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British jobs for British workers? Warning political thread!
Quote by neilinleeds
If they have the funds to field candidates, then it`s a dead cert that the BNP will end up with members of parliament at the next election
Aided and abetted by right-wing tabloids stoking up the fires with thinly-veiled xenophobic rants that seek to conflate the freedom of movement of workers within the E.U. with spongers, scroungers, and illegal immigrants, and have little in the way of any factual detail whatsoever.
good point Neil.
Sex God
Nationalism is dangerous, however it may be disguised,
this campaign for british jobs for british workers makes me nervous (and I'm neither black ,asian,gay or jewish).Nationalism of any type tends to be the cloak worn by the far right and their shallow narrow minded spitefull mentality.I have no wish to see Mosely resurrected as a national hero,I have no wish to see black/brown shirted thugs walking the paths are far too dangerous to take even the first few steps down,you may find it too late to turn back.
P.S. Gaunty is a pig ignorant right wing bully boy who's sacking should be celebrated with a national holiday
this campaign for british jobs for british workers makes me nervous (and I'm neither black ,asian,gay or jewish).Nationalism of any type tends to be the cloak worn by the far right and their shallow narrow minded spitefull mentality.I have no wish to see Mosely resurrected as a national hero,I have no wish to see black/brown shirted thugs walking the paths are far too dangerous to take even the first few steps down,you may find it too late to turn back.
P.S. Gaunty is a pig ignorant right wing bully boy who's sacking should be celebrated with a national holiday
Sex God
Quote by Staggerlee_BB
Isnt it a giggle though that those people are blissfully unaware of their failings and are so vain they probably think this song is about them, dont they , dont they ,dont they ???
I think I resent that
:lol: :lol: and that post is funny cos we all know you dont :-)
Quote by Dodge_lover
Well lots of different views. IMHO if europeans come across here and can do a job better than local people at the same rate of pay then fine. But this situation is not quite that - a foriegn company outbid uk companies, how? Maybe because they pay thier employee's less - if that is the case that is wrong, they should have to pay the going rate for the country they are working in. Or maye the local companies where cr*p.
Moving outside of this, and to a more general point - like i said at the beginning, non-nationals should only get the job if they are better than nationals.
Dodge, hello there, am I slowly dragging all my chat buddies into the forums?!
Quote by kentswingers777
Funny as people who know me, know I am a bit supercilious. One of my many attributes.
supercilious adj 1 arrogantly disdainful or contemptuous. 2 self-importantly judgemental.
Hmmm.......... :shock:
I'm not sure you really mean this...Do you?:wink:
I was wondering why, despite the rhetoric of fair argument and freedom of speech some threads turned to shxt....
This just might be the answer..... :wink:
Sex God
nah its not racism Random, its just honest to goodness working folk, you know salt of the earth types who are down to earth and genuine at the end of the day. Just speaking as they find and calling a spade a spade, showing us all what freedoms are all about in their own real life perspective kinda way
Sex God
theres a system !? :shock:
Quote by Geordiecpl2001
Lucy, in this case, the contract was put out to competitive tendering, and the French owned oil giant at the centre of the row presumably found that an Italian company could do the work more cheaply than any of the British companies that bid, even though those foreign workers now employed have to be afforded the same minimal standards for pay and conditions that apply to home-grown British employees of British companies. The real problem is not foreign workers, it's that for whatever reason presumably the British companies that bid were unable to compete.
Sorry Neil, thats the top and bottom of the problem, there have been a couple of European Court rulings which mean that workers "posted" to other EU Countries only need to be paid the rate pertaining in their home country. So if the Italians are on £3 an hour at home thats what they get here. Hence why the foriegn companies can under cut British Companies, lower labour costs.
This will shortly not be so likely to happen as the weakness of the pound is meaning that it now much more expensive for foriegn companies to tender for work here.
John
But more attractive for British companies to tender for work elsewhere in Europe perhaps - if they can be bothered.
It should not be forgotten that there are many jobs in the UK performed by "foreigners" that many British workers wouldn't get out of bed for, but jobs that need to be done all the same.
Sex God
Quote by Dodge_lover
Well lots of different views. IMHO if europeans come across here and can do a job better than local people at the same rate of pay then fine. But this situation is not quite that - a foriegn company outbid uk companies, how? Maybe because they pay thier employee's less - if that is the case that is wrong, they should have to pay the going rate for the country they are working in. Or maye the local companies where cr*p.
Moving outside of this, and to a more general point - like i said at the beginning, non-nationals should only get the job if they are better than nationals.
Dodge_lover, Total / Irem have already said that this particular group of foreign workers have been employed at the same rates of pay as their British counterparts, and they were employed because they had the specific skillsets needed, not because they were cheap disposable labour. Whether that means that Union agreed pay-scales are adhered to across the board I don't know. S'pose there's a bit of wriggle room in what's been said. This particular contract was won over a year ago when construction was still booming, and British workers had jobs aplenty on the site. There are still 1000+ British workers employed there, and the claims along the lines that British workers have been discriminated against, undercut, or otherwise prevented from bidding don't stand up to scrutiny, as far as I'm able to tell.
More generally, and this goes back to what Geordiecpl was saying too, which I can't comment on specifically cos I don't know what judgements John was referring to, the Posted Workers Directive says that when companies bring in their own workers, it must be only for the lifetime of the contract, and the standards of pay and conditions applicable are those of the host nation. i.e. Foreign companies who bring their workers to the UK have to pay minimum wage at the very least. I'm sure there are grey areas and loopholes aplenty, but the intent is that foreign contractors are specifically prevented as far as possible from undercutting host nation workers.
Neil x x x ;)
Such is peoples " outrage " over this, it could end up being a protest that spreads across the whole country.
For all those that feel snug in their jobs, remember there are plenty out there, ready to take yours. How ironic that a prediction of 4 million British workers could be on the dole by September.
How I wish that this would bring down the " European big wigs ", and then we could go back to how it was " supposed " to be in 1973. A body that enabled all of Europe to TRADE as one. NOT to have our laws and our very own identity taken away, by unelected suits.
For all those that feel snug in their jobs, remember there are plenty out there, ready to take yours. How ironic that a prediction of 4 million British workers could be on the dole by September.
How I wish that this would bring down the " European big wigs ", and then we could go back to how it was " supposed " to be in 1973. A body that enabled all of Europe to TRADE as one. NOT to have our laws and our very own identity taken away, by unelected suits.
Can you remember the adverts to buy British beef and lamb etc.
Mike was telling me that they are now not allowed to be shown, as it breaks some new rules or something like that, now we are in Europe.
Not sure what what thats all about really, but does not sound right.
I always try to support local suppliers and buy British if at all possible, but when you live rural, we all have to support one another!
In edit, does not follow on from the original post, sorry kenty!
Mike was telling me that they are now not allowed to be shown, as it breaks some new rules or something like that, now we are in Europe.
Not sure what what thats all about really, but does not sound right.
I always try to support local suppliers and buy British if at all possible, but when you live rural, we all have to support one another!
In edit, does not follow on from the original post, sorry kenty!
Quote by Lucyandmike7
Can you remember the adverts to buy British beef and lamb etc.
Mike was telling me that they are now not allowed to be shown, as it breaks some new rules or something like that, now we are in Europe.
Not sure what what thats all about really, but does not sound right.
I always try to support local suppliers and buy British if at all possible, but when you live rural, we all have to support one another!
In edit, does not follow on from the original post, sorry kenty!
Not a problem Lucy.
Forums are like everyday discussions, they never stay on track. How many times have people argued over something, for the arguement to escalate into something completly " off topic "?.
My main arguement here is.... IF there are plenty of British workers available to do the job, which is seems there is, why bus in loads of people from different countries?
I do not care what anyone says it is about money, and British workers seem to be getting paid more than their European counterparts.
Can anyone in " the know " here, explain to me how it is cheaper, and more beneficial to bring in workers from other countries, with all that entails, ahead of British workers? How can that possibly be financially viable IF all workers are paid the same rate?
If this is not sorted in some way, it will spread nation wide, and even more Brits will lose their jobs. Sorry but Brown had it right at the start../;.
British jobs FOR British workers........period.
If saying that means to others I am " racist " then so be it, I must be then. :shock: But then again so is our own Prime Minister.......Listen carefully to this pile of lies BEFORE others judge me! Listen VERY carefully to the end of this clip.
Sex God
Saying that doesn't make you racist, it makes you unrealistic and uninformed.
Just the statement 'I don't care what anyone else says' and then quoting the articles that suit your point demonstrates that. This company and any other have a simple reason why they use staff from whatever source they wish to from wherever they wish , and that reason is - because they can. You are right it is about money, all business is about money and running your company to produce a profit in the most efficient way you can. This applies to every business world wide and trying to pretend that we can somehow insulate our workforce from the global economy is foolhardy and wrong. Just how do you define what a "British job" is? Is it a job generated by a wholly or majority owned British company because if that is the case you'll struggle to keep half our workforce in work, or is it that companies investing on our shores-no matter what their ownership-are compelled to employ only British workers? If that's the criteria then similarly you will see millions of British jobs disappear in a cloud of retreating foreign company dust.
We have seen this kind of blinkered insistence and denial of reality before many times. One particular example that springs to mind is the print and electrical unions dispute of the eighties and nineties. The printers had been paid unbelievable amounts of money for many years because they were maintaining a closed shop and their skills were essential in a time sensitive pressured industry. Faced with technology that meant that skill was no longer relevant the printers were offered repeatedly the chance to retrain. The unions however steadfastly refused to accept that the technology existed and whilst they set about trying to bring their own industry to its knees the electricians union realised that their members could benefit and helped to train some of their members to do the jobs. Depending on your point of view this was either a gross affront to trade union solidarity or a union adjusting to an irrefutable reality and doing its best to protect its members interests. I know which I subscribe to.
I am all for loading the decks in favor of our workers, I am a worker myself, but we have to be flexible in our view of what is fair in the face of reality. Otherwise we are just babies stamping our feet.
Just the statement 'I don't care what anyone else says' and then quoting the articles that suit your point demonstrates that. This company and any other have a simple reason why they use staff from whatever source they wish to from wherever they wish , and that reason is - because they can. You are right it is about money, all business is about money and running your company to produce a profit in the most efficient way you can. This applies to every business world wide and trying to pretend that we can somehow insulate our workforce from the global economy is foolhardy and wrong. Just how do you define what a "British job" is? Is it a job generated by a wholly or majority owned British company because if that is the case you'll struggle to keep half our workforce in work, or is it that companies investing on our shores-no matter what their ownership-are compelled to employ only British workers? If that's the criteria then similarly you will see millions of British jobs disappear in a cloud of retreating foreign company dust.
We have seen this kind of blinkered insistence and denial of reality before many times. One particular example that springs to mind is the print and electrical unions dispute of the eighties and nineties. The printers had been paid unbelievable amounts of money for many years because they were maintaining a closed shop and their skills were essential in a time sensitive pressured industry. Faced with technology that meant that skill was no longer relevant the printers were offered repeatedly the chance to retrain. The unions however steadfastly refused to accept that the technology existed and whilst they set about trying to bring their own industry to its knees the electricians union realised that their members could benefit and helped to train some of their members to do the jobs. Depending on your point of view this was either a gross affront to trade union solidarity or a union adjusting to an irrefutable reality and doing its best to protect its members interests. I know which I subscribe to.
I am all for loading the decks in favor of our workers, I am a worker myself, but we have to be flexible in our view of what is fair in the face of reality. Otherwise we are just babies stamping our feet.
For our sins we now live in a world wide free market economy, we eat green beans grown in Africa, furnish our houses with stuff made in Poland and have friends on the other side of the planet working in jobs that in all honesty locals could do. All these things are governed by market forces and those market forces are what we the average British citizen wants.
If you are not happy with what total are doing boycott them, that way the market will force them to do things differently.
What we have now is a direct consequence of globalisation, some things we like, like cheap airfares to far off places and some we don’t like increased global pollution.
If you are not happy with what total are doing boycott them, that way the market will force them to do things differently.
What we have now is a direct consequence of globalisation, some things we like, like cheap airfares to far off places and some we don’t like increased global pollution.
Quote by Silk and Big G
Saying that doesn't make you racist, it makes you unrealistic and uninformed.
Just the statement 'I don't care what anyone else says' and then quoting the articles that suit your point demonstrates that. This company and any other have a simple reason why they use staff from whatever source they wish to from wherever they wish , and that reason is - because they can. You are right it is about money, all business is about money and running your company to produce a profit in the most efficient way you can. This applies to every business world wide and trying to pretend that we can somehow insulate our workforce from the global economy is foolhardy and wrong. Just how do you define what a "British job" is? Is it a job generated by a wholly or majority owned British company because if that is the case you'll struggle to keep half our workforce in work, or is it that companies investing on our shores-no matter what their ownership-are compelled to employ only British workers? If that's the criteria then similarly you will see millions of British jobs disappear in a cloud of retreating foreign company dust.
We have seen this kind of blinkered insistence and denial of reality before many times. One particular example that springs to mind is the print and electrical unions dispute of the eighties and nineties. The printers had been paid unbelievable amounts of money for many years because they were maintaining a closed shop and their skills were essential in a time sensitive pressured industry. Faced with technology that meant that skill was no longer relevant the printers were offered repeatedly the chance to retrain. The unions however steadfastly refused to accept that the technology existed and whilst they set about trying to bring their own industry to its knees the electricians union realised that their members could benefit and helped to train some of their members to do the jobs. Depending on your point of view this was either a gross affront to trade union solidarity or a union adjusting to an irrefutable reality and doing its best to protect its members interests. I know which I subscribe to.
I am all for loading the decks in favor of our workers, I am a worker myself, but we have to be flexible in our view of what is fair in the face of reality. Otherwise we are just babies stamping our feet.
Your entitled to your opinion on that point.
I am a printer, have been all my working life. It is true that the printers unions decemated the industry in the 70's through strike action, and yes it is true the printers ( on the newspapers I may add ), were paid vast sums of money but..... the main problem was with Murdoch in the end.
He wanted to take the papers he printed away from the Victorian buildings in Fleet Street, and move it to a nice new site in Wapping.
He knew only too well the unions would be having none of it, but he by then did not need the printers, only the elctricians. My uncle was one of those guys " forced " to go on strike. He wanted to move to Wapping as he had just moved to Rotherhithe.
We all know what happened with that strike, and the way it turned nasty. That was exactly what Murdoch wanted, and he got his wish. He sacked all the staff and employed a much fewer number to operate his machines. That is fair enough.
What we have now is massive ammounts of people working over here, be it on a work permit, or a student visa. I have a South African Asian working here, who came over on a student visa, but has not done a days work to do with that student visa, in over four years.
This country cannot sustain the massive ammounts we have here, plus the ones still to come.
Did you not look at the Prime Minister saying that absurd comment? Obviously in your opinion he was also " unrealistic and uninformed "? If that is the case maybe you should join a party and become PM.
In these tough times myself and millions of others want to see British people at the front of the line, not be second class citizens, in our own country. It is funny that so many people seem not to have any problem with the millions here, but would take a different line I bet, if one of them was to land your job. Going to the dole office is NOT a nice experience at all.
Maybe it's something to do with the work ethic 
For example, the Poles are reputed to work like Trojans in gratitude for the employment which places the contractor in a better position to finish the job on time and on budget - perhaps even with a bonus for completing early. If they are being paid the Sterling rate for the job, they are being very well paid indeed over and above their expectations in Poland.
With some other nationalities, the work ethic just isn't there and they couldn't care a toss about finishing the job; indeed, their ethic is one of dragging it out as long as they can to screw the boss.
Protectionism can be understood, but it usually involves double standards when it comes down to the jobs the Brit's don't like.
For example, the Poles are reputed to work like Trojans in gratitude for the employment which places the contractor in a better position to finish the job on time and on budget - perhaps even with a bonus for completing early. If they are being paid the Sterling rate for the job, they are being very well paid indeed over and above their expectations in Poland.
With some other nationalities, the work ethic just isn't there and they couldn't care a toss about finishing the job; indeed, their ethic is one of dragging it out as long as they can to screw the boss.
Protectionism can be understood, but it usually involves double standards when it comes down to the jobs the Brit's don't like.
Quote by kentswingers777
I have a South African Asian working here, who came over on a student visa, but has not done a days work to do with that student visa, in over four years.
I have a question.
What is your viewpoint of the above?
Are you of the opinion of "fair play to him/her, the system is there to be abused"? or do you feel what that person is doing is wrong?
It's ok to demand British jobs for British workers, at the end of the day we put into the "system" and then expect to take out of it, but as much as you demand that, skilled British workers will not want to work for minimum wage!
I spent years learning my skills, I've paid for them through sweat and tears and at the moment I work for a decent wage. Should I have to work for an hour, then I would resent that! An employer would want me to use my hard earned skills and not pay the going rate! They wouldn't expect me to half the skills I use because I'm on half pay I can't live on an hour, and it's not a case of living beyond my means, with the cost of living these days.
You employ British trained workers and they expect to be paid a specific amount for their skills, in turn the manufacturer has to up the selling price for their goods and lose competitiveness, so they sell/export less.
As for the "Buy British" campaigns, whether the ads are discriminatory or not, doesn't stop individuals from making a stand and making sure they support the economy by hunting out British Products and are prepared to pay for them. Imports are cheaper and more convenient so people buy more of them.
Why do you need an advert to tell you to do it?
Instead of turning against immigrants and using them as an easy excuse ... look at your own habits, looking where your buying power is! How do you spend your pound? Imported and pay less or British and pay more?
Change your outlook, your habits and make a difference!
I spent years learning my skills, I've paid for them through sweat and tears and at the moment I work for a decent wage. Should I have to work for an hour, then I would resent that! An employer would want me to use my hard earned skills and not pay the going rate! They wouldn't expect me to half the skills I use because I'm on half pay
I can't live on an hour, and it's not a case of living beyond my means, with the cost of living these days.You employ British trained workers and they expect to be paid a specific amount for their skills, in turn the manufacturer has to up the selling price for their goods and lose competitiveness, so they sell/export less.
As for the "Buy British" campaigns, whether the ads are discriminatory or not, doesn't stop individuals from making a stand and making sure they support the economy by hunting out British Products and are prepared to pay for them. Imports are cheaper and more convenient so people buy more of them.
Why do you need an advert to tell you to do it?
Instead of turning against immigrants and using them as an easy excuse ... look at your own habits, looking where your buying power is! How do you spend your pound? Imported and pay less or British and pay more?
Change your outlook, your habits and make a difference!
Quote by essex34m
I have a South African Asian working here, who came over on a student visa, but has not done a days work to do with that student visa, in over four years.
I have a question.
What is your viewpoint of the above?
Are you of the opinion of "fair play to him/her, the system is there to be abused"? or do you feel what that person is doing is wrong?
I think it is wrong. He admits he " conned " the system. Had he been European he would have got into the UK, but being South African he would have had no chance.
For the record his other half is Polish, she does not work. He has just had twins, her older Daughter did not speak any English when she come here a year ago, but was put into an English speaking school. He gets the minimum wage here, and he then claims for his other half, her Daughter and his twin boys.
Also one of them is always either at the Doctors or the hospital. They admit they are lucky, and also admit they have got much much more out of our system than they will ever be able to put back in.
He also tells me they know of many others who have done, and are doing the same thing.
You tell me......is that fair?
Sex God
Quote by kentswingers777
I have a South African Asian working here, who came over on a student visa, but has not done a days work to do with that student visa, in over four years.
I have a question.
What is your viewpoint of the above?
Are you of the opinion of "fair play to him/her, the system is there to be abused"? or do you feel what that person is doing is wrong?
I think it is wrong. He admits he " conned " the system. Had he been European he would have got into the UK, but being South African he would have had no chance.
For the record his other half is Polish, she does not work. He has just had twins, her older Daughter did not speak any English when she come here a year ago, but was put into an English speaking school. He gets the minimum wage here, and he then claims for his other half, her Daughter and his twin boys.
Also one of them is always either at the Doctors or the hospital. They admit they are lucky, and also admit they have got much much more out of our system than they will ever be able to put back in.
He also tells me they know of many others who have done, and are doing the same thing.
You tell me......is that fair?
Kent, I work with children. Largely but not exclusively British nationals. There are many kids I come in contact with whose parents do not work and never have worked. They exist solely on state benefits. When you speak to some, neither did their grandparents work.
Thankfully for me, if I need healthcare or unemployment benefit, I live in a country that provides this. I work hard, I pay my taxes. There are probably people who disproportionately reap the benefits of this system. They are not exclusively immigrants and, whatever I think about them, I would still rather live in a welfare state than without one.
But of course, those who have travelled here - legally or illegally - are easy scapegoats: they make good tabloid headline fodder and prevent us from tackling some of the other more damaging issues that need addressing in our society.
Is it naive to assume that those who support the "british jobs for british workers" live by the creed and as a result:
Boycott football matches.
Refuse to watch dancing on ice.
Only use supermarkets,power suppliers and other large organisations listed on the Uk stock exchange.
Only buy goods manufactured in Britain.
Drive a car manufctured in Britaun.
Holiday in the UK.
While we are at it wouldnt the phrase UK jobs for Uk workers be slightly more inclusive or do I have to hold a grudge against the paddys?
Actually now I think on it how about european jobs for european workers.
We could extend it even further and say food and water for all the people in the world but then I might be labelled a wooly liberal marxist.
Seems to me some human beings simply need somebody to hate and blame. Foreigners are an easy target but the hate list for some people is endless. Having said that I believe our greed obsessed society is bound to lead to an awful lot of hate. But then thats capitalism for ya.
Boycott football matches.
Refuse to watch dancing on ice.
Only use supermarkets,power suppliers and other large organisations listed on the Uk stock exchange.
Only buy goods manufactured in Britain.
Drive a car manufctured in Britaun.
Holiday in the UK.
While we are at it wouldnt the phrase UK jobs for Uk workers be slightly more inclusive or do I have to hold a grudge against the paddys?
Actually now I think on it how about european jobs for european workers.
We could extend it even further and say food and water for all the people in the world but then I might be labelled a wooly liberal marxist.
Seems to me some human beings simply need somebody to hate and blame. Foreigners are an easy target but the hate list for some people is endless. Having said that I believe our greed obsessed society is bound to lead to an awful lot of hate. But then thats capitalism for ya.
Sorry 777 I am confused, nothing new there. 
You have said many a time that you would love to leave this country and live abroad.
Would that be a country that spoke English?
If not would it be a country that before you went you would learn the language fluently before you arrived?
Would you take enough money to sustain yours and your family lifestyle there?.
Or would you or one of yours like to find work there?
Sorry hope you can see what is causing my confusion.
You have said many a time that you would love to leave this country and live abroad.
Would that be a country that spoke English?
If not would it be a country that before you went you would learn the language fluently before you arrived?
Would you take enough money to sustain yours and your family lifestyle there?.
Or would you or one of yours like to find work there?
Sorry hope you can see what is causing my confusion.
Quote by kentswingers777
In these tough times myself and millions of others want to see British people at the front of the line,
Maybe some of them should become social workers then. One seventh of social work posts are vacant. Seven authorities have a third of posts vacant - plenty of jobs there. But no one wants to do the jobs because they are vilified by the same rags that are now attacking foreign workers. Sometimes it's best to realise that some newspapers stir up shit for their own financial gain rather than for the public good.
Sex God
Quote by Theladyisaminx
Sorry 777 I am confused, nothing new there.
You have said many a time that you would love to leave this country and live abroad.
Would that be a country that spoke English?
If not would it be a country that before you went you would learn the language fluently before you arrived?
Would you take enough money to sustain yours and your family lifestyle there?.
Or would you or one of yours like to find work there?
Sorry hope you can see what is causing my confusion.
:thumbup: Good points well made Minx!
