dressing up or sexualising childhood?

12 Feb 2010

" and why should anything in the daily mail be accurate " ?
Found this somewhere, but of course only humour. wink

The subject IF it were to be believed dont young girls of most ages love to play with makeup? They see their Mother doing it and want to copy.
People want to make a comment over this, and then say it is fine to start teaching kids as young as five about sex. A strange one.
I would rather one of my Daughters had an innocent makeover, than to be taught sex in a school by people that do not know my child, at the age of five or six.
Sorry about the comparison between the two, but what the heck is wrong with a child wanting to look like their Mother? No jokes about it being Jordan as I cannot stand the woman or most of the things she does.....her ex is so much better off without her in his life.
It once again is about common sense and innocence,and not about manipulation or sexual explotation by the parent.
Some want to take away a childs innocence by teaching them the " mechanics " of sex, yet now see the innocence of a child putting make up on in the same vein....2010 in Britain eh?

12 Feb 2010

I am not even going to look at this.
I am sick of robbing child of the childhood. Dressing them up for compitsions and trying to get them in to TV ect. Perhaps the perents should be taken out and shot?
Travis
....but Kaz, it is a worthy post, it is just I have come to a conclussion, and unussauly am not will to be perswaded otherwise.

12 Feb 2010

I am no left wing sandal wearer and people on here know how strong my views are with regard to letting kids grow up, and to be kids for as long as possible but...come on here. Do people really think this is sexualk exploitation fgs?
Something like this I would not agree with...

Both of my kids used to go to dancing classes and to competitions when they were three and four years of age. ALL the kids used to wear makeup and get their hair done...some of them used to look like Barby dolls, but is that really exploitation?
IF I was to see a child outside say walking the shops, then it would be a different matter, but in the home I cannot see a problem. Did Jordan take her out like that?
I am much more worried about so called " experts " teaching my six year old Grandaughter about sex. I think I know which one will harm their innocence more.
Now I do think the Daily wail are talking absolute rubbish.....obviously did not have a decent story to put on that page.

12 Feb 2010

Quote by Kaznkev
Now i have disliked jordan ever since she said breasts were not for the feeding of babies,and i have never thought much of her,but this to me sank her to a new low,

(mind i do find it a bit rich that the paper that has been stalking hermione for years objects but thats another topic,it was the first link i found)
some might say this was harmless dressing up,but princess has not done this to herself,nor is she actually old enough to be doing the kind of role play that dressing up involves,
to me it looks like a woman who
1,sees her children as toys
2,sees females soley as sex objects
3,exploits her children for financial gain
over to you lot ..................................

Yep, am in total agreement with you Kaz. :thumbup:

12 Feb 2010

There is a thing called Pageants in the USA. Where young girls dress up and perform to the best of their abilities, a variety of inoffensive things. Jordan's daughter looks like that kind of thing. its a bit ott, but its not a sexual thing.
If anyone can look at that picture and feel sexual, they had probably better seek help. Also engineering a debate down that line is a bit weird. Its just not anything to do with sex.
These ideas of converging kids along with sexuality is becoming too commonplace. It seems to be one the first things we consider when discussing kids. It really doesn't make sense to develop such things too much.

12 Feb 2010

Quote by kentswingers777
I am much more worried about so called " experts " teaching my six year old Grandaughter about sex. I think I know which one will harm their innocence more.

Just out of interest, can you give some specifics about the sex education that your 6 year old grandchild has had at school. Chicks come from eggs, butterflies come from caterpillars and babies come from mummies seems to be what is taught up here, which doesn't appear to take any innocence away. It does answer the questions that most 6 year olds ask though, but then again maybe in the north we're a bit behind the times.

12 Feb 2010

Quote by Kaznkev
There is a thing called Pageants in the USA. Where young girls dress up and perform to the best of their abilities, a variety of inoffensive things. Jordan's daughter looks like that kind of thing. its a bit ott, but its not a sexual thing.
duncan i challenge you to watch this link and then say its only a bit ott, it is disturbing in the extreme

If anyone can look at that picture and feel sexual, they had probably better seek help. Also engineering a debate down that line is a bit weird. Its just not anything to do with sex.
These ideas of converging kids along with sexuality is becoming too commonplace. It seems to be one the first things we consider when discussing kids. It really doesn't make sense to develop such things too much.

the rest of your post i am choosing to ignore as it accuses me of things id rather not argue about
exactly its just not worth going there in the first place......

12 Feb 2010

Quote by northwest-cpl
I am much more worried about so called " experts " teaching my six year old Grandaughter about sex. I think I know which one will harm their innocence more.

Just out of interest, can you give some specifics about the sex education that your 6 year old grandchild has had at school. Chicks come from eggs, butterflies come from caterpillars and babies come from mummies seems to be what is taught up here, which doesn't appear to take any innocence away. It does answer the questions that most 6 year olds ask though, but then again maybe in the north we're a bit behind the times.
Well of course, no sensible person could object to the whole caterpillars turning into pretty butterflies thing, could they? confused

It's when the birds and the bees start rearing their ugly 'eads that the shit hits the fan!
Bloody specists! mad

Not that there is a very great deal about birds and bees at primary school at all you understand, obviously, but I'm quite sure you take my point? lol

;)
Now back on topic . . . Jordan, sexualisation of pre-pubescents, yadda, yadda, ya? I see nothing wrong in children's dressing up games. My young male cousin has been prancing about in his mum's backless dresses for ages FGS. rolleyes

It'll probably turn him into some kinda latent homosexual at some point, but hey? :? :lol: I do however find Katie's parading of her two year old child about for public consumption ((( Cos after all, her Facebook profile is just like, a dead private family album that noone was ever meant to see, and stuff, innit? :roll: ))) quite disturbing. It seems really quite calculated, and more about keeping the media creation that is 'Jordan' rolling, than it's about an innocent two year old's dressing up games? I wouldn't say it's overtly sexualised material exactly, but I do find it a bit sordid and exploitative every which bloody way on the whole. Maybe I'm just colouring Jordan's motives with my own prejudices, cos I don't have much time for her TBQH? dunno

Course, the irony is that the media machine pouncing on her will no doubt be paying royalties to Jordan, Inc for the use of the picture, and there's probably mileage and copy still to be had on this one, so everybody wins in the end, whichever which way? :?
In short, which is prolly what I was actually aiming for all along, rather than all that longwinded friday night rambling up there, well yeah Kaz, I agree mostly with yer original post? :? Never did learn that whole succinct and to the point thing very well, did I? banghead

:roll: :lol:
N x x x ;)

12 Feb 2010

Quote by Kaznkev
There is a thing called Pageants in the USA. Where young girls dress up and perform to the best of their abilities, a variety of inoffensive things. Jordan's daughter looks like that kind of thing. its a bit ott, but its not a sexual thing.
duncan i challenge you to watch this link and then say its only a bit ott, it is disturbing in the extreme

If anyone can look at that picture and feel sexual, they had probably better seek help. Also engineering a debate down that line is a bit weird. Its just not anything to do with sex.
These ideas of converging kids along with sexuality is becoming too commonplace. It seems to be one the first things we consider when discussing kids. It really doesn't make sense to develop such things too much.

the rest of your post i am choosing to ignore as it accuses me of things id rather not argue about
exactly its just not worth going there in the first place......
you went there ,not me, and id like to know if you watched the link
i did watch the link. its not sexual.

12 Feb 2010

What Jordan is doing is 'grooming' her child and the public for media consumption.

12 Feb 2010

Quote by Kaznkev
There is a thing called Pageants in the USA. Where young girls dress up and perform to the best of their abilities, a variety of inoffensive things. Jordan's daughter looks like that kind of thing. its a bit ott, but its not a sexual thing.
duncan i challenge you to watch this link and then say its only a bit ott, it is disturbing in the extreme

If anyone can look at that picture and feel sexual, they had probably better seek help. Also engineering a debate down that line is a bit weird. Its just not anything to do with sex.
These ideas of converging kids along with sexuality is becoming too commonplace. It seems to be one the first things we consider when discussing kids. It really doesn't make sense to develop such things too much.

the rest of your post i am choosing to ignore as it accuses me of things id rather not argue about
exactly its just not worth going there in the first place......
you went there ,not me, and id like to know if you watched the link
i did watch the link. its not sexual.
there is a difference bewteen sexual and sexualised
Its neither.

12 Feb 2010

I feel what has happened here is totally, and morally wrong.
Innocent play time with mum has been turned into a way to make profit, plain and simple.
Jordan knows full well her position in the media. Had this been between mother and daughter that's fine, but it has deliberately been put some where the press can get at it and that was a deliberate ploy for publicity, and that is where my problem with this lies.

12 Feb 2010

Quote by Max777
Now i have disliked jordan ever since she said breasts were not for the feeding of babies,and i have never thought much of her,but this to me sank her to a new low,

(mind i do find it a bit rich that the paper that has been stalking hermione for years objects but thats another topic,it was the first link i found)
some might say this was harmless dressing up,but princess has not done this to herself,nor is she actually old enough to be doing the kind of role play that dressing up involves,
to me it looks like a woman who
1,sees her children as toys
2,sees females soley as sex objects
3,exploits her children for financial gain
over to you lot ..................................

Yep, am in total agreement with you Kaz. :thumbup:
Yes, me too - a very sad state of affairs.
Plim :sad:

13 Feb 2010

Quote by kentswingers777
" and why should anything in the daily mail be accurate " ?
Found this somewhere, but of course only humour.
The subject IF it were to be believed dont young girls of most ages love to play with makeup? They see their Mother doing it and want to copy.
People want to make a comment over this, and then say it is fine to start teaching kids as young as five about sex. A strange one.
I would rather one of my Daughters had an innocent makeover, than to be taught sex in a school by people that do not know my child, at the age of five or six.
Sorry about the comparison between the two, but what the heck is wrong with a child wanting to look like their Mother? No jokes about it being Jordan as I cannot stand the woman or most of the things she does.....her ex is so much better off without her in his life.
It once again is about common sense and innocence,and not about manipulation or sexual explotation by the parent.
Some want to take away a childs innocence by teaching them the " mechanics " of sex, yet now see the innocence of a child putting make up on in the same vein....2010 in Britain eh?

False dichotomy alert...

13 Feb 2010

Quote by duncanlondon
There is a thing called Pageants in the USA. Where young girls dress up and perform to the best of their abilities, a variety of inoffensive things. Jordan's daughter looks like that kind of thing. its a bit ott, but its not a sexual thing.
If anyone can look at that picture and feel sexual, they had probably better seek help. Also engineering a debate down that line is a bit weird. Its just not anything to do with sex.
These ideas of converging kids along with sexuality is becoming too commonplace. It seems to be one the first things we consider when discussing kids. It really doesn't make sense to develop such things too much.

I agree with the OP, I think this stuff is messed up, but then I don't think that's new in the case of Jordan really.
I think pageants are sick, I really do. I'm pretty stunned to see pageants being held up as a positive example for anything. Teaching young children to make themselves up like porn stars is weird. (or dolls - those are the two ways this can be interpreted)
I mean, porn stars looking like porn stars is one thing (and not to a lot of people's tastes on this forum apparently, to judge from the porn thread currently running in the cafe), and porn stars being deliberately chosen to look like young girls is another, somewhat odd, thing, but teaching very young girls to make themselves look like porn stars is a very very weird thing.
You can make a strong case that this kind of stuff, even overlooking the sexual connotations, has a role in objectification - girls being taught that the single most important thing in life is the way they look is damaging; and I also have a problem with that particular ideal of beauty - the eyeliner mascara blusher lipstick fake tan fake eyelashes fake boobs fake everything approach - being taught to children because it basically says: there is nothing good about the inner you - you have to hide it and cover it up with this (again) weirdly fictionalised, shallow, one-dimensional facade. if you're going to train young children to do all of that to their exteriors, what are the effects on their interiors? My money is on a higher chance of eating disorders, low self-esteem, and all the maladaptive behaviours that this can cause.
If you're going to say "it's all just a bit of fun, don't be silly" - just look at her mum! Jordan is the walking example of where this can lead; except that unlike a lot of people who've gone down that route she's actually managed to keep earning a decent living from it. Pretty shocking to think of it but she's come out better than a lot of the people on this path...

13 Feb 2010

Quote by Bluefish2009
I feel what has happened here is totally, and morally wrong.
Innocent play time with mum has been turned into a way to make profit, plain and simple.
Jordan knows full well her position in the media. Had this been between mother and daughter that's fine, but it has deliberately been put some where the press can get at it and that was a deliberate ploy for publicity, and that is where my problem with this lies.

As examples of what happens when you exploit your children for gain I tender Michael Jackson and Lena Zavaroni.
As examples of what happens when people confuse celebrity with genuien worth I tender Katie Price, aka Jordan, a woman with all the sexual allure and intellectual content of a blow up doll.

13 Feb 2010

Quote by tomu
There is a thing called Pageants in the USA. Where young girls dress up and perform to the best of their abilities, a variety of inoffensive things. Jordan's daughter looks like that kind of thing. its a bit ott, but its not a sexual thing.
If anyone can look at that picture and feel sexual, they had probably better seek help. Also engineering a debate down that line is a bit weird. Its just not anything to do with sex.
These ideas of converging kids along with sexuality is becoming too commonplace. It seems to be one the first things we consider when discussing kids. It really doesn't make sense to develop such things too much.

I agree with the OP, I think this stuff is messed up, but then I don't think that's new in the case of Jordan really.
I think pageants are sick, I really do. I'm pretty stunned to see pageants being held up as a positive example for anything. Teaching young children to make themselves up like porn stars is weird. (or dolls - those are the two ways this can be interpreted)
I mean, porn stars looking like porn stars is one thing (and not to a lot of people's tastes on this forum apparently, to judge from the porn thread currently running in the cafe), and porn stars being deliberately chosen to look like young girls is another, somewhat odd, thing, but teaching very young girls to make themselves look like porn stars is a very very weird thing.
You can make a strong case that this kind of stuff, even overlooking the sexual connotations, has a role in objectification - girls being taught that the single most important thing in life is the way they look is damaging; and I also have a problem with that particular ideal of beauty - the eyeliner mascara blusher lipstick fake tan fake eyelashes fake boobs fake everything approach - being taught to children because it basically says: there is nothing good about the inner you - you have to hide it and cover it up with this (again) weirdly fictionalised, shallow, one-dimensional facade. if you're going to train young children to do all of that to their exteriors, what are the effects on their interiors? My money is on a higher chance of eating disorders, low self-esteem, and all the maladaptive behaviours that this can cause.
If you're going to say "it's all just a bit of fun, don't be silly" - just look at her mum! Jordan is the walking example of where this can lead; except that unlike a lot of people who've gone down that route she's actually managed to keep earning a decent living from it. Pretty shocking to think of it but she's come out better than a lot of the people on this path...
worship

13 Feb 2010

Quote by tomu
There is a thing called Pageants in the USA. Where young girls dress up and perform to the best of their abilities, a variety of inoffensive things. Jordan's daughter looks like that kind of thing. its a bit ott, but its not a sexual thing.
If anyone can look at that picture and feel sexual, they had probably better seek help. Also engineering a debate down that line is a bit weird. Its just not anything to do with sex.
These ideas of converging kids along with sexuality is becoming too commonplace. It seems to be one the first things we consider when discussing kids. It really doesn't make sense to develop such things too much.

I agree with the OP, I think this stuff is messed up, but then I don't think that's new in the case of Jordan really.
I think pageants are sick, I really do. I'm pretty stunned to see pageants being held up as a positive example for anything. Teaching young children to make themselves up like porn stars is weird. (or dolls - those are the two ways this can be interpreted)
I mean, porn stars looking like porn stars is one thing (and not to a lot of people's tastes on this forum apparently, to judge from the porn thread currently running in the cafe), and porn stars being deliberately chosen to look like young girls is another, somewhat odd, thing, but teaching very young girls to make themselves look like porn stars is a very very weird thing.
You can make a strong case that this kind of stuff, even overlooking the sexual connotations, has a role in objectification - girls being taught that the single most important thing in life is the way they look is damaging; and I also have a problem with that particular ideal of beauty - the eyeliner mascara blusher lipstick fake tan fake eyelashes fake boobs fake everything approach - being taught to children because it basically says: there is nothing good about the inner you - you have to hide it and cover it up with this (again) weirdly fictionalised, shallow, one-dimensional facade. if you're going to train young children to do all of that to their exteriors, what are the effects on their interiors? My money is on a higher chance of eating disorders, low self-esteem, and all the maladaptive behaviours that this can cause.
If you're going to say "it's all just a bit of fun, don't be silly" - just look at her mum! Jordan is the walking example of where this can lead; except that unlike a lot of people who've gone down that route she's actually managed to keep earning a decent living from it. Pretty shocking to think of it but she's come out better than a lot of the people on this path...
What he said...

13 Feb 2010

Two good sides of an arguement...

For me the first one is more how I feel about it.
It seems to me that more comments here are made about Jordan, than the reason for the thread.
I wonder if a thread would have been done if it would have been say Marlene Klass?
Or is it just a knock Jordan thread?
I cant stand her either so have nothing to gain from saying that, it just how it is coming over to me.

15 Feb 2010

kids playing dress up is one thing but parents treating kids as mini adults is another all together and its becoming all too common
let kids b kids we are old way too long so let them enjoy childish ways
i have a friend who insisted on telling her son he is sexy from a baby i mean honestly how could he be sexy he is a child handsome, cute or gorgeous even but never sexy, she seems to encourage him to b older than his years talking about things he would wish to do with his girlfriend (they are 7) that i'm sure anyone with any morals would be horrified at but she finds hilarious that a 7 year old knows such things, i fear they are heading for a mighty fall at this rate, i have known this friend forever since we were younger than her son is now and i know this has nothing to do with how she was brought up, another friend well actually aquantance really found it highly amusing that her 6 year old daughter copied her pole dancing routine she did for fitness declairing "doesn't she look sexy" NOOOOOOOOOOO she doesn't ffs the worst was she was getting the child to perform the routine for anyone that would watch glowing with pride
i'm sorry but i just don't get it, i have 2 sons and i have always been incredibly open with them answering any questions they had but always keeping it age appropriate and never encouraging them to grow up faster than their years dictate
i feel too many parents see their children as an accesory to show off and the trend is sadly mini adults
and this isn't jordon bashing its moronic parent bashing