This is a question for people who have some faith in a religion (doesn't matter which one), do you find it difficult to balance that faith with swinging?
No offence but answers from people of some faith only please...
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Can swingers balance faith in a religion and swinging?
Sex God
I'm not answering (as I am an atheist) but I would like to comment that I find such questions very interesting.
There is something called (I think) cognitive dissonance which describes the ability to hold mutually exclusive or conflicting opinions/feelings. Humans are fascinating and complex creatures, aren't they?
There is something called (I think) cognitive dissonance which describes the ability to hold mutually exclusive or conflicting opinions/feelings. Humans are fascinating and complex creatures, aren't they?
Hi Foxy,
I think 'cognitive dissonance' could be an answer but then some people may feel that actually it's not cognitive dissonance. For example you might believe that the core of a Christian belief is in the divinity of Jesus and the basic "do unto others what you would have done unto you". So the bible might talk about not coveting another mans wife ... unless you don't mind it being done to you. It's just one possible view.
Another view could be that you could seperate the supernatural elements (e.g. 'I believe Jesus died for my sins') with the largely human interpreted bits on sexuality (e.g. the bible is actually pretty quiet on homosexuality).
When gay marriage was being debated the BBC interviewed some very committed 'gay Christians' so I wasn't sure if they would consider it a case of cognitive dissonance, one of the other possible explanations I listed or one I haven't thought of.
Christianity is the religion i'd know more about but i'd be fascinated in answers from people of other faiths. The Romans were the first great civilisation to adopt Christianity and they were far from champions of monogamy...
I think 'cognitive dissonance' could be an answer but then some people may feel that actually it's not cognitive dissonance. For example you might believe that the core of a Christian belief is in the divinity of Jesus and the basic "do unto others what you would have done unto you". So the bible might talk about not coveting another mans wife ... unless you don't mind it being done to you. It's just one possible view.
Another view could be that you could seperate the supernatural elements (e.g. 'I believe Jesus died for my sins') with the largely human interpreted bits on sexuality (e.g. the bible is actually pretty quiet on homosexuality).
When gay marriage was being debated the BBC interviewed some very committed 'gay Christians' so I wasn't sure if they would consider it a case of cognitive dissonance, one of the other possible explanations I listed or one I haven't thought of.
Christianity is the religion i'd know more about but i'd be fascinated in answers from people of other faiths. The Romans were the first great civilisation to adopt Christianity and they were far from champions of monogamy...
Sex God
Brilliant question!
Erm, this is a hard one for me as I have been brought up a Catholic and, although I am not in anyway practising and haven't been for years, part of me would like to still have faith in something. Unfortunately I find my world view so at odds with much of what the Catholic church preaches that I have increasingly found myself moving away from religion altogether.
My gut says that recreational sex between consenting adults doesn't harm anyone therefore, in the grand scheme of things, is it such a bother regardless of religious faith or not?
x
Erm, this is a hard one for me as I have been brought up a Catholic and, although I am not in anyway practising and haven't been for years, part of me would like to still have faith in something. Unfortunately I find my world view so at odds with much of what the Catholic church preaches that I have increasingly found myself moving away from religion altogether.
My gut says that recreational sex between consenting adults doesn't harm anyone therefore, in the grand scheme of things, is it such a bother regardless of religious faith or not?
x
I consider myself a very spiritual person, although not necessarily a Religious one (note the big "R").
I think that the difficulty that swinging presents is a wider issue with how Religious teaching becomes doctrine and the agendas present.
I should say straight off that I do not believe that any holy text is the ordained word of a particular god. If you believe that religious writing ought to be taken verbatim, then I'm afraid I can't offer any suggestion to help balance your views.
Taking the Bible as an example (because it's the Religious text I know the most), very little is actually written about sex. Of what is written, a huge amount of it is contradictory. We've all seen in recent months that the biblical arguments against homosexuality are given equal weight to those banning crop rotation, tattoos, shellfish and the infamous "wearing garments blended from two materials."
At the heart of religious teaching and writing is the intent of the author. People are made up from many different desires and agendas. There are always those prone to asceticism (whereby denying yourself is seen as a way of promoting spiritual growth). In its advanced form, all kinds of physical pleasure are , from sex to good food. It therefore follows that the more enjoyable sex is, the more "unclean" it is perceived to be. Therefore from the ascetics we inherit the idea that sex should serve a practical purpose; i.e. we must do it to procreate, therefore, we can keep any "enjoyment" to ourselves and pretend it isn't the most important factor.
I believe that this is how our faiths end up reflecting sexual desire. The (very important) job which faith has in supporting committed relationships gets muddled by the fact that sex and relationships are very different things. I believe it is possible to enjoy sex without "committed" love, in a relationship and out. For example, sometimes when my wife and I have sex, it is relationship-affirming sex which brings us closer together emotionally. Sometime, one or other of us is just horny and we just need to fuck
Where does that leave swinging?
When my wife and I swing, we do it for each other. We are excited by - and brought closer by - seeing each other enjoy sexual pleasure with others and getting to try different things. But in those instances where we are one-on-one with another person, we are not having the same kind of sex that we would have with each other. We do not give of ourselves in the same way as when we are together. This can be demonstrated by the fact that 9 times out of 10, as soon as we're left alone by a couple we've just played with, we will probably have sex ourselves.
In summary, I believe that a major element of religion is its role in protecting our relationships. I also believe that sex isn't just sex. There is all kinds of sex that can be had and it is the intent behind that sex which defines how well it should fit into our relationships.
As has been said before, the most important element in any faith is that it should keep you from hurting others. If the way you are swinging is causing hurt to other people, or damaging your own relationships then it's time to stop. Otherwise it's a great way we can share each others' company and get to love our neighbours a little more intimately.
I think that the difficulty that swinging presents is a wider issue with how Religious teaching becomes doctrine and the agendas present.
I should say straight off that I do not believe that any holy text is the ordained word of a particular god. If you believe that religious writing ought to be taken verbatim, then I'm afraid I can't offer any suggestion to help balance your views.
Taking the Bible as an example (because it's the Religious text I know the most), very little is actually written about sex. Of what is written, a huge amount of it is contradictory. We've all seen in recent months that the biblical arguments against homosexuality are given equal weight to those banning crop rotation, tattoos, shellfish and the infamous "wearing garments blended from two materials."
At the heart of religious teaching and writing is the intent of the author. People are made up from many different desires and agendas. There are always those prone to asceticism (whereby denying yourself is seen as a way of promoting spiritual growth). In its advanced form, all kinds of physical pleasure are , from sex to good food. It therefore follows that the more enjoyable sex is, the more "unclean" it is perceived to be. Therefore from the ascetics we inherit the idea that sex should serve a practical purpose; i.e. we must do it to procreate, therefore, we can keep any "enjoyment" to ourselves and pretend it isn't the most important factor.
I believe that this is how our faiths end up reflecting sexual desire. The (very important) job which faith has in supporting committed relationships gets muddled by the fact that sex and relationships are very different things. I believe it is possible to enjoy sex without "committed" love, in a relationship and out. For example, sometimes when my wife and I have sex, it is relationship-affirming sex which brings us closer together emotionally. Sometime, one or other of us is just horny and we just need to fuck
Where does that leave swinging?
When my wife and I swing, we do it for each other. We are excited by - and brought closer by - seeing each other enjoy sexual pleasure with others and getting to try different things. But in those instances where we are one-on-one with another person, we are not having the same kind of sex that we would have with each other. We do not give of ourselves in the same way as when we are together. This can be demonstrated by the fact that 9 times out of 10, as soon as we're left alone by a couple we've just played with, we will probably have sex ourselves.
In summary, I believe that a major element of religion is its role in protecting our relationships. I also believe that sex isn't just sex. There is all kinds of sex that can be had and it is the intent behind that sex which defines how well it should fit into our relationships.
As has been said before, the most important element in any faith is that it should keep you from hurting others. If the way you are swinging is causing hurt to other people, or damaging your own relationships then it's time to stop. Otherwise it's a great way we can share each others' company and get to love our neighbours a little more intimately.
I very much related to like2share's comment:
"I think that the difficulty that swinging presents is a wider issue with how Religious teaching becomes doctrine and the agendas present.
We've all seen in recent months that the biblical arguments against homosexuality are given equal weight to those banning crop rotation, tattoos, shellfish and the infamous "wearing garments blended from two materials."
Cardinal Keith O'Brien may have hit the headlines for the wrong reasons but that did cause me to read in depth some things he said that I think add to this debate:
He explained: "For example the celibacy of the clergy, whether priests should marry - Jesus didn't say that...it would be within the scope of the new Pope to consider whether the Roman Catholic Church should change its stance on other issues, which were not of divine origin."
To me that's why I don't believe there is an inherent contradiction between faith and swinging. All religions to some extent teach things that are not of 'divine origin' and those things are subject to change which in my opinion turns it into a matter of conscience. That said I do accept that if you walk into you're local church and tell them what a great time you had at Ab Fabs last night then it's unlikely to go down well. But when I think of the gay christians on the bbc I think that 95% of the people in that Church would rather a gay was a christian than straight but athiest.
"I think that the difficulty that swinging presents is a wider issue with how Religious teaching becomes doctrine and the agendas present.
We've all seen in recent months that the biblical arguments against homosexuality are given equal weight to those banning crop rotation, tattoos, shellfish and the infamous "wearing garments blended from two materials."
Cardinal Keith O'Brien may have hit the headlines for the wrong reasons but that did cause me to read in depth some things he said that I think add to this debate:
He explained: "For example the celibacy of the clergy, whether priests should marry - Jesus didn't say that...it would be within the scope of the new Pope to consider whether the Roman Catholic Church should change its stance on other issues, which were not of divine origin."
To me that's why I don't believe there is an inherent contradiction between faith and swinging. All religions to some extent teach things that are not of 'divine origin' and those things are subject to change which in my opinion turns it into a matter of conscience. That said I do accept that if you walk into you're local church and tell them what a great time you had at Ab Fabs last night then it's unlikely to go down well. But when I think of the gay christians on the bbc I think that 95% of the people in that Church would rather a gay was a christian than straight but athiest.
Quote by mixedbicouple
That said I do accept that if you walk into you're local church and tell them what a great time you had at Ab Fabs last night then it's unlikely to go down well. But when I think of the gay christians on the bbc I think that 95% of the people in that Church would rather a gay was a christian than straight but athiest.
And i think that for people of faith, it is important to distinguish between the things which a god may accept or not accept, versus the things which other people find difficult to accept. Despite the fact that God is traditionally viewed as an ultimate judge, I find that it is people who are more judgemental in a church or other religious community.
This is the thing I struggle with the most. I am a generally very honest and open person and I find it frustrating that I cannot talk about swinging alongside the rest of my life's interests. It's normal to me, but I sometimes have to accept that it would cause a reaction among more sheltered, ignorant or opinionated people.
Plus, Mrs Like prefers to keep it private! Which decides it for me, really. But I think the secrecy element contributes to it feeling like a "wrong" thing for some people.
I am of the opinion that if you can balance swinging with your religious beliefs with your swinging lifestyle you can be a swinger and if you can't balance them then you won't swing or you will at the very least believe that it is worth the indiscretion.
Many religious people can live with breaking a vow or a commandment or the written word of their particular book/bible.
It appears that even a cardinal can do it and we have all heard of Priests and Vicars who have broken serious vows/codes/written .words yet been happy to continue with their religious beliefs, taking into account some of what we know some have done yet still been able to believe in what they believe, swinging is a very very minor indiscretion.
Personally I believe that swinging is just a natural human trait. We live our lives as humans with variety an important aspect, we cannot have the same coloured car as everyone else, we cannot have all our rooms the same colour with the same pictures, we cannot eat our favourite meal 3 times a day or only watch our favourite movie, everything we do requires variety.
Even monogomous couples like variety in sex, different positions, different places, different outfits.
I think you can love one person all your life, spend you life with one person, but we all enjoy a varied sex life and swingers get that.
Who said it was wrong to have sex with other people, the bible, the governments, self appointed or government appointed organisations, if they were right why would nature instill this desire for variety in us ? animals are happy with the same position, some like to vary the partner but they don't appear to have a favourite as humans do.
Religion often says it is wrong, yet many religions believe it to be right depending how you interpret the written word or the word passed from generation to generation, some Mormons for example think it wrong to have more than wife some think the writings of Joseph Smith says it's ok.
The Catholic church may say it is wrong to have sex with anyone but your husband/wife yet many of the priests do exactly that and more.
Has anyone got a valid reason why couples should not, with each others consent practice safe sex with others, why they should not be successfull swingers, ie without remorse, jealousy or conflict of interests and their partners consent.
Many religious people can live with breaking a vow or a commandment or the written word of their particular book/bible.
It appears that even a cardinal can do it and we have all heard of Priests and Vicars who have broken serious vows/codes/written .words yet been happy to continue with their religious beliefs, taking into account some of what we know some have done yet still been able to believe in what they believe, swinging is a very very minor indiscretion.
Personally I believe that swinging is just a natural human trait. We live our lives as humans with variety an important aspect, we cannot have the same coloured car as everyone else, we cannot have all our rooms the same colour with the same pictures, we cannot eat our favourite meal 3 times a day or only watch our favourite movie, everything we do requires variety.
Even monogomous couples like variety in sex, different positions, different places, different outfits.
I think you can love one person all your life, spend you life with one person, but we all enjoy a varied sex life and swingers get that.
Who said it was wrong to have sex with other people, the bible, the governments, self appointed or government appointed organisations, if they were right why would nature instill this desire for variety in us ? animals are happy with the same position, some like to vary the partner but they don't appear to have a favourite as humans do.
Religion often says it is wrong, yet many religions believe it to be right depending how you interpret the written word or the word passed from generation to generation, some Mormons for example think it wrong to have more than wife some think the writings of Joseph Smith says it's ok.
The Catholic church may say it is wrong to have sex with anyone but your husband/wife yet many of the priests do exactly that and more.
Has anyone got a valid reason why couples should not, with each others consent practice safe sex with others, why they should not be successfull swingers, ie without remorse, jealousy or conflict of interests and their partners consent.
Another non believer here but fantastic question though. Id love the faith some put in their god myself but as its caused almost every global war in history and its teachings contribute to massive misery and the same amount of contradictory behaviours worldwide daily too .. from high up god staff down to the local priest etc .. if they can balance and remain with god after the recent horrid scandals they covered up .. being in here and with some from here now and then is easily balanced surely.
I believe religion worldwide and all of them are struggling to remain relevant in this modern world. Some acts carried out in religions name is still shocking even though more frequent nowadays too.
That post made me think for once and ive a new question from it ... To ask yourself that question, has your faith gone totally? If not can it be rebalanced and how?
Here could be almost classed as a faith or exotic cult and also has a few ultimate gods and takes chip and pin and lots of others for payment. All should be welcome to follow any faith or way they choose too. If god exists he made everything and everyone so why are the colourful people not allowed to marry in his house? How can you be a gay christian, like Obama joining the BNP surely.
There must be some practicing faith here to answer how they feel about this one from experience too. Not rebalanced yet and still here but working on it every Sunday lol
Its difficult to take seriously i find ... and understand after reading that there are committed gay christians too. Place all your faith in something your only ever a sin in. Makes no sense at all. Still manages to cause so much misery and suffering in its name. Funny thing is .. i'm certain in the bible there are less rules that cause sin than here. Great post again and hope some practicing off balance obviously believers post how it is from experience.
Even as an atheist im pretty sure if you had real faith in your religion. Its a question you would never have to answer.
J
I believe religion worldwide and all of them are struggling to remain relevant in this modern world. Some acts carried out in religions name is still shocking even though more frequent nowadays too.
That post made me think for once and ive a new question from it ... To ask yourself that question, has your faith gone totally? If not can it be rebalanced and how?
Here could be almost classed as a faith or exotic cult and also has a few ultimate gods and takes chip and pin and lots of others for payment. All should be welcome to follow any faith or way they choose too. If god exists he made everything and everyone so why are the colourful people not allowed to marry in his house? How can you be a gay christian, like Obama joining the BNP surely.
There must be some practicing faith here to answer how they feel about this one from experience too. Not rebalanced yet and still here but working on it every Sunday lol
Its difficult to take seriously i find ... and understand after reading that there are committed gay christians too. Place all your faith in something your only ever a sin in. Makes no sense at all. Still manages to cause so much misery and suffering in its name. Funny thing is .. i'm certain in the bible there are less rules that cause sin than here. Great post again and hope some practicing off balance obviously believers post how it is from experience.
Even as an atheist im pretty sure if you had real faith in your religion. Its a question you would never have to answer.
J
The Holy Bible is the greatest book ever written, it tells you everything is wrong
The Holy Bible is the greatest book ever written, it tells you everything is right
Killing is wrong according to the bible "thou shalt not Kill"
Killing is right in the bible "an eye for an eye" "onward Christian soldiers"
Everytime it says don't do something there is another passage somewhere in the Bible that says it is ok and right to do it.
Even killing jews in their millions is condoned by the Bible, they turned from God and were punished and have to continue to be punished until they renounce their religion and return to Christianity.
I am sure most other religious books do the same.
Often it is modern interpretations of religious books that cause the problems, how Jehovahs Witnesses take the Holy Bible and believe some medical practices to be wrong, how some Muslims believe they should kill all Westerners where some read it differently.
The Holy Bible is the greatest book ever written, it tells you everything is right
Killing is wrong according to the bible "thou shalt not Kill"
Killing is right in the bible "an eye for an eye" "onward Christian soldiers"
Everytime it says don't do something there is another passage somewhere in the Bible that says it is ok and right to do it.
Even killing jews in their millions is condoned by the Bible, they turned from God and were punished and have to continue to be punished until they renounce their religion and return to Christianity.
I am sure most other religious books do the same.
Often it is modern interpretations of religious books that cause the problems, how Jehovahs Witnesses take the Holy Bible and believe some medical practices to be wrong, how some Muslims believe they should kill all Westerners where some read it differently.
Having never read any version of a holy book .. but have heard some of the dont dos in it ..
Is the Thou shalt not kill bit right or wrong then Mids.. even if they have oil or are trying to kill you..
Never understood why the jews get killed by every faith regularly ... what have they done for that then ...
Thought they were hated for buiding a few houses on a barren stretch of land near the West Bank too ..
Killing cant be wrong if you eat it afterwards ... animals for food i mean ..
J
Is the Thou shalt not kill bit right or wrong then Mids.. even if they have oil or are trying to kill you..
Never understood why the jews get killed by every faith regularly ... what have they done for that then ...
Thought they were hated for buiding a few houses on a barren stretch of land near the West Bank too ..
Killing cant be wrong if you eat it afterwards ... animals for food i mean ..
J
I have faith but isn't attached to any god. I have faith people knowing and believing what is right for them that is within the law. I don't believe the law is perfect but together that can be changed. You can not change the writing of the religious text as I believe has been proven before without admitting it is written by man. Law we all know is written by man so can be changed by man.
Religion I believe only causes the division of humanity and the questioning and guilt by its own followers of how they should behave or something to hid behind the name of, for acts against humanity.
I do however know many like a place within a community whereby people can go and feel safe, supported, accepted and make friends. I think they should be more along the lines of humanity meeting places than a place to worship a god. We should worship humanity and all the diversity within that it can teach us all.
So in answer to your question I don't see how any religious beliefs can ever really be justified with being here while married, being gay, and many other things. That is why we make a choice in following the teachings or not I would have thought. We go by them or our own gut morality and belief in knowing what is right for us and withn the law surely.
Religion I believe only causes the division of humanity and the questioning and guilt by its own followers of how they should behave or something to hid behind the name of, for acts against humanity.
I do however know many like a place within a community whereby people can go and feel safe, supported, accepted and make friends. I think they should be more along the lines of humanity meeting places than a place to worship a god. We should worship humanity and all the diversity within that it can teach us all.
So in answer to your question I don't see how any religious beliefs can ever really be justified with being here while married, being gay, and many other things. That is why we make a choice in following the teachings or not I would have thought. We go by them or our own gut morality and belief in knowing what is right for us and withn the law surely.
Quote by mixedbicouple
But when I think of the gay christians on the bbc I think that 95% of the people in that Church would rather a gay was a christian than straight but athiest.
Sorry to pick up on something you just said here, but that comment upset me somewhat. As someone that would admit to anyone that I am a straight female non believer. That 95% of Christians would dismiss me for remaining neutral within my beliefs?
That makes me question myself in why I give up so much time voluntary and effort I put in, in serving my community in my spare time both children and adults alike of many faiths if the ones with faith would judge me in such a simple way.
But lucky my soul tells me never to give up somehow in helping others no matter what background, faith, culture, sex, age they come from.
So I shall ignore such a comment but I believe you are right.
Quote by flower411
But when I think of the gay christians on the bbc I think that 95% of the people in that Church would rather a gay was a christian than straight but athiest.
Sorry to pick up on something you just said here, but that comment upset me somewhat. As someone that would admit to anyone that I am a straight female non believer. That 95% of Christians would dismiss me for remaining neutral within my beliefs?
That makes me question myself in why I give up so much time voluntary and effort I put in, in serving my community in my spare time both children and adults alike of many faiths if the ones with faith would judge me in such a simple way.
But lucky my soul tells me never to give up somehow in helping others no matter what background, faith, culture, sex, age they come from.
So I shall ignore such a comment but I believe you are right.
I`m afraid the comment is very probably correct minx at least in the religious heirarchy.
If you are not their friend then you are their enemy.
Most religions condone killing people that don`t agree with them.
I agreed that mixedbicouple's comment was what I believed to be right too.
Have you just got out of bed and forgot your reading glasses so didn't see my closing comment?
I meant I shall ignore the judgement of how they would see me and continue on with what I do.
Sex God
Swinging is tangible and more fun than faith in any religion so my advice would be to drop religion.
Sorry non believer here.
What does seem apparent to me with religion and it is probably the same with swinging, is that men it seems can do as they please, and women do as they are told.
I have no time for a religion that treats one sex different from another in the terms of equality. I am sure that if a clergyman etc was found out to have been involved in swinging the old boys act would come into play, but if a woman did the same thing........
I find most religions, but the Catholic church high up the list, as being hypocritical and that is putting it mildly. Also is religious organisations against gay relationships? I wonder how the gays out there who are religious react to their churches views on their relationships within swinging I wonder.
What does seem apparent to me with religion and it is probably the same with swinging, is that men it seems can do as they please, and women do as they are told.
I have no time for a religion that treats one sex different from another in the terms of equality. I am sure that if a clergyman etc was found out to have been involved in swinging the old boys act would come into play, but if a woman did the same thing........
I find most religions, but the Catholic church high up the list, as being hypocritical and that is putting it mildly. Also is religious organisations against gay relationships? I wonder how the gays out there who are religious react to their churches views on their relationships within swinging I wonder.
As a swinger I am willing to tolerate religion in the world, even though a lot of harm is done in it's name, a lot of good is also done in it's name.
I do feel superior to people of a devout religious belief, I like swinging, I admit it, I welcome others into the scene, gays, bisexuals and hetrosexuals alike, I abhor paedophiles and unlike religious supporters will not alienate people because of thier sexual orientation with the exception of paedophiles who are welcomed by religious organisations whilst the gays and bisexuals are ousted.
As a swinger I accept that some peoples way of swinging is different to my own, I respect their boundaries and personal views, I do not call for them to be "thrown out of the swinging community".
Do not ask me if I am a believer or non-believer that is my personal business but I will tell you that I do not believe in religous organisations, self appointed messengers of many gods imposing their interpretations, rules and beliefs on the rest of the worlds population whilst opening their arms to "sinners" who are willing to assist their cause.
As a swinger I am willing to tolerate religion, but I look upon it with the same scorn they pour on my way of living my life.
I do feel superior to people of a devout religious belief, I like swinging, I admit it, I welcome others into the scene, gays, bisexuals and hetrosexuals alike, I abhor paedophiles and unlike religious supporters will not alienate people because of thier sexual orientation with the exception of paedophiles who are welcomed by religious organisations whilst the gays and bisexuals are ousted.
As a swinger I accept that some peoples way of swinging is different to my own, I respect their boundaries and personal views, I do not call for them to be "thrown out of the swinging community".
Do not ask me if I am a believer or non-believer that is my personal business but I will tell you that I do not believe in religous organisations, self appointed messengers of many gods imposing their interpretations, rules and beliefs on the rest of the worlds population whilst opening their arms to "sinners" who are willing to assist their cause.
As a swinger I am willing to tolerate religion, but I look upon it with the same scorn they pour on my way of living my life.
Sex God
My is pretty OK with sex really, we're pretty open about sexuality generally, sex is good. How else you gonna get yourself properly if not by having lots of regular sex with beautiful men and women? You can't can you, it's not happening. Avoiding work isn't by itself enough to achieve the correct amount of Slackness, it takes more than that.
There is a serious point there: which religions are we talking about? Seems to be the Judeo-Christian / Abrahamic religions ( I include Islam here ) who get all hung up about sex, not sure your Eastern ( Dharmic / Taoic ) religions are nearly so mithered about it? Look at Hindus and the Kama Sutra FFS, what does that tell you? I do like winding Xtians up on the gay marriage thing on the internets of late I must admit. It's a bit like shooting fish in a barrel sometimes, they're so easily confused by the Bible's stance on it. Cruel really sometimes, I try to have respect for peoples' beliefs, except when they try to deny rights to others that they enjoy cos of something a bloke once wrote in a book imagining he was communing with the big man in the sky. Yeah, right, wotevs you lunatic, no it doesn't work like that unfortunately mate.
Ask them what G*d has to say about the rights or wrongs of turning off light switches on a Saturday morning or rustling up a few prawns wearing your mixed fibre PJs they're likely to go all New Covenant on you: In the person of Christ the O.T. proscriptions were made obsolete in fulfillment of them, right. So why does the O.T. proscription on homosexuality ( or perhaps more accurately temple prostitutes ) remain though the Christian church has dispensed with the rest? And then they start pointing to Romans, Corinthians, Timothy or whatever in the N.T. WTF? The epistles are Paul writing for his own purposes, and those of the early church, they aren't even the words of Jesus as attributed to him in the four gospels, a man who funnily enough had fuck all to say on the subject. It's fun!
There is a serious point there: which religions are we talking about? Seems to be the Judeo-Christian / Abrahamic religions ( I include Islam here ) who get all hung up about sex, not sure your Eastern ( Dharmic / Taoic ) religions are nearly so mithered about it? Look at Hindus and the Kama Sutra FFS, what does that tell you? I do like winding Xtians up on the gay marriage thing on the internets of late I must admit. It's a bit like shooting fish in a barrel sometimes, they're so easily confused by the Bible's stance on it. Cruel really sometimes, I try to have respect for peoples' beliefs, except when they try to deny rights to others that they enjoy cos of something a bloke once wrote in a book imagining he was communing with the big man in the sky. Yeah, right, wotevs you lunatic, no it doesn't work like that unfortunately mate.
Ask them what G*d has to say about the rights or wrongs of turning off light switches on a Saturday morning or rustling up a few prawns wearing your mixed fibre PJs they're likely to go all New Covenant on you: In the person of Christ the O.T. proscriptions were made obsolete in fulfillment of them, right. So why does the O.T. proscription on homosexuality ( or perhaps more accurately temple prostitutes ) remain though the Christian church has dispensed with the rest? And then they start pointing to Romans, Corinthians, Timothy or whatever in the N.T. WTF? The epistles are Paul writing for his own purposes, and those of the early church, they aren't even the words of Jesus as attributed to him in the four gospels, a man who funnily enough had fuck all to say on the subject. It's fun!
The answer to the question is no, you cannot balance it.
Kid yourself you can if you like, ultimately anyone on this board will put their Swinging lifestyle ahead of any religious beliefs they have preventing it, and if there is anyone out there whose religious beliefs preclude a swinging lifestyle then they are not likely to be on this site.
In any event, how interesting would it actually be to go on a meet, only to have the other couple lecturing you on how sinful you were.
Personally I think you are all damned, and I will pray for you all.
Bless you.
Kid yourself you can if you like, ultimately anyone on this board will put their Swinging lifestyle ahead of any religious beliefs they have preventing it, and if there is anyone out there whose religious beliefs preclude a swinging lifestyle then they are not likely to be on this site.
In any event, how interesting would it actually be to go on a meet, only to have the other couple lecturing you on how sinful you were.
Personally I think you are all damned, and I will pray for you all.
Bless you.
Surely Faith is totally different to religion? Certainly none of the churches I have attended over the past 40 years have even mentioned the word religion, i dont consider myself to be religious, however i do have faith in a higher power, call it God, Allah, Buddha, whatever - Churches are all about money, and yes religion itself has caused more death and destruction than anything else in the modern world.. when arguing religion/christianity etc people tend to focus on the parts of the bible which feature death and destruction - however if you study the New International Version of the Holy Bible you will find that the New Testament is devoted to Jesus and how he lived his life - to me as a lapsed Christian the Church as an organisation is rich and hypocritical, but the majority of Christians i know are living the values demonstrated by Christ Jesus in the New Testament , they are kind considerate people who love everyone regardless of what they do, who they are, whether they swing, etc etc - One of my dearest friends is a Christian and her view of my lifestyle is supportive and caring - she is non judgemental and understands how i got into the scene in the first place and why.
I balance my faith and my lifestyle quite well with no feelings of the guilt indoctrinated into me as a child of a so-called religious family.
I am just me, end of, and just a little quote to end with (not nicked from google) Jeremiah 1:5 - Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, before you were born I set you apart.
Its all about the Individual
:wink: :wink:
I balance my faith and my lifestyle quite well with no feelings of the guilt indoctrinated into me as a child of a so-called religious family.
I am just me, end of, and just a little quote to end with (not nicked from google) Jeremiah 1:5 - Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, before you were born I set you apart.
Its all about the Individual
:wink: :wink:
I understand what your saying and agree in part, not though with the Churches I see not mentioning Religion. Christianity is a religion, split perhaps into many labels such as Church of Scotland, Church of England Christadelphian Church, Mormon Church, Catholic Church but all stemming from the bible and someones interpretation of it, If I go to a Synagogue or Mosque I know which Religion I am expected to have preached to me, the same applies to the Catholic Church or Church of England.
If a Church does not mention religion would you go to a Mosque and expect them to tell you that Jesus Christ was sent to us by God ?
Even the building name tells you what religion is preached within, a church to me is a place of worship yet we don't call all places of worship Churches or Synagogues or Mosques or Temples, in Wolverhampton the Guru Nanaak Satsung Sikh Temple caters for the Sikh religion I believe, a buddihst temple does not preach the ways of Allah.
I do believe you can have faith without ever visiting a church or even reading the Bible, Koran or any other book and without a label to say what you should believe within your faith. You can believe that what is said about Jesus Christ, Allah, the Dahli Lamma and their ways of looking at our lives and how we live them (excuse spellings I didn't google any of this are a good way to be.
If a Church does not mention religion would you go to a Mosque and expect them to tell you that Jesus Christ was sent to us by God ?
Even the building name tells you what religion is preached within, a church to me is a place of worship yet we don't call all places of worship Churches or Synagogues or Mosques or Temples, in Wolverhampton the Guru Nanaak Satsung Sikh Temple caters for the Sikh religion I believe, a buddihst temple does not preach the ways of Allah.
I do believe you can have faith without ever visiting a church or even reading the Bible, Koran or any other book and without a label to say what you should believe within your faith. You can believe that what is said about Jesus Christ, Allah, the Dahli Lamma and their ways of looking at our lives and how we live them (excuse spellings I didn't google any of this are a good way to be.
