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At last ! A policy worth voting for !!
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I'm late for work so I'll be brief.
This is a matter of what you think is right and wrong. I think it's wrong to torture animals for my own amusement. I don't think it's wrong for a cat to kill animals, as a cat is a cat and that is what they do. You can't ascribe higher moral functions to an animal designed by nature to kill other animals, that's just silly.
As a human being, equipped with a conscience and everything, I do have the responsibility to decide right from wrong. I don't think it's right to derive pleasure from hurting people or things, not when I have so many other options available to me, like watching the TV or going to the pictures. What's wrong with just riding the horses? What's wrong with doing competitive shooting? Why do you have to kill something to be having fun? Why is it any different to fishing, in fact, if you're saying fishing is bad? If you're going to say fox-hunting is about controlling fox numbers, why the red coats and the horns and the massive crowd of people, why not just let the dogs have them? Or traps or whatever.
Not a very rigorous argument but as I said I'm late for work. Didn't have time to do the reading so I daresay you'll say I'm ignorant. (incidentally though, tell me more about how it criminalises law-abiding citizens? Surely if they abided by the law and refrained from participating in bloodsports, they wouldn't be criminals?) I think it basically comes down to whether you like it or whether you don't, at the end of the day.
I also don't think it's an especially significant issue. I mean seriously, if you think this is worth deciding your vote on... read the news more.
This is a matter of what you think is right and wrong. I think it's wrong to torture animals for my own amusement. I don't think it's wrong for a cat to kill animals, as a cat is a cat and that is what they do. You can't ascribe higher moral functions to an animal designed by nature to kill other animals, that's just silly.
As a human being, equipped with a conscience and everything, I do have the responsibility to decide right from wrong. I don't think it's right to derive pleasure from hurting people or things, not when I have so many other options available to me, like watching the TV or going to the pictures. What's wrong with just riding the horses? What's wrong with doing competitive shooting? Why do you have to kill something to be having fun? Why is it any different to fishing, in fact, if you're saying fishing is bad? If you're going to say fox-hunting is about controlling fox numbers, why the red coats and the horns and the massive crowd of people, why not just let the dogs have them? Or traps or whatever.
Not a very rigorous argument but as I said I'm late for work. Didn't have time to do the reading so I daresay you'll say I'm ignorant. (incidentally though, tell me more about how it criminalises law-abiding citizens? Surely if they abided by the law and refrained from participating in bloodsports, they wouldn't be criminals?) I think it basically comes down to whether you like it or whether you don't, at the end of the day.
I also don't think it's an especially significant issue. I mean seriously, if you think this is worth deciding your vote on... read the news more.
Quote by flower411
With the constant homogenization of political parties in this country making it impossible to differentiate between them, it`s great to see somebody standing up for a bit of English culture. It is truly inspiring to see a Conservative leader speaking out in favour of a cultural minority !!
The current law is confusing and mostly unenforcable and criminalises law abiding citizens. It merely provides an outlet for unemployed townie busybodies with nothing better to do than sit in bushes spying on people going about their business.
No .... I`m not talking about that nasty barbaric passtime where people torture fish, sometimes for hours on end and then throw the injured animal back into the water or leave it to die a nasty death on the river bank......that`s still legal :shock: !!!!!
I`m talking about hunting with dogs ......
Please note that it`s not illegal to own cats and allow them to indiscriminately hunt,torture and kill small mammals with no control, but taking out a controlled hunt with a specific aim, is illegal !! How weird is that ??
So big up to David Cameron .....well said that man :thumbup:
A sweeping statement about fishing, i like fishing and do so for fun and for food, which has been done for 1000`s of years, it would be like me saying that all people who are pro hunters are moronic toffs with nothing better to do than shout "Tally ho" and charge around the fields with a pack of rabid dogs trying to catch a defenseless fox to shred to pieces all in the name of enjoyment, oh and before you say anything i was brought up on a farm in the Yorkshire Dales and still live there and not some city dweller.
Quote by jumptoit
A sweeping statement about fishing, i like fishing and do so for fun and for food, which has been done for 1000`s of years, it would be like me saying that all people who are pro hunters are moronic toffs with nothing better to do than shout "Tally ho" and charge around the fields with a pack of rabid dogs trying to catch a defenseless fox to shred to pieces all in the name of enjoyment, oh and before you say anything i was brought up on a farm in the Yorkshire Dales and still live there and not some city dweller who has never even seen a sheep or smelled the shit!
You get that close then...
Quote by GnV
A sweeping statement about fishing, i like fishing and do so for fun and for food, which has been done for 1000`s of years, it would be like me saying that all people who are pro hunters are moronic toffs with nothing better to do than shout "Tally ho" and charge around the fields with a pack of rabid dogs trying to catch a defenseless fox to shred to pieces all in the name of enjoyment, oh and before you say anything i was brought up on a farm in the Yorkshire Dales and still live there and not some city dweller who has never even seen a sheep or smelled the shit!
You get that close then...
Do you know i was actually thinking of you as i put it...............
Sex God
Quote by flower411
Hang on !!
Are you seriously saying that keeping a wild animal that roams around the neighbourhood torturing and killing other mammals while you are elsewhere is "morally" correct and that you have no responsibility because you can`t control it ???
And shitting without conscience in everyone's garden but their own ! CATS !! Yeeaargghhhh.......... Slimy, devious, four legged little cretins.
Quote by Too Hot
Hang on !!
Are you seriously saying that keeping a wild animal that roams around the neighbourhood torturing and killing other mammals while you are elsewhere is "morally" correct and that you have no responsibility because you can`t control it ???
And shitting without conscience in everyone's garden but their own ! CATS !! Yeeaargghhhh.......... Slimy, devious, four legged little cretins.
Can cats have a conscience?
For me I do not like the idea of a pack of dogs being bred to rip a fox to pieces, and then the fecking toff brigade classing it as fun...that's bollox.
I am not a lover of foxes, and believe me we have a few around here, and they shit in me garden too but....fox hunting is a blood sport, pure and simple.
I cannot see how a cat can be even discussed in the same manner. Cats are not bred to kill small mammals, which btw I presume rats and mice, which are vermin.
As for fish
I used to fish and in my experience the only time I have seen any cruelty towards them, is by youngsters, not the adults that take it very seriously. Plus the regulations now involved when you go fishing, far outweighs what they used to be.
Fox hunting is a blood sport and as far as I am aware IS illegal, where the others are not.....simples.
I am not a lover of foxes, and believe me we have a few around here, and they shit in me garden too but....fox hunting is a blood sport, pure and simple.
I cannot see how a cat can be even discussed in the same manner. Cats are not bred to kill small mammals, which btw I presume rats and mice, which are vermin.
As for fish
I used to fish and in my experience the only time I have seen any cruelty towards them, is by youngsters, not the adults that take it very seriously. Plus the regulations now involved when you go fishing, far outweighs what they used to be.Fox hunting is a blood sport and as far as I am aware IS illegal, where the others are not.....simples.
Sex God
Quote by Too Hot
And shitting without conscience in everyone's garden but their own ! CATS !! Yeeaargghhhh.......... Slimy, devious, four legged little cretins.
Seconded :mad::mad::mad::mad::mad:
Quote by Kaznkev
For me I do not like the idea of a pack of dogs being bred to rip a fox to pieces, and then the fecking toff brigade classing it as fun...that's bollox.
I am not a lover of foxes, and believe me we have a few around here, and they shit in me garden too but....fox hunting is a blood sport, pure and simple.
I cannot see how a cat can be even discussed in the same manner. Cats are not bred to kill small mammals, which btw I presume rats and mice, which are vermin.
As for fish
Fox hunting is a blood sport and as far as I am aware IS illegal, where the others are not.....simples.
As I am unable to answer this for fear of being banned, could a mod kindly remove the comment from the thread ?
Thanks.
Flower the first sensible thing kentys written and you want it removed!:shock:
Why ?
A good question.
I think he has about as much chance of getting a perfectly good comment removed from any thread, as I have of winning the lottery.
Or is the insinuation that admin have warned him not to reply to anything I write?
Somehow I think not.
Am sure though that a good Mod will come along and advise us all?
Sex God
I have no particular love for foxes...I despise most of the types who hunted them with hounds...so bollocks to them.
P.S. If fox hunting is about controlling the fox population ...why did many hunts breed them ? why are they not shot or poisoned ? why are hordes of tossers required to trample crops and generally destroy the land they're supposed to be protecting from the evil fox?
P.P.S. if Cameron says it's alright then it can't be....it's the rules
P.S. If fox hunting is about controlling the fox population ...why did many hunts breed them ? why are they not shot or poisoned ? why are hordes of tossers required to trample crops and generally destroy the land they're supposed to be protecting from the evil fox?
P.P.S. if Cameron says it's alright then it can't be....it's the rules
Sex God
Quote by Staggerlee_BB
I have no particular love for foxes...I despise most of the types who hunted them with hounds...so bollocks to them.
P.S. If fox hunting is about controlling the fox population ...why did many hunts breed them ? why are they not shot or poisoned ? why are hordes of tossers required to trample crops and generally destroy the land they're supposed to be protecting from the evil fox?
P.P.S. if Cameron says it's alright then it can't be....it's the rules
I have never encountered any TYPE! People from every walk of life, social background and status form the hunting community, from the poorest farm employee to the very well off land owner, and every one in between. There is no one type. It is a common misconception.
Sex God
Quote by Bluefish2009
I have no particular love for foxes...I despise most of the types who hunted them with hounds...so bollocks to them.
P.S. If fox hunting is about controlling the fox population ...why did many hunts breed them ? why are they not shot or poisoned ? why are hordes of tossers required to trample crops and generally destroy the land they're supposed to be protecting from the evil fox?
P.P.S. if Cameron says it's alright then it can't be....it's the rules
I have never encountered any TYPE! People from every walk of life, social background and status form the hunting community, from the poorest farm employee to the very well off land owner, and every one in between. There is no one type. It is a common misconception.
I'm sure people from all walks of life who can afford to keep a horse do indeed hunt.....but I strongly suspect (and no I haven't got any evidence) that the majority are from very similar backgrounds and that the actual members of the various hunts are even more likely to share that background i.e. a bunch of upper middle-class old school tie tossers and their wives camilla...oh and the "gentry"
Master of Sex
Quote by kentswingers777
I don't often agree with you Staggs, but on this occasion you are quite correct.
Plum in the mouth brigade...sucking on lemons.
Apart from he isn't right, but hey-ho. Sums up exactly why the ban on hunting with hounds is an awful piece of legislation that has sod all to do with animal welfare and everything to do with trying to secure the vote of middle class, faux socialists.
Sex God
Quote by Jewlnmart
I don't often agree with you Staggs, but on this occasion you are quite correct.
Plum in the mouth brigade...sucking on lemons.
Apart from he isn't right, but hey-ho. Sums up exactly why the ban on hunting with hounds is an awful piece of legislation that has sod all to do with animal welfare and everything to do with trying to secure the vote of middle class, faux socialists.
Which hunt are/were you a member of ? what was the make-up of the hunt? how many were land owners/bankers/knighted(or in possession of a title)how many of those not employed by the hunt would you say were working class?
Me? marxist and not middle-class
Master of Sex
Quote by Staggerlee_BB
I don't often agree with you Staggs, but on this occasion you are quite correct.
Plum in the mouth brigade...sucking on lemons.
Apart from he isn't right, but hey-ho. Sums up exactly why the ban on hunting with hounds is an awful piece of legislation that has sod all to do with animal welfare and everything to do with trying to secure the vote of middle class, faux socialists.
Which hunt are/were you a member of ? what was the make-up of the hunt? how many were land owners/bankers/knighted(or in possession of a title)how many of those not employed by the hunt would you say were working class?
Me? marxist and not middle-class
The hunts that I have had involvement with had a broad spectrum of people involved. The mother-in-law used to ride out, but she didn't own a horse, she used other peoples (wife of a farm labourer), as many people who rode did. I know many people who rode with hunts who weren't land owners/bankers or titled.
Sex God
Quote by Jewlnmart
I don't often agree with you Staggs, but on this occasion you are quite correct.
Plum in the mouth brigade...sucking on lemons.
Apart from he isn't right, but hey-ho. Sums up exactly why the ban on hunting with hounds is an awful piece of legislation that has sod all to do with animal welfare and everything to do with trying to secure the vote of middle class, faux socialists.
Which hunt are/were you a member of ? what was the make-up of the hunt? how many were land owners/bankers/knighted(or in possession of a title)how many of those not employed by the hunt would you say were working class?
Me? marxist and not middle-class
The hunts that I have had involvement with had a broad spectrum of people involved. The mother-in-law used to ride out, but she didn't own a horse, she used other peoples (wife of a farm labourer), as many people who rode did. I know many people who rode with hunts who weren't land owners/bankers or titled.
Sorry I may not have made myself clear ...I was asking about members of the hunt not just those who rode with it.....the upper classes have a long illustrious career of using others to further their cause
Sex God
I understand that this is a very emotive subject for many. I also know that my thoughts on this matter are very unlikely to change any ones views, but having read the above comments I feel I must address some of them. And, I hope, answer just a few questions. Some sweeping statements have been made, which are clearly bigoted and more about some miss-guided class war fare, which I never understood, as so many different classes are involved in hunting from the ground up. Hunting attracts people from every walk of life. (This is unusual territory as normal find myself reading Staggerlee’s comments and nodding in agreement, Kenty however I normally always disagree with 
)
One of the many conclusions of the Burns Report shows that: “Broadly speaking, support was highest in all areas amongst men, older people, those who had lived in the area for a long time, people working in rural occupations and those in lower social class bands.
However, class did have much to do with the Bill it’s self.
“Now that hunting has been banned, we ought at last to own up to it: the struggle over the Bill was not just about animal welfare and personal freedom, it was class war.”
Peter Bradley MP, PPS to Defra Minister Alun Michael, Sunday Telegraph, 21st November 2004.
I (Mr Bluefish) grew up in a very rural area of Dorset, my grandfather was a farrier and the local hunt was just up the road from our home. So I was brought up with hunting, shooting and other country ways of life. We thought nothing of them, they were just part of the way we lived our lives.
Firstly whether we like the idea or not, farmers do have to, and will control fox numbers.
I do believe hunting is about fox control, there is, of course, much more to it than just fox control as members have commented above. There is the enjoyment of the social occasion, the traditions and the days riding. Is that so bad? People go fox hunting because they enjoy it, other people eat meet because they enjoy it, and that is the only reason we eat meat. Hunting with hounds is actually the finest means of controlling foxes there is. Firstly, just like nature it is selective and non-wounding. It emulates the way that wolves hunt their quarry, they target the old, week, ailing and injured animals. The hunted either lives or dies. This can not be done by shooting, trapping, or poison. It is the only method that can utilise a search and dispatch facility, that is, if a sheep farmer is experiencing a predation problem from a rouge fox, the hunt will turn up in the early hours of the morning, shortly after the offending fox has made its kill. They can then use the hounds to track and kill that actual fox. Not possible by any other means. Some of those other means are not so clean and clear cut as you might have been lead to believe. Fox shooting is rarely carried out by the professional, more often it is a pot shot, with an inadequate shot gun, rather than a high powered rifle, by a desperate farmer which will often maim, rather than kill, also you can not target a specific animal. Poisons are often used, but again do not target a specific animal, in fact they end up killing many other animals as well as the foxes. I have left, what I believe is the most horrid to last which is the trapping, there are any number of gruesome traps out on the market used to trap foxes, all of which maim, and leave the animal to a slow lingering death much more often than a clean kill. The cheapest and there for most frequent used is the snare, a fox which has caught a limb in a snare, will spend hours trying to gnaw his leg off to escape the trap. That is my thoughts on cruelty, below are the words of Lord Burns, Chairman of the Inquiry into Hunting with dogs.
House of Lords, 12th March 2001. (An independent Government Inquiry into hunting with dogs
“Naturally, people ask whether we were implying that hunting is cruel... the short answer to that question is no. There was not sufficient verifiable evidence or data safely to reach views about cruelty.” Lord Burns also concluded that: “insensibility and death will normally follow within a matter of seconds once the fox is caught.”
A published veterinary opinion on hunting with hounds stated: “The kill occurs as a swift, almost instantaneous, procedure made possible by the considerable power weight advantage the hound has over the fox.
The hunting with dog’s bill, in my humble opinion, is a complete shambles. Despite claims to the contrary, the Hunting Act never had the support of Parliament. In fact, more parliamentarians voted against it than for it. The Hunting Act was eventually driven through the House of Commons in a single day following a blatant breach of Parliamentary protocol. It was then forced past the House of Lords using the ultimate constitutional sledgehammer, the Parliament Acts, which was used for only the fourth time since 1949.
“Unfortunately the wording of the act is ambiguous” Professor Patrick Bateson, appearing as a witness for the League against Cruel Sports, against the Quantocks Staghounds, 22nd May 2007.
In many ways, the bill makes little sense, exemptions had to be included supposedly allowing "pest control" while cleansing the hunting process of any "killing for fun". Why pest control is somehow better for the fox/quarry animals concerned than an activity that has an element of sport involved is a mystery and leads to a twisted sense of logic. Terriers can be used on a fox underground to protect birds that are to be shot and yet, exactly the same process cannot be used to protect a farmer's livestock or to save a rare ground nesting bird. Dogs are permitted to kill a rabbit, but not a hare. Dogs are permitted to kill a rat, but not a mouse. Double standards or just madness?
Expert opinion on animal welfare and wildlife management does not favour a ban, and the Government’s own independent inquiry, the Burns Inquiry concluded that that there was no evidence that hunting was any less humane than alternative methods of control. Public opinion is opposed to a ban, and supports a regulatory, or licensing, system for hunting.
Again, in my humble opinion, a law promoted on the basis of prejudice, and justified by flawed and improper evidence has no place on our Statute Book.
I will leave you with these thought’s. The measure of a true democracy is tolerance: tolerance of minorities, and tolerance of activities that the majority might not support.
“The future of our society should be founded on Shared values of liberty and democracy and fairness.” Prime Minister Gorden Brown MP, 12th January 2007
Tally Ho
)One of the many conclusions of the Burns Report shows that: “Broadly speaking, support was highest in all areas amongst men, older people, those who had lived in the area for a long time, people working in rural occupations and those in lower social class bands.
However, class did have much to do with the Bill it’s self.
“Now that hunting has been banned, we ought at last to own up to it: the struggle over the Bill was not just about animal welfare and personal freedom, it was class war.”
Peter Bradley MP, PPS to Defra Minister Alun Michael, Sunday Telegraph, 21st November 2004.
I (Mr Bluefish) grew up in a very rural area of Dorset, my grandfather was a farrier and the local hunt was just up the road from our home. So I was brought up with hunting, shooting and other country ways of life. We thought nothing of them, they were just part of the way we lived our lives.
Firstly whether we like the idea or not, farmers do have to, and will control fox numbers.
I do believe hunting is about fox control, there is, of course, much more to it than just fox control as members have commented above. There is the enjoyment of the social occasion, the traditions and the days riding. Is that so bad? People go fox hunting because they enjoy it, other people eat meet because they enjoy it, and that is the only reason we eat meat. Hunting with hounds is actually the finest means of controlling foxes there is. Firstly, just like nature it is selective and non-wounding. It emulates the way that wolves hunt their quarry, they target the old, week, ailing and injured animals. The hunted either lives or dies. This can not be done by shooting, trapping, or poison. It is the only method that can utilise a search and dispatch facility, that is, if a sheep farmer is experiencing a predation problem from a rouge fox, the hunt will turn up in the early hours of the morning, shortly after the offending fox has made its kill. They can then use the hounds to track and kill that actual fox. Not possible by any other means. Some of those other means are not so clean and clear cut as you might have been lead to believe. Fox shooting is rarely carried out by the professional, more often it is a pot shot, with an inadequate shot gun, rather than a high powered rifle, by a desperate farmer which will often maim, rather than kill, also you can not target a specific animal. Poisons are often used, but again do not target a specific animal, in fact they end up killing many other animals as well as the foxes. I have left, what I believe is the most horrid to last which is the trapping, there are any number of gruesome traps out on the market used to trap foxes, all of which maim, and leave the animal to a slow lingering death much more often than a clean kill. The cheapest and there for most frequent used is the snare, a fox which has caught a limb in a snare, will spend hours trying to gnaw his leg off to escape the trap. That is my thoughts on cruelty, below are the words of Lord Burns, Chairman of the Inquiry into Hunting with dogs.
House of Lords, 12th March 2001. (An independent Government Inquiry into hunting with dogs
“Naturally, people ask whether we were implying that hunting is cruel... the short answer to that question is no. There was not sufficient verifiable evidence or data safely to reach views about cruelty.” Lord Burns also concluded that: “insensibility and death will normally follow within a matter of seconds once the fox is caught.”
A published veterinary opinion on hunting with hounds stated: “The kill occurs as a swift, almost instantaneous, procedure made possible by the considerable power weight advantage the hound has over the fox.
The hunting with dog’s bill, in my humble opinion, is a complete shambles. Despite claims to the contrary, the Hunting Act never had the support of Parliament. In fact, more parliamentarians voted against it than for it. The Hunting Act was eventually driven through the House of Commons in a single day following a blatant breach of Parliamentary protocol. It was then forced past the House of Lords using the ultimate constitutional sledgehammer, the Parliament Acts, which was used for only the fourth time since 1949.
“Unfortunately the wording of the act is ambiguous” Professor Patrick Bateson, appearing as a witness for the League against Cruel Sports, against the Quantocks Staghounds, 22nd May 2007.
In many ways, the bill makes little sense, exemptions had to be included supposedly allowing "pest control" while cleansing the hunting process of any "killing for fun". Why pest control is somehow better for the fox/quarry animals concerned than an activity that has an element of sport involved is a mystery and leads to a twisted sense of logic. Terriers can be used on a fox underground to protect birds that are to be shot and yet, exactly the same process cannot be used to protect a farmer's livestock or to save a rare ground nesting bird. Dogs are permitted to kill a rabbit, but not a hare. Dogs are permitted to kill a rat, but not a mouse. Double standards or just madness?
Expert opinion on animal welfare and wildlife management does not favour a ban, and the Government’s own independent inquiry, the Burns Inquiry concluded that that there was no evidence that hunting was any less humane than alternative methods of control. Public opinion is opposed to a ban, and supports a regulatory, or licensing, system for hunting.
Again, in my humble opinion, a law promoted on the basis of prejudice, and justified by flawed and improper evidence has no place on our Statute Book.
I will leave you with these thought’s. The measure of a true democracy is tolerance: tolerance of minorities, and tolerance of activities that the majority might not support.
“The future of our society should be founded on Shared values of liberty and democracy and fairness.” Prime Minister Gorden Brown MP, 12th January 2007
Tally Ho
A very well written arguement Bluefish, coming from someone who admits being part of the hunting fraternity since a child.
Lord Burns hmmm.
Not exactly middle class eh?
Staggers states about it being a class thing and how can I not agree with him? Lord Burns comes from a long line of, shall we say upper class, and as he no doubt mixes with the same, of course would say some of the things he has about fox hunting.
Your above comments are trying in some way to justify the cruel killing of an animal, torn to shreds by a baying hound of dogs.
I have seen this on film and I can assure others that it is not as instant as some would have you believe, It is so distressing that I found a clip but refrained from posting it on here.
This is of course an emotive subject for many and I am not a friend of the fox at all. But the thought of trying to justify the ripping to pieces of a fox by dogs, as doing the countryside some kind of favour, is quite frankly laughable.
I doubt very much if the leading huntsman is a rubbish collector, or what about a train driver? He will no doubt be just like the mentioned Lord Burns...privileged and rich. That is how most people see these people.
Sorry Bluefish....I applaud your arguements and they certainly come from the heart, and you obviously know a fair bit about this but...it is still all about setting a bunch of dogs onto a defenseless animal, and then watching whilst they rip it to pieces. Sorry if that is sport then I certainly would never want to see it's return in todays modern society.
Funny how Lord Burns appears on the front of this..
For a man so knowledgeable and obviously wise to the worlds events, for him to say it is not cruel, goes to show how far he is in the pockets of the foxhunters.
Lord Burns hmmm.
Not exactly middle class eh?
Staggers states about it being a class thing and how can I not agree with him? Lord Burns comes from a long line of, shall we say upper class, and as he no doubt mixes with the same, of course would say some of the things he has about fox hunting.
Your above comments are trying in some way to justify the cruel killing of an animal, torn to shreds by a baying hound of dogs.
I have seen this on film and I can assure others that it is not as instant as some would have you believe, It is so distressing that I found a clip but refrained from posting it on here.
This is of course an emotive subject for many and I am not a friend of the fox at all. But the thought of trying to justify the ripping to pieces of a fox by dogs, as doing the countryside some kind of favour, is quite frankly laughable.
I doubt very much if the leading huntsman is a rubbish collector, or what about a train driver? He will no doubt be just like the mentioned Lord Burns...privileged and rich. That is how most people see these people.
Sorry Bluefish....I applaud your arguements and they certainly come from the heart, and you obviously know a fair bit about this but...it is still all about setting a bunch of dogs onto a defenseless animal, and then watching whilst they rip it to pieces. Sorry if that is sport then I certainly would never want to see it's return in todays modern society.
Funny how Lord Burns appears on the front of this..
For a man so knowledgeable and obviously wise to the worlds events, for him to say it is not cruel, goes to show how far he is in the pockets of the foxhunters.
Sex God
I freely admit that I see this as a class thing ,I'm happy to admit that a major part in my opposition to fox hunting is a desire to fuck with the gentry.I understand that people from all walks of life (for whatever reason -I suspect usually financial)support hunting,but my understanding is that membership of any hunt is by invitation and invitations are only handed out to the select few upon the opening of a place (by death or other) I'm happy to be corrected if I'm wrong...but as yet no one has addressed this.I do however feel that hunting with hounds is unnecessarily cruel and in no way as clean and instantaneous as we are told
Sex God
I never really expected to change any ones mind.
I have actually never been hunting on a horse, even if I liked horse riding I could not afford one, but there are many ways of following a hunt than on horse back.
I do however understand the dislike of some of the gentry, in fact have crossed swords with some of them on more that one occasion.
I can understand Kenty, you have seen a distressing video, but that is the exception to the rule. How ever you see it, it will always remain the least cruel method of control.
I will leave the thread for others to discuss as I would rattle on and boar people silly for hours.... :lol:
P.S. For the record I have no riches :sad: , or anything to gain from hunting
I have actually never been hunting on a horse, even if I liked horse riding I could not afford one, but there are many ways of following a hunt than on horse back.
I do however understand the dislike of some of the gentry, in fact have crossed swords with some of them on more that one occasion.
I can understand Kenty, you have seen a distressing video, but that is the exception to the rule. How ever you see it, it will always remain the least cruel method of control.
I will leave the thread for others to discuss as I would rattle on and boar people silly for hours.... :lol:
P.S. For the record I have no riches :sad: , or anything to gain from hunting
Well at least some element of truth has come out.....money.
Most do not care about the fox or the dogs or the horses or the drinkies afterwards, just the money to be made, and then use the countryside needs to cull them, as a justification.
I understand that a lot of people either make or did make money from this, but that does not sit well with many people.
When a whole industry dies like many have,people have to move on to hopefully something else, but this industry has not died, just harder than it was before to make money.
I think now it has been banned there will be no going back to the days of yesteryear.
Most do not care about the fox or the dogs or the horses or the drinkies afterwards, just the money to be made, and then use the countryside needs to cull them, as a justification.
I understand that a lot of people either make or did make money from this, but that does not sit well with many people.
When a whole industry dies like many have,people have to move on to hopefully something else, but this industry has not died, just harder than it was before to make money.
I think now it has been banned there will be no going back to the days of yesteryear.
I think class is a distraction on this one.
It's quite simple.
Do we sell spectator tickets for abbatoirs?
If I need to have my dog put down do we invite an audience?
If I need to get rid of vermin from my land do I turn it into an entertainment extravaganza?
I have no problem with people riding horses; I would make decent drag hunting courses a part of any rural leisure plan. I just don't understand why that respectable hobby of riding a horse over challenging terrain has to be linked to animal cruelty.
Fox hunting is cruel and inefficient; if you need to control foxes for good reason call a pest specialist, not fifty of your mates on horses after a drink.
It's quite simple.
Do we sell spectator tickets for abbatoirs?
If I need to have my dog put down do we invite an audience?
If I need to get rid of vermin from my land do I turn it into an entertainment extravaganza?
I have no problem with people riding horses; I would make decent drag hunting courses a part of any rural leisure plan. I just don't understand why that respectable hobby of riding a horse over challenging terrain has to be linked to animal cruelty.
Fox hunting is cruel and inefficient; if you need to control foxes for good reason call a pest specialist, not fifty of your mates on horses after a drink.
Sex God
Quote by flower411
I freely admit that I see this as a class thing ,I'm happy to admit that a major part in my opposition to fox hunting is a desire to fuck with the gentry.I understand that people from all walks of life (for whatever reason -I suspect usually financial)support hunting,but my understanding is that membership of any hunt is by invitation and invitations are only handed out to the select few upon the opening of a place (by death or other) I'm happy to be corrected if I'm wrong...but as yet no one has addressed this.I do however feel that hunting with hounds is unnecessarily cruel and in no way as clean and instantaneous as we are told
So your anti hunting stance is .....as you say "to fuck with the gentry"
To most people who take part in the hunt it`s just a minor annoyance that it`s been banned........but to many hard working people it`s an integral part of their income or a very welcome supplement ......they are the people you middle class marxists are "fucking" !!!
Only disagree with one part of this...... I'm not middle class
But if people lose/have lost money because the gentries horse riding no longer allows them to kill something as a by-product, then perhaps the ban is a good thing,seems a terrible reason for stopping any hobby "oh they don't let us kill stuff anymore"
Sex God
Quote by flower411
I freely admit that I see this as a class thing ,I'm happy to admit that a major part in my opposition to fox hunting is a desire to fuck with the gentry.I understand that people from all walks of life (for whatever reason -I suspect usually financial)support hunting,but my understanding is that membership of any hunt is by invitation and invitations are only handed out to the select few upon the opening of a place (by death or other) I'm happy to be corrected if I'm wrong...but as yet no one has addressed this.I do however feel that hunting with hounds is unnecessarily cruel and in no way as clean and instantaneous as we are told
So your anti hunting stance is .....as you say "to fuck with the gentry"
To most people who take part in the hunt it`s just a minor annoyance that it`s been banned........but to many hard working people it`s an integral part of their income or a very welcome supplement ......they are the people you middle class marxists are "fucking" !!!
Only disagree with one part of this...... I'm not middle class
But if people lose/have lost money because the gentries horse riding no longer allows them to kill something as a by-product, then perhaps the ban is a good thing,seems a terrible reason for stopping any hobby "oh they don't let us kill stuff anymore"
You are clearly confused about who you are fucking so it comes as no surprise that you`re unaware of your class !!!
And repeat
Sex God
Quote by awayman
Fox hunting is cruel and inefficient; if you need to control foxes for good reason call a pest specialist, not fifty of your mates on horses after a drink.
The huntsman is the pest control specialist. There is no one person better qualified.
As for money being made from cruelty of animals, we need look no further than our own food industry, I invite you to visit an indoor pig farm if you wish to see real cruelty.
