Quote by Staggerlee_BB
And all these evicted benefits claimants are going to do what ????
go live in somalia
Sex God
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Government e-petitions
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Government e-petitions, good thing, bad thing or waste
go live in somalia
Quote by Ben_Minx
"
At Highbury (Magistrates court), only a minority had no record. Many seemed to be career criminals. Most were teenagers or in their twenties, but a surprising number were older. Most interestingly of all, they were predominantly white, and many had jobs. "
Which just goes to prove the point that it little to do with Benefits and everything to do with just plain lawlessness.
As for prejudice and stigma associated with Benefits in the UK, no-one denies a rightful claimant to State assistance. That's what the system is for. In my view, (and this is where Ben and I are at variance with each other I think) taking people off Incapacity Benefit when they are clearly able to work moving them to the Job Seekers Allowance if they are unable to find work is the right thing to do. But when people steal from the State by disclosing a disability they do not have in order to avoid the more stringent 'tests' of the unemployment benefit system in whatever form, they are no better than the morons who stole from ordinary hard working people in communities up and down the land. If that can be 'associated' with stigma, then so be it. There is quite rightly a stigma associated with thieving off your fellow citizens. You are a thief and deserve to suffer the full weight of the justice system.
The existence of prejudice is only in the minds of those with an unhealthy closeness to cheating or attempting to beat the system, It is not in the minds of those funding an affordable Benefits system fit for purpose.
Sex God
Quote by GnV
"
At Highbury (Magistrates court), only a minority had no record. Many seemed to be career criminals. Most were teenagers or in their twenties, but a surprising number were older. Most interestingly of all, they were predominantly white, and many had jobs. "
Which just goes to prove the point that it little to do with Benefits and everything to do with just plain lawlessness.
As for prejudice and stigma associated with Benefits in the UK, no-one denies a rightful claimant to State assistance. That's what the system is for. In my view, (and this is where Ben and I are at variance with each other I think) taking people off Incapacity Benefit when they are clearly able to work moving them to the Job Seekers Allowance if they are unable to find work is the right thing to do. But when people steal from the State by disclosing a disability they do not have in order to avoid the more stringent 'tests' of the unemployment benefit system in whatever form, they are no better than the morons who stole from ordinary hard working people in communities up and down the land. If that can be 'associated' with stigma, then so be it. There is quite rightly a stigma associated with thieving off your fellow citizens. You are a thief and deserve to suffer the full weight of the justice system.
The existence of prejudice is only in the minds of those with an unhealthy closeness to cheating or attempting to beat the system, It is not in the minds of those funding an affordable Benefits system fit for purpose.
I think you'll find G that the only people who have been claiming it was about benefits are the less salubrious parts of the media and certain parties on here who agree with them .... any point I've made is about the degradation of lifestyles and the opinion of the working classes (not I hasten to add the working classes opinions but of those viewing them fron afar)
As for "There is quite rightly a stigma associated with thieving off your fellow citizens." I would still maintain that on the whole this is only true if you steal small amounts ... nick a couple of million by tax dodging or claiming that your rail company NEEDS those subsidies whilst taking several millions in dividends and you're a fucking hero .... go figure ????
Quote by Staggerlee_BB
As for "There is quite rightly a stigma associated with thieving off your fellow citizens." I would still maintain that on the whole this is only true if you steal small amounts ... nick a couple of million by tax dodging or claiming that your rail company NEEDS those subsidies whilst taking several millions in dividends and you're a fucking hero .... go figure ????
Well, yes Staggs.
If you're going to do it, then do it well. Don't pussy-foot about down the low range of the tariff, make it worth your while :lol2:
Sex God
Quote by GnV
As for "There is quite rightly a stigma associated with thieving off your fellow citizens." I would still maintain that on the whole this is only true if you steal small amounts ... nick a couple of million by tax dodging or claiming that your rail company NEEDS those subsidies whilst taking several millions in dividends and you're a fucking hero .... go figure ????
Well, yes Staggs.
If you're going to do it, then do it well. Don't pussy-foot about down the low range of the tariff, make it worth your while :lol2:
when a group take over a plane g and make demands its called ......................??
Sex God
Quote by Staggerlee_BB
All prisoners should work 8 hours a day for 5 and a half days a week. They should not be paid for it - they are repaying their debt to society. They get enormous benefit from working - from new skills to keeping too busy to start a ruck. The work should be challenging, physically hard if possible and useful. That is not slavery - that is reasonable exchange for their bed and board.
No Foxy I think you'll find it is slavery ..... it would also put thousands of honest hard working people on the dole
1) You would prefer the poor, disadvantaged little darlings to be sat on their backsides playing X-box?
2) Not at all - get them doing the stuff that isn't being done now - like mowing street verges, repainting street name signs that are all rusty, keeping public parks in trim and clean, basic maintenance in our schools, - the list could go on. This work has almost stopped being done to save money. Since no-one is doing it now, there can't be any jobs lost.
Sex God
Quote by foxylady2209
All prisoners should work 8 hours a day for 5 and a half days a week. They should not be paid for it - they are repaying their debt to society. They get enormous benefit from working - from new skills to keeping too busy to start a ruck. The work should be challenging, physically hard if possible and useful. That is not slavery - that is reasonable exchange for their bed and board.
No Foxy I think you'll find it is slavery ..... it would also put thousands of honest hard working people on the dole
1) You would prefer the poor, disadvantaged little darlings to be sat on their backsides playing X-box?
2) Not at all - get them doing the stuff that isn't being done now - like mowing street verges, repainting street name signs that are all rusty, keeping public parks in trim and clean, basic maintenance in our schools, - the list could go on. This work has almost stopped being done to save money. Since no-one is doing it now, there can't be any jobs lost.
So there's money somewhere to fund the staff that would be required to supervise all this extra gaol activity but not to pay someone to do it ???
B.T.W.
Street verges ... done just last week
Street name signs ... no rusty ones round here
public parks .... nice one in good nick just up the road .... litter free (on the whole) well planted ,rare breeds centre ,in fact more facilities than I care to mention
Schools .... 2 brand new ones within a couple of miles
Playing x-box ?? .... no I'd make them study and make it a prerequisite of release that they achieve a recognised standard in maths and english.
Sex God
Quote by Staggerlee_BB
All prisoners should work 8 hours a day for 5 and a half days a week. They should not be paid for it - they are repaying their debt to society. They get enormous benefit from working - from new skills to keeping too busy to start a ruck. The work should be challenging, physically hard if possible and useful. That is not slavery - that is reasonable exchange for their bed and board.
No Foxy I think you'll find it is slavery ..... it would also put thousands of honest hard working people on the dole
1) You would prefer the poor, disadvantaged little darlings to be sat on their backsides playing X-box?
2) Not at all - get them doing the stuff that isn't being done now - like mowing street verges, repainting street name signs that are all rusty, keeping public parks in trim and clean, basic maintenance in our schools, - the list could go on. This work has almost stopped being done to save money. Since no-one is doing it now, there can't be any jobs lost.
So there's money somewhere to fund the staff that would be required to supervise all this extra gaol activity but not to pay someone to do it ???
B.T.W.
Street verges ... done just last week
Street name signs ... no rusty ones round here
public parks .... nice one in good nick just up the road .... litter free (on the whole) well planted ,rare breeds centre ,in fact more facilities than I care to mention
Schools .... 2 brand new ones within a couple of miles
Playing x-box ?? .... no I'd make them study and make it a prerequisite of release that they achieve a recognised standard in maths and english.
what makes you think that they do not already have a recognised standard of maths and english ?????
or are you stereotyping tut tut
Sex God
Quote by Lizaleanrob
what makes you think that they do not already have a recognised standard of maths and english ?????
or are you stereotyping tut tut
I think you need to re-read my post Rob ..... it says they should, not that they haven't
I'll assume ,given that this is your response, that you have nothing to add
Sex God
Quote by Staggerlee_BB
what makes you think that they do not already have a recognised standard of maths and english ?????
or are you stereotyping tut tut
I think you need to re-read my post Rob ..... it says they should, not that they haven't
I'll assume ,given that this is your response, that you have nothing to add
ok so whos going to tutor them will that not have to payed for
and those that do already have a good standard of maths and english....... what of them ??
Sex God
Quote by Lizaleanrob
what makes you think that they do not already have a recognised standard of maths and english ?????
or are you stereotyping tut tut
I think you need to re-read my post Rob ..... it says they should, not that they haven't
I'll assume ,given that this is your response, that you have nothing to add
ok so whos going to tutor them will that not have to payed for
and those that do already have a good standard of maths and english....... what of them ??
There are other things to study than maths and English... Tutors ?? train some teachers .. I have no objection to paying for it with taxes after all it would be money better spent than would be spent on any of the other options to be found above
The thing is, if you just want retribution why waste time with gaol or community service ... beat them cut their hands off or behead them ..... I think the only effective way to prevent a criminal from re-offending (if that is your aim) is to give them other options,there is a far lower incidence of re-offending in systems that rehabilitate than those than punish .... just for once it might be an idea for us to do something that has been proven to work .... as I said elsewhere reasoned rational action rather than knee jerk reaction .... about time we elected ourselves some people who recognise the value of thought
Quote by Lizaleanrob
ok so whos going to tutor them will that not have to payed for
well they are currently apparently being taught by peeple with little more than a a level rob
there are other links but this one was top of the list.
scary that children are being taught by teechers who do not have any degrees at all.
Sex God
Quote by starlightcouple
ok so whos going to tutor them will that not have to payed for
well they are currently apparently being taught by peeple with little more than a a level rob
there are other links but this one was top of the list.
scary that children are being taught by teechers who do not have any degrees at all.
Really? my niece HAD to have degree to become a maths teacher she also had to have a teaching qualification .... as she wanted to teach A level she took her masters
Now these thousands of teachers ... Primary school teachers ?? I reckon most people here given training could teach children the basics in many subjects ... I suspect you (if you have any) taught your kids a few things yourself
N.B. this post is in no way meant to disparage the talents and dedication of teachers of any age group
I really should read the links before I post .... in edit: the mail talks shite
Sex God
Why is enforced study OK and enforced work is not?
Sex God
Quote by foxylady2209
Why is enforced study OK and enforced work is not?
Because education is useful and may even bring some to realise that their action were wrong .... knowing how to break rocks rarely does
And I doubt you really really needed me to answer that
Sex God
Quote by Staggerlee_BB
Why is enforced study OK and enforced work is not?
Because education is useful and may even bring some to realise that their action were wrong .... knowing how to break rocks rarely does
And I doubt you really really needed me to answer that
To repeat myself - They get enormous benefit from working - from new skills to keeping too busy to start a ruck. The work should be challenging, physically hard if possible and useful.
I never suggested mindless, back-breaking work from the Victorian days. I WOULD never suggest it. A hard, useful job is NOT less beneficial than training - in fact for many it would be a real education.
Maybe you should go to prison - you appear to need to learn to read.
Sex God
Quote by foxylady2209
Why is enforced study OK and enforced work is not?
Because education is useful and may even bring some to realise that their action were wrong .... knowing how to break rocks rarely does
And I doubt you really really needed me to answer that
To repeat myself - They get enormous benefit from working - from new skills to keeping too busy to start a ruck. The work should be challenging, physically hard if possible and useful.
I never suggested mindless, back-breaking work from the Victorian days. I WOULD never suggest it. A hard, useful job is NOT less beneficial than training - in fact for many it would be a real education.
Maybe you should go to prison - you appear to need to learn to read.
Foxy I read and understood your post .... I believe however that any useful work is better done by someone who needs and wants a job I believe that if as you say a prisoner would benefit from it someone who WANTS the job would benefit even all probability the work prisoners would be (and are elsewhere) given would be meaningless repetitive and ultimately useless in the wider world ... I believe I've intimated as much in my earlier posts ... it's not that I don't understand, but, that I don't agree
Sex God
Quote by starlightcouple
is this a bit more better mr staggers?
i will bare in mind next time not to post any thing from that daily mail as a referance. :notes:
As an aside ... and this link mentions it .... what on earth qualifies Carol Vorrderman to comment on teaching and how much fat tory cock did she have to suck to get that paycheck
Sex God
as someone (I don't remember who) once said ..... oh dear
Sex God
a resigned shake of the head maybe
Orgasminator
Quote by Staggerlee_BB
As an aside ... and this link mentions it .... what on earth qualifies Carol Vorrderman to comment on teaching
Indeed!
They have gone for the glamour and press contacts Carol has on this one. Vorderman is pure TV bullshit, group of us went to watch countdown being filmed when I was at Uni in Leeds (might have smoked something funny - seemed like a good idea at the time
).When Carol failed to get the answer to the numbers game she asked the audience if anyone had solved it, a maths undergrad I was with had pissed it and told her how she got it. Queue floor manager talking to carol, cameras are reset and its filmed as if Vorderman got the answer straight away!!
Quote by Lizaleanrob
As for "There is quite rightly a stigma associated with thieving off your fellow citizens." I would still maintain that on the whole this is only true if you steal small amounts ... nick a couple of million by tax dodging or claiming that your rail company NEEDS those subsidies whilst taking several millions in dividends and you're a fucking hero .... go figure ????
Well, yes Staggs.
If you're going to do it, then do it well. Don't pussy-foot about down the low range of the tariff, make it worth your while :lol2:
when a group take over a plane g and make demands its called ......................??
ops:Sorry!
Sex God
Quote by GnV
As for "There is quite rightly a stigma associated with thieving off your fellow citizens." I would still maintain that on the whole this is only true if you steal small amounts ... nick a couple of million by tax dodging or claiming that your rail company NEEDS those subsidies whilst taking several millions in dividends and you're a fucking hero .... go figure ????
Well, yes Staggs.
If you're going to do it, then do it well. Don't pussy-foot about down the low range of the tariff, make it worth your while :lol2:
when a group take over a plane g and make demands its called ......................??
ops:Sorry!
it wasn`t aimed a you g :wink:
Sex God
so staggs let me guess this right
the convicted looters can be teached to have a better education
but cant be trained for work skills in case they take the jobs of others who want them jobs
when trained
(i never realised the working class was such an exclucive club)
i do believe watching the news that most of the talk from young adults in these affected area`s was they wanted a future! jobs etc
or would you rather they stay in poverty as it champions your marxist views
I'm also now wondering if someone else had suggested it you may have agreed
in edit i also think that by teaching maths to some of these will only educate them to loot the more expencive goods
now i see your logic who wants to buy cheap knock off
the convicted looters can be teached to have a better education
but cant be trained for work skills in case they take the jobs of others who want them jobs
when trained
(i never realised the working class was such an exclucive club)
i do believe watching the news that most of the talk from young adults in these affected area`s was they wanted a future! jobs etc
or would you rather they stay in poverty as it champions your marxist views
I'm also now wondering if someone else had suggested it you may have agreed
in edit i also think that by teaching maths to some of these will only educate them to loot the more expencive goods
now i see your logic who wants to buy cheap knock off
Sex God
Quote by starlightcouple
ok so whos going to tutor them will that not have to payed for
well they are currently apparently being taught by peeple with little more than a a level rob
there are other links but this one was top of the list.
scary that children are being taught by teechers who do not have any degrees at all.
It doesn't say that.
Many children are home educated, by parents who lack the 'correct' qualifications to do so. Should that stop?
