Sex God
For what it is worth I stopped using google a while ago. It might have no effect whatsoever but then again it hit starbucks when people stopped using them in protest and makes me feel better.
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Google proud of tax evasion !
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Sex God
That's the thing Trev isn't it. Doesn't really hurt them switching search providers or browsers unless you're clicking on the ads they serve up as you're searching. That's their revenue stream. If you don't ever click ads you're no good to 'em financially anyways so hardly missed. Not that that's a comment on the moral choice though, obviously.
Bloke on't radio says there's no point in boycotting them (Search/ /YouTube etc) because Google are so heavily tied into almost everything else. Apparently almost any ad you see on the interweb could be passing revenue back to them.
I guess the best option would be to continue to use them, but stop using anyone who advertises through them. That might stand some chance of hitting their bottom line. ;)
Oh, and what's all this 'email for life' malarkey? I used to have $ky which meant I needed one of 'their' email accounts. Trouble is it was just a re-branded Google mail account which you can't cancel.... ever! :shock: Seems it's the same for Virgin Media mail too.
I guess the best option would be to continue to use them, but stop using anyone who advertises through them. That might stand some chance of hitting their bottom line. ;)
Oh, and what's all this 'email for life' malarkey? I used to have $ky which meant I needed one of 'their' email accounts. Trouble is it was just a re-branded Google mail account which you can't cancel.... ever! :shock: Seems it's the same for Virgin Media mail too.
I too am going to remove all google I am able to.
I don't know a lot about this subject but I do have a business site on the web and when I check where the "hits" are coming from google does pop up a lot in the search engines where people found my site.
Now what I do know is that if I was deciding where to spend a lot of money on my advertising, a search engine that was already giving me a lot of hits would be looked at favourably, I think this is the reason the and other e-mail facility providers are happy with people having multiple sites, because when they approach advertisers they can say "look we have xxx million users who use our service.
I may be wrong but I don't care, like my personal boycott of starbucks and Brazillian corned beef, it may not make any difference whatsoever it does make me feel a little better, I also think that taking no action and continuing to use such Companies is tantamount to supporting what they do.
I don't know a lot about this subject but I do have a business site on the web and when I check where the "hits" are coming from google does pop up a lot in the search engines where people found my site.
Now what I do know is that if I was deciding where to spend a lot of money on my advertising, a search engine that was already giving me a lot of hits would be looked at favourably, I think this is the reason the and other e-mail facility providers are happy with people having multiple sites, because when they approach advertisers they can say "look we have xxx million users who use our service.
I may be wrong but I don't care, like my personal boycott of starbucks and Brazillian corned beef, it may not make any difference whatsoever it does make me feel a little better, I also think that taking no action and continuing to use such Companies is tantamount to supporting what they do.
Good for Google that they can get away with it. The ones moaning about it would do exactly the same given the chance, which they will not so resort to boycotting them? That is really going to hurt them.
To think that boycotting them makes an ounce of sense is a strange stance to take, but hey if it makes people feel better then good on them, but those people if they could get away with not paying their taxes, they would not give a hoot if they could.
I will not be boycotting any of them to be honest, instead of doing that why not boycott your local bank as it is them that have between them, put this country straight down the toilet, not the likes of Starbucks who in comparison has avoided peanuts in comparison to the greedy banks.
To think that boycotting them makes an ounce of sense is a strange stance to take, but hey if it makes people feel better then good on them, but those people if they could get away with not paying their taxes, they would not give a hoot if they could.
I will not be boycotting any of them to be honest, instead of doing that why not boycott your local bank as it is them that have between them, put this country straight down the toilet, not the likes of Starbucks who in comparison has avoided peanuts in comparison to the greedy banks.
Sex God
You are absolutely right Star. How many millions of people use google everyday in one form or another? I have no idea, but it will be in the millions in this country alone. Will they notice anything if I don't use them, well probably not.
I've lodged my protest, maybe in the new year I'll use it again, maybe not. I have no idea what I will do. The search engine I'm using now is just as good. As was pointed out earlier google is tied into so many things it would be hard not to use some branch of its company anyway.
Maybe they won't care or even notice I have stopped using them; But in the same vein, will I notice not using them?
I've lodged my protest, maybe in the new year I'll use it again, maybe not. I have no idea what I will do. The search engine I'm using now is just as good. As was pointed out earlier google is tied into so many things it would be hard not to use some branch of its company anyway.
Maybe they won't care or even notice I have stopped using them; But in the same vein, will I notice not using them?
Sex God
There is a simple solution to all this tax avoidance ....
1: Do an internet search (not google obviously) find the office of your chosen company
2: Travel to said office
3: Take bottle
3: Fill bottle with petrol
4: stuff rag into neck of bottle
5: Light rag
6: throw into reception
7: repeat steps 1 to 6 until desired effect is achieved
These steps are most effective when acompanied by a large angry mob
1: Do an internet search (not google obviously) find the office of your chosen company
2: Travel to said office
3: Take bottle
3: Fill bottle with petrol
4: stuff rag into neck of bottle
5: Light rag
6: throw into reception
7: repeat steps 1 to 6 until desired effect is achieved
These steps are most effective when acompanied by a large angry mob
Quote by Staggerlee_BB
There is a simple solution to all this tax avoidance ....
1: Do an internet search (not google obviously) find the office of your chosen company
2: Travel to said office
3: Take bottle
3: Fill bottle with petrol
4: stuff rag into neck of bottle
5: Light rag
6: throw into reception
7: repeat steps 1 to 6 until desired effect is achieved
These steps are most effective when acompanied by a large angry mob
What with CCTV now in operation Staggers? Well you can lead the line. Me? I shall stay nicely tucked up in my bed, as anarchy was and is not my cup of tea as you cannot be an anarchist without a baying mob behind you backing you up.
Sex God
Quote by starlightcouple
Good for Google that they can get away with it. The ones moaning about it would do exactly the same given the chance, which they will not so resort to boycotting them? That is really going to hurt them.
To think that boycotting them makes an ounce of sense is a strange stance to take, but hey if it makes people feel better then good on them, but those people if they could get away with not paying their taxes, they would not give a hoot if they could.
I will not be boycotting any of them to be honest, instead of doing that why not boycott your local bank as it is them that have between them, put this country straight down the toilet, not the likes of Starbucks who in comparison has avoided peanuts in comparison to the greedy banks.
Spot on star, to my knowledge they have not even broken any laws
Sex God
Quote by Staggerlee_BB
There is a simple solution to all this tax avoidance ....
1: Do an internet search (not google obviously) find the office of your chosen company
2: Travel to said office
3: Take bottle
3: Fill bottle with petrol
4: stuff rag into neck of bottle
5: Light rag
6: throw into reception
7: repeat steps 1 to 6 until desired effect is achieved
These steps are most effective when acompanied by a large angry mob
Is this from the Aurther Scargill book of poems
Sex God
Quote by Bluefish2009
Good for Google that they can get away with it. The ones moaning about it would do exactly the same given the chance, which they will not so resort to boycotting them? That is really going to hurt them.
To think that boycotting them makes an ounce of sense is a strange stance to take, but hey if it makes people feel better then good on them, but those people if they could get away with not paying their taxes, they would not give a hoot if they could.
I will not be boycotting any of them to be honest, instead of doing that why not boycott your local bank as it is them that have between them, put this country straight down the toilet, not the likes of Starbucks who in comparison has avoided peanuts in comparison to the greedy banks.
Spot on star, to my knowledge they have not even broken any laws
Of course, but then legal / illegal doesn't always directly equate to moral / morally wrong does it, and clearly the kind of tax avoidance we're seeing with these companies who take advantage of tax-payer funded infrastructure and services we've helped put in place that enables them to do business in this country in the first place while making next to no contribution back syphoning funds out of the country is morally wrong on every level. People talk about dole scum sponging off tax-payers but companies like this take sponging to whole new levels of obscenity.
Sex God
Quote by neilinleeds
Good for Google that they can get away with it. The ones moaning about it would do exactly the same given the chance, which they will not so resort to boycotting them? That is really going to hurt them.
To think that boycotting them makes an ounce of sense is a strange stance to take, but hey if it makes people feel better then good on them, but those people if they could get away with not paying their taxes, they would not give a hoot if they could.
I will not be boycotting any of them to be honest, instead of doing that why not boycott your local bank as it is them that have between them, put this country straight down the toilet, not the likes of Starbucks who in comparison has avoided peanuts in comparison to the greedy banks.
Spot on star, to my knowledge they have not even broken any laws
Of course, but then legal / illegal doesn't always directly equate to moral / morally wrong does it, and clearly the kind of tax avoidance we're seeing with these companies who take advantage of tax-payer funded infrastructure and services we've helped put in place that enables them to do business in this country in the first place while making next to no contribution back syphoning funds out of the country is morally wrong on every level. People talk about dole scum sponging off tax-payers but companies like this take sponging to whole new levels of obscenity.
If people are able to sponge of the state, as you suggest, that fault lies with the laws/rules that allow them to do so, The government.
Just the same with big business, and tax avoidance, change the rule/laws that allow such things
I do not see the blame falling at the feet of those who use current laws/rules to there advantage
Sex God
Quote by Bluefish2009
There is a simple solution to all this tax avoidance ....
1: Do an internet search (not google obviously) find the office of your chosen company
2: Travel to said office
3: Take bottle
3: Fill bottle with petrol
4: stuff rag into neck of bottle
5: Light rag
6: throw into reception
7: repeat steps 1 to 6 until desired effect is achieved
These steps are most effective when acompanied by a large angry mob
Is this from the Aurther Scargill book of poems
Nothing to do with Mr S ..... just the application of logic and reason
Legal ..... few of the many tax dodging companies have been prosecuted, this doesn't mean they have not broken any laws ; the Vodaphone debacle is a case in point, they had broken the law,many in H.M.R.C. were pushing for and confident of a successful prosecution the then head of revenue etc, David Hartnett came to a highly dubious settlement with them (undoubtedly under pressure from H.M.G.) .... have no doubt the corporate world is populated by ILLEGAL tax dodgers
There is only one solution to the moral bankrupcy and greed of these people and that is direct action, no government that we can elect will change anything beause they are the government
Sooooo..........
1: take action
or
2; sit on your arse and watch your schools your hospitals your services become the sole preserve of the wealthy and privileged
Sex God
This is all getting ridiculous.
Any and every Company as well as any and every individual will do everything they can to mitigate tax exposure because it is dead, fixed cost. The more complex your affairs, the more you need a good Accountant but the principle remains the same. Minimise tax exposure within the laws of the jurisdiction that you operate.
As I understand all of these Companies are operating within UK and European legal and tax frameworks.
The real joke is comparing UK Companies who pay much more Corporation Tax. Of course they do, because Directors taking Dividends is a 21% tax take as opposed to 40% if it is taken as salary.
I would be interested to know if the good citizens who are so up in arms at this outrage also consider that Directors of UK Companies who take a nominal salary and then take dividends instead of a large salary are also tax dodgers? At least the Company is paying Corporation Tax!
Any and every Company as well as any and every individual will do everything they can to mitigate tax exposure because it is dead, fixed cost. The more complex your affairs, the more you need a good Accountant but the principle remains the same. Minimise tax exposure within the laws of the jurisdiction that you operate.
As I understand all of these Companies are operating within UK and European legal and tax frameworks.
The real joke is comparing UK Companies who pay much more Corporation Tax. Of course they do, because Directors taking Dividends is a 21% tax take as opposed to 40% if it is taken as salary.
I would be interested to know if the good citizens who are so up in arms at this outrage also consider that Directors of UK Companies who take a nominal salary and then take dividends instead of a large salary are also tax dodgers? At least the Company is paying Corporation Tax!
Would it be an illogical suggestion to say these massive companies employ a ton of people to run their businesses yes?
Well when they pay their employees the companies HAVE to pay employers National Insurance costs on each employee. Has anyone any idea how much this is? Well what I do know is not exact figures but for these companies it runs into millions if not billions of pounds per year. Without companies like these, how many more people would be out of work? Is that an excuse? No simple and very easy to understand mathematics.
Any one here who think their morals stink, don't pass judgements on others when you would do exactly the same in their positions. A clever accountant can save individuals thousands a year, so a great accountant can save a company like Google for example, millions if not billions.
The moaners are only moaning as they are forced by the laws around PAYE to pay their taxes at source, but given a nano of a chance to avoid paying it and they would not accept they had no morals, there would always be other excuses. Get over it people.
Well when they pay their employees the companies HAVE to pay employers National Insurance costs on each employee. Has anyone any idea how much this is? Well what I do know is not exact figures but for these companies it runs into millions if not billions of pounds per year. Without companies like these, how many more people would be out of work? Is that an excuse? No simple and very easy to understand mathematics.
Any one here who think their morals stink, don't pass judgements on others when you would do exactly the same in their positions. A clever accountant can save individuals thousands a year, so a great accountant can save a company like Google for example, millions if not billions.
The moaners are only moaning as they are forced by the laws around PAYE to pay their taxes at source, but given a nano of a chance to avoid paying it and they would not accept they had no morals, there would always be other excuses. Get over it people.
Sex God
BB is a VERY good accountant I do not let her look at my wages or any savings that could be made .... I am a great believer in collective responsibility... you DO NOT under any circumstances short change your fellow man
Sex God
Quote by Too Hot
This is all getting ridiculous.
Any and every Company as well as any and every individual will do everything they can to mitigate tax exposure because it is dead, fixed cost. The more complex your affairs, the more you need a good Accountant but the principle remains the same. Minimise tax exposure within the laws of the jurisdiction that you operate.
As I understand all of these Companies are operating within UK and European legal and tax frameworks.
The real joke is comparing UK Companies who pay much more Corporation Tax. Of course they do, because Directors taking Dividends is a 21% tax take as opposed to 40% if it is taken as salary.
I would be interested to know if the good citizens who are so up in arms at this outrage also consider that Directors of UK Companies who take a nominal salary and then take dividends instead of a large salary are also tax dodgers? At least the Company is paying Corporation Tax!
You start with fallacious assumptions and extrapolate from them incorrect conclusions
Any and every company and individual ?? Not me for one
The more complex your affairs ?? most of these companies affairs are complicated BY accountants for the purpose of making their tax position more obscure ... you appear to have the cart and horse in the wrong positions
The real joke ?? the real joke is that people make excuses for companies, be they UK based or otherwise, deliberately avoiding their responsibilities to their customers .... and have no doubt paying tax is one of them
You would be interested ?? working on the assumption that the company is paying 21% on a figure that I assume the director would be paying 40% on then fuck yes tax is being avoided and that is wrong, simple black and white no grey areas no moral doubt dead wrong ... see in the long run it's killing babies, I mean Jimmy Saville is being hung drawn and quartered for molesting them; what's going to happen when the local maternity ward can't afford that new incubator or operating theatre or fucking electric at least he was helping pay for those
Sex God
Quote by Staggerlee_BB
BB is a VERY good accountant I do not let her look at my wages or any savings that could be made .... I am a great believer in collective responsibility... you DO NOT under any circumstances short change your fellow man
or become an unnecessary burden upon him
Sex God
Quote by Lizaleanrob
BB is a VERY good accountant I do not let her look at my wages or any savings that could be made .... I am a great believer in collective responsibility... you DO NOT under any circumstances short change your fellow man
or become an unnecessary burden upon him
Oh go on Rob you'll have to explain that
Just realised what you mean ... yes you're company director who avoids every tax he/she can then sends thier kids to state schools and moans constantly about the quality of the education they recieve, or recieves expesive treatment at an N.H.S. hospital followed by equally expesive aftercare and drugs at a knock down price then moans about underfunding and the decline in hospital standards is indeed a fucking burden on thier fellow man and doesn't deserve a second of our concern, hang 'em high on the line and leave them out to dry I say ..... Glad you agree
Sex God
Quote by Staggerlee_BB
BB is a VERY good accountant I do not let her look at my wages or any savings that could be made .... I am a great believer in collective responsibility... you DO NOT under any circumstances short change your fellow man
or become an unnecessary burden upon him
Oh go on Rob you'll have to explain that
Oooo how cynical you are
Sex God
Sorry Rob we crossed in edit ... I answered it :twisted:
Sex God
Of course Star they contribute through wages to treasury and to local economies in spending power. That's their major net contribution to the economy, yes. Noone argues with that. Just when you look at what kind of employment practices these companies demonstrate driving down costs and weakening bargaining power they pay the barest minimum they can get away with, often requiring the tax-payer support their piss-poor wages directly with state funds we all pay into as our safety net to even make working for them even remotely viable for them in the first place. We can't afford the safety net anymore, it has to go to keep these companies going here cos they fucked us all right up the arse they did. They are parasites. Simple as. By any definition of the word they are parasites on this nation's wealth and very lifeblood and we sit and watch them do it and do nothing? Madness. Absolute madness.
Attributed to Einstein, I think incorrectly : insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result.
Attributed to Einstein, I think incorrectly : insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result.
Quote by neilinleeds
Of course Star they contribute through wages to treasury and to local economies in spending power. That's their major net contribution to the economy, yes. Noone argues with that. Just when you look at what kind of employment practices these companies demonstrate driving down costs and weakening bargaining power they pay the barest minimum they can get away with, often requiring the tax-payer support their piss-poor wages directly with state funds we all pay into as our safety net to even make working for them even remotely viable for them in the first place. We can't afford the safety net anymore, it has to go to keep these companies going here cos they fucked us all right up the arse they did. They are parasites. Simple as. By any definition of the word they are parasites on this nation's wealth and very lifeblood and we sit and watch them do it and do nothing? Madness. Absolute madness.
Attributed to Einstein, I think incorrectly : insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result.
I understand all of that Neil, but there is just one very simple question without all the other rubbish surrounding things from Staggers.... Have any of these companies broken any laws from HMRC?
Now from where I am sitting they have not broken a single law. Forget about morals as many people would say purely being on a swingers site lacks morals ( I do not agree with that btw ) but many would. So forgetting about those morals, have they broken any law at all, criminal or otherwise Neil?
If they have not then everyone should get off their case, and draw their attentions to a Government that should change the laws, it really is as simple as that.
Sex God
Quote by Staggerlee_BB
You start with fallacious assumptions and extrapolate from them incorrect conclusions
Any and every company and individual ?? Not me for one
Good for you - Honest John ...
Quote by Staggerlee_BB
The more complex your affairs ?? most of these companies affairs are complicated BY accountants for the purpose of making their tax position more obscure ... you appear to have the cart and horse in the wrong positions
Not at all, UK and European Law is clear. This is why HMRC feels that a public humiliation campaign might shame them into coughing up a few million because they have accounted accurately and within the law and HMRC can't touch them.
Quote by Staggerlee_BB
The real joke ?? the real joke is that people make excuses for companies, be they UK based or otherwise, deliberately avoiding their responsibilities to their customers .... and have no doubt paying tax is one of them
You would be interested ?? working on the assumption that the company is paying 21% on a figure that I assume the director would be paying 40% on then fuck yes tax is being avoided and that is wrong, simple black and white no grey areas no moral doubt dead wrong ... see in the long run it's killing babies, I mean Jimmy Saville is being hung drawn and quartered for molesting them; what's going to happen when the local maternity ward can't afford that new incubator or operating theatre or fucking electric at least he was helping pay for those
If you honestly don't realise that the reason UK Limited Companies pay such high Corporation Tax then your posts about this subject are not really qualified. It is absolutely lawful for Director Shareholders to take dividends and most do. Company Directors and Shareholders take great risk to create wealth, jobs and opportunity and you just want to pin them down and run through their pockets AFTER they have accounted lawfully for their successful activities. Why would anyone pay 40% tax when the law enables you to about pay half that and no NI contributions by taking a dividend or none at all by taking a loan (though that is under scrutiny a bit more these days).
It is good accounting practice to mitigate tax responsibilities and any Company Director failing in that respect would have some pretty angry shareholders to deal with.
Sex God
Quote by Too Hot
The more complex your affairs ?? most of these companies affairs are complicated BY accountants for the purpose of making their tax position more obscure ... you appear to have the cart and horse in the wrong positions
Not at all, UK and European Law is clear. This is why HMRC feels that a public humiliation campaign might shame them into coughing up a few million because they have accounted accurately and within the law and HMRC can't touch them.
I don't question or deny the accuracy of their accountancy merely the need for quite so much of it
Quote by Too Hot
The real joke ?? the real joke is that people make excuses for companies, be they UK based or otherwise, deliberately avoiding their responsibilities to their customers .... and have no doubt paying tax is one of them
You would be interested ?? working on the assumption that the company is paying 21% on a figure that I assume the director would be paying 40% on then fuck yes tax is being avoided and that is wrong, simple black and white no grey areas no moral doubt dead wrong ... see in the long run it's killing babies, I mean Jimmy Saville is being hung drawn and quartered for molesting them; what's going to happen when the local maternity ward can't afford that new incubator or operating theatre or fucking electric at least he was helping pay for those
If you honestly don't realise that the reason UK Limited Companies pay such high Corporation Tax then your posts about this subject are not really qualified. It is absolutely lawful for Director Shareholders to take dividends and most do. Company Directors and Shareholders take great risk to create wealth, jobs and opportunity and you just want to pin them down and run through their pockets AFTER they have accounted lawfully for their successful activities.
It is good accounting practice to mitigate tax responsibilities and any Company Director failing in that respect would have some pretty angry shareholders to deal with.
Really ?? sooo high
not that high surely seems there are one or several higher. And a couple of those are it would seem our economic role models.
My posts I would suggest are just as qualified as other members whose credentials you don't question.
It is as you say absolutely legal for company directors to shift their tax liability from personal to corporate by taking dividends in lieu of wages, but, and lets be clear about this ,the losers in this particular piece of prestidigitation are all the other tax payers of the country … all that stuff our taxes buy still has to be bought,where does the money come from ???? who pays in the end ??
It is a very short sighted hard of thinking man who thinks that their companies interests are best served by impoverishing their customers
Sex God
Quote by Staggerlee_BB
My posts I would suggest are just as qualified as other members whose credentials you don't question.
It is as you say absolutely legal for company directors to shift their tax liability from personal to corporate by taking dividends in lieu of wages, but, and lets be clear about this ,the losers in this particular piece of prestidigitation are all the other tax payers of the country … all that stuff our taxes buy still has to be bought,where does the money come from ???? who pays in the end ??
It is a very short sighted hard of thinking man who thinks that their companies interests are best served by impoverishing their customers
Well, it was you who said:
Quote by Staggerlee_BB
You start with fallacious assumptions and extrapolate from them incorrect conclusions
You have an opinion that all of the other losers are other tax payers but perhaps the UK Government and HMRC do not see it that way.
There is an insideous creep towards the demonisation of wealth in the United Kingdom where wealth of any description is becoming frowned upon by those whose motivating force appears to be envy. Perhaps you could suggest a way that Directors and Shareholders could take benefit from their willingness to invest personal funds in an effort to create jobs, wealth and employment?
It is an absolute fact of economics that high corporation and company taxes stifles growth and does nothing to incentivise economic investment. No investment = no employment.
My personal opinion is that Corporation tax is State punishment for risking personal funds, taking great risks and creating employment in the country.
Bottom line is that we can't have it all ways unless we fancy pulling out of Europe, abandoning trade agreements and treaties and doing a North Korea by establishing total isolationism. We might lose the brightest, wealthiest and most talented in our society as a result but at least all those who are left will be equal.
Sex God
Quote by flower411
My intention when starting this thread was to comment on the fact that the executive chairman takes pride in his companies tax avoidance !
I`m a capitalist through and through but I do not subscribe to the idea that capitalism excludes social responsibilty ..
Tax avoidance may be a fact of life ...it might be the case that "everybody would do it given the chance" but that isn`t to say that those that do it shouold not be philanthropic !
In the current climate where the average tax payer and people receiving benefits are being screwed for every penny it seemed a unpleasant to me that there was a sense of pride expressed in tax avoidance !
It shows an arrogance that needs to be addressed ...... it does seem a little odd for a company to take pride in impoverishing it`s customers .
They may be happy to see their customers in poverty but I`d suggest that richer customers would be a better aim ...... weird idea, I know !!
But how can you pay tax that is not due?? And what are you supposed to do? Offer ex gratia payments? Starbucks did that and I bet they won't be offering to do it to again in a hurry after their coffee shops were occupied as a result.
The government sets the tax laws and we just have to accept them. We can ask the government to change the law to get companies paying more tax but you really need to be aware of the law of unintended consequences when taking such action.
There really is not a model to submit your accounts and then pay tax that is not lawfully due and in this country HMRC will refund overpaid tax.
Quote by flower411
I`m certainly getting out of my depth here but aren`t there rules about running non viable limited companies ?
And isn`t that exactly what Starbucks are claiming to run ?
Is there a difference between a non viable company and one that makes profits in other countries !!!
Confused here !
Only if they trade while insolvent.
