British jobs for British workers? Warning political thread!

4 Feb 2009

Quote by Theladyisaminx
It is so frustrating to have a debate with someone that puts cotton wool in their ears and blinkers over their eys each time you have something constructive to say.
Or is it I talk sense and you can not respond to that?
777 I have added some what I believe to be contructive comments but you always seems to slip past them. I was hoping for some response at least even if it was to say minx you talk bollox which is your normal reaction

Sorry Minxy but....you asked me direct questions, for which I replied. As you did not comment on that, that is why I made the comment. :P

4 Feb 2009

Quote by neilinleeds
Thank you Angel. That was indeed exactly the point I was driving at. Pedant? Moi? ;)
Kent, you mentioned schools were none of the children speaks English earlier. You've now named schools where English is spoken primarily as a second language. That's not at all the same thing is it? My admin manager speaks English as a second language, seeing as how she's from Bangladesh, but trust me, she speaks English better than me. ((( or should that be better than I? Could never get that one right. :lol: )))
I've downloaded your list, and I'll take it at face value. Nearly all the schools in that list as far as I can tell are primaries and nurseries? Children of that age soak up language like sponges, as your own experience with your kids would probably tell you, so while they may well primarily speak Urdu or Bengali or Polish or whatever at home, that does not necessarily mean that they lack functional fluency in English at school. Given a little input as they mingle with other kids in an environment where English most certainly is the first language used, they will become fluent in English all too rapidly. Certainly, by the time they are teens at secondary, this supposed language barrier that is such a bar to integration allegedly, and is sooooo detrimental to native British English speaking kids, has all but disappeared.
Your perceived problem Kent, is exactly that. A perceived problem. It's not a problem for the kids in these schools you're talking about, because all too often they rise above the challenges put in their way, and succeed in spite of them. Quite often the real bar to integration is, in part, the petty prejudices and ill-informed attitudes of others.
Neil x x x ;)

Your quite right Neil it is NOT a problem for the kids but.....I bet it is a massive problem for the teachers, who have to try and communicate with kids who cannot speak English. Also a massive problem for the local authorities who ( by European law )HAVE to take these kids on board.
I know somebody that used to work in a pre-school. They HAD to keep two child places back for immigrant children. So if a British person in that area wanted to put their kid into that pre-school, and there was only two places left, they would have had to turn that child down. Now that is NOT newspapers scares but a REAL situation, which is accepted as happening in most schools and pre-schools. But of course that would be ok then ?
I have not got a problem with people coming here IF jobs are there, but to put these people above the Brits who live here is wrong...my opinion. That is what is happening though way too often. No wonder so many are sighing.
People can mock all they like but teachers and doctors, and all manner of others, are having massive problems coping, with insufficient funding and staff, to cope with the increased numbers.

4 Feb 2009

Quote by GnV
Maybe it's something to do with the work ethic
For example, the Poles are reputed to work like Trojans in gratitude for the employment which places the contractor in a better position to finish the job on time and on budget - perhaps even with a bonus for completing early. If they are being paid the Sterling rate for the job, they are being very well paid indeed over and above their expectations in Poland.
With some other nationalities, the work ethic just isn't there and they couldn't care a toss about finishing the job; indeed, their ethic is one of dragging it out as long as they can to screw the boss.
Protectionism can be understood, but it usually involves double standards when it comes down to the jobs the Brit's don't like.

It's not that often I agree with you, but on this occasion... whole heartedly.
What is the matter with everyone??? a house needs to be built, you have 10 (for example) polish workers willing and able to do the job, they're graft their arses off and crack on with it, they work because they want to, OR take same amount of english workers, have 10 tea breaks a day, 2 with bacon butties, half heartedly whip the bricks up, wipe the sweat from their bum cracks and knock off early. I've seen it with my own eyes - it happens.
Flame me if you want, I'm past caring, why say 'British jobs for British workers' when some British workers are hippy lazy and shite don't really want to do what they're doing? cowboy jobs left right and centre??
A job needs doing? makes no odds what their nationality, just get it done.
AND what if that statement worked the other way? Foreign jobs for foreign workers only?? I know loads of men who work away in foreign waters, away at sea, men who work in Dubai.. so what then? all our men are then unemployed??

4 Feb 2009

Quote by kentswingers777
Your quite right Neil it is NOT a problem for the kids but.....I bet it is a massive problem for the teachers, who have to try and communicate with kids who cannot speak English. Also a massive problem for the local authorities who ( by European law )HAVE to take these kids on board.

Perhaps this article might be of interest to you Knty, quoting the headmaster of one such school. He has horrible taste in jackets, but his dress sense isn't the issue here. I wonder whether you'll have any reply to this post? wink

4 Feb 2009

Quote by Angel Chat
Your quite right Neil it is NOT a problem for the kids but.....I bet it is a massive problem for the teachers, who have to try and communicate with kids who cannot speak English. Also a massive problem for the local authorities who ( by European law )HAVE to take these kids on board.

Perhaps this article might be of interest to you Knty, quoting the headmaster of one such school. He has horrible taste in jackets, but his dress sense isn't the issue here. I wonder whether you'll have any reply to this post? wink

:giggle: Might help if I include the link rolleyes

4 Feb 2009

Quote by Angel Chat
:giggle: Might help if I include the link

Good save Angel! I briefly considered telling you privately that you'd borked your post, but then I though, why bother? dunno

:P Don't worry though, I don't think anyone noticed.
bolt

Neil x x x ;)

4 Feb 2009

Quote by Dirtygirly

I gave you my answers but....seemed all for nothing, as I notice you did not even acknowledge my answers or.....were my answers not to your liking?

Not wishing to get into a political debate as I don't even know what sort of green, leftie, scarf knitting, sandal wearing, yoghurt eating, inbetweeny fence sitter I am but is that not a little bit of pot, kettle and black since you do it so often?! dunno

That was a serious question...
:mrgreen:
And the fact that I've had no response to my question pretty much answers it without any effort from you Mr Kent!
I thank you! I'm here all week! :mrgreen:

4 Feb 2009

Quote by kentswingers777
It is so frustrating to have a debate with someone that puts cotton wool in their ears and blinkers over their eys each time you have something constructive to say.
Or is it I talk sense and you can not respond to that?
777 I have added some what I believe to be contructive comments but you always seems to slip past them. I was hoping for some response at least even if it was to say minx you talk bollox which is your normal reaction

Sorry Minxy but....you asked me direct questions, for which I replied. As you did not comment on that, that is why I made the comment. :P

Quote by Theladyisaminx
When this country has massive unemployment, and the very people who are saying....yeah it's fine to have all these workers over here, and then the British people spend every other week signing on,let's see if they have the same care free Liberal attitudes they do now.
Is everyone ok with possibly another four million immigrant workers coming here? Is everyone ok with schools in this country not having one single child there speaking English?
Is everyone ok with destitute asylam seekers ( apparently ) getting priority over Brits on housing and jobs?
Labour have certainly done their homework, and created some lovely social problems, which apparently a lot seem to think is fine. Well the Liberals I hope it does not bit ya up your bum, in the future.

What I hope I can see happening in a lot of cases is people with have to think of other ways to earn a living, I took stock years ago as I could see this happening, how could I see it happening because I worked for a very large organisation for 18 years. When I started I felt valued as part of a team, we were given incentives as a reward for long term services it was a family owned business and I felt part of that family.
Over the years they sold out to money making penny pinching big waged bods who had no consideration for their employees, they cut all incentive to nothing. All perks for long term employees were striped.
I decided then 10 years ago to bail out and go alone work for myself as then I am accountable to myself, I don’t blame anyone if we can’t pay the mortgage as I only have myself to blame, but then I don’t plan just for today I plan ahead on the longer future. It isn’t an easy option but one that I love the challenge of, it gives me a greater feeling of self achievement.
So going back to my first point what I hope I can see happening, hopefully smaller businesses appearing that offer good services that start to employ people and make them feel valued.
But sadly what I see happening is nothing as it is easier to just sit and blame others.
But then I am possibly label as a left winging liberal by some without having any ability to think.
O I do live in my own ideal fluffy world,if only hey!
Sorry to confuse you 777 but I was refering to this post of mine. :wink:

4 Feb 2009

Sorry Kenty but I am beginning to think that your hero worship of Mr Gaunt has clouded your vision. You don't have to become him, just because you like him. He was paid to be controversial and ruffle feathers - it is not like that in the real world. It seems that you are wanting to become Jon Gaunt looking for controversial subjects to air to become Swinging Heavens very own Shock Jock.
Please don't take offence - I have watched your posts for a long time and it seems that recently you have been trying to become Mr Gaunt himself and confusing his Broadcasting persona with the the real world (if this place can be described as the real world!!).
Incidentally British jobs for British people has no relevance in this dispute and if one single European citizen is deprived work on account of racial requirements then we will all be in big trouble. This is just about protectionism and it is a natural (and very wrong) reaction to depression and recession that has been seen in many parts of the world at times of recession over the last 100 years or so. Metaphorically speaking it is drawing in to your home and protecting yourself when in fact what is needed in Internationalism.
We are knackered in this country and very much poorer in every way by not being a full part of Europe. Our bigotted fears are well known across the Continent and the label 'Little Englander' is because of our irrational fear of Johnny Foreigner.

4 Feb 2009

Quote by kentswingers777
Kewl down and realise that the comments should be viewed with the derision they deserve. Selective , over generalised uninformed with statistics plucked at best completely out of context and at worst out of thin air. Opinions to which anyone is entitled of course they are, but are they worth considering or taking seriously - the evidence so far suggests they are not . People who argue in this way actually believe they are completely right, and the most human emotion you are likely to engender from them in argument is pity - they simply cannot concieve of actually taking anything away from a discussion that they didnt bring with them.
Try not to get angry it is these people that lose out in the end. They live in a dark narrow corridor of a world that limits their experience and enjoyment more than they can ever all means if it amuses you then try to get through to them, I know i find it comical to do so now and then, but dont get angry or frustrated if you cant - there are some things that are constants in this world and the world needs every shade of intelligence to function.

I guess that was aimed at me.....maybe I am being paranoid amongst all the other things, YOU seem to think I am.
Your not a social worker are you? confused

:

Aimed ? No. Was I being rude, if I offended you please forgive me. Social worker? No. I have met a few in my lifetime though.
Peace

4 Feb 2009

Personally I fully support this action. Looking back throughout history, real positive change has only come from the bottom up, when working people who have nothing to sell but their labour, realise that they can use that power to force the hand of those with disproportionate power at the top, who only care about naked profit and not people.
It's insidious in my opinion to suggest that this is driven by petty nationalism. The likes of the BNP are trying to exploit it to further their own aims, and having attended the massive march in London in support of Gaza last month, their reporting of it, and the massive difference in the reality opened my eyes to the sort of disgusting racism and dividing tactics that they will use.
Sorry I'm preaching I know, but I feel very strongly about this!

4 Feb 2009

Quote by flower411
Has it ever occured to you that people will tell you stuff like this just for the entertainment value of watching you blow a gasket :giggle:

:lol: :lol: :lol:

Blaaahdiie lefty swingers !!

4 Feb 2009

Quote by Silk and Big G

Has it ever occured to you that people will tell you stuff like this just for the entertainment value of watching you blow a gasket :giggle:

:lol: :lol: :lol:

Blaaahdiie lefty swingers !!
"You randy Scouse git!" :lol:

4 Feb 2009

Quote by flower411

I know somebody that used to work in a pre-school. They HAD to keep two child places back for immigrant children. So if a British person in that area wanted to put their kid into that pre-school, and there was only two places left, they would have had to turn that child down. Now that is NOT newspapers scares but a REAL situation, which is accepted as happening in most schools and pre-schools. But of course that would be ok then ?

Has it ever occured to you that people will tell you stuff like this just for the entertainment value of watching you blow a gasket :giggle:
:laughabove: :laughabove: :laughabove: :laughabove:
Cripes ... what happens if there are three immigrant children?
There's a school locally that have to keep a percentage of places for white kids despite the community having a lower percentage of white kids! It cuts both ways you know!

4 Feb 2009

Quote by kentswingers777
Your quite right Neil it is NOT a problem for the kids but.....I bet it is a massive problem for the teachers, who have to try and communicate with kids who cannot speak English. Also a massive problem for the local authorities who ( by European law )HAVE to take these kids on board.
Nope, not a problem at all - as Neil said, children soak up language like a sponge. They hear it and interact with native English speakers, picking it up very quickly.
I know somebody that used to work in a pre-school. They HAD to keep two child places back for immigrant children. So if a British person in that area wanted to put their kid into that pre-school, and there was only two places left, they would have had to turn that child down. Now that is NOT newspapers scares but a REAL situation, which is accepted as happening in most schools and pre-schools. But of course that would be ok then ?
Load of rubbish - if a school (or pre-school) has a place available and someone applies, that place has to be offered.
People can mock all they like but teachers and doctors, and all manner of others, are having massive problems coping, with insufficient funding and staff, to cope with the increased numbers.

There's insufficient funding regardless of the nationality of the children in schools.

4 Feb 2009

Quote by Calista

I know somebody that used to work in a pre-school. They HAD to keep two child places back for immigrant children. So if a British person in that area wanted to put their kid into that pre-school, and there was only two places left, they would have had to turn that child down. Now that is NOT newspapers scares but a REAL situation, which is accepted as happening in most schools and pre-schools. But of course that would be ok then ?

Has it ever occured to you that people will tell you stuff like this just for the entertainment value of watching you blow a gasket :giggle:
:laughabove: :laughabove: :laughabove: :laughabove:
Cripes ... what happens if there are three immigrant children?
There's a school locally that have to keep a percentage of places for white kids despite the community having a lower percentage of white kids! It cuts both ways you know!
Thank you, you rarely hear that sort of thing in the so called "free press" we have in this country though!

4 Feb 2009

Interesting aside in one of the papers today;
Why don't we ditch the present incumbants of the Palace of Westminster and bring in some foriegn natioanls who will presumably do the job better and cheaper??
All in favour say Aye!!!!
John

4 Feb 2009

Quote by flower411
Maybe it's something to do with the work ethic
For example, the Poles are reputed to work like Trojans in gratitude for the employment which places the contractor in a better position to finish the job on time and on budget - perhaps even with a bonus for completing early. If they are being paid the Sterling rate for the job, they are being very well paid indeed over and above their expectations in Poland.
With some other nationalities, the work ethic just isn't there and they couldn't care a toss about finishing the job; indeed, their ethic is one of dragging it out as long as they can to screw the boss.
Protectionism can be understood, but it usually involves double standards when it comes down to the jobs the Brit's don't like.

It's not that often I agree with you, but on this occasion... whole heartedly.
What is the matter with everyone??? a house needs to be built, you have 10 (for example) polish workers willing and able to do the job, they're graft their arses off and crack on with it, they work because they want to, OR take same amount of english workers, have 10 tea breaks a day, 2 with bacon butties, half heartedly whip the bricks up, wipe the sweat from their bum cracks and knock off early. I've seen it with my own eyes - it happens.
Flame me if you want, I'm past caring, why say 'British jobs for British workers' when some British workers are hippy lazy and shite don't really want to do what they're doing? cowboy jobs left right and centre??
A job needs doing? makes no odds what their nationality, just get it done.
AND what if that statement worked the other way? Foreign jobs for foreign workers only?? I know loads of men who work away in foreign waters, away at sea, men who work in Dubai.. so what then? all our men are then unemployed??
It`ll be interesting to see if 777 responds to you jaymar..he seems to respond to your posts despite the fact that he has studiously ignored GnV`s point and other replies made rolleyes

now now... smackbottom

4 Feb 2009

Quote by Silk and Big G

Has it ever occured to you that people will tell you stuff like this just for the entertainment value of watching you blow a gasket :giggle:

:lol: :lol: :lol:

Blaaahdiie lefty swingers !!
:laughabove: :laughabove: :laughabove: :laughabove: :laughabove:
Sorry kent, but I have to laugh.... remember the time i called you Alf Garnett and you shat a kitten out!!!
validation at last !!!.....
no offence like!!! wink

4 Feb 2009

Quote by jaymar
Maybe it's something to do with the work ethic
For example, the Poles are reputed to work like Trojans in gratitude for the employment which places the contractor in a better position to finish the job on time and on budget - perhaps even with a bonus for completing early. If they are being paid the Sterling rate for the job, they are being very well paid indeed over and above their expectations in Poland.
With some other nationalities, the work ethic just isn't there and they couldn't care a toss about finishing the job; indeed, their ethic is one of dragging it out as long as they can to screw the boss.
Protectionism can be understood, but it usually involves double standards when it comes down to the jobs the Brit's don't like.

It's not that often I agree with you, but on this occasion... whole heartedly.
What is the matter with everyone??? a house needs to be built, you have 10 (for example) polish workers willing and able to do the job, they're graft their arses off and crack on with it, they work because they want to, OR take same amount of english workers, have 10 tea breaks a day, 2 with bacon butties, half heartedly whip the bricks up, wipe the sweat from their bum cracks and knock off early. I've seen it with my own eyes - it happens.
Flame me if you want, I'm past caring, why say 'British jobs for British workers' when some British workers are hippy lazy and shite don't really want to do what they're doing? cowboy jobs left right and centre??
A job needs doing? makes no odds what their nationality, just get it done.
AND what if that statement worked the other way? Foreign jobs for foreign workers only?? I know loads of men who work away in foreign waters, away at sea, men who work in Dubai.. so what then? all our men are then unemployed??
Am sure the building union would wholeheartidly agree with you.

4 Feb 2009

Quote by DeeCee

Has it ever occured to you that people will tell you stuff like this just for the entertainment value of watching you blow a gasket :giggle:

:lol: :lol: :lol:

Blaaahdiie lefty swingers !!
:laughabove: :laughabove: :laughabove: :laughabove: :laughabove:
Sorry kent, but I have to laugh.... remember the time i called you Alf Garnett and you shat a kitten out!!!
validation at last !!!.....
no offence like!!! wink

Is that a new phrase there?
I have thick enough skin Deecee....bloody need it when surrounded by sandal wearer :wink: s.

4 Feb 2009

Quote by kentswingers777
Maybe it's something to do with the work ethic
For example, the Poles are reputed to work like Trojans in gratitude for the employment which places the contractor in a better position to finish the job on time and on budget - perhaps even with a bonus for completing early. If they are being paid the Sterling rate for the job, they are being very well paid indeed over and above their expectations in Poland.
With some other nationalities, the work ethic just isn't there and they couldn't care a toss about finishing the job; indeed, their ethic is one of dragging it out as long as they can to screw the boss.
Protectionism can be understood, but it usually involves double standards when it comes down to the jobs the Brit's don't like.

It's not that often I agree with you, but on this occasion... whole heartedly.
What is the matter with everyone??? a house needs to be built, you have 10 (for example) polish workers willing and able to do the job, they're graft their arses off and crack on with it, they work because they want to, OR take same amount of english workers, have 10 tea breaks a day, 2 with bacon butties, half heartedly whip the bricks up, wipe the sweat from their bum cracks and knock off early. I've seen it with my own eyes - it happens.
Flame me if you want, I'm past caring, why say 'British jobs for British workers' when some British workers are hippy lazy and shite don't really want to do what they're doing? cowboy jobs left right and centre??
A job needs doing? makes no odds what their nationality, just get it done.
AND what if that statement worked the other way? Foreign jobs for foreign workers only?? I know loads of men who work away in foreign waters, away at sea, men who work in Dubai.. so what then? all our men are then unemployed??
Am sure the building union would wholeheartidly agree with you.
it was an 'example' hunni wink

4 Feb 2009

Quote by Freckledbird

Your quite right Neil it is NOT a problem for the kids but.....I bet it is a massive problem for the teachers, who have to try and communicate with kids who cannot speak English. Also a massive problem for the local authorities who ( by European law )HAVE to take these kids on board.
Nope, not a problem at all - as Neil said, children soak up language like a sponge. They hear it and interact with native English speakers, picking it up very quickly.
I know somebody that used to work in a pre-school. They HAD to keep two child places back for immigrant children. So if a British person in that area wanted to put their kid into that pre-school, and there was only two places left, they would have had to turn that child down. Now that is NOT newspapers scares but a REAL situation, which is accepted as happening in most schools and pre-schools. But of course that would be ok then ?
Load of rubbish - if a school (or pre-school) has a place available and someone applies, that place has to be offered.
People can mock all they like but teachers and doctors, and all manner of others, are having massive problems coping, with insufficient funding and staff, to cope with the increased numbers.

There's insufficient funding regardless of the nationality of the children in schools.
So your saying that this person who was running a pre-school, is telling fibs just for the fun of it?
Different boroughs maybe have different rules.....but I can assure you, this person does not lie, has no reason to lie. As believe me she IS a leftie liberal.

4 Feb 2009

Quote by Dirtygirly

I gave you my answers but....seemed all for nothing, as I notice you did not even acknowledge my answers or.....were my answers not to your liking?

Not wishing to get into a political debate as I don't even know what sort of green, leftie, scarf knitting, sandal wearing, yoghurt eating, inbetweeny fence sitter I am but is that not a little bit of pot, kettle and black since you do it so often?! dunno

That was a serious question...
:mrgreen:
Is there such a thing on here? wink

Pot....kettle.....black......whatever do you mean? :D

4 Feb 2009

Quote by jaymar
Maybe it's something to do with the work ethic
For example, the Poles are reputed to work like Trojans in gratitude for the employment which places the contractor in a better position to finish the job on time and on budget - perhaps even with a bonus for completing early. If they are being paid the Sterling rate for the job, they are being very well paid indeed over and above their expectations in Poland.
With some other nationalities, the work ethic just isn't there and they couldn't care a toss about finishing the job; indeed, their ethic is one of dragging it out as long as they can to screw the boss.
Protectionism can be understood, but it usually involves double standards when it comes down to the jobs the Brit's don't like.

It's not that often I agree with you, but on this occasion... whole heartedly.
What is the matter with everyone??? a house needs to be built, you have 10 (for example) polish workers willing and able to do the job, they're graft their arses off and crack on with it, they work because they want to, OR take same amount of english workers, have 10 tea breaks a day, 2 with bacon butties, half heartedly whip the bricks up, wipe the sweat from their bum cracks and knock off early. I've seen it with my own eyes - it happens.
Flame me if you want, I'm past caring, why say 'British jobs for British workers' when some British workers are hippy lazy and shite don't really want to do what they're doing? cowboy jobs left right and centre??
A job needs doing? makes no odds what their nationality, just get it done.
AND what if that statement worked the other way? Foreign jobs for foreign workers only?? I know loads of men who work away in foreign waters, away at sea, men who work in Dubai.. so what then? all our men are then unemployed??
Am sure the building union would wholeheartidly agree with you.
it was an 'example' hunni wink

Not a very accurate one I feel Mar.
Of course we have the workers out there who will skive 8 hours a day, if they can get away with it. But there are also many millions who work their butts off every day too.
But it is true...the builders always seem to have their " cracks " on display. Disgusting it is too. :wink:

4 Feb 2009

Quote by kentswingers777
Of course we have the workers out there who will skive 8 hours a day, if they can get away with it. But there are also many millions who work their butts off every day too.

Yep, and they're the ones that still have jobs. The others are now sitting on their arses complaining that "some bloody immigrant" has taken their job wink

4 Feb 2009

Quote by Silk and Big G

Has it ever occured to you that people will tell you stuff like this just for the entertainment value of watching you blow a gasket :giggle:

:lol: :lol: :lol:
cool

8-)

4 Feb 2009

Did Gaunty draw that? :mrgreen:

4 Feb 2009

Quote by Dirtygirly
Did Gaunty draw that? :mrgreen:

A good deduction my dear. wink

4 Feb 2009

Quote by Angel Chat

Of course we have the workers out there who will skive 8 hours a day, if they can get away with it. But there are also many millions who work their butts off every day too.

Yep, and they're the ones that still have jobs. The others are now sitting on their arses complaining that "some bloody immigrant" has taken their job wink

yup and you can guarantee that they won't work for the same money that the foreign workers do, get the job, demand the pay increase, lessen the output and before you know it ... another company down the pan!