The backbench motion - prompted after a petition was signed by more than 100,000 people - was defeated by 483 votes to 111,
Was this the right decision at this time, given the current situation in the euro-zone?
I think it was the right result at this time
Was it right that the prime minister used a three line whip, when he did not need to do so?
I feel he was foolish to do this
1) right result at this time
2) 3 line whip the wrong move, plus didn't have an effect on those voting against in his own party, just stores up trouble in his own party for later
Absolutely right decision now and for the future. You can't trust the electorate now with something as important as this. Time has moved on too much.
Cameron should be thumping the table very firmly about the wastage within the EU and particularly the Commission. They are spending money like it is going out of fashion - and in a way, for Europe it is! The Commission particularly has to be given a reality check as much as Greece, Italy and Portugal with their austerity measures. Britain's contribution should be re-negotiated and he shouldn't come back from Brussels until he can repeat MT's mantra No! No! No! to the House.
There are far reaching consequences for Britain's withdrawal from the EU - much more than 'little-englanders' can imagine and the damage it would do to trade will be enormous.
As for the 3 line whip, big mistake. If that also translates to punishing back benchers (including errant PPS's) and threatening them with selection problems with their Constituency Chairmen, the more popular ones might just go it alone at the next election and give Cameron a bloody nose. I doubt he could survive as well as William Hague has after losing an election.
But just maybe the electorate is right and we should leave.
There maybe consequencies but there are just as many if we single currency is going to not in the next month but at some point it will we can spend billions propping up the the PIG but money will run out once it does then what.
Hmmmmm. Interesting response.
Not too thick or stupid no, but perhaps misguided by the popular press. This is a complex issue involving far more than what appears on the surface. Give them an in-out vote by all means if it makes them happy, but getting Parliament to vote in favour of withdrawal from the EU is another matter altogether.
I am still allowed to vote in Parliamentary elections but only for a limited time. I have to re-register with the returning officer annually to allow that to happen. And as for one man one vote, I cannot vote in the Presidential or Parliamentary elections in France, only European and local ones - which is fine; I can't vote in local elections in the UK. The problem comes when the time limit is reached. I can still only vote in local, European and French elections and thus will be disenfranchised completely on National elections UK and France. Democracy eh?
That's British democracy for you by the way. If I were French or any other EU Nationality living in England I would not suffer such an injustice.
Something for you to mull over.
I agree about the 'populace'. Current politics is seen a a specialist subject at Uni and barely covered at any level in school. That leaves people with the limited and often biassed subset of information provided by the news media. While a full assessment of a wide range of media might give a reasonable overview, how many people actively seek out that range of opinion?
Sadly school manages to make History boring (how the F do they do that btw? Comparing school history with, for instance Time Team) so God knows what they would do with Politics.
Total tosh.
The Euro is f****d and we are increasingly ruled by an unelected and unwanted European government that not a single British citizen voted for.
Call us thick, uneducated, unreliable - call us what you want - but this has to stop.
Fear is the only thing holding Europe together at the moment and the only thing holding the European currency together and unfortunately resisting change through fear has historically proved to be a very bad decision - ALWAYS.
mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
so let me see if we've got this right
1973 Tory Prime Minister Edward Heath takes the UK into the European Economic Community (EEC)
1975 67% of UK public, under Labour's Harold Wilson, vote to stay in EEC
1983 In opposition, Labour pledge to withdraw from the, then, EU if they win the next election, which the Tories under Margaret Thatcher won
1989 Tory Prime Minister Margaret Thatcher says we'll join the European Exchange Rate Mechanism
1992 Tory Prime Minister John Major signs the Maastricht Treaty, creating the modern day European Union, although the UK has to exit the European Exchange Rate Mechanism after sterling came under major pressure from currency speculators (subsequently dubbed "Black Wednesday").
1993 Tory rebels fail in their campaign for the Tory Prime Minister John Major to hold a referendum on the Maastricht Treaty, which states The ratio of the annual government deficit to gross domestic product (GDP) must not exceed 3% at the end of the preceding fiscal year and The ratio of gross government debt to GDP must not exceed 60% at the end of the preceding fiscal year. (As of the end of 2010, only two EU member states, Poland and the Czech Republic, still meet this target).
UK Independance Party (UKIP) established
1996 Sir James Goldsmith launches the Referendum Party to campaign against EU membership by the UK
1997 Britain signs the Amsterdam Treaty, although UK remains outside the Schengen agreement.
Despite millions being spent, the Referedum Party secure just 3% of the vote in the general election. Labour agree to a referendum as a "pre-condition" for Britain for joining the single currency.
Referendum Party ceases to exist.
1999 The 'euro' is launched, the UK decides not to join it
2001 Treat of Nice signed, further amending the Maastricht Treaty. UKIP achieve 1.5% of the vote in the general election.
2005 Labour, the Conservatives and the Liberal Democrats all promise a referendum on whether to ratify the EU Constitution in their general election manifestos.
2007 The European Commission proposes a replacement treaty, which comes to be known as the Lisbon Treaty. The Labour government says it is a different document, amending not overwriting existing treaties, and a referendum is not needed. The Charter of Fundamental Rights of the European Union interpreted by the European Court of Justice is not to apply fully to the United Kingdom, Poland, and the Czech Republic.
Conservative leader David Cameron gives a "cast-iron guarantee" to hold a referendum on any treaty emerging from the Lisbon process if he becomes PM.
2008 Lib Dem leader Nick Clegg calls for an "in-out" referendum on UK membership of the EU. MPs reject a Conservative call for a referendum on whether the Lisbon Treaty should be ratified by 63 votes. The UK ratifies the Lisbon Treaty
2009 David Cameron admits he will not be able to fulfil his pledge to hold a referendum on the Lisbon Treaty because it has been ratified by all EU member states. But he says, if elected, no future substantial transfer of powers will take place without the approval of the British people
2010 In their election manifesto, the Lib Dems pledge to hold an "in-out" referendum the next time there is a "fundamental change" in the EU's treaty arrangements.
UKIP achieve 3.1% of the vote in the general election.
The Conservative manifesto stating "We will continue to be an active and activist participant in the European Union and we will ensure that Britain does not join or prepare to join the Euro in this Parliament."
2011 Tory MP Peter Bone fails in a bid to secure an "in-out" referendum.
People's Pledge campaign for a referendum is launched.
The passing of the 'Referendum Lock' fulfils a Conservative Party manifesto commitment to give the British people a say on further power transfers to the EU.
A petition calling for a referendum on EU membership, signed by 100,000 people.
The motion calling for a referendum on EU membership is defeated in the Commons by 483 votes to 111.
So looking at the above, especially the election results, and all that has been said by others whilst we can see a sizeable number of people have indicated that they have continued to be or have decided to be against UK membership of the EU, there is no evidence to suggest that there is a majority.
Therefore whilst we like that or not, whether we agree with this government/coalition or not (we don't, but hey ho that's democracy for you), the simple facts are that there are more pressing things to be addressed, recession, unemployment, inflation, etc. rather than the rabid comments from a minority.
You should get out more H...
but anyway, thanks for your précis of events.. most helpful :thumbup:
And all it proves is that people vote for the 3 main parties at election time.
But if 100,00 people can be bothered to sign online and we are only a minority then why are they so scared of a referendum.
Ah, more clear now thanks (and the bottle of wine has now worn off) :grin:
:taz: 
