CCTV-The Curse of the 21st century

25 Feb 2009

Quote by benrums0n
I wasn't aware of the tram issue is it an awful feckless waste of hard earned cash?
Im sorry if it is, although I often think councils get to do all the shitty jobs so that central government doesn't have to. A bit like IT departments who sub contract pc maintenance purely because it isn't "sexy".

And some... it's an absolute disgrace. They've shut Princes Street thus causing havoc with the transport and now the workers have apparently downed tools cause they need another 50 million on top of the 500+ million they're already spent! rolleyes

Now they're talking about selling the bus company (which incidentally is one of the best in the country!) to pay for trams that go from one place to the next without any great use to anyone unless you're a tourist.
It's quite unbelievable! :roll:

25 Feb 2009

Quote by benrums0n
And Kenty I quote
"I think that those that moan about them, would moan about anything. "
Keep away from the personal jibes please. In case you feel I am being overly sensitive imagine if in response to a thread you had posted moaning about scroungers I responded " I think people who moan about scroungers are pig ignorant. " How would you feel?

benrums0n, I personally think either a) you are picking for the sake of it or b) far too fragile to be involved in anything that resembles a discussion, it seems to me that you are twisting comments to suit an agenda.
As for the original subject, as has been said, yes, there are a lot of cctv camera's out there, but in the absence of any degree of spine from the decisionmakers when it comes to punishment, then it is in some respects necessary, and regardless of a persons views on cctv, if an incident was to occur against someone, they would immediately ask if anything was caught on camera, we can't have it both ways.

25 Feb 2009

Thank you for your input Essex.
In my defence I simply don't like persona insults, however thickly veiled.
So if you could stop that would be good too.
In edit solely because I was enjoying the thread "benrums0n, I personally think either a) you are picking for the sake of it or b) far too fragile to be involved in anything that resembles a discussion, it seems to me that you are twisting comments to suit an agenda. "
If that aint personal what is?

25 Feb 2009

I havent given any insults.

25 Feb 2009

Quote by kentswingers777
one being to catch people doing things they should not be doing. I back them 100%!!

Had to pick up on this point,
Exactly how do they catch people?
Can camera's arrest and detain a suspect?
Nope, they are only useful 'after the fact' if anyone is concerned about their personal safety might I suggest more uniformed police officers on the streets, is probably the best way to deter the random criminal from commiting a crime in the first place?
We are allegedly the most surveillance heavy society in the world, why? We are watched and catalogued far more already (not to mention the future plans of this government) than most seriously oppressive regimes do to their populations....again under what justification?
If anyone personally does not have a problem with public cctv cameras and taking into account again that most 'serious' crime (Murder, , Child abuse etc)happens within the confines of a domicile, would it be seen as hypocritical to not support the installation and monitoring of cctv within the home?
A famous quote cries out to be used in this case....I'm sure I don't have to say it....

25 Feb 2009

Quote by kentswingers777
I think that if putting cameras in the high streets saves just one life or prevents one or murder and catches just one criminal then they were worth every penny.
I don't have anything to hide when I'm out and about nor do I see keeping people safe as an intrusion of my liberty.
I think money is wasted on far worse things... trams in Edinburgh city centre to name just one.

Bang on the money.
Why do people object so much? I bet if they were mugged or assaulted, they would be the first people to say " why was there no cctv ? "!!
I think that those that moan about them, would moan about anything.
It is there for many reasons, one being to catch people doing things they should not be doing. I back them 100%!!
Pretty much sums up my feelings :thumbup:

25 Feb 2009

It always has seemed to me that the people responsible for all these cameras have read 1984 and thought it a said they really don't bother me that much, they are I realise the thin end of a fucking huge wedge but few people will consider them a violation of their freedoms until they find themselves on the wrong end of further moves to curtail their privacy.
CCTV cameras are a stepping stone on the road to a police state , if we get there I'll sit in my cell laughing at it have no freedom, we have no privacy,we are all slaves to something and all prostitute ourselves to the states demands to a greater or lesser degree.
Ladies and gentlemen it's been said before and I'll say it again ....Rise up you have nothing to lose but your chains.
Seems they bother me more than I thought.
P.S. If you really want to piss "the man" off you do have a right to demand a copy of any cctv footage in which you appear...spanners and works spring to mind

25 Feb 2009

That was Rodney King , Americans dont count as they all think they are in a soap opera anyway
BOOYAH

25 Feb 2009

Quote by staffcple
If anyone personally does not have a problem with public cctv cameras and taking into account again that most 'serious' crime (Murder, , Child abuse etc)happens within the confines of a domicile, would it be seen as hypocritical to not support the installation and monitoring of cctv within the home?
A famous quote cries out to be used in this case....I'm sure I don't have to say it....

:undecided:
There are a load of things that I do in the privacy of my own home that I have no desire to have an audience for. I do not conduct myself in public the same way I do behind closed doors. I have no issues with CCTV in the street where I conduct myself appropriately within my surroundings.
I don't feel that makes me a hypocrite if I'm honest. I hear the point you're making, I just don't agree. :mrgreen:
And if I wanted to have the world watch me have a shit I'd apply to go on Big Brother. I don't so I wouldn't! :mrgreen:
I think maybe you do need to say that quote out loud! wink

Oh... and where have you been? I missed you! kiss

25 Feb 2009

I think you have to giggle thinking half the people who dont like em will be chatting on webcams later on confused

25 Feb 2009

Quote by Silk and Big G
I think you have to giggle thinking half the people who dont like em will be chatting on webcams later on

No doubt.

However they will all be showing you only what they want you to see! :mrgreen:

25 Feb 2009

Quote by Dirtygirly
I think you have to giggle thinking half the people who dont like em will be chatting on webcams later on

No doubt.

However they will all be showing you only what they want you to see! :mrgreen:
Oh i dunno, some of the wallpaper and soft furnishings are atrocious ! Im not always sure they want us to see the ironing and the washing up piled in the sink either.

25 Feb 2009

Quote by Silk and Big G
I think you have to giggle thinking half the people who dont like em will be chatting on webcams later on

No doubt.

However they will all be showing you only what they want you to see! :mrgreen:
Oh i dunno, some of the wallpaper and soft furnishings are atrocious ! Im not always sure they want us to see the ironing and the washing up piled in the sink either.
Or the socks still on... but that's still within their comfort zone. If they didn't want you to see the washing then they'd move it. And if the wallpaper was hideous to them, they'd redecorate. They don't care what you think of their wallpaper... you don't live with it, nor do you have to look! :wink:

25 Feb 2009

Quote by benrums0n
I have done absolutely no research into this so I will be enthralled by any opinions expressed.
I feel uncomfortable with the whole concept of being filmed and I wish the government and local authorities would stop doing it.
I can see that live surveillance of ones citizens may have some benefits. I think these are outweighed by the expense and the intrusion into my liberty.
To me, being filmed as I walk down the high street is as much of an invasion as insisting I have a live video cam in my living room.
What do you think?

May I ask Ben, do you use credit or debit cards? Do you shop online and then get "recommendations" for future products? Do you have a loyalty card for a major retailer?
It's just there are waaaaay many more ways than CCTV that you are being observed/catalogued/watched/analysed.
Why get narked by CCTV which, let's face it, does have safety benefits?
By simply using the internet regularly you are "on the grid" and being noted.
Nola x

25 Feb 2009

Quote by Maxhardcore1
Its swings and roundabouts really!!(some agree with them some dont)
Apparently they're there to reduce crime and protect civilians.
But if you ask me the best way to cut crime is to put more cops on the street, but since that is "hard work" for the goverment they've taken the easy option of installing CCTV every 2 yards!!
They dont bother me the slightest, i know ive done nothing wrong and dont intend to!!

Going just off topic for a mo.....but that avata picture, has well............done it for me. What a butt. redface

Sorry for the hijack.

25 Feb 2009

Quote by benrums0n
Aye third man I used to do that as a teen on Chelmsley Wood too.
And Kenty I quote
"I think that those that moan about them, would moan about anything. "
Keep away from the personal jibes please. In case you feel I am being overly sensitive imagine if in response to a thread you had posted moaning about scroungers I responded " I think people who moan about scroungers are pig ignorant. " How would you feel?

I really would not give a toss matey.
It was not a personnel jibe at you at all. You must be getting paranoid with all this posting your doing....take a chill pill FGS.
If you cannot stand the heat, leave the kitchen!!

25 Feb 2009

Kent.
Yes boss right away boss anything else boss.
Nola
No I don't do any of those things apart from the inter web where I strive to keep a half dozen identities on the go. Good points to make tho. Oh Ive taken that Corrections book out of the library TY.

25 Feb 2009

Quote by benrums0n
Kent.
Yes boss right away boss anything else boss.
Nola
No I don't do any of those things apart from the inter web where I strive to keep a half dozen identities on the go. Good points to make tho. Oh Ive taken that Corrections book out of the library TY.

If your quest is to live "off the grid" then google the elusive author John Twelve Hawks...
wink

25 Feb 2009

I tried finding that book you recommended today and the bloody reservation system was down. Ty for the heads up.

25 Feb 2009

I've always felt CCTV to be a bit 'Big Brother' ( a la Orwell not the tv shite ) until my son was mugged 2 days before last Christmas. I was hoping there were cameras in the area to identify the bastard who did it but sadly not.
Now, I'd happily see them on every street mad

26 Feb 2009

Just for you DG as you asked so nicely....
They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety.
Benjamin Franklin.
Thanks for your lovely comment, I never been missed before wink

26 Feb 2009

Isn't the next step photo recognition and cross checking with the biometric passport photo database - the next generation to the cameras they are using for numberplate recognition?
Biometrics isn't an exact science as the present time and too heavy reliance on these methods can, and has, put innocent people in jail.
Now then, to expand this theorem, is it better to hang one innocent man in a quest to clear up crime than allow one guilty one to go free?

26 Feb 2009

Quote by kentswingers777
Its swings and roundabouts really!!(some agree with them some dont)
Apparently they're there to reduce crime and protect civilians.
But if you ask me the best way to cut crime is to put more cops on the street, but since that is "hard work" for the goverment they've taken the easy option of installing CCTV every 2 yards!!
They dont bother me the slightest, i know ive done nothing wrong and dont intend to!!

Going just off topic for a mo.....but that avata picture, has well............done it for me. What a butt. redface

Sorry for the hijack.
Kenty love.......do you know that is a mans botty?? wink

I think....the profile is anyway!!!

26 Feb 2009

Quote by noladreams30
I have done absolutely no research into this so I will be enthralled by any opinions expressed.
I feel uncomfortable with the whole concept of being filmed and I wish the government and local authorities would stop doing it.
I can see that live surveillance of ones citizens may have some benefits. I think these are outweighed by the expense and the intrusion into my liberty.
To me, being filmed as I walk down the high street is as much of an invasion as insisting I have a live video cam in my living room.
What do you think?

May I ask Ben, do you use credit or debit cards? Do you shop online and then get "recommendations" for future products? Do you have a loyalty card for a major retailer?
It's just there are waaaaay many more ways than CCTV that you are being observed/catalogued/watched/analysed.
Why get narked by CCTV which, let's face it, does have safety benefits?
By simply using the internet regularly you are "on the grid" and being noted.
Nola xDo you have an Ouster Card, do you use the a phone other than a public payphone, do you have any store cards, reward card. There is a lot of information floating around about us all. In balance, we find it useful. CCTV is useful.

26 Feb 2009

Quote by Lucyandmike7
Its swings and roundabouts really!!(some agree with them some dont)
Apparently they're there to reduce crime and protect civilians.
But if you ask me the best way to cut crime is to put more cops on the street, but since that is "hard work" for the goverment they've taken the easy option of installing CCTV every 2 yards!!
They dont bother me the slightest, i know ive done nothing wrong and dont intend to!!

Going just off topic for a mo.....but that avata picture, has well............done it for me. What a butt. redface

Sorry for the hijack.
Kenty love.......do you know that is a mans botty?? wink

I think....the profile is anyway!!!
OMG. :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock:
I knew I should have kept my appointment at Specsavers. :shock: :shock: :shock:
My appologies to one and all, and to ignore my previous post.

26 Feb 2009

My money's on it being a girls botty- judging by the op's name it's from something motor sports related.
Still, why worry? If it floats yer boat it floats yer boat...

26 Feb 2009

Quote by staffcple
Just for you DG as you asked so nicely....
They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety.
Benjamin Franklin.
Thanks for your lovely comment, I never been missed before

You're welcome! kiss

Thanks for sharing... but I'm not giving up my liberty for saftey... or at least that's not how I view it. :wink:

26 Feb 2009

All data held by the home office (UK) on uk citizens is "shared" with the state dept (USA).
Recently passed legislation allows all gov departments to share information with other departments, and with outside parties if required.
It can now be an offence to photograph police officers, and members of the armed forces.
Details of your children, and you, are to be held on the contactpoint database. Information to be stored on the database will include the child's name, identification number, sex, date of birth, address, parents' contact details, GP contact details, health visitor contact details, school details, school nurse contact details, youth worker contact details, social worker contact details, "sensitive service" contact details concerning sex, drugs or mental health, and a "common assessment framework indicator" for children with "unmet needs".
Details of politicians children will not be stored, nor will details of senior civil servants and senior police be stored. The number of people with access to sensitive personal data is currently estimated at over half a million.
A family from Norfolk, who had their children kidnapped by the state, after false allegations of mistreatment, will never see those children again. They were adopted. The allegations were proven false by the police. The children will never be returned to their parents, the parents will never be allowed to see them or know if they are ok.
Still happy with "society".
Still trust "them" to do the right thing ?
I don't trust "them" to do anything other than they do now, be very well paid nonentities.

26 Feb 2009

Quote by Dirtygirly
but I'm not giving up my liberty for saftey... or at least that's not how I view it.

Maybe not in any obvious way, but little by little, piece by piece you are giving countless organisations and individuals access to every snippet of information ever collected and stored about you. This in the future could include your medical records and infact your very genetic code.
Most of this data currently held is stored on databases managed with no oversight on who accesses it, in fact certain databases (DVLA) have been sold wholesale to marketing companies. Not to mention the countless memory sticks and laptops left on trains etc.
Future plans include the NHS database, where your medical records will be stored, the proposed DNA database (google prosecutors fallacy and the Arizona Convicted Felons database for some info on how reliable DNA really is as an identification medium) not to mention the absolute farce which will be the ID card database.....now I'd propose that the quote I used is very very pertinent to the last two cases.
As someone else has raised, biometrics is a developing science, one which is still highly fallible and in truth only as reliable as the original source data. Same with ID cards, same with DNA.
Everyone still sure their privacy is respected and protected?
Because to be honest, I'm sure as hell not convinced.....

26 Feb 2009

If you have nothing to hide, you have nothing to fear !