Do speed cameras really cut accidents ?

10 Aug 2010

The number of drivers speeding past Oxfordshire's deactivated speed cameras has increased by up to 88%, a road safety partnership claim.
Thames Valley's Safer Road Partnership monitored drivers on two roads in the county for five days.
The cameras were axed at the end of July after the county council withdrew £600,000 in funding due to budget cuts.
Keith Mitchell, leader of Oxfordshire County Council, said the test had only been completed at two sites out of 72 over five days.
- In Cowley, 62 people were clocked speeding, representing a rise of 88%, the partnership revealed.
- In Woodstock 110 drivers were caught doing more than the 30mph limit, which is 18% more than the average for 2010.

As the saying goes lies, damn lies and statistics or should that be the devil is in the detail as the headline 88% increase was from one camera site in Cowley over 5 days

10 Aug 2010

Quote by HnS
The number of drivers speeding past Oxfordshire's deactivated speed cameras has increased by up to 88%, a road safety partnership claim.
Thames Valley's Safer Road Partnership monitored drivers on two roads in the county for five days.
The cameras were axed at the end of July after the county council withdrew £600,000 in funding due to budget cuts.
Keith Mitchell, leader of Oxfordshire County Council, said the test had only been completed at two sites out of 72 over five days.
- In Cowley, 62 people were clocked speeding, representing a rise of 88%, the partnership revealed.
- In Woodstock 110 drivers were caught doing more than the 30mph limit, which is 18% more than the average for 2010.

As the saying goes lies, damn lies and statistics or should that be the devil is in the detail as the headline 88% increase was from one camera site in Cowley over 5 days
I would say the devil in the detail is when they stated "by up to".
This is similar in the sales section when they say "Upto 50% off" and the only thing that is 50% off is my thong from last years collection. Everything else is 10% lol

You need to read these newspapers more clearly. They state it in such a way that only the observant is not taken for a mug.
Dave_Notts

11 Aug 2010

Keith Mitchell, leader of Oxfordshire County Council, said the test had only been completed at two sites out of 72 over five days.
- In Cowley, 62 people were clocked speeding, representing a rise of 88%, the partnership revealed.
- In Woodstock 110 drivers were caught doing more than the 30mph limit, which is 18% more than the average for 2010.

It also suggests that the survey is listing everyone over the exact limit and comparing these numbers to the numbers caught by the camera which will usually be set to slightly over the limit.
Not like for like at all.
Anyone got a cheap thong for sale?

11 Aug 2010

Quote by northwest-cpl
Keith Mitchell, leader of Oxfordshire County Council, said the test had only been completed at two sites out of 72 over five days.
- In Cowley, 62 people were clocked speeding, representing a rise of 88%, the partnership revealed.
- In Woodstock 110 drivers were caught doing more than the 30mph limit, which is 18% more than the average for 2010.

It also suggests that the survey is listing everyone over the exact limit and comparing these numbers to the numbers caught by the camera which will usually be set to slightly over the limit.
Not like for like at all.
Anyone got a cheap thong for sale?
If truth be known, cars were probably always exceeding the speed limit in that general area but just slowing down at the point of the camera. Now the camera is "off", they just carry on regardless which is what made the speed cameras such a farce overall.

11 Aug 2010

Quote by kentswingers777
what do I know?

Sometimes it's just like shooting fish in a barrel.....I'll resist, there's no sport in it

11 Aug 2010

Quote by HnS
'Class War' on speeders and Staggers hasn't responded yet either ?
(only joking Staggers )
That might be one view in the Daily Mail, howewever the traffic taliban of North Wales still seem keen on being indiscriminate, i.e. get any and every one.
It's rumoured that the summer holiday period is also their busiest, well there seems to be more of them hiding and in plain sight on the A55 main route through North Wales at the moment.
Aside from any 'class' differentiation, it would also appear to depend on who you are, or more particularly who your employer is. From memory the PC caught doing in excess of 150mph a couple of three years ago kept his job and license :twisted:
(General public opinion at the time being one rule for them and another for us)

It would seem obvious that class is a factor....availability of vehicles is one aspect.....the older cars driven by the less well off in poorer areas are far easier to steal lol

11 Aug 2010

Quote by Staggerlee_BB
It would seem obvious that class is a factor....availability of vehicles is one aspect.....the older cars driven by the less well off in poorer areas are far easier to steal

And, if there like mine much slower :lol:
*Snip of quote*
The number of drivers speeding past Oxfordshire's deactivated speed cameras has increased by up to 88%, a road safety partnership claim.
Forgive my ignorance, but if they are switched of, how does anyone know that speeding has increased?

11 Aug 2010

Quote by Bluefish2009
It would seem obvious that class is a factor....availability of vehicles is one aspect.....the older cars driven by the less well off in poorer areas are far easier to steal

And, if there like mine much slower :lol:
*Snip of quote*
The number of drivers speeding past Oxfordshire's deactivated speed cameras has increased by up to 88%, a road safety partnership claim.
Forgive my ignorance, but if they are switched of, how does anyone know that speeding has increased?
They only said that...
the fines are in the post pmsl

11 Aug 2010

Quote by GnV
It would seem obvious that class is a factor....availability of vehicles is one aspect.....the older cars driven by the less well off in poorer areas are far easier to steal

And, if there like mine much slower :lol:
*Snip of quote*
The number of drivers speeding past Oxfordshire's deactivated speed cameras has increased by up to 88%, a road safety partnership claim.
Forgive my ignorance, but if they are switched of, how does anyone know that speeding has increased?
They only said that...
the fines are in the post pmsl
:censored:

11 Aug 2010

OOh can I have a whinge about the police in North Wales.
The buggers have got nothing better to do than harrass the law abiding motorist doing the generally accepted 90 in a 70 and 70 in a 50 down the A55. We are lucky, they post notices of the speed traps in the welsh language papers. I pity the poor tourists.

11 Aug 2010

Quote by Ben_welshminx
OOh can I have a whinge about the police in North Wales.
The buggers have got nothing better to do than harrass the law abiding motorist doing the generally accepted 90 in a 70 and 70 in a 50 down the A55. We are lucky, they post notices of the speed traps in the welsh language papers. I pity the poor tourists.

Is there no real crime in wales they could investigate?

11 Aug 2010

Quote by Bluefish2009
Is there no real crime in wales they could investigate?

Sheep theft. lol

11 Aug 2010

Quote by kentswingers777
Is there no real crime in wales they could investigate?

Sheep theft. lol

I have heard, on the grape vine, that is not the only thing that happen with the sheep in that part of the country
wink

Aparently they eat them as well :giggle:

11 Aug 2010

Can't remeber which celebrity said it.......
If you drive at 40 on a stretch of road that has 4 cameras that take your photo and you do not speed up or slow down...........then have you speeded 4 times or once? Speed limit was 30
Dave_Notts

11 Aug 2010

I think its cos there aint much crime and theres a lot of coppers cos the people are spread out.

11 Aug 2010

Quote by Dave__Notts
Can't remeber which celebrity said it.......
If you drive at 40 on a stretch of road that has 4 cameras that take your photo and you do not speed up or slow down...........then have you speeded 4 times or once? Speed limit was 30
Dave_Notts

You would be done four times...that's the law. lol

Plus it would be twelve points so an automatic ban.
Seems a very fair way to get more cars off the road.

11 Aug 2010

DO y athink if a speeding offence meant an automatic ban folk would stop speeding?

11 Aug 2010

Quote by Ben_welshminx
DO y athink if a speeding offence meant an automatic ban folk would stop speeding?

It does already.

11 Aug 2010

I think we should do that---maybe reduce it to six points for a ban.

11 Aug 2010

Quote by Ben_welshminx
I think we should do that---maybe reduce it to six points for a ban.

So you would say it would be ok to ban someone for doing 44 mph twice in a 40 zone?

11 Aug 2010

Why not?

12 Aug 2010

What happens to the economy when all these people are banned from driving and start losing their jobs too? Cos that often goes hand in hand with a ban.
Speed school, for want of a better name for it, was designed to educate rather than punish with points. Surely this is better?

12 Aug 2010

Quote by kentswingers777
I think we should do that---maybe reduce it to six points for a ban.

So you would say it would be ok to ban someone for doing 44 mph twice in a 40 zone?
Correct me if im wrong but aren't cameras calibrated to the speed limit + 10%. over 44mph would trigger it but 44mph shouldnt't.

12 Aug 2010

Quote by vampanya
What happens to the economy when all these people are banned from driving and start losing their jobs too? Cos that often goes hand in hand with a ban.
Speed school, for want of a better name for it, was designed to educate rather than punish with points. Surely this is better?

what they said ^^^^^

12 Aug 2010

I'm not a they... silly

hwoar:
Ok, maybe I am lol

12 Aug 2010

Quote by Ben_welshminx
Why not?

So you would have people banned and has been mentioned possibly lose their jobs, for straying slightly over a speed limit?
Thankfully the powers that be do not see that unless you do excessive speed on a road. Anything over a ton is an instant ban, and I would say if someone did say 70 in a 30 that would also be an instant ban....and rightly so btw.
But the next time you go out on your cycle, sorry you have a bike now...watch the speed. Because life has a very funny way of biting people up the arse, as I would really find it funny that the next time YOU and you will for sure, go over the speed limit you get caught, which YOU will at some point.
I wonder if your attitude to the six point ban will still be relevant to you.
Do me a favour though....don't now say you never speed because it is impossible on a motorcycle, not to stray over the limit, the very straying that you will advocate people get banned for.....remember, watch that speed.

12 Aug 2010

I was told once you had 3 miles and hour leeway + 10%, over the speed limit, don't quote me as it may have been incorrect or changed by know dunno

12 Aug 2010

Quote by vampanya
I think we should do that---maybe reduce it to six points for a ban.

So you would say it would be ok to ban someone for doing 44 mph twice in a 40 zone?
Correct me if im wrong but aren't cameras calibrated to the speed limit + 10%. over 44mph would trigger it but 44mph shouldnt't.
Going from memory here (so no links to back it up redface

:lol2: ) it used to depend on the police force's (ie chief constable) decision. Some areas of Wales used to run a zero tolerance policy on certain roads. so 41 in a 40 would see a NIP land on your mat and they'd rely on most people not having the knowledge of how to challenge the notice, but just accept it and pay up.
It used to be areas of Wales that were by and far the worst for this, especially for bikers ..... where do you live again Ben? :giggle:
There's also approximately a 5% tolerance in your speedo and in electronic components and extremes of temperature can also affect adjustments, which is why speed detection equipment should be calibrated on a regular basis. There's also evidence that police routinely misuse handheld equipment and that some of the devices used can be very easily mislead, so your speedo may indicate that you're under the limit, but the misused/easily fooled handheld device says you're not and they'll chance a fine. sad

I must admit I dislike the current speed enforcement system and the fact that now you're threatened with a fine and points if you don't incriminate yourself after receiving a NIP. There was a case a couple of years ago taken to the European courts of Human Rights because the HRA says that you cannot be threatened into incriminating yourself. The outcome was that you can't be threatened into incriminating yourself unless you own a driving licence, in which case you're human rights are suspended and you're shafted. confused

I discussed this once with a mate of mine who at the time was a magistrate. He said that he'd regularly dismiss cases before they were presented because of the pressure of their workload and he felt that if a member of the public had taken the time to attend court, then they must feel they have a good argument for the attempted conviction being unsound, therefore it wasn't worth his time to hear it.
At this point I bought him a very large drink. :lol2:

12 Aug 2010

Very interesting Easy.

12 Aug 2010

Yes Easy, the emphasis in law is always that on having to prove guilt. The speeding letters were switching that round so that they said that the individual had to basically incriminate whoever was driving. There were cases at the time where people refused to incriminate themselves or someone else and therefore weren't fined but it was seen a loophole in the law and closed up pretty quick.

Do speed cameras cut accidents ?