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common sense or social cleansing

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Quote by starlightcouple

But then the country as a whole is hardly awash with folk claiming a couple of grand a month in benefits.

indeed not ben eh :doh:

unless of course you are now disputing the figures from the Department for Work and Pensions ? or unless of course you think households is not a lot?
so there you go ben. hard cold facts, and not an out of date opinion that you have given.
unless of course it was just an assumption dunno
seems so innocent
Oh Dear Star,
If your going to quote a newspaper, at least get it right
:doh:
"50,000 households were entitled to more £500 a week (over £26,000 a year)"
the 100,000 they mention are households who receive benefits and tax credits worth more than £23,244 a year, so simple maths will tell you that of this 100,000 then 50,000 of them are are on more than £23,244 but less than £26,000, and 50,000 (rather than your 100,000 assumption/assertion) are on more than £26,000.
However Star, seems your in good company as Iain Duncan Smith, the Work and Pensions secretary, said benefits were so complex that people needed a degree in maths to work out
Must ask Michael Grove @ Educashun if maths teaching is really this bad
lol
One aspect the DWP did say was families could claim this amount if they were on a combination of incapacity benefit/employment and support allowance, job seekers' allowance, housing benefit, council benefit, working tax credits and child benefit.
Though having said that the House of Lords has today defeated, after 5 days of debate, the government proposal to include Child Benefit within the £26,000-a-year cap on benefits.
Now forgive me if wrong, but isn't Job Seekers only paid to those actively seeking work and it's also means tested as well.
"is a benefit paid to eligible people who are currently unemployed and looking for work"
Also Child Benefit is universal, though at last plans to restrict it to up to a set earnings cap so higher rate taxpayers are not eligible, will stop those highly paid bankers, journalists, MPs, etc. being able to claim it
:thumbup:
Quote by HnS
Oh Dear Star,
If your going to quote a newspaper, at least get it right
:doh:

do excuse me hns.
the article states " New figures from the Department for Work and Pensions show that there are 100,000 households who receive benefits and tax credits worth more than £23,244 a year !".
Quote by i was answering ben who
"but then the country as a whole is hardly awash with folk claiming a couple of grand a month in benefits. A fantastic piece of spin doctoring yet again"

a couple of grand a month works out at a year. ok not the figure of but are you being that fussy over
2 x 12 = 24. even i do not need a degree to work that one out. calculators are wonderful inventions lol
Quote by HnS
Now forgive me if wrong, but isn't Job Seekers only paid to those actively seeking work and it's also means tested as well.

sorry to be a pain hns but your are correct, you are wrong as there are two kinds of jsa benefit.
Contributory JSA" This type of JSA is paid for the first 6 months of unemployment, if you have paid enough National Insurance contributions in the past two tax years before you claim. You cannot get contributions based JSA if you have only been paying NI contributions for self-employment .
Income-based JSA " This benefit is paid after 6 months when contributory JSA runs out or immediately if you have not paid enough contributions to qualify for contributory JSA ".
on both of these yes you have to be eligible for work. :thumbup: hope that helps

'Fair'
But Lib Dem leader and Deputy Prime Minister Mr Clegg said on Tuesday he was a "strong supporter" of the cap, as were the "vast majority" of people, because it was "fair to say you can't receive more in benefits than if you were to earn £35,000 before tax".
He added: "That's the simple principle which we will stick to and we will make sure that any amendments in the Lords that make that impossible will be reversed."
It really is alarming to see the amount of envy benefits invoke in some people
Quote by Staggerlee_BB
It really is alarming to see the amount of envy benefits invoke in some people

I do not imagine the Lib Dem leader, Deputy Prime Minister Mr Clegg is envious of the benefits, yet he see's this as fair. I for sure do not envy them, if I did I would give up working and join them.
There may be some who are envious, but I suspect most see it more about fairness rather than envy
If you have a system where you can earn more in benefits than many who are working, and earning the national average, then that to me is crazy situation.
Quote by Bluefish2009
It really is alarming to see the amount of envy benefits invoke in some people

I do not imagine the Lib Dem leader, Deputy Prime Minister Mr Clegg is envious of the benefits, yet he see's this as fair. I for sure do not envy them, if I did I would give up working and join them.
There may be some who are envious, but I suspect most see it more about fairness rather than envy
If you have a system where you can earn more in benefits than many who are working, and earning the national average, then that to me is crazy situation.
Oh but Blue I have been so often told that mine are the politics of envy .... even a cursory glance at this thread would suggest that there are some people in here that are in for a very expensive glazing bill
So here's a suggestion ..... perhaps the problem is that the average wage is too low,not that benefits are too high,got any ideas about how that situation could be rectified ??? I have
Quote by Staggerlee_BB
It really is alarming to see the amount of envy benefits invoke in some people

I do not imagine the Lib Dem leader, Deputy Prime Minister Mr Clegg is envious of the benefits, yet he see's this as fair. I for sure do not envy them, if I did I would give up working and join them.
There may be some who are envious, but I suspect most see it more about fairness rather than envy
If you have a system where you can earn more in benefits than many who are working, and earning the national average, then that to me is crazy situation.
Oh but Blue I have been so often told that mine are the politics of envy .... even a cursory glance at this thread would suggest that there are some people in here that are in for a very expensive glazing bill
So here's a suggestion ..... perhaps the problem is that the average wage is too low,not that benefits are too high,got any ideas about how that situation could be rectified ??? I have
Maybe you should quit engineering and run for Parliament then, if your ideas are good enough people may even vote for you?
Quote by Bluefish2009
Maybe you should quit engineering and run for Parliament then, if your ideas are good enough people may even vote for you?

rotflmao:rotflmao:
somehow mr bluefish the ideals of this man may not be that popular in britain 2012 style lol
What joy .... all of the millions of links pertaining to Marx and you choose character assassination before engaging the ideas and beliefs .... what a shock
I bet you a figgin that 93.7% of these households are in the south east and the headline figure is caused by housing benefit.
50,000 is a tiny amount anyway.
If ya want ghettos and exclusive gated communities carry on. If you dont open yer eyes and smell the coffee.
Quote by Ben_Minx
I bet you a figgin that 93.7% of these households are in the south east and the headline figure is caused by housing benefit.

50,000 is a tiny amount anyway.
If ya want ghettos and exclusive gated communities carry on. If you dont open yer eyes and smell the coffee.

in that case maybe we should get them shipped to wales and scotland just before we hand over independence
bolt
Hi All,
I haven't read page two of the thread but I think blue raises an interesting point.
Three years ago I got made redundant, I was renting alone - I lived on savings for 2 months but for 4 months I had to seek government support - first and only time in my life.
The allowances for accommodation are very strangely regulated - I was given more money than my rent cost (still don't know why) - I enquired and was told that it was correct.
When I returned to work I was burdened with a £800 'debt' for this overpayment.... ????
I appealed and was told it did not have to be repaid. I don't think I deserved more than the rent, but trust me JSA is so shit that I was grateful for the extra money.
My point is that the system is wonky, the 'Job Centre' is crap and of no help, having to 'prove' that you are looking for work is BEYOND a joke - fortnightly interviews with only THREE job searches per WEEK - and no proof was ever requested.
Private landlords are aware of the current situation and so they seek DSS tenants intentionally in order to be able to charge exorbitant rates.
I agree with the cap entirely, but the goverment cannot simply shove it into place without safeguarding rent levels.
JSA should never pay more than the average working level - it goes nowhere near it at the moment - my total allowance for those four months was (annual rate) £13,500 and it was manageable.
I agree with the cap, the system is flawed and if your rent is too high you should move, regardless of where it is within your borough.
Vulnerable families do need to be protected and rents controlled and reasonable.
A
its quite ironic that the like who hate the rich think that private rents should be paid regardless of how much, so that these rich landlords can continue to exploit the system using those less fortunate
funny debate this :thumbup:
So your solution Rob is that we protect tenants from exploitative landlords by forcing them to move to lower quality accomodation owned by even worse landlords? Seems to be a flaw in your logic there fella, dontcha think?
I take it everyone is aware that the vast majority of those living in London in receipt of Housing Benefit actually work for a living? What do those tenants do if they're forced to move to an area beyond travelling distance from their place of employment? Give up their jobs and sign on? That'll save money won't it. Oh no, wait . . .
Quote by neilinleeds
So your solution Rob is that we protect tenants from exploitative landlords by forcing them to move to lower quality accomodation owned by even worse landlords? Seems to be a flaw in your logic there fella, dontcha think?
I take it everyone is aware that the vast majority of those living in London in receipt of Housing Benefit actually work for a living? What do those tenants do if they're forced to move to an area beyond travelling distance from their place of employment? Give up their jobs and sign on? That'll save money won't it. Oh no, wait . . .

Is it not also possible Neil, that these tenants may not even need to move, once these greedy landlords realise they maybe left with empty properties, then charging sensible prices for rent, maybe the only solution to getting the mortgage on the property they own paid. Sensible rent paid, mortgage paid, no greedy profit made.
Entirely possible Dave, yes. I'll show my arse on the Town Hall stairs if that actually happens though. Look at what's happened to rents since the start of the recession. They haven't come down in response to the reduced spending power of prospective tenants, they've remained stable because demand out-strips supply. It is the lack of affordable housing in high-value areas like London that has forced tenants into high cost rented accomadation in the first place. Without a sustained investment in social housing that will remain the case, because there's your real issue.
The govt are addressing the problem of high rent with a big stick approach that blames tenants, when the real long term, sensible, pro-social solution is new social housing provision. It is a solution so blindingly obvious a small child with a lazy eye and a squint could see it. Why are they not doing that?
Quote by Ben_Minx
I bet you a figgin that 93.7% of these households are in the south east and the headline figure is caused by housing benefit.
50,000 is a tiny amount anyway.
If ya want ghettos and exclusive gated communities carry on. If you dont open yer eyes and smell the coffee.

Do you not like people in the South East?
I am at a loss to see how, restricting people to an income far higher than I get will force them into ghettos. I don't live in one.
Quote by Bluefish2009
I bet you a figgin that 93.7% of these households are in the south east and the headline figure is caused by housing benefit.
50,000 is a tiny amount anyway.
If ya want ghettos and exclusive gated communities carry on. If you dont open yer eyes and smell the coffee.

Do you not like people in the South East?
I am at a loss to see how, restricting people to an income far higher than I get will force them into ghettos. I don't live in one.
why do you think peeple in wales want independence bluefish? lol
i think from when i went to wales a few yeers back they had enough of there own dodgy places, some might even say ghettos. take cardiff for example wink and that is one of the better areas :grin:
Quote by starlightcouple
why do you think peeple in wales want independence bluefish? lol
i think from when i went to wales a few yeers back they had enough of there own dodgy places, some might even say ghettos. take cardiff for example wink and that is one of the better areas :grin:

Plaistow was in 2007 the 6th most deprived borough in the UK
The Indices of deprivation 2007 created by the British Department for Communities and Local Government (DCLG)
Pot and kettle, Star ?
Quote by Bluefish2009
I am at a loss to see how, restricting people to an income far higher than I get will force them into ghettos. I don't live in one.

No shit? You have a lot of ghettos in Dorset that are in some way comparable to the inner cities of London do you Blue?
What's your average rent where you live for a three bed house? Nothing flash, basic ex-council house, something like that? I know what I could rent for in Devon around the periphery of Plymouth cos I look in estate agents windows down there 3 or 4 times a year, amazed that it's around the same or only very slightly higher than I pay for the privelege of living in one of the roughest areas of inner city Leeds. Now guess what £550-600pcm would get me in inner London?
Quote by neilinleeds
I am at a loss to see how, restricting people to an income far higher than I get will force them into ghettos. I don't live in one.

No shit? You have a lot of ghettos in Dorset that are in some way comparable to the inner cities of London do you Blue?
What's you're average rent where you live for a three bed house? Nothing flash, basic ex-council house, something like that? I know what I could rent for in Devon around the periphery of Plymouth cos I look in estate agents windows down there 3 or 4 times a year, amazed that it's around the same or only very slightly higher than I pay for the privelege of living in one of the roughest areas of inner city Leeds. Now guess what £550-600pcm would get me in inner London?
I do not live where I want to live, I live where I can afford to live
The reason for lower rent in such places as Devon reflects the fact there are not as many job opportunities and a smaller wage
this thread just gets funnier sorry
did it not occur to anyone that some exploit certain councils because they know that some barmy ones particularly in London are more than frivolous with tax payers money when it comes to the likes of housing benefits
many young first time buyers move away from their roots every month so why is it only a problem or a big deal when your on benefits dunno
i see lots of social housing being created in Kent so if its not happening else where then maybe your councils have other agendas
Quote by starlightcouple
I bet you a figgin that 93.7% of these households are in the south east and the headline figure is caused by housing benefit.
50,000 is a tiny amount anyway.
If ya want ghettos and exclusive gated communities carry on. If you dont open yer eyes and smell the coffee.

Do you not like people in the South East?
I am at a loss to see how, restricting people to an income far higher than I get will force them into ghettos. I don't live in one.
why do you think peeple in wales want independence bluefish? lol
i think from when i went to wales a few yeers back they had enough of there own dodgy places, some might even say ghettos. take cardiff for example wink and that is one of the better areas :grin:
Oh dear.
Blue I think Neil adequately commented on the facts so i will add nothing further other than to point out that the South East, just like other parts of the country has unique social dynamics, relevant to this debate.
Star you ability to litter every thread with veiled insult and mockery is legendary. However you may be interested to learn that I am not welsh and Cardiff is good 5 hour car drive away.
Quote by Ben_Minx
Oh dear.
Blue I think Neil adequately commented on the facts so i will add nothing further other than to point out that the South East, just like other parts of the country has unique social dynamics, relevant to this debate.
Star you ability to litter every thread with veiled insult and mockery is legendary. However you may be interested to learn that I am not welsh and Cardiff is good 5 hour car drive away.

you will also be aware that the south east is producing more social housing than any other area in the uk ben
even in medway wink
Quote by neilinleeds
I am at a loss to see how, restricting people to an income far higher than I get will force them into ghettos. I don't live in one.

No shit? You have a lot of ghettos in Dorset that are in some way comparable to the inner cities of London do you Blue?
What's you're average rent where you live for a three bed house? Nothing flash, basic ex-council house, something like that? I know what I could rent for in Devon around the periphery of Plymouth cos I look in estate agents windows down there 3 or 4 times a year, amazed that it's around the same or only very slightly higher than I pay for the privelege of living in one of the roughest areas of inner city Leeds. Now guess what £550-600pcm would get me in inner London?
Yes, but Neil there isn't anything to attract you to Plymouth is there...?
Quote by Rogue_trader
I am at a loss to see how, restricting people to an income far higher than I get will force them into ghettos. I don't live in one.

No shit? You have a lot of ghettos in Dorset that are in some way comparable to the inner cities of London do you Blue?
What's you're average rent where you live for a three bed house? Nothing flash, basic ex-council house, something like that? I know what I could rent for in Devon around the periphery of Plymouth cos I look in estate agents windows down there 3 or 4 times a year, amazed that it's around the same or only very slightly higher than I pay for the privelege of living in one of the roughest areas of inner city Leeds. Now guess what £550-600pcm would get me in inner London?
Yes, but Neil there isn't anything to attract you to Plymouth is there...?
:thumbup:
Quite right
Like I said above
It is a beautiful part of the world, and a part which I love, but little in the way of work and the wages much lower
Quote by Ben_Minx
South East, just like other parts of the country has unique social dynamics, relevant to this debate.
.

Could you qualify that for me?
Quote by HnS
Plaistow was in 2007 the 6th most deprived borough in the UK
The Indices of deprivation 2007 created by the British Department for Communities and Local Government (DCLG)

and??? i actually now live just outside of plaistow and to be honest i think it is a great area to live. yes it has a very high percentage of immigrants, probably why they have been put here as it is a bit deprived in some areas i agree. but you know what hns? the peeple are honest in the main and if your figures are correct i still say this area is better than any area in wales that i have been to.
Quote by HnS
Pot and kettle, Star ?

not at all. and your point again is as it has gone way over my head?
Quote by Ben_Minx
Star you ability to litter every thread with veiled insult and mockery is legendary. However you may be interested to learn that I am not welsh and Cardiff is good 5 hour car drive away.

not at all ben. as usual your over exageration of things is legendry i am afraid.
you always seem to both present and past have an ability to sulk and make inaccurate points, when your own points are showed up to be without any foundation at all.
remember to always read back what you write. it may help your case in the future :thumbup:
it seems that you make points and then moan when peeple challenge those points. that is not debate ben that is wanting to think your ways are the right ways ben.
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