This could be what we hear a lot very soon.
The Independence vote is almost upon us.
I have said many times that personally I hope they vote NO to independence, we have been good together for too long to break things up, yes we have had our differences but we have had that with most Nations in the world including the Irish who have always fought alongside us, so have the Welsh and Scottish.
The movie makers do us know favours, the film Braveheart was so untrue it should have been marketed alongside the sightings of a cow and a double decker bus on the moon.
William is thought by some to be of lower ranked nobility stock, whilst others believe him to be a descendent of Alan Wallace of Ayrshire a tenant farmer.
A recent programme on the discovery channels claims he was a common thief prior to being appointed Guardian of Scotland after he was instrumental in the defeat of the English army at Stirling.
I have a great respect for William Wallace, I attended his funeral some years ago but the portrayal of him in the movie has the usual Hollywood element of making a good movie.
Prima Nocta is another thing that has been inflated, there is no proof that such a law ever existed, many believe it was a rumour started by the French to drive a wedge between England and Scotland, there is some evidence that it was a ploy adopted by many Priests who took the virgin bride to be the night before her wedding so the groom would not get blood on himself. it could be that some Lords carried out the practice claiming it to be law when it wasn't, we didn't have TV, Radio or the Internet back then and many people only ever heard what the nobles told them.
There is no doubt that many Scottish Nobles gained much from Englands rule over Scotland and even in the film the then "Robert the Bruce" betrayed Scotland in favour of the English.
But what happens if Scotland does become independent ? many things could change ......
The chances of them retaining the British Pound is certainly in question.
Their desire to open their borders to make immigration easier will not bode well with those in England who are looking to tighten our borders. Will we see a new "wall" dividing the two nations, will there be a need for customs and excise control points between the two nations.
Will Scottish Nationals living in England be required to surrender their UK passports and apply for a Scottish Passport ?
They would no longer be members of the EU, will they still have the right to live and work not only in the UK but will the millions of them living in other EU countries have to go home ?
They can of course apply to the EU for membership but all new member states have to adopt the Euro and any such application could be vetoed by the founding members, the UK being one of the founding states.
What of the armed forces, of course we would have to allow every Scottish National the right to leave the British Armed Forces if they so wish but polls so far indicate that the vast majority would wish to continue serving and that the Scottish Defence Force might struggle to recruit people to serve.
Will Scotland be a member of NATO, it is not automatic especially with their policy on not having nuclear weapons based in Scotland or owned by them.
Our Nuclear Submarine base at Faslane would be re-located of course, we have no choice in that matter, probably to Barrow in Furness where the nuclear submarines are built.
Will Blackpool face closure, the largest percentage of visitors there come from Scotland, if a visit there requires a visa or passport it could put them off coming.
There are so many questions, so many changes that could occur.
I believe they should stay with us, but I also believe that if they choose to leave the Union then independence should be total and we should treat them the same as we treat any other non EU, none United Kingdom nation.
Join the most popular community of UK swingers now
Login
Farewell Scotland
Mod
Quote by MidsCouple24
I have a great respect for William Wallace, I attended his funeral some years ago
I knew you were an old guy J, but ffs didnt' think you were that old, as William Wallace died August 23, In the year 1305
OH! and Im Scottish by the way, but Im no gonna tell ye how Im gonna vote or what ah think
Quote by woohoo
I have a great respect for William Wallace, I attended his funeral some years ago
I knew you were an old guy J, but ffs didnt' think you were that old, as William Wallace died August 23, In the year 1305
OH! and Im Scottish by the way, but Im no gonna tell ye how Im gonna vote or what ah think
That is very true, but he was hung, drawn and quartered, most of his remains were passed around the areas to show them off, a few years ago members of the Wallace Clan led by a good friend of mine Seoras Wallace took his remains back home to be honourably buried, how much were genuine remains is not important, it was a symbolic gesture and part of a campaign to have Williams conviction of treason overturned on the grounds that longshanks was not HIS King but the King of England.
Sex God
They gone already 
wish they'd hurry up and make their minds up
if their going, then they are gone and an independant country, currency, borders, EU membership, etc.
Va
if their staying then as is
either way sort if out once and for all
wish they'd hurry up and make their minds up
if their going, then they are gone and an independant country, currency, borders, EU membership, etc.
Va
if their staying then as is
either way sort if out once and for all
Quote by MidsCouple24
The movie makers do us know favours, the film Braveheart was so untrue it should have been marketed alongside the sightings of a cow and a double decker bus on the moon.
I believed the cow on the moon thing, after all its in a very popular nursery rhyme called Hey Diddle Diddle - so it MUST be true :rascal:
This truly epic episode of a popular television programme PROVES there are cows on the moon :P
now i must go and get back into my special white jacket that gives me hugs from myself
Mod
Quote by Rogue_Trader
This could be what we hear a lot very soon.
The Independence vote is almost upon us.
Why is there not a vote to see if the rest of the nation want them?
Or a vote for the English to go it alone?
Sex God
I really think it's the currency question which will decide it and I suspect that the Scots will vote NO.
If you look at the independence / currency question and Alex Salmond saying "Oh yes, we'll keep the pound, it's our pound as well"
Then look at it like this;
Mrs Salmond comes home one night and says to her husband "Alex, we've been happily married for many a long year, but now I want to have my freedom. Nothing against you I just think I'll be better off if I'm independent".
Alex says "But honey we're better off together, please don't break up our happy marriage".
Mrs Salmond "Sorry Alex, I've made my mind up, we're splitting up...........but by the way, after we're divorced I WANT TO KEEP A JOINT BANK ACCOUNT OK ??"
Anybody on here been divorced? Would you keep a joint bank account with your ex ??
John
If you look at the independence / currency question and Alex Salmond saying "Oh yes, we'll keep the pound, it's our pound as well"
Then look at it like this;
Mrs Salmond comes home one night and says to her husband "Alex, we've been happily married for many a long year, but now I want to have my freedom. Nothing against you I just think I'll be better off if I'm independent".
Alex says "But honey we're better off together, please don't break up our happy marriage".
Mrs Salmond "Sorry Alex, I've made my mind up, we're splitting up...........but by the way, after we're divorced I WANT TO KEEP A JOINT BANK ACCOUNT OK ??"
Anybody on here been divorced? Would you keep a joint bank account with your ex ??
John
Mod
Quote by Geordiecpl2001
Anybody on here been divorced? Would you keep a joint bank account with your ex ? John
Eh!!
Now that's a hard question.
She was a multi billionaire when I married her and I was a penniless layabout.
I think the above answers itself
Quote by woohoo
This could be what we hear a lot very soon.
The Independence vote is almost upon us.
Why is there not a vote to see if the rest of the nation want them?
Or a vote for the English to go it alone?
Mr (call me David) Cameroon is already on the case woo. 2017 IIRC. I wonder if Mr Salmond will have a veto by then to prevent it :grin:
Quote by Geordiecpl2001
I really think it's the currency question which will decide it and I suspect that the Scots will vote NO.
If you look at the independence / currency question and Alex Salmond saying "Oh yes, we'll keep the pound, it's our pound as well"
Then look at it like this;
Mrs Salmond comes home one night and says to her husband "Alex, we've been happily married for many a long year, but now I want to have my freedom. Nothing against you I just think I'll be better off if I'm independent".
Alex says "But honey we're better off together, please don't break up our happy marriage".
Mrs Salmond "Sorry Alex, I've made my mind up, we're splitting up...........but by the way, after we're divorced I WANT TO KEEP A JOINT BANK ACCOUNT OK ??"
Anybody on here been divorced? Would you keep a joint bank account with your ex ??
John
Yes Scotland could keep the £ but it would be their £, their existing £ issued by such people as the Royal Bank of Scotland or the Clydesdale Bank and others, some shops in the other areas of the United Kingdom do not accept them, usually small corner shops, all the mainline shops quite rightly accept them. Chances are accepting them in England would cease if they vote for independence in the same way we did not accept the Irish Pound but did accept NI currency back in the day and the same way we do not accept Euros now.
However if they apply to join the EU it is the norm for the EU to insist on new member states making it obligatory for them to adopt the Euro.
An interesting factor is "who can vote"
The following groups of people can register to vote in the referendum:
•British citizens resident in Scotland.
•Qualifying Commonwealth citizens resident in Scotland. This means Commonwealth citizens who either have leave to remain in the UK or do not require such leave, and are resident in Scotland.
•Citizens of the Republic of Ireland and other EU countries resident in Scotland.
•Members of the House of Lords resident in Scotland.
•Service/Crown personnel serving in the UK or overseas in the Armed Forces or with Her Majesty’s Government who are registered to vote in Scotland.
Interesting for a number of reasons, it is said that a poll of the armed forces have indicated that the majority wish to remain in the British Army so would have to vote NO.
There are a large number of people residing in Scotland who are not of Scottish birth but eligible to vote, many permitted to be there because they are members of the EU, will they be worried that until Scotland becomes a member of the EU their right to live in Scotland could be in jeopardy, the same applies to those there under their Commonwealth status.
There are 4 times as many people of direct Scottish descent or birth living outside Scotland who are not eligible to vote, some 20 million of them.
The following groups of people can register to vote in the referendum:
•British citizens resident in Scotland.
•Qualifying Commonwealth citizens resident in Scotland. This means Commonwealth citizens who either have leave to remain in the UK or do not require such leave, and are resident in Scotland.
•Citizens of the Republic of Ireland and other EU countries resident in Scotland.
•Members of the House of Lords resident in Scotland.
•Service/Crown personnel serving in the UK or overseas in the Armed Forces or with Her Majesty’s Government who are registered to vote in Scotland.
Interesting for a number of reasons, it is said that a poll of the armed forces have indicated that the majority wish to remain in the British Army so would have to vote NO.
There are a large number of people residing in Scotland who are not of Scottish birth but eligible to vote, many permitted to be there because they are members of the EU, will they be worried that until Scotland becomes a member of the EU their right to live in Scotland could be in jeopardy, the same applies to those there under their Commonwealth status.
There are 4 times as many people of direct Scottish descent or birth living outside Scotland who are not eligible to vote, some 20 million of them.
Quote by MidsCouple24
The Independence vote is almost upon us.
But what happens if Scotland does become independent ? many things could change ......
The chances of them retaining the British Pound is certainly in question.
Their desire to open their borders to make immigration easier will not bode well with those in England who are looking to tighten our borders. Will we see a new "wall" dividing the two nations, will there be a need for customs and excise control points between the two nations.
Will Scottish Nationals living in England be required to surrender their UK passports and apply for a Scottish Passport ?
They would no longer be members of the EU, will they still have the right to live and work not only in the UK but will the millions of them living in other EU countries have to go home ?
They can of course apply to the EU for membership but all new member states have to adopt the Euro and any such application could be vetoed by the founding members, the UK being one of the founding states.
What of the armed forces, of course we would have to allow every Scottish National the right to leave the British Armed Forces if they so wish but polls so far indicate that the vast majority would wish to continue serving and that the Scottish Defence Force might struggle to recruit people to serve.
Will Scotland be a member of NATO, it is not automatic especially with their policy on not having nuclear weapons based in Scotland or owned by them.
Our Nuclear Submarine base at Faslane would be re-located of course, we have no choice in that matter, probably to Barrow in Furness where the nuclear submarines are built.
Will Blackpool face closure, the largest percentage of visitors there come from Scotland, if a visit there requires a visa or passport it could put them off coming.
There are so many questions, so many changes that could occur.
I believe they should stay with us, but I also believe that if they choose to leave the Union then independence should be total and we should treat them the same as we treat any other non EU, none United Kingdom nation.
Being 'Scots' and owning property both north and south of the border.
Currency: There's been a Scottish pound for as long as I can remember, so technically we already have our own currency. The question is more how to disentangle it from the English one. When currencies were based on the 'gold standard' it would have been easy the 'Bank of England' (one wonders why it's not the Bank of the United Kingdom - but that's another thread.
) they could just transfer the relevant number of gold bars to a central bank in Scotland. However, the proponents of the 'No' vote sold the gold at a loss and implemented 'Quantitative Easing' instead so it's just paper money now.Immigration: Yep, we should probably limit the number of English coming in! :lol:
Passports: Many people have dual nationality passports. Easy enough to issue a Scottish one to those who want one.
EU: Scotland would probably follow the Swiss here and not join the 'EU' but retain the trading links via EFTA. Never been a problem for the Swiss. The Scots want the Euro even less than the English!
The Armed Forces: They'll probably settle on a 'Defence Force' style and let personnel choose to either transfer or remain in the reducing British Forces organisation.
NATO: With the strategic position of Scotland, NATO would be loathed to loose the ability to use Scotlands bases and the usual art of compromise will prevail and 'nuclear' armed vessels will use Northern English / Northern Irish ports and airfields. And the NATO ground forces will still be able to take skiing lessons in the Cairngorms.
Submarine Bases: Barrow in Furness is a no go - it's on the wrong side of the UK. My guess is that the MoD would use Northern Ireland it'll be easier to get planning permission than building a new base in the North West. :lol:
Blackpool Closure: We can only hope so for everyone's sake.
It's funny how giving 'independence' to countries of the old 'Empire' was never a problem and was positively 'encouraged' by UK Governments in the 40's, 50's and 60's. Even to the Irish back in 1916, yet Scotland seems to be this huge issue of irrelevant 'details'.
Either way they vote, there will be changes that have to be implemented either in 'devolved powers' or Independance, some will be good, some not so good.
The only thing that will remain constant is Death & Taxes. Death comes to us all regardless of where we reside, so my vote goes to paying less tax every time.
:thumbup:
Warming the Bed
Not sure division is a good thing for anyone. It creates more problems than it solves.
Whoever is in charge is likely to be a useless egotist whether they are Scottish, English or whatever nationality.
Whoever is in charge is likely to be a useless egotist whether they are Scottish, English or whatever nationality.
Quote by Fobs
The Independence vote is almost upon us.
But what happens if Scotland does become independent ? many things could change ......
The chances of them retaining the British Pound is certainly in question.
Their desire to open their borders to make immigration easier will not bode well with those in England who are looking to tighten our borders. Will we see a new "wall" dividing the two nations, will there be a need for customs and excise control points between the two nations.
Will Scottish Nationals living in England be required to surrender their UK passports and apply for a Scottish Passport ?
They would no longer be members of the EU, will they still have the right to live and work not only in the UK but will the millions of them living in other EU countries have to go home ?
They can of course apply to the EU for membership but all new member states have to adopt the Euro and any such application could be vetoed by the founding members, the UK being one of the founding states.
What of the armed forces, of course we would have to allow every Scottish National the right to leave the British Armed Forces if they so wish but polls so far indicate that the vast majority would wish to continue serving and that the Scottish Defence Force might struggle to recruit people to serve.
Will Scotland be a member of NATO, it is not automatic especially with their policy on not having nuclear weapons based in Scotland or owned by them.
Our Nuclear Submarine base at Faslane would be re-located of course, we have no choice in that matter, probably to Barrow in Furness where the nuclear submarines are built.
Will Blackpool face closure, the largest percentage of visitors there come from Scotland, if a visit there requires a visa or passport it could put them off coming.
There are so many questions, so many changes that could occur.
I believe they should stay with us, but I also believe that if they choose to leave the Union then independence should be total and we should treat them the same as we treat any other non EU, none United Kingdom nation.
Being 'Scots' and owning property both north and south of the border.
Currency: There's been a Scottish pound for as long as I can remember, so technically we already have our own currency. The question is more how to disentangle it from the English one. When currencies were based on the 'gold standard' it would have been easy the 'Bank of England' (one wonders why it's not the Bank of the United Kingdom - but that's another thread.
) they could just transfer the relevant number of gold bars to a central bank in Scotland. However, the proponents of the 'No' vote sold the gold at a loss and implemented 'Quantitative Easing' instead so it's just paper money now.Yes I agree Scotland will try to retain it's own currency but will be under pressure from the EU to change to the Euro if they want to become a member state,
Immigration: Yep, we should probably limit the number of English coming in! :lol:
and vice versa :lol:
Passports: Many people have dual nationality passports. Easy enough to issue a Scottish one to those who want one.
Dual passports could be a thing of the past they may become invalid but Yes I think a Scottish passport for an independent Scotland would be in their own interest.
EU: Scotland would probably follow the Swiss here and not join the 'EU' but retain the trading links via EFTA. Never been a problem for the Swiss. The Scots want the Euro even less than the English!
The best thing they could do, the Swiss seem to enjoy all the benefits of being in the EU without being in the EU and none of the negatives since they still get to make their own laws and rulings (I lived in Switzerland for 3 years and am so jealous of their standard of living and benefits of independence from the EU or anyone else.
The Armed Forces: They'll probably settle on a 'Defence Force' style and let personnel choose to either transfer or remain in the reducing British Forces organisation.
This is what the YES vote is saying a Defence Force in Scotland though many armed forces personnel are saying they wouldn't want to be in a defence force, no foreign travel, not getting to travel to new places, meet new people, see new cultures in those places and kill them
Again a comparison with the Swiss whose airforce has a maximum range of 2.5 minutes flying time before having to turn back or enter foreign airspace, at Geneva a wing could violate French airspace just by taking off :lol: their domestic flights use shared runways that are cross each others borders. Switzerland are also a good model upon which such a force would be made up, The Swiss decided long ago that they would never invade anyone so have only defence forces, no bombers no offensive ground capability etc, this works well for them since they only have to pay for defensive equipment and not defensive and offensive equipment as most other nations do. The last time their Armed Forces were deployed in Battle and overseas is when they were despatched as paid mercenaries (payment made to the Swiss Government) to Paris in order to quell the French Revolution, the only current foreign deployment they do is supplying the guards at the Vatican (these are highly trained special forces even if they do dress in nancy boy uniforms :winks:NATO: With the strategic position of Scotland, NATO would be loathed to loose the ability to use Scotlands bases and the usual art of compromise will prevail and 'nuclear' armed vessels will use Northern English / Northern Irish ports and airfields. And the NATO ground forces will still be able to take skiing lessons in the Cairngorms.
But will Scottish soldiers still travel to Switzerland and Norway for their Ski training ? every year the British Army trains basic infantry on the slopes of Verbier and for more intensive telemarking and cross country ski-ing they train in our base in Norway where the Mountain Artic Warfare Cadre branch of the Royal Marines are based.
Scientists believe that with global warming, snow in the Cairngorms is going to be a rare thing over the next 10 years.
Perhaps, England does have substantial sway with NATO decision making though it would be in our interest to have Scotland in NATO.
Submarine Bases: Barrow in Furness is a no go - it's on the wrong side of the UK. My guess is that the MoD would use Northern Ireland it'll be easier to get planning permission than building a new base in the North West. :lol:
Barrow in Furness is not ideal though it does have the land for development on Walney Island to build a suitable Submarine base larger than Faslane and the Nuclear Submarines are built there, it is not that badly located having easy access to the North and South Atlantic, a few miles here and there doesn't really affect a nuclear submarine. It is easily defended from submarine or surface threat I doubt the Government would invest Millions in bases in Northern Ireland as putting any form of British Military into the area would upset the pro-united Ireland supporters and possibly threaten the current peace arrangements, NI is also unstable for long term bases since one day it could return to being part of Ireland and not the UK, it would also be an easy target for terrorism not only from the Irish factor but from other terrorists assisted by dissident NI people.
Blackpool Closure: We can only hope so for everyone's sake.
I like Blackpool :lol: and so do hundreds of thousands of Scottish tourists :
:It's funny how giving 'independence' to countries of the old 'Empire' was never a problem and was positively 'encouraged' by UK Governments in the 40's, 50's and 60's. Even to the Irish back in 1916, yet Scotland seems to be this huge issue of irrelevant 'details'.
I don't think resistance to Scottish Independence is being fought against any more than it was with many other countries, I think we have fought harder to keep Malta, Gibralter the SBA in Cyprus, the Falkland Islands and other more strategic places, I want Scotland to stay part of the UK but think they should go if that is what the majority want.
Either way they vote, there will be changes that have to be implemented either in 'devolved powers' or Independance, some will be good, some not so good.
Agreed
The only thing that will remain constant is Death & Taxes. Death comes to us all regardless of where we reside, so my vote goes to paying less tax every time.
An Englishman with no property North or South of the border, but can recite Flower of Scotland unaided from memory :)
:thumbup:
Sex God
I have thought all along that the yes vote would win in all the polls but at the last minute people would switch to a no vote.
However after watching the televised debate I am inclined to believe it will be a yes vote followed by 5-7 years of legal and constitutional wrangling.
As for some of the other questions raised, well here is my twopence worth:
NATO. Scotland would have to apply to join, and until it did so (and met the criteria to join the alliance) NATO would not be obligated to protect it. However the UK would as Scotland would still be Sovereign soil, The current bases would probably be declared soveriegn base areas enabling the UK to deploy its forces in a 'foreign' country. In the unlikely event that someone were to threaten or invade Scotland the Uk would be obligated to support her, and an attack on the UK would activate the central tenement of the NATO alliance.
Submarines: The UK can base her subs in Devonport. It isnt the subs that are the problem, it the weapons.
Armed forces: Scottish servicemen would not be forced out of the UK forces. they ave all sworn an oath of allegiance to the Crown and the Crown would still be the constitutional monarch of the new indipendent Scotland. It is most likly they would be ofered a chance to transfer if they had the right skill sets and personal qualities/attributes for vacant slots. Most probably wouldn't transfer in my opinion.
Currency: Scotland will still use the £. Why wouldn't they? Personally I think a currency union would be a pointless thing. How can you have an independent country where your interest rate is set by someone else.
Oh, and for the record the Swiss have deployed members of their armed forces to Afghanistan and other UN missions in non conflict roles. They currently have troops in Ghana, Kosovo, Bosnia-Herzegovina, the Middle East and Korea carrying out peace support missions.
However after watching the televised debate I am inclined to believe it will be a yes vote followed by 5-7 years of legal and constitutional wrangling.
As for some of the other questions raised, well here is my twopence worth:
NATO. Scotland would have to apply to join, and until it did so (and met the criteria to join the alliance) NATO would not be obligated to protect it. However the UK would as Scotland would still be Sovereign soil, The current bases would probably be declared soveriegn base areas enabling the UK to deploy its forces in a 'foreign' country. In the unlikely event that someone were to threaten or invade Scotland the Uk would be obligated to support her, and an attack on the UK would activate the central tenement of the NATO alliance.
Submarines: The UK can base her subs in Devonport. It isnt the subs that are the problem, it the weapons.
Armed forces: Scottish servicemen would not be forced out of the UK forces. they ave all sworn an oath of allegiance to the Crown and the Crown would still be the constitutional monarch of the new indipendent Scotland. It is most likly they would be ofered a chance to transfer if they had the right skill sets and personal qualities/attributes for vacant slots. Most probably wouldn't transfer in my opinion.
Currency: Scotland will still use the £. Why wouldn't they? Personally I think a currency union would be a pointless thing. How can you have an independent country where your interest rate is set by someone else.
Oh, and for the record the Swiss have deployed members of their armed forces to Afghanistan and other UN missions in non conflict roles. They currently have troops in Ghana, Kosovo, Bosnia-Herzegovina, the Middle East and Korea carrying out peace support missions.
Sex God
my only questions would be:
if Scotland vote to leave the UK should a return vote be down to the English should they wish to rejoin
and would a Scottish player in an English football league be classed as a foreign player?
if Scotland vote to leave the UK should a return vote be down to the English should they wish to rejoin
and would a Scottish player in an English football league be classed as a foreign player?
Sex God
I'd bet money on one thing.
IF the Scots vote for independence and it all goes horribly wrong then it'll all be down to the horrible English in some way, nothing to do with the Scots who voted for it.
John
IF the Scots vote for independence and it all goes horribly wrong then it'll all be down to the horrible English in some way, nothing to do with the Scots who voted for it.
John
Given that one of the main reasons Scotland agreed to a political union with England was because they were bankrupt, can England ask for several hundred years' worth of interest be paid upon a Yes vote?
And has anyone pointed out that Scotland may have some oil reserves, but it won't last long if they keep deep frying all their food...?
And has anyone pointed out that Scotland may have some oil reserves, but it won't last long if they keep deep frying all their food...?
