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Could Science be proved right in the end?

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I believe we all have a fasination about how we came to be and where will we go, what created us the creator V The Big band theory, and Darwins theory of evolution.
I watched a programme recently about Stephen Hawking and the big bang, and in my mind it all made sense to me. But I realise people have their own beliefs and respect them for it, but after talking to practicing friend I do get an impression that a lot of people are questioning the creator but believe and practise about religon for other reason, more the community aspect as a meeting place seems to be the reasons rather that totally believing other aspects.
I just wondered with todays technology and the rapid speed that science is working, would one day (maybe not in our lifetime)thoughts change?
Could science have the answers?
I believe science to be correct, but this does not effect my view of any one who has a faith, in fact I envy them and wish I could believe.
Quote by flower411
i do not see it as a contradiction, i have posted elsewhere on why i believe in evolution and the big bang.
Since it merely recieved snide remarks i wont repeat the arguements,but will say that religions are called faith for a reason.
Or as Douglas Adams put it
.Now it is such a bizarrely improbably coincidence that anything so mindbogglingly useful could have evolved by chance that some thinkers have chosen to see it as a final and clinching proof of the non-existence of God.
The argument goes something like this: "I refuse to prove that I exist," says God, "for proof denies faith, and without faith I am nothing."
"But," says Man, "the Babel fish is a dead giveaway isn't it? It could not have evolved by chance. It proves you exist, and so therefore, by your own arguments, you don't. QED"
"Oh dear," says God, "I hadn't thought of that," and promptly vanishes in a puff of logic.
-- Douglas Adams, The Hitch Hiker's Guide to the Galaxy (book one of the Hitch Hiker's Guide to the Galaxy series), p 50

You should read "Towing Jehovah" by James Morrow.....it`s very funny and works on the same premise that by dying and falling into the sea, God has proved he exists !!
I can`t see the problem to be honest....if you have faith and believe then all the "evidence" in the universe could simply prove just how clever God is at covering his tracks ...
To see science as proof that there is no God is just plain silly...anybody who was capable of building the universe would be capable of planting the evidence that it all happened by chance.
I do not believe in god, I have made an informed decision, based on the evidence before me, I do not feel that is any more silly than the opposite view
Quote by flower411
i do not see it as a contradiction, i have posted elsewhere on why i believe in evolution and the big bang.
Since it merely recieved snide remarks i wont repeat the arguements,but will say that religions are called faith for a reason.
Or as Douglas Adams put it
.Now it is such a bizarrely improbably coincidence that anything so mindbogglingly useful could have evolved by chance that some thinkers have chosen to see it as a final and clinching proof of the non-existence of God.
The argument goes something like this: "I refuse to prove that I exist," says God, "for proof denies faith, and without faith I am nothing."
"But," says Man, "the Babel fish is a dead giveaway isn't it? It could not have evolved by chance. It proves you exist, and so therefore, by your own arguments, you don't. QED"
"Oh dear," says God, "I hadn't thought of that," and promptly vanishes in a puff of logic.
-- Douglas Adams, The Hitch Hiker's Guide to the Galaxy (book one of the Hitch Hiker's Guide to the Galaxy series), p 50

You should read "Towing Jehovah" by James Morrow.....it`s very funny and works on the same premise that by dying and falling into the sea, God has proved he exists !!
I can`t see the problem to be honest....if you have faith and believe then all the "evidence" in the universe could simply prove just how clever God is at covering his tracks ...
To see science as proof that there is no God is just plain silly...anybody who was capable of building the universe would be capable of planting the evidence that it all happened by chance.
I do not believe in god, I have made an informed decision, based on the evidence before me, I do not feel that is any more silly than the opposite view
OK .. my stance ....
We are here ...we are never gonna know for certain just exactly how we got here so let`s just take a look at what`s around us and work out what we can do with it !!
God or not .... there`s loads of fuckin brilliant stuff we can do , who cares how it all got here ?
:thumbup:
Science can (and presumably eventually will) prove anything that is provable. What is provable at any time is dependent on our ability to measure, test, replicate etc etc. All the usual rigorous investigation that we are able to apply. You can argue that we can't prove anything absolutely and some things are forever in the realms of Heisenburg's Uncertainty principle and other wierd stuff at the edge of our (current) abilities. But, quite frankly, is the full scheme of things, do the more esoteric theroetical physics things truly matter? I doubt it. Breakthroughs the investigations produce ARE significant, including the development of high spead communications.
Faith proves nothing, beyond the ability of humans to beleive in things that are currently unproved. That isn't a bad thing in itself, even scientists have to have faith that what they are trying will work, is valuable etc etc. But it cannot be a replacement for fact, knowledge or even experience.
On the God question. I don't see any reason to belirve in God. Why? Because really shit, vile, horrible things happen to totally innocent people. Babies are born with their guts on the outside, Altzheimers destroys a person 20 years before they die, natural disasters result in families being destroyed etc etc etc.
So either there is no God - or if there is one, it is either incompetent (in which case isn't a god) or is a vile bastard that enjoys watching babies die slow agonising deaths (in which case does not deserve acknowledgement let alone worship).
When I stand before God I shall know he/she/it exists. For the moment i believe in no god, but respect the teachings of many religions. Some I reject, some I embrace.
...but the question I always ask is who created god.
If I believe anything it is that the universe has ripped itself apart. Created each of us in an effort to understand it's self. That I only believe a few times a year. Mostly god has no place in my life.
It is out of our reach to understand what is behond the thing we call death, and god has decided not to be involved in thing this side of death anylonger. So science has a long way to go to prove anything.
Quote by Theladyisaminx
I believe we all have a fasination about how we came to be and where will we go, what created us the creator V The Big band theory, and Darwins theory of evolution.
I watched a programme recently about Stephen Hawking and the big bang, and in my mind it all made sense to me. But I realise people have their own beliefs and respect them for it, but after talking to practicing friend I do get an impression that a lot of people are questioning the creator but believe and practise about religon for other reason, more the community aspect as a meeting place seems to be the reasons rather that totally believing other aspects.
I just wondered with todays technology and the rapid speed that science is working, would one day (maybe not in our lifetime)thoughts change?
Could science have the answers?

Forgive me for introducing a small epistemological digression, but science can't be proved right. Science is a method for establishing what is right. Science cannot have the answers, because it is in itself a method for establishing what the answers are. That's why it's a method, not a belief system, and why it can't be compared to the belief in god, because science is always open to testing via experiment or hypothesis, whereas belief systems refute the very notion that they can be tested.
Quote by foxylady2209
Science can (and presumably eventually will) prove anything that is provable. What is provable at any time is dependent on our ability to measure, test, replicate etc etc. All the usual rigorous investigation that we are able to apply. You can argue that we can't prove anything absolutely and some things are forever in the realms of Heisenburg's Uncertainty principle and other wierd stuff at the edge of our (current) abilities. But, quite frankly, is the full scheme of things, do the more esoteric theroetical physics things truly matter? I doubt it. Breakthroughs the investigations produce ARE significant, including the development of high spead communications.
Faith proves nothing, beyond the ability of humans to beleive in things that are currently unproved. That isn't a bad thing in itself, even scientists have to have faith that what they are trying will work, is valuable etc etc. But it cannot be a replacement for fact, knowledge or even experience.
On the God question. I don't see any reason to belirve in God. Why? Because really shit, vile, horrible things happen to totally innocent people. Babies are born with their guts on the outside, Altzheimers destroys a person 20 years before they die, natural disasters result in families being destroyed etc etc etc.
So either there is no God - or if there is one, it is either incompetent (in which case isn't a god) or is a vile bastard that enjoys watching babies die slow agonising deaths (in which case does not deserve acknowledgement let alone worship).

I'm generally in agreement with you, but you'll find many Christians who'll refute your third paragraph with reference to the arguments C S Lewis laid out in 'The Problem of Pain'. He said
"if the universe is so bad, or even half so bad, how on earth did human beings ever come to attribute it to the activity of a wise and good Creator? The spectacle of the universe as revealed by experience can never have been ground for religion: it must always have been something in spite of which religion, acquired from a different source, was held"

And it is a strong argument, because you either end up arguing that the creators of religion were irrational, but we are not, with no discernible reason why that should be true, or arguing that the constant re-emergence of monotheistic religion is some kind of evolutionary contingency.
That second argument works if you identify a reason why monotheism should be so pervasive, and the one that works best for me is the rise of private property. As people move from communal property to individual property they search for an intellectual argument to justify that theft of the communal, and a monotheistic god serves that purpose perfectly. So, to answer Lewis, the cause of the emergence of God is not divine inspiration, or a search for meaning, but an ideological need.
Quote by Theladyisaminx
Could science have the answers?

Eventually I believe science will prove the big bang theory is true.
The problem there will lie with all religious factions.
For that will prove there is no God of any description, blowing wide open the religious arguments.
I do not think it will happen yet but some time in the future I am sure with mans rapid increase in the Earths knowledge, it will be found.
Quote by kentswingers777
Could science have the answers?

Eventually I believe science will prove the big bang theory is true.
The problem there will lie with all religious factions.
For that will prove there is no God of any description, blowing wide open the religious arguments.
I do not think it will happen yet but some time in the future I am sure with mans rapid increase in the Earths knowledge, it will be found.
Intelligent design has been fabricated as a theory to answer the big bang theory - apparently the intelligent designer specializes in explosions. You cannot refute arguments like ID - only demonstrate that they are articles of faith not science.
Maybe not. Or we probably won't be able to comprehend quite what science has created for us in the end.
We already create devices with so many functions they baffle us. most modern cars can't be serviced at the roadside, we rely on technology we don't understand or know how to fix easily.
technology is making us lazy and weak, we would be useless in a real emergency, many of us would perish quickly.
so at some point there will be diminishing returns from science and it won't change what's already there or what is destined to happen, it can only observe and utilise what exists.
Quote by duncanlondon
Maybe not. Or we probably won't be able to comprehend quite what science has created for us in the end.
We already create devices with so many functions they baffle us. most modern cars can't be serviced at the roadside, we rely on technology we don't understand or know how to fix easily.
technology is making us lazy and weak, we would be useless in a real emergency, many of us would perish quickly.
so at some point there will be diminishing returns from science and it won't change what's already there or what is destined to happen, it can only observe and utilise what exists.

we do rely on technology that we dont understand,but other people do down to science.
i dont like the word destined,but science can certainly predict events,many of which would have been called acts of god in a less enlightened age
Quote by Kaznkev
You can see this in the way people use and misuse stats all the time,or bandy around words like proof.i cannot prove God exists,but do not feel the need is vital.

I have faith in humans, I believe in buildings in communities which support local people and stretch futher with some kind of connection, what I dont believe in is religion as it selective and by its nature in non inclusive and devisive.
Quote by Kaznkev

You can see this in the way people use and misuse stats all the time,or bandy around words like proof.i cannot prove God exists,but do not feel the need is vital.

I have faith in humans, I believe in buildings in communities which support local people and stretch futher with some kind of connection, what I dont believe in is religion as it selective and by its nature in non inclusive and devisive.
i cannot see a greater belief in humans than believing they are made in Gods image and that they are his greatest creation.
However i dontwish to evanglicalise,i just wish respect was shown on this forum for people of faith.
Have I shown disrespect Kaz, as it attached to my response so can be read in that context.
kaz wrote
cannot see a greater belief in humans than believing they are made in Gods image and that they are his greatest creation.
just imagining god in our image taking a celestial dump,how does that work then?is that how new galaxies are made lol?