Our daughter is at high school and she wears a tie and blazer. She didn't like it at first, but there are many things in life that we don't like and have to adapt to. The school had stipulated that clip on ties must be worn for safety concerns. As far as I can tell the only concern is for the safety of the school if one of the little cherubs accidentally gets strangled! The uniform policy also covers what they can wear for non-classroom activities, such as PE, art and other practical hands on subjects. However the uniforms are smart, robust and practical so I support the strict policy the school has. They also discipline children who don't meet the uniform standards, by reducing their lunch breaks, detentions etc.
GnV has mentioned Police and ambulance service uniforms. Like most forms of workwear these uniforms are subject to legislation such as the Health and Safety Act, the Personal Protective Equipment at work Regulations, CoSHH, Provision and Use of Work Equipment Regulations, and other professional or organisational requirements. School uniforms however are usually a matter for the headteacher, board or controlling authority and have no minimum requirements.
Which brings us back to the initial question. If the school wants to concentrate on education and discipline then a strict uniform policy is essential. If children are uniform then no one can become a target for not having the best trainers etc. Surely removing opportunities for bullying helps to maintain discipline.
I think there are more pros to a school uniform that cons.
Competitiveness these days is far worse than when I went to school or even when my children went to school.
Uniforms help prevent that situation of whether your shirt came from primark or armani, wether your trainers are Asda or Nike, I think parents and children alike need that assistance in not having to compete.
Uniforms can make a bond, help you feel part of a team.
Uniforms are no longer more expensive than other clothes parents may have to buy, with supermarket chains and the like providing a new outlet for parents to buy affordable attire.
I do believe uniforms should be practical, girls should have the option of wearing trousers in winter, boys should have the option of not wearing a blazer in hot summers. jumpers should be an option etc
Uniforms should be standard in design within the normal state education system with only a tie for the boys and short scarf (cravat like for the girls in school colours.
But it is a long time since I was at school or indeed my children so I am going to listen to the 21st century arguments for and against them.
Clip on ties, I loved them, used to buy them from tie rack and found them very handy, the knot was always correct and balanced, easily removable and can see how on a playground your tie could not be used against you as a weapon.
Insisting that they are the only type used is not necessary, parents should see that they are more practicle and therefore buy them when they can afford them.
Nothing at all wrong is a school having a uniform policy.
One of the main reason kids all wear the same uniform is to stop one boy from wearing his Armani jeans and another boy from wearing blue washed Tesco jeans. It is all about conforming and the schools policy and rightly so, should be that all kids attend school looking smart. Remember also that EVERY parent will have to sign a form stating from day one that their child WILL wear the uniform that the school wants the child to wear. No parent can complain as they signed on the dotted line.
Clip on ties I believe are better anyway as half the boys in my school could not do a tie to save their little skins, but by having a clip on tie, everyone will all have to conform so no taking the mickey as they would then be taking the mickey out of themselves and that is the point of uniform.
The school uniform is part of the discipline at school as kids don't want to wear it but have too. Education is the name of what the school does and it is a secondary issue to school attire.
Wearing a uniform is part of the education, it is teaching them that they belong to a team that is the school, that sometimes in life it is necessary to wear clothes/uniforms you may not like, uniforms are common in many jobs that they will go on to perform, even the shelf fillers at Asda wear uniforms, a great % of people where a uniform of one sort or another at work, uniform/suitable clothing it is the same thing.
Education is not always what you learn at a desk as we all know.
Those responsible for education also have to ensure that those they are educating can do so without the pressure of what they are wearing as opposed to what their friends are wearing.
What is actually wrong with wearing a uniform to school be it with a clip on tie or without a clip on tie?
It seems that one by one principles long established ones at that, want to be got rid of in the name of ' moving forward ' or it just simply is not hip hop anymore.
As I have stated already, EVERY parent will have signed the school's charter and will expect to abide by it. The school have the right to say a child has to wear the uniform in that school. If the school says clip on ties, then so be it. As Mids rightly states it is about being part of a team, but also that everyone wears the same uniform so no bullying on the clothes front. Blimey school uniform nowadays is cheaper than your normal clothes anyway so certainly no arguments where cost is concerned.
The schools make the rules and the parents sign the charter. Don't like it? Then move on as all schools adopt the same attitudes to uniform as far as I know.
We get issued clip on and normal ties at work.
The problem with a normal tie is unless it is worn properly, it looks scruffy, IE, top button undone and tie half way down your neck.
I choose a clip on for work, and a normal tie for weddings/funerals etc etc, with a full windsor knot.
Where did I say that uniforms/clothing was the sole cause of bullying Foxy?
By all means 'bless my innocent heart' in such a condescending manner all you like, but I still believe in 'removing opportunities' for bullying. If just one child escapes the cruelty that bullying inflicts by having a uniform policy then it has achieved something.
Of course, there are many other reasons why people are bullied, and it doesn't just stop at the school gates. It continues to feature at every stage through life. But that isn't a reason why schools should not try to reduce just one cause is it?
Apology accepted.
I've suffered bullying too, but only in my adult life. It's not called bullying though, it's called racism. There is fuck all you can do about the colour of your skin or your genetic make up, but you do have the opportunity as an adult of trying to prevent some misery on the next generation. It's quite clear that you feel that uniformity does nothing at all to prevent bullying. it is even more clear that you don't even think it's worthwhile as just one counter measure to bullies. We will just have to disagree.
My son was bullied very badly. He was physically thrown of the school bus. I had letters from the school complaining that he had hit someone - I found out from the other children that he had been fighting off a group of bigger lads who, every day that week, had taken his school bag and emptied it over the outside steps. Did I get a letter about this or what they were going to do about it? Did I buggery.
The school's answer was to put HIM under the school psych person trying to teach him how to cope with the bullies (which meant to accept what they were doing to him without making a fuss that the teachers would have to actually deal with). No bully was EVER punished for their violence to my son. No, in that school nothing had changed in the last 30 years at all. They have an anti-bullying policy and if you complain that your child is bullied, they will send you a copy. That, apparently, concluded their responsibility. Do I sound bitter? Are you surprised? It took him learning Judo, growing 6 inches and decking the bullies a few times for them to lay off the physical stuff. The emotional bullying continued.
I'm going to have to walk away from this thread - it's too upsetting. If you feel that forcing children to conform, conform, conform is good for them, fine - I don't.
I think clip on ties are simply showing kids that there are easy get arounds. If you have to wear school uniform wouldnt it be best to set high standards and therefore teach them from the start how important they are. I wore school uniform at secondary that had to have a double windsor and button done up within school too.
I thought it lessens bullying personally, no easy targets for any if all are in the same gear. I think everyone has a few moments through school with others. Although no need for any at all, if you deal with it and stop it in its tracks, you learnt a very valuable life lesson too.
Schools have a minefield to cross these days with bullying. Not sure if your parents pulling up with you to report it would make it far worse for you or do anything at all. Its funny that those bullying are the most scared too .. its just taking that one time to give it back that makes it stop. Now FB and internet stuff has taken over and is far more worrying i think.
My daughter is in y5 now and thankfully not had to break out the guns for any bullies so far. Just the thought is horrid and any here that has experienced that have my absolute hope its resolved already.
Isnt the school regardless of uniform policy more likely to have bullying? I appreciate some people cant but I researched all the local ones before sending my girl to school. Which involved a change of postcode to do so, as parents, surely we have responsibility for our children which must include finding out if we are sending them into the school equivalent of Afghanistan.
Every kid faces challenges all through school .. some tough, some horrid. I want to guide mines through them but dont want to interfere every day and cause her more and longer to learn from them.
Surely uniform thats the same for all from the same shop is better than none and turning up with a lidl bag for books and giving them the easy option ..
I got told, hit the biggest one hard and then take a hiding perhaps. They wont come near you afterwards .. did so, took one .. and its the truth too.
Difficult subject though, hope all suffering any are dealing with too and more worried after this post than ever too
J
