Do speed cameras really cut accidents ?

29 Jul 2010

Quote by Kaznkev
Speed cameras help to make speeding unacceptable. Speeding being unacceptable leads to fewer accidents and less damage from accidents. Seems logically speed cameras reduce the number and severity of accidents in general. They appear to do so at a profit. Looks like a win win to me.

I dont agree Ben
Proper education and targeted advert campaigns would be far more effective to make speeding unacceptable. Just like drink driving campaigns have done over the years. Not horrid hard hitting but like this one below for seat belts is far more powerful

i think we need to go much further blue,there is a culture in this country of the supremecy of the attitude dates back to the days of Beeching and is rarely challenged by you go to Amsterdamn you will see bikes cars,trams and pedestrians accorded equal status on the is a completely different attitude.
i saw this when i was in was a totally bike aware culture where by convention there was a heirarchy of bicycles,mopeds,bikes,cars.
There needs to be a fresh way to plan and design our streets,with the needs of all users equally weighed.
There have been some interesting experiments where all "saftey"devices are untill this rethink,then we need cameras as people seem to think that speeding is a victimless crime.
Valid points Kaz, but very difficult now we have so many roads all built in the way they have been

29 Jul 2010

Quote by awayman
Any cameras taken down will be the direct decision of the local councils.
So will see if they put money before safety.
There should be speed cutting measures outside every school and every park.

As usual, this is some way from the truth.
See here for information about speed camera partnerships -
Councils are only one partner in such arrangements. The income from cameras can only be used for the work of the speed camera partnership - and councils only pay if the partnership's expenditure exceeds its income. SO, in short, you don't appear to know what you're on about.
I am not going to bite on that comment as that is what you
IF councils are so concerned about road safety, why is it now all of a sudden about money??
Surely money should be second to safety?
Your comment " and councils only pay if the partnership's expenditure exceeds its income " says it is purely about the money....so they are and always have been there to get money out of the motorist, and sod the people who get killed or injured now.
It was always about the money, no change from councils there then.
Funny how peoples opinions differ....the poll makes for interesting viewing.

29 Jul 2010

I know of many accident black spots where there has never been a speed camera, I know of some safe streches of road they have been put!
If they told the truth instead of telling lies they would receive better public support in my view

29 Jul 2010

Quote by Bluefish2009
I know of many accident black spots where there has never been a speed camera, I know of some safe streches of road they have been put!
If they told the truth instead of telling lies they would receive better public support in my view

They don't site camreas at accident blackspots. they site them before the spot to slow traffic before they get there.

29 Jul 2010

Quote by Jewlnmart
I know of many accident black spots where there has never been a speed camera, I know of some safe streches of road they have been put!
If they told the truth instead of telling lies they would receive better public support in my view

They don't site camreas at accident blackspots. they site them before the spot to slow traffic before they get there.
I've seen 'em placed well after....

29 Jul 2010

A bit like when cameras were first introduced they were sneakily hidden to catch the motorist.
Then they had to make them be in full view, as the objective was for the motorist to see them and slow down.
IF councils had their way they would all be hidden to generate the maximum amount of money from fines.
But now with councils pulling out of issuing new ones and maintaining the current ones, they suddenly see no benefit in them as they have other things and more important things to spend their money on.
What can be more important than saving lives and serious injuries? It certainly is not for more meals on wheels.
This is a great idea to help the motorist...

29 Jul 2010

Quote by Jewlnmart
I know of many accident black spots where there has never been a speed camera, I know of some safe streches of road they have been put!
If they told the truth instead of telling lies they would receive better public support in my view

They don't site camreas at accident blackspots. they site them before the spot to slow traffic before they get there.
All the ones I know for are not sited at or before high accident spots! Yet I do know of some very bad roads/spots where I would happily see them

29 Jul 2010

Quote by kentswingers777
IF councils are so concerned about road safety, why is it now all of a sudden about money??
Surely money should be second to safety?

How much Kent do you think forcing motorists who, by your own admission, generally refuse to observe speed limits actually costs? How much do you think speed bumps cost? How much do you think cameras cost? How much do you think it costs to keep a copper who could be dealing with all these 'proper' law-breakers some people bang on about parked up in a layby all day in his Volvo T5 or his Suburu Impreza or whatever they run about in these days actually costs?
Once you've worked that out, perhaps you'll tell us how it's all to be paid for? Oddly enough. I suspect you'll be among the first to complain when you get a Council Tax bill that actually covers it?

Funny how peoples opinions differ....

Not really. Opinions tend to be based on what people choose to believe, whether that's based in fact, or what they read in the papers.

Quote by Bluefish
Proper education and targeted advert campaigns would be far more effective to make speeding unacceptable.

Seat belts, maybe, where people are concerned about their own safety? Speeding / drink driving? I'm not so sure. For some drivers, only proper, punitive, costly sanctions will change their behaviour, and for those who refuse to change their behaviour regardless, there must be measures in place that ensure that they will at some point loose their licence.
N x x x ;)

29 Jul 2010

Quote by neilinleeds
How much Kent do you think forcing motorists who, by your own admission, generally refuse to observe speed limits actually costs? How much do you think speed bumps cost? How much do you think cameras cost? How much do you think it costs to keep a copper who could be dealing with all these 'proper' law-breakers some people bang on about parked up in a layby all day in his Volvo T5 or his Suburu Impreza or whatever they run about in these days actually costs?

Cost? It has only now become a problem because central Government have TOLD councils to cut spending. The costs of putting up speed cameras was never an issue until this new Government came into power, as councils have been overspending for years.
Now one of the things they want to cut back on is the cost of one of the things that do save lives. I am sure they could cut back on other things rather than this? Or is it purely and simply because of the lack of money they now make from them?
I am not one of those who as you put it " bang on about parked up in a layby all day in his Volvo T5 or his Suburu Impreza or whatever they run about in these days actually costs ".
I would rather they be seen actively policing, rather than as we have been informed sitting in a police station all day.

Quote by neilinleeds
Once you've worked that out, perhaps you'll tell us how it's all to be paid for? Oddly enough. I suspect you'll be among the first to complain when you get a Council Tax bill that actually covers it?

I do not mind my money going to constructive things within the community, what I do object too is the money being wasted on mad practices purely to boost the councils own PR exercises.
The way you and others are going on is that I want all speed cameras taken off the roads, to allow anyone to speed, that is rubbish. I want constructive policing, just as I want constructive speed camera sites, and not placed purely to gain huge ammounts of cash.
If we are honest we all, or most of us recognise the need for strategically placed speed cameras.....that is not on three lane dual carriageways, but in more constructive sites like the places that have been mentioned in this thread.

29 Jul 2010

Quote by kentswingers777
How much Kent do you think forcing motorists who, by your own admission, generally refuse to observe speed limits actually costs? How much do you think speed bumps cost? How much do you think cameras cost? How much do you think it costs to keep a copper who could be dealing with all these 'proper' law-breakers some people bang on about parked up in a layby all day in his Volvo T5 or his Suburu Impreza or whatever they run about in these days actually costs?

Cost? It has only now become a problem because central Government have TOLD councils to cut spending. The costs of putting up speed cameras was never an issue until this new Government came into power, as councils have been overspending for years.
Now one of the things they want to cut back on is the cost of one of the things that do save lives. I am sure they could cut back on other things rather than this? Or is it purely and simply because of the lack of money they now make from them?
I am not one of those who as you put it " bang on about parked up in a layby all day in his Volvo T5 or his Suburu Impreza or whatever they run about in these days actually costs ".
I would rather they be seen actively policing, rather than as we have been informed sitting in a police station all day.

Quote by neilinleeds
Once you've worked that out, perhaps you'll tell us how it's all to be paid for? Oddly enough. I suspect you'll be among the first to complain when you get a Council Tax bill that actually covers it?

I do not mind my money going to constructive things within the community, what I do object too is the money being wasted on mad practices purely to boost the councils own PR exercises.
The way you and others are going on is that I want all speed cameras taken off the roads, to allow anyone to speed, that is rubbish. I want constructive policing, just as I want constructive speed camera sites, and not placed purely to gain huge ammounts of cash.
If we are honest we all, or most of us recognise the need for strategically placed speed cameras.....that is not on three lane dual carriageways, but in more constructive sites like the places that have been mentioned in this thread.
kenty, you are unhappy that council's overspent ? council's do not overspend and have not. councils are required by law to remain within budget. their budget is set by central government based upon their regions capital reciepts and rate support grant from central government and AUDITED BY CENTRAL GOVERNMENT ! they are required by law to provide certain essential services which, by the fall off in capital reciepts caused by the present deflationary enviroment and cut in central government support, they will not be able to do, regardless of however much waste or misplaced as you would put it, programes they cut !
as a generalisation, capital reciepts nationwide are of the order of 40 to 50% down during this fiscal year. along with cuts from central government support, councils will be making 20 to 30% cuts in manpower across the board next year and probably nearer 90% of capital projects will be shelved.
as major employers in every part of the country including kenty street, i hope you have factored in this loss of money in circulation into your business plan.

29 Jul 2010

Quote by gulsonroad30664
i hope you have factored in this loss of money in circulation into your business plan.

Business plan? I thought you did not need one if ya was making loads of money?
Business ain't too bad here Guls. lol

29 Jul 2010

Quote by kentswingers777
i hope you have factored in this loss of money in circulation into your business plan.

Business plan? I thought you did not need one if ya was making loads of money?
Business ain't too bad here Guls. lol

i dont need one other than chasing the highest bond/treasury rates but hey, i will probably make the wrong call at the wrong time.
i'm glad your business is liquid and i hope it stays that way for as long as possible. good luck

29 Jul 2010

Cheers Guls, I believe you really mean that matey.
It is tough out there for sure, but when I get some crap I just come onto me beloved SH and everything is all right with the world. lol

30 Jul 2010

Quote by Bluefish2009

They don't site camreas at accident blackspots. they site them before the spot to slow traffic before they get there.

All the ones I know for are not sited at or before high accident spots!
They worked well then. wink

30 Jul 2010

Hmmmmm seems an active thread, Current Affairs indeed.
Perhaps time to update with
The gist of which is
A Swindon woman whose son was killed when he was hit by a car is campaigning for speed cameras in the town to be switched back on. The borough council was the first English local authority to abandon fixed speed cameras one year ago.
Mrs Hannah said:"If there were speed cameras on Drove Road my son might still be alive. Instead he was killed by a selfish driver who knew he wouldn't get caught for speeding."
A council spokesman said: "We are carrying out major work at the moment to change the road where Mrs Hannah's son was killed, which involves altering the layout of the road to physically slow drivers down, and installing new safety barriers and crossings.
"One of the reasons the council decided to deactivate its fixed speed cameras was to free up the money for schemes such as this, which we believe will have a greater overall effect on road safety.
"When the cameras were switched off, many said that the number of accidents at the fixed camera sites would increase, but this has not happened so far.
"Overall, the number of accidents and casualties across Swindon has fallen."
By the way the driver was jailed for three years for causing death by dangerous driving - a separate thread about punishment fitting the crime perhaps ?

30 Jul 2010

I concur with some views already put up that the problem is with wrong application of speed cameras rather than the things themselves.
By the way, I get quite cross with these flashing signs telling you how fast you are going as they are sometimes less accurate than actual cameras. There's one near me that often flashes 31ish when I'm only doing 28 because I know it's there - imagine the situation if you had an accident and a witness came forward and said you were doing 31!
Plim :twisted:

30 Jul 2010

Quote by Plimboy
I concur with some views already put up that the problem is with wrong application of speed cameras rather than the things themselves.
By the way, I get quite cross with these flashing signs telling you how fast you are going as they are sometimes less accurate than actual cameras. There's one near me that often flashes 31ish when I'm only doing 28 because I know it's there - imagine the situation if you had an accident and a witness came forward and said you were doing 31!
Plim :twisted:

There's one near us that goes off 100 yards before entering a 30mph limit. Its not illegal to be doing up to 60mph at the time (although you would be slowing to enter the 30) yet it flashes away regardless. Its both distracting and wrong! It shouldn't go off unless you're within the 30 if you're still over.
I think the best kind are the ones that flash up the speed of each vehicle as it passes for the driver (and everyone else) to see. But they're expensive. And the implications of them being incorrectly calibrated, especially in the case of witness testimony, are extremely worrying indeed!

30 Jul 2010

I saw one the other day that flashes up yer speed and tells u to slow down and if u do it said thank you. I was doing 31 in a 30 slowed to 29 and got a TY quite made my day.

30 Jul 2010

Wow..............that will save a few bob then.:giggle:

30 Jul 2010

Yeah kaz my guru of a father in law estimated it would take about 30 years to recoup teh capital outlay from saved electricity costs---the tourists like em tho.

31 Jul 2010

Quote by Ben_welshminx
Yeah kaz my guru of a father in law estimated it would take about 30 years to recoup teh capital outlay from saved electricity costs---the tourists like em tho.

I think they work on the same basis as the met stations you see on the A1 and other roads. The saving comes from the capital cost of installing them - they're cheaper because they can be installed without a main power connection - which makes a big difference in rural areas that don't have street lighting.

31 Jul 2010

Quote by Kaznkev
Yeah kaz my guru of a father in law estimated it would take about 30 years to recoup teh capital outlay from saved electricity costs---the tourists like em tho.

I think they work on the same basis as the met stations you see on the A1 and other roads. The saving comes from the capital cost of installing them - they're cheaper because they can be installed without a main power connection - which makes a big difference in rural areas that don't have street lighting.
i actually wasnt bothered about the cost, i m just a fan of renewable resources.
But is anyone wants to start a rant about how overlit this country is i will contribute,light pollution being a bug bear of mine.
A passion for unlit laybys kaz?

31 Jul 2010

lovely clear nights here....

31 Jul 2010

Quote by Kaznkev
Yeah kaz my guru of a father in law estimated it would take about 30 years to recoup teh capital outlay from saved electricity costs---the tourists like em tho.

I think they work on the same basis as the met stations you see on the A1 and other roads. The saving comes from the capital cost of installing them - they're cheaper because they can be installed without a main power connection - which makes a big difference in rural areas that don't have street lighting.
i actually wasnt bothered about the cost, i m just a fan of renewable resources.
But is anyone wants to start a rant about how overlit this country is i will contribute, light pollution being a bug bear of mine.
:thumbup:
And of mine

10 Aug 2010

Well now it seems it is all the fault of the middle classes.

I would have thought that speeding showed no class barrier but what do I know?
Very easy for some jumped up police chief to critisise middle class speeders, but I thought the class war was dead and buried?
I would have thought going by insurance stats that the worst group for speeding and the accidents associated with speed were the young?
I am not privy to any figures that may exist on this one ( where is Rob ) lol

Is it really a class thing or is this woman speaking out of her arse?

10 Aug 2010

Quote by kentswingers777
Well now it seems it is all the fault of the middle classes.

I would have thought that speeding showed no class barrier but what do I know?
Very easy for some jumped up police chief to critisise middle class speeders, but I thought the class war was dead and buried?
I would have thought going by insurance stats that the worst group for speeding and the accidents associated with speed were the young?
I am not privy to any figures that may exist on this one ( where is Rob )
Is it really a class thing or is this woman speaking out of her arse?

The latter I would say. From memory, she has had a somewhat chequered career and I guess the ordinary "bobby on the beat" in Cambs is pleased she is going.
Perhaps she might be reminded about some of her Chief Constable colleagues who in the past have been caught with their "peddle too close to the metal".
She should also remember who is paying her gold plated pension!

10 Aug 2010

Quote by kentswingers777
Well now it seems it is all the fault of the middle classes.

I would have thought that speeding showed no class barrier but what do I know?
Very easy for some jumped up police chief to critisise middle class speeders, but I thought the class war was dead and buried?
I would have thought going by insurance stats that the worst group for speeding and the accidents associated with speed were the young?
I am not privy to any figures that may exist on this one ( where is Rob )
Is it really a class thing or is this woman speaking out of her arse?

No where near dead or buried. You only have to look at what many on this site say if you mention, posh people, well off people, etc

10 Aug 2010

'Class War' on speeders and Staggers hasn't responded yet either ?
(only joking Staggers wink

)
That might be one view in the Daily Mail, howewever the traffic taliban of North Wales still seem keen on being indiscriminate, i.e. get any and every one.
It's rumoured that the summer holiday period is also their busiest, well there seems to be more of them hiding and in plain sight on the A55 main route through North Wales at the moment.
Aside from any 'class' differentiation, it would also appear to depend on who you are, or more particularly who your employer is. From memory the PC caught doing in excess of 150mph a couple of three years ago kept his job and license :twisted:
(General public opinion at the time being one rule for them and another for us)

10 Aug 2010

Quote by kentswingers777
Well now it seems it is all the fault of the middle classes.

I would have thought that speeding showed no class barrier but what do I know?
Very easy for some jumped up police chief to critisise middle class speeders, but I thought the class war was dead and buried?
I would have thought going by insurance stats that the worst group for speeding and the accidents associated with speed were the young?
I am not privy to any figures that may exist on this one ( where is Rob )
Is it really a class thing or is this woman speaking out of her arse?

this was a site we pointed liza's son to when he started driving
some statistics here

10 Aug 2010

Jeeze Rob you got a full time secretary working for ya ? lol

Do speed cameras cut accidents ?