Caught breaking the law

14 Oct 2011

Quote by moniquejohn
There is a defence in English common law (used by the police etc on a daily basis..eg speeding) saying that one crime may be committed if it prevents a greater crime.
The problem isn't what law was broke, but rather one of what defence was used to defend that persons actions in court.
No law can been found to be broken until a person is found guilty.
John.

Get out of this forum...................
..........we wanted Monique in here lol

Welcome John :welcome:. Glad you found us :thumbup:
Dave_Notts

14 Oct 2011

"That is a greyish area I think. Certainly the police have specific opersating procedures that allow exceeding the speed limit in certain circumstances."
Those operating procedures do not give an officer the right to break the law. They have not been passed by parliament and enshrined in legislation.
They can only speed if it prevents a crime of greater importance. e.g most crimes are of Greater importance than speeding!
The "specific opersating procedures" are simply guidelines within the force that have been found sufficient to avoid prosecution or criticism. (just my opinion of course)
John

17 Oct 2011

Quote by moniquejohn
"That is a greyish area I think. Certainly the police have specific opersating procedures that allow exceeding the speed limit in certain circumstances."
Those operating procedures do not give an officer the right to break the law. They have not been passed by parliament and enshrined in legislation.
They can only speed if it prevents a crime of greater importance. e.g most crimes are of Greater importance than speeding!
The "specific opersating procedures" are simply guidelines within the force that have been found sufficient to avoid prosecution or criticism. (just my opinion of course)
John

Interesting train of thought developing here. If speeding is only acceptable to prevent a worse crime - what about police chasing speeders? It would mean they are being worse - ie driving faster - in order to stop someone doing a similar but less severe offence - driving slower than them. hmmm - << goes off to think about it some more>>.

17 Oct 2011

Quote by foxylady2209
"That is a greyish area I think. Certainly the police have specific opersating procedures that allow exceeding the speed limit in certain circumstances."
Those operating procedures do not give an officer the right to break the law. They have not been passed by parliament and enshrined in legislation.
They can only speed if it prevents a crime of greater importance. e.g most crimes are of Greater importance than speeding!
The "specific opersating procedures" are simply guidelines within the force that have been found sufficient to avoid prosecution or criticism. (just my opinion of course)
John

Interesting train of thought developing here. If speeding is only acceptable to prevent a worse crime - what about police chasing speeders? It would mean they are being worse - ie driving faster - in order to stop someone doing a similar but less severe offence - driving slower than them. hmmm - << goes off to think about it some more>>.
but the police in question of speeding to chase the speeder then the worse crime is the possibility of death or maiming of themselves or third parties and is tolerated in my opinion. but if the officers were speeding to get back to the station for end of shift then they can and will be prosecuted to the extent of the law

17 Oct 2011

Quote by sara2010
"That is a greyish area I think. Certainly the police have specific opersating procedures that allow exceeding the speed limit in certain circumstances."
Those operating procedures do not give an officer the right to break the law. They have not been passed by parliament and enshrined in legislation.
They can only speed if it prevents a crime of greater importance. e.g most crimes are of Greater importance than speeding!
The "specific opersating procedures" are simply guidelines within the force that have been found sufficient to avoid prosecution or criticism. (just my opinion of course)
John

Interesting train of thought developing here. If speeding is only acceptable to prevent a worse crime - what about police chasing speeders? It would mean they are being worse - ie driving faster - in order to stop someone doing a similar but less severe offence - driving slower than them. hmmm - << goes off to think about it some more>>.
but the police in question of speeding to chase the speeder then the worse crime is the possibility of death or maiming of themselves or third parties and is tolerated in my opinion. but if the officers were speeding to get back to the station for end of shift then they can and will be prosecuted to the extent of the law
I see no need for them to speed to catch a speeding driver, get the evidence on video and then call off any chase, or get the helicopter in. Most times the car registration will lead them to the persons home, just as speed camera's do

17 Oct 2011

Quote by Bluefish2009
"That is a greyish area I think. Certainly the police have specific opersating procedures that allow exceeding the speed limit in certain circumstances."
Those operating procedures do not give an officer the right to break the law. They have not been passed by parliament and enshrined in legislation.
They can only speed if it prevents a crime of greater importance. e.g most crimes are of Greater importance than speeding!
The "specific opersating procedures" are simply guidelines within the force that have been found sufficient to avoid prosecution or criticism. (just my opinion of course)
John

Interesting train of thought developing here. If speeding is only acceptable to prevent a worse crime - what about police chasing speeders? It would mean they are being worse - ie driving faster - in order to stop someone doing a similar but less severe offence - driving slower than them. hmmm - << goes off to think about it some more>>.
but the police in question of speeding to chase the speeder then the worse crime is the possibility of death or maiming of themselves or third parties and is tolerated in my opinion. but if the officers were speeding to get back to the station for end of shift then they can and will be prosecuted to the extent of the law
I see no need for them to speed to catch a speeding driver, get the evidence on video and then call off any chase, or get the helicopter in. Most times the car registration will lead them to the persons home, just as speed camera's do
not if they already broke the law by not registering the car for tax or insurance as a vast majority of speeding offenders do, that or they stole the car, the police have to give chase to find out if they are the actual owners of the car first

17 Oct 2011

Quote by sara2010
I see no need for them to speed to catch a speeding driver, get the evidence on video and then call off any chase, or get the helicopter in. Most times the car registration will lead them to the persons home, just as speed camera's do

not if they already broke the law by not registering the car for tax or insurance as a vast majority of speeding offenders do, that or they stole the car, the police have to give chase to find out if they are the actual owners of the car first
That is both ends of the spectrum to me.
I can see both points of view in this but I suppose it would come down to a case by case basis. We have to rely that the training of the officers in charge has been good enough that they know when to chase and when not to.
Dave_Notts

18 Oct 2011

is the best way to deal with them...

18 Oct 2011

Quote by Dave__Notts
I see no need for them to speed to catch a speeding driver, get the evidence on video and then call off any chase, or get the helicopter in. Most times the car registration will lead them to the persons home, just as speed camera's do

not if they already broke the law by not registering the car for tax or insurance as a vast majority of speeding offenders do, that or they stole the car, the police have to give chase to find out if they are the actual owners of the car first
That is both ends of the spectrum to me.
I can see both points of view in this but I suppose it would come down to a case by case basis. We have to rely that the training of the officers in charge has been good enough that they know when to chase and when not to.
Dave_Notts
As Dave says, we are talking here of two ends of the scale here. The problem for me is that the person being pursued by the police are not highly trained drivers, I feel for officers to give chase and put other road user's lives at risk then the crime should be befitting to the danger of the chase.
Some years back two young lives were lost as police chased two young lads for speeding. It turns out they had marginally exceeded a speed limit, the police gave chase and they drove into a brick wall. That wall only killed them, but the wall could have been a family in their car, or on the pavement