Well, as of midnight tonight the child benefit cuts will be kicking in:
Now I dont consider myself to have any political leaning (apart from a healthy desire to forcibly remove the BNP from existence) but personally, I think this has been long a overdue reform to an outdated benefit...
Thoughts?
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Child benefit cuts
Quote by kiwiparadox
Well, as of midnight tonight the child benefit cuts will be kicking in:
Now I dont consider myself to have any political leaning (apart from a healthy desire to forcibly remove the BNP from existence) but personally, I think this has been long a overdue reform to an outdated benefit...
Thoughts?
Well I would rather British people got this benefit, than people who have decided to work here but leave their children at home in a foreign land.
Now I am all for cutting benefits for the less needy, but the sums do not add up. If a person earns as much as a year then they still continue to get the benefit.I know of very few people who earn that kind of money to be honest, but you could have two people earning that each and still get the benefit. Bloody crazy.
But to cut the child benefits for British people whilst giving the benefit to foreign workers whose kids do not even live in the UK is nothing short of fucking bonkers. These people must really think Christmas has come early, or that Britain really is the land of fucking idiots.
Duncan Smith is intent on kicking British people in the nuts whilst giving benefits to people who have contributed very little from abroad. I cannot see the point in giving child benefit to kids who will never set foot inside this country, and yet happily will stop this benefit for people better off, even though these people pay 40% tax. Crazzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzy !!!!
I have to agree with cutting benefits for the well off people. Now where the line is drawn is completely different subject but the general idea sounds good to me.
Whoah there star, why are you presuming that if you are foreigner you have not contributed anything
I am a foreigner and a lot of my friends are foreigners we pay our taxes like there is no tomorrow and see our salaries gone to the tax man just so people like you can tell that we are not entitled to this and that because we are foreigners ?
So we are entitled to pay full taxes and feed the tax man but we should be expected to have no benefits whatsoever.
I do not have a kid but i fail to understand why if i have one and i make the choice to send it over to its grand parents to live with, while i work my ass off and pay my taxes to the last penny i should not be allowed to get benefit. It sounds counter intuitive to me, i pay taxes, i pay road tax, fuel tax , income tax, benefits tax, NI tax and whatever tax there is under the sun and i see a large percent of my salary gone in an instant and the award i get for that is not getting the benefits i pay taxes for ?
If that is the case then i would like to be able to say "I have sent my kid to live in another country I do NOT want child benefits but i also DO NOT WANT TO PAY TAXES that are going towards that fund" in this case it is fair play.
Sincerely,
T
Whoah there star, why are you presuming that if you are foreigner you have not contributed anything
giving benefits to people who have contributed very little from abroadthis sounds awfully presumptuous of you.
I am a foreigner and a lot of my friends are foreigners we pay our taxes like there is no tomorrow and see our salaries gone to the tax man just so people like you can tell that we are not entitled to this and that because we are foreigners ?
So we are entitled to pay full taxes and feed the tax man but we should be expected to have no benefits whatsoever.
I do not have a kid but i fail to understand why if i have one and i make the choice to send it over to its grand parents to live with, while i work my ass off and pay my taxes to the last penny i should not be allowed to get benefit. It sounds counter intuitive to me, i pay taxes, i pay road tax, fuel tax , income tax, benefits tax, NI tax and whatever tax there is under the sun and i see a large percent of my salary gone in an instant and the award i get for that is not getting the benefits i pay taxes for ?
If that is the case then i would like to be able to say "I have sent my kid to live in another country I do NOT want child benefits but i also DO NOT WANT TO PAY TAXES that are going towards that fund" in this case it is fair play.
Sincerely,
T
I see what you are saying but it is utter madness to pay for people's kids that live abroad and were not born in the UK.
Paying your taxes is one thing but why should the British taxpayer pick up the tab for kids who have not even been to this country. Can you not see the madness of that when British people are having to make cuts and yet we pay or help to pay for others children.
I think it wrong completely and why would I expect another country to pay for my kids if I choose to work there? I would not see many British people going to work in Poland so seems a bit like one way traffic at a time when this country apparently can ill afford to do it.
I am sure there are many on here who think it a thoroughly good idea to do this, but there are many who think paying for children is the right thing to do, but I would rather the money stayed in the UK.
Paying your taxes is one thing but why should the British taxpayer pick up the tab for kids who have not even been to this country. Can you not see the madness of that when British people are having to make cuts and yet we pay or help to pay for others children.
I think it wrong completely and why would I expect another country to pay for my kids if I choose to work there? I would not see many British people going to work in Poland so seems a bit like one way traffic at a time when this country apparently can ill afford to do it.
I am sure there are many on here who think it a thoroughly good idea to do this, but there are many who think paying for children is the right thing to do, but I would rather the money stayed in the UK.
Okay i have to whoa again.
Who said anything about kids not born in the UK ? This makes no sense to me sorry, i thought we are talking about British born kids that are sent overseas to live with grandparents or whatever for whatever reasons but still British born with both people living and working in the UK.
If i have my kind born in some other country I would NEVER expect any other country than the one it was born in to pay a bit for helping out with it. This is indeed madness i have to agree here.
But your wording sort of included British born kids so you have to excuse me if i have misunderstood !
Sincerely,
T
Who said anything about kids not born in the UK ? This makes no sense to me sorry, i thought we are talking about British born kids that are sent overseas to live with grandparents or whatever for whatever reasons but still British born with both people living and working in the UK.
If i have my kind born in some other country I would NEVER expect any other country than the one it was born in to pay a bit for helping out with it. This is indeed madness i have to agree here.
But your wording sort of included British born kids so you have to excuse me if i have misunderstood !
Sincerely,
T
Sex God
Personally I feel that child benefit should be paid to everyone with a child. Why should higher earners be less entitled than low earners? However, if it has to be means tested this should not be done by the wage of just one parent. To be fair they have to take the total household income into account. As it stands one person on a wage of £60k gets nothing but if 2 parents each earn £49k they would still be entitled despite having a combined income of £98k. That's just wrong!
Your point regarding paying child benefit to foreigners is debatable and we are not the only country to do this. I think it is circumstantial.
For example, I have 3 children, one born in Germany, one born in Belgium and one born in UK. We lived abroad with our children for a long time and still received UK child benefit for all 3 despite where they we're born. We were serving in the forces and so still paying UK tax. Despite being born abroad they all have only ever had a British passport. When we lived in Germany we were also entitled to German kindergeld (their equivalent of our child benefit) although we paid no tax to the Germans (except the usual paid on shopping). The children had to be resident in Germany though. I don't know if you can still claim for this as we returned to UK 5 years ago. I thought it was wrong but everyone claimed and it seemed a perk of the job. No one turns away free money!
I believe that if a person is contributing to our economy by paying their taxes and they have children living with them then they should be entitled to claim child benefit, no matter where the child is born. If the child is not resident in the UK then they shouldn't be entitled (with the exception of British forces families or the like who are still paying UK taxes). Why should we be paying for children that aren't even here?
Wow ... I've written an essay, and about politics!! I never saw that one coming!
Your point regarding paying child benefit to foreigners is debatable and we are not the only country to do this. I think it is circumstantial.
For example, I have 3 children, one born in Germany, one born in Belgium and one born in UK. We lived abroad with our children for a long time and still received UK child benefit for all 3 despite where they we're born. We were serving in the forces and so still paying UK tax. Despite being born abroad they all have only ever had a British passport. When we lived in Germany we were also entitled to German kindergeld (their equivalent of our child benefit) although we paid no tax to the Germans (except the usual paid on shopping). The children had to be resident in Germany though. I don't know if you can still claim for this as we returned to UK 5 years ago. I thought it was wrong but everyone claimed and it seemed a perk of the job. No one turns away free money!
I believe that if a person is contributing to our economy by paying their taxes and they have children living with them then they should be entitled to claim child benefit, no matter where the child is born. If the child is not resident in the UK then they shouldn't be entitled (with the exception of British forces families or the like who are still paying UK taxes). Why should we be paying for children that aren't even here?
Wow ... I've written an essay, and about politics!! I never saw that one coming!
Quote by Funlovers2009
Personally I feel that child benefit should be paid to everyone with a child. Why should higher earners be less entitled than low earners? However, if it has to be means tested this should not be done by the wage of just one parent. To be fair they have to take the total household income into account. As it stands one person on a wage of £60k gets nothing but if 2 parents each earn £49k they would still be entitled despite having a combined income of £98k. That's just wrong!
Your point regarding paying child benefit to foreigners is debatable and we are not the only country to do this. I think it is circumstantial.
For example, I have 3 children, one born in Germany, one born in Belgium and one born in UK. We lived abroad with our children for a long time and still received UK child benefit for all 3 despite where they we're born. We were serving in the forces and so still paying UK tax. Despite being born abroad they all have only ever had a British passport. When we lived in Germany we were also entitled to German kindergeld (their equivalent of our child benefit) although we paid no tax to the Germans (except the usual paid on shopping). The children had to be resident in Germany though. I don't know if you can still claim for this as we returned to UK 5 years ago. I thought it was wrong but everyone claimed and it seemed a perk of the job. No one turns away free money!
I believe that if a person is contributing to our economy by paying their taxes and they have children living with them then they should be entitled to claim child benefit, no matter where the child is born. If the child is not resident in the UK then they shouldn't be entitled (with the exception of British forces families or the like who are still paying UK taxes). Why should we be paying for children that aren't even here?
Wow ... I've written an essay, and about politics!! I never saw that one coming!
Good points made Funlovers.
I think not being resident in the UK is perfectly put, which is what my link was implying.
Sex God
It is a ridiculous benefit anyway and hopefully this is just the first step to getting rid of it altogether.
You want kids? Make sure you can afford them.
You want kids? Make sure you can afford them.
Sex God
Quote by Too Hot
It is a ridiculous benefit anyway and hopefully this is just the first step to getting rid of it altogether.
You want kids? Make sure you can afford them.
Agreed.
Or, just cap the benefit so that it's only paid for up to two children. And also agree that it should only be paid for children resident in the UK, whose parents are paying UK taxes(or those in HM Forces).
Sex God
I hope they scrap it all together the day after my youngest leaves home.
Quote by gulsonroad30664
scrapping or cutting benefits will be the begining of major civil unrest. less cash in circulation means less jobs, less tax revenue not more and further reduction in economic activity.
It isnt tax revenue if you are only re-collecting back what you orginally paid out as a benefit.
Someone can correct me here - But wasnt the "Child Benefit" initiated just after the second world war to promote having children after the massive losses of the war?
EDIT - Yes, (in a way)
This really is an out-dated benefit. Despite what many people believe, you have a right to have children but *not* a right to have them supported if you chose to do so... its lunacy, as the same argument can be applied to any choice in life.
Want children? Make sure you can afford to do so......
Sex God
Quote by gulsonroad30664
scrapping or cutting benefits will be the begining of major civil unrest. less cash in circulation means less jobs, less tax revenue not more and further reduction in economic activity.
Flawed opinion. The cash was taken out of circulation at source anyway.
Here is another opinion, mine - All benefits should be scrapped and replaced with tax benefits to encourage earning money rather than taking benefits.
Sex God
Quote by starlightcouple
Well I would rather British people got this benefit, than people who have decided to work here but leave their children at home in a foreign land.
Now I am all for cutting benefits for the less needy, but the sums do not add up. If a person earns as much as a year then they still continue to get the benefit.I know of very few people who earn that kind of money to be honest, but you could have two people earning that each and still get the benefit. Bloody crazy.
But to cut the child benefits for British people whilst giving the benefit to foreign workers whose kids do not even live in the UK is nothing short of fucking bonkers. These people must really think Christmas has come early, or that Britain really is the land of fucking idiots.
Duncan Smith is intent on kicking British people in the nuts whilst giving benefits to people who have contributed very little from abroad. I cannot see the point in giving child benefit to kids who will never set foot inside this country, and yet happily will stop this benefit for people better off, even though these people pay 40% tax. Crazzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzy !!!!
Trust you to find something to wave a nationalist flag about. I don't agree with child benefit at all but if these people are working in this country and contributing by paying tax then they should have a right to the services that all tax payers have.
As a personal aside, did you ever wonder how it came to be that all these foreigners came here and got these jobs whilst the native populatioon was lying around complaining how bad their life was? Nothing stopped the native English getting those same jobs and becoming taxpayers themselves - they just chose not to.
There are many parts of the tax and benefits system that I fundamentally disagree with but as long as it is there then all tax payers who contribute via tax and NI should get the same benefits in return.
Quote by flower411
It was exactly that ! Encouragement to have more children.
Was it? Why would that be? When it was introduced and even now to be fair, the money given does not get close to how much it costs to raise a child. £20 a week now in 2013 is hardly enough, but it is supposed to help to pay for the ' essentials '. The benefit was indeed not paid to the first child but subsequent ones which does seem a bit odd to me. But that was obviously changed in the information below.
I think that the money paid is hardly an incentive to become a baby machine.:doh:
Quote by flower411
Child benefit was not even paid for the first child, no idea when that changed.
In the UK, child benefit is administered by Her Majesty's Revenue and Customs (HMRC). As of April 2010, per week is paid for the first child (including the eldest of a multiple birth) and per week is paid for each additional child. The same amount is currently paid without reference to earnings or savings, although this will change from 2013. More than 80% of children are in families also eligible for means-tested child tax credit.
The system was first implemented in August 1946 as "family allowances" under the Family Allowances Act 1945, at a rate of 5s (= ) per week per child in a family, except for the eldest. This was raised from September 1952, by the Family Allowances and National Insurance Act 1952, to 8s (= ), and from October 1956, by the Family Allowances Act and National Insurance Act 1956, to 8s for the second child with 10s (= ) for the third and subsequent children. By 1955, some 5,000,000 allowances were being paid, to about 3,250,000 families.
It was modified in 1977, with the payments being termed "child benefit" and given for the eldest child as well as the younger ones; by 1979 it was worth £4 per child per week. In 1991, the system was further altered, with a higher payment now given for the first child than for their younger siblings. In October 2010, the Conservative-Liberal Democrat coalition government announced that Child Benefit would be withdrawn from households containing a higher-rate taxpayer from January 2013.
Quote by Too Hot
Trust you to find something to wave a nationalist flag about.
Forever the easy to read Too Hot.
Quote by Too Hot
I don't agree with child benefit at all but if these people are working in this country and contributing by paying tax then they should have a right to the services that all tax payers have.
Once again no suprises from you. So your saying that a person who has children living abroad, who were not born here or even stepped a single foot into this country are indeed entitled to child benefit? What really? What when people who are born here are now having the austerity thrown at them by taking even more money from them, but seems we have enough for foreign aid and foreign children. I come from the simple school of economics where we look after our own before anything or anyone else.
Did not realise that made me a Nationalist.
Quote by Too Hot
As a personal aside, did you ever wonder how it came to be that all these foreigners came here and got these jobs whilst the native populatioon was lying around complaining how bad their life was? Nothing stopped the native English getting those same jobs and becoming taxpayers themselves - they just chose not to.
You have been reading too many Guardian reports my friend. You have been reading the IDS ideology on how to screw the lowest earners in favour of giving it back to the richer in society. You know the Range Rover brigade.
Quote by Too Hot
There are many parts of the tax and benefits system that I fundamentally disagree with but as long as it is there then all tax payers who contribute via tax and NI should get the same benefits in return.
We shall have to agree to disagree. :bounce: Now that is the one thing on here that does not suprise me.
Quote by kiwi
It isnt tax revenue if you are only re-collecting back what you orginally paid out as a benefit
Not quite.
If that were the case, you would be limited to the sum total of your contribution which, AFAIK, is not the case. Generally, claimants benefit from payments way in excess of their contributions.
Warming the Bed
The UK government is insolvent in all but name and the only thing they can think of is getting rid of a few benefits. It truly is rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic well after it has struck the iceberg.
If anyone has any pounds saved then buy anything with it, gold, silver, bricks and mortar, farm land, other currencies (swiss franc, aussie dollar, canadian dollar) anything that will store value as the only way the UK is ever going to pay off its debt is by massive I mean 1970's style massive inflation. This child benefit cut is a tiny tiny tiny step in the right direction but look at the fuss that is happening over it.
No modern country has got itself out of the financial hole that the USA and Western Europe are in now without a major war.
Anyway on that cheery note I shall end :twisted:
If anyone has any pounds saved then buy anything with it, gold, silver, bricks and mortar, farm land, other currencies (swiss franc, aussie dollar, canadian dollar) anything that will store value as the only way the UK is ever going to pay off its debt is by massive I mean 1970's style massive inflation. This child benefit cut is a tiny tiny tiny step in the right direction but look at the fuss that is happening over it.
No modern country has got itself out of the financial hole that the USA and Western Europe are in now without a major war.
Anyway on that cheery note I shall end :twisted:
Quote by bayboy1664
The UK government is insolvent in all but name and the only thing they can think of is getting rid of a few benefits. It truly is rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic well after it has struck the iceberg.
If anyone has any pounds saved then buy anything with it, gold, silver, bricks and mortar, farm land, other currencies (swiss franc, aussie dollar, canadian dollar) anything that will store value as the only way the UK is ever going to pay off its debt is by massive I mean 1970's style massive inflation. This child benefit cut is a tiny tiny tiny step in the right direction but look at the fuss that is happening over it.
No modern country has got itself out of the financial hole that the USA and Western Europe are in now without a major war.
Anyway on that cheery note I shall end :twisted:
Is that you Gulson in disguise?
Consider the situation where a couple remarry and one of them earns over the limit but the mother earns considerably under the limit....is it fair to cut the CHILD benefit because the mother has remarried ? Where in the marriage contract does it say that the guy has taken on financial responsibility for someone elses kids ? The mum still earns diddly and has the responsibility,.....
Odd, innit !!!
Odd, innit !!!
Quote by Too Hot
It is a ridiculous benefit anyway and hopefully this is just the first step to getting rid of it altogether.
You want kids? Make sure you can afford them.
I can afford them. What gets me is the amount HMRC takes off me to hand out other benefits to people who have no intention of getting a job. Thought that would be a better place to start cutting benefits.
sometimes i wish i was able to give birth to kids.
then i could live off the state, get a council house, get fat watching daytime tv slagging of men with jeremy kyle.
and not have to work either.
to many bone idle lazy sods who think everything should be handed to them on a plate.
who's only motivation is to go to the job centre, moan and then go back home with a joint and sit playing video games.
in the downturn i worked 2 jobs and now run a business. because i wanted to work and got off my backside.
made sacrifices which were very hard and had to sell most of the things i owned to raise the capital but i stuck with it.
people expect handout after handout not just single woman, but people from all walks of life.
jobs are out there. and if it means you have to work 2 jobs you do it.
to many sponges abusing the system and im pleased if a few get kicked into line.
its been to easy for to long and if i sound hard then tough. because life is hard!
then i could live off the state, get a council house, get fat watching daytime tv slagging of men with jeremy kyle.
and not have to work either.
to many bone idle lazy sods who think everything should be handed to them on a plate.
who's only motivation is to go to the job centre, moan and then go back home with a joint and sit playing video games.
in the downturn i worked 2 jobs and now run a business. because i wanted to work and got off my backside.
made sacrifices which were very hard and had to sell most of the things i owned to raise the capital but i stuck with it.
people expect handout after handout not just single woman, but people from all walks of life.
jobs are out there. and if it means you have to work 2 jobs you do it.
to many sponges abusing the system and im pleased if a few get kicked into line.
its been to easy for to long and if i sound hard then tough. because life is hard!
Quote by tyracer
sometimes i wish i was able to give birth to kids.
then i could live off the state, get a council house, get fat watching daytime tv slagging of men with jeremy kyle.
and not have to work either.
Really? Who does this exactly? Not the Sun or Daily Mail telling these right wing fairy tale stories is it? Have you got an ounce of evidence that supports your ' claims ' at all?
Quote by tyracer
to many bone idle lazy sods who think everything should be handed to them on a plate.
who's only motivation is to go to the job centre, moan and then go back home with a joint and sit playing video games.
I must be one of those bone idle lazy sods, as since being made redundant I have struggled to find any suitable work. Does that make me a scrounger after 20 years of continuous work??
Quote by tyracer
in the downturn i worked 2 jobs and now run a business. because i wanted to work and got off my backside.
made sacrifices which were very hard and had to sell most of the things i owned to raise the capital but i stuck with it.
Not every person who does not have two jobs on the go or the little bit of luck to have their own business, is a lazy good for nothing fucker you know.
Quote by tyracer
people expect handout after handout not just single woman, but people from all walks of life.
jobs are out there. and if it means you have to work 2 jobs you do it.
to many sponges abusing the system and im pleased if a few get kicked into line.
its been to easy for to long and if i sound hard then tough. because life is hard!
I find your comments rude and hypocritical to be honest, and you must be a very lucky person as with most businesses out there, if a person had spelling and grammar as bad as yours usually it would lead to zero clients. My spelling is bad enough but I got off my lazy backside and learned how to use the spell checker....but then again being a lazy git I had the time on my hands to learn. I really do not mean to be rude but frankly your lopsided view of the jobless is rather outstandingly obnoxious.
Gissa job, as old Yosser used to ask.
Quote by northwest-cpl
I always wonder why people that scream so loudly about how easy it is to live on benefits and how hard it is to make a living wage don't just join the gravy train and sign on.
Because as I suspect...things are never quite as they seem.
But then again I am obviously one of those lazy sods who sits on my arse all day raking in the benefits. :doh: so what the feck do I know?
Sex God
Quote by starlightcouple
I always wonder why people that scream so loudly about how easy it is to live on benefits and how hard it is to make a living wage don't just join the gravy train and sign on.
Because as I suspect...things are never quite as they seem.
But then again I am obviously one of those lazy sods who sits on my arse all day raking in the benefits. :doh: so what the feck do I know?
Start your own business if you have time on your hands... Your potential is only limited by your own imagination. I started a new business at 50 years old - best thing I ever did and earned more in the last two months of last year than in a whole year in my previous job.
Can't wait to pay my Corporation Tax and bank the dividend ... lol
