers in Manchesters - they were ambushed and even the most highly armed fighting forces in the world will suffer losses in an ambush situation. It is unlikely that they would have been saved had they been armed because they assumed that they were attending a regular domestic call. An entirely different scenario was the mad man in Cumbria who shot all those people - many would not now be dead had the regular officers on scene been armed.
Just on a slightly wider point about armed officers at the moment - I recall seeing or reading something some time ago that only a very small percentage of officers ever get back to front line, armed duty after having discharged their weapons in service.
Having said that, I still think that we will experience a terrorist outrage so horrific that it will change Policing forever in this country. Just a matter of time regrettably.
Quote by Trevaunance
I wonder if both the female police officers would have died if they had been armed ?
They were ambushed with a grenade attack and then shot whilst they were on the ground. So I can't really see arming them would have made a difference.
It might have made difference though, sadly we will never know but i know that if anyone from my family was in the police force then i would far prefer them to be armed.
Quote by Rogue_trader
I think our police should be armed.
I wonder if both the female police officers would have died if they had been armed ?
The blind guy said in an interview that he ignored the shouting because he didn't think it was aimed at him, maybe he should have listened to what was being shouted then he might not have been tazzered !
Imagine you're blind...walking down the street..
you hear "you with the sword, stop and lay down the weapon"
you think "fuck... guy behind me with sword, I'm outta here..."
next minute....bbzzzzzzttttttt.
A bit more due diligence on the police officers behalf. Though I dont think the book should be thrown at him, just a little more training.
With regards to arming the police, I don't believe they should in the standard line of duty as we have tactical response teams available for that sort of thing.
To be honest if i was blind and walking along with a stick and heard that yelled i would wonder if they meant me and i would act accordingly. Same as i do when i am at football matches and notice that police officers and stewards are watching me because i carry a large pointy metal stick all the time and i know that they are wondering why i am !
Quote by nellie-mwgc
I wonder if both the female police officers would have died if they had been armed ?
In a frighteningly similar scenario in a suburb of France a short time ago, two female armed officers were ambushed by a man whilst they were attending a so called 'domestic' incident. He knocked one officer to the ground and took her weapon - shooting her dead in the process and then chased the other officer through the town, cornering her near the church and shot her dead too with the other officer's weapon.
These are officers who, as a matter of course, are armed and openly display their weapons whilst on patrol so yes, it would have perhaps made no difference at all.
