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Govt Inquiry into cycling

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Unknown User
Quote by Too Hot
I was once told that the reason road users remain unskilled is because they don't get enough feedback about their mistakes.

I would like to throw in a point know if Ben will allow.
For most people a driving test is a once in a lifetime thing. It may take you several times to pass, but when you pass you pass. For the vast majority the car test is the end of it.
I hold an LGV and a PSV licence. Both of which are an addition to a basic car licence. I have successfully passed the fire service emergency response driver test, the Police advanced driver course and two different ambulance blue light courses.
Now because of the job I do I am forced to sit an LGV test once every six months with the knowledge that if I fail I'm almost jobless, now thats pressure.
Most people never sit anything more than a basic driving test, basic being the word, and feedback once in a lifetime would do them no end of good
I would love to see a touch screen test like we have under the construction skills certification scheme, for motorists to keep abreast of changing legislation/driving skills etc.
failure to get the required 80% would mean a re-sit and following failure of the resit a temporary ban for a week.
Absolutely correct. Anyone in charge of any motor vehicle should be re-tested on a regular basis (every three years?) until they turn 40, a further test at 50 and then at 60 and then again every three years thereafter.
Yep, government could charge for it. maybe stop some folks in this Great Nation of ours thinking it was a right and not a privilege
Unknown User
Quote by Too Hot
There is no need to be enthusiastic, but by suggesting cyclists are penalised will simply put people back in their cars and make your own driving experience that much worse - is that what you want?
British Cycling represents a fair chunk of "adult" cyclists and 87% of their Members are also motor vehicle owners and so you would imagine and expect that they have a fair understanding of the rules of the road. Suggesting that cyclists pay a road tax is completely stupid especially when the number of cars now on Group A VED rates is growing exponentially. Whether it is a bicycle, motorcycle, car, van or commercial vehicle it is the person in control of the vehicle that matters in terms of safety - not the vehicle.
There is a psycholgical issue at the heart of this and being a car driver (4X4), motorcyclist (superbike) and cyclist (hybrid) I understand that what we all want to do, is to make the fastest progress that we can. When I am in the 4X4 I am very much limited in what I can do to make progress because I am in a line of traffic and there is sometimes a temptation to "speed" or overtake unnecessarily in order to make better progress. On my motorcycle i have considerably more manoevrability and acceleration that enables me to make better progress in traffic by filtering. This annoys car drivers no end and often they will try to block me just out of spite. On my bicycle, I have the ultimate flexibility and if a car tries to stop me filtering I can just go around the outside, cut inside or generally do whatever I can to keep moving. At delayed lights I can get off, walk across the pedestrian crossing and get back on and seemingly this flexibility annoys motorcyclists and motorists!
Bottom line here is that there should be respect all around for different classes of road user but in particular many motorists have no understanding at all of the vulnerabilities of being on two wheels. This point is important because of this report that is currently being proposed and the INTENTION is to create a sense of safety to get people out of their cars and onto bicycles for at least some of their journeys. Some of the proposals being considered are:
1) Increase in the number and size of cycle lanes so that cyclists have dedicated road space on at least 75% of the UK's A roads and are not hemmed into a norrow side section of the road that has been identified as being a primary cause of SMIDSY type accidents. The proposal is to enlarge the cycle lane to one third of the available road width.
2) Reduction of the urban speed limit from 30 mph to 20 mph but an allowance to enter a cycle lane if no cyclist is present or the cyclist gives way to allow safe overtaking.
3) Compulsory third party insurance for cyclists (currently supplied as Membership of British Cycling - up to £10 million)
4) Construction of new, dedicated cycle and pedestrian only routes across the UK with every local authority being given a minimum target of miles and a budget funded by DVLA
Unfortunately, whether we like it or not, the age of the car has peaked. There are almost 40% more cars on the road today than there were in 1994 and increases like that are unsustainable. We all know this but no one wants to do anything about it.
This committee has cross party support and its intention is to get people to make at least some of their journeys by bicycle. There is a realisation that taxing vehicle use may have some effect but encouraging a safer cycle environment will do much more.
By the way - It costs me almost £100 to fill my 4 X 4 up and i used to fill it every two weeks, now it is once a month. There are so many journeys you can do on a bicycle of you think about it and the government just wants to make those journeys safer.

Did David Cassidy not do a song about day dreamers? Oh yes I think he did. lol
TooHot2
Sex God
Put BBC Parliament on now - provisional debates by Alok Sharma.
EVERY authority to have a cycling commissioner to target increased cycling use and reduced cycling injuries. Aim to increase cycling use by 4X in as short a time as possible.
Driving test to have new cycling safety related provisions
20mph driving speed limits if no cycle lane is present
2% of DfT budget allocated to new cycling lanes
Cycling at the forefront of future transport polict
Helmets to be made compulsory
Lizaleanrob
Sex God
Quote by Too Hot
I was once told that the reason road users remain unskilled is because they don't get enough feedback about their mistakes.

I would like to throw in a point know if Ben will allow.
For most people a driving test is a once in a lifetime thing. It may take you several times to pass, but when you pass you pass. For the vast majority the car test is the end of it.
I hold an LGV and a PSV licence. Both of which are an addition to a basic car licence. I have successfully passed the fire service emergency response driver test, the Police advanced driver course and two different ambulance blue light courses.
Now because of the job I do I am forced to sit an LGV test once every six months with the knowledge that if I fail I'm almost jobless, now thats pressure.
Most people never sit anything more than a basic driving test, basic being the word, and feedback once in a lifetime would do them no end of good
I would love to see a touch screen test like we have under the construction skills certification scheme, for motorists to keep abreast of changing legislation/driving skills etc.
failure to get the required 80% would mean a re-sit and following failure of the resit a temporary ban for a week.
Absolutely correct. Anyone in charge of any motor vehicle should be re-tested on a regular basis (every three years?) until they turn 40, a further test at 50 and then at 60 and then again every three years thereafter.
anyone who uses the road should be tested, the same rules should apply ref dangerous driving/drink driving and driving with undue care and attention.
as it stands anyone can get on a bike and use our roads with little or no training at all, the same stands for a 5o cc moped and we wonder why so many are injured and killed each year dunno
Unknown User
Quote by Lizaleanrob
anyone who uses the road should be tested, the same rules should apply ref dangerous driving/drink driving and driving with undue care and attention.
as it stands anyone can get on a bike and use our roads with little or no training at all, the same stands for a 5o cc moped and we wonder why so many are injured and killed each year dunno

Unless you obtained a full car licence before 2001 you need to complete a CBT course to ride a moped.
Lizaleanrob
Sex God
Quote by MartnJewl

anyone who uses the road should be tested, the same rules should apply ref dangerous driving/drink driving and driving with undue care and attention.
as it stands anyone can get on a bike and use our roads with little or no training at all, the same stands for a 5o cc moped and we wonder why so many are injured and killed each year dunno

Unless you obtained a full car licence before 2001 you need to complete a CBT course to ride a moped.
i was unaware the law was changed, 6 years ago when our son wanted a ped he could just go out and get one and drive till his heart was content,till we made him do a course wink
i also think hi vis on a cycle of any type should also be law
lets face it most dress up like the milk tray man and wonder why no one sees them :dunno:
GnV
Sex God
Quote by flower
If you are unable to see a person on a bicycle because they are wearing dark clothing maybe you shouldn`t be driving at all !

Uh????
So, on that basis, there is no need for lights on bikes or reflectors?
I do worry about you sometimes rolleyes
TooHot2
Sex God
Quote by Lizaleanrob
.............
i also think hi vis on a cycle of any type should also be law
lets face it most dress up like the milk tray man and wonder why no one sees them dunno

It is common sense to protect yourself and the wearing of hi visibility and helmets is always going to help but you would be surprised at just how little it helps in the main cause of accidents where motor vehicle drivers just "fail to see cyclists."
Imagine you are a car driver and you are sat at a t - juntion waiting to turn right. As you look right your eyes can easily sense movement that moves across your field of vision. If something appears to be coming directly towards you your eyes do not immediately sense an object that appears to be "static" and is growing larger as opposed to moving across your field of vision. The human eye will detect a change much faster than something that is simply "getting bigger." The closer that you are to the junction and the closer the cyclist/motorcyclist is to the kerb the more difficult that they are to "see" because relatively they will be coming almost straight towards you and only when they are very close will the relative movement across you become apparent.
Top tips -
As a driver dont get too close to the junction so that you physically (the driver) are set back and can better get a sense of movement across your field of vision even if the person on two wheels is hugging the kerb. This is particularly relevant with very small cars where the driver is very close to the front of the car.
As a person on two wheels approaching a car waiting to come out - move away from the kerb, do a small s manoevre - anything that you can do to detach yourself from the background. NEVER assume that the driver has seen you.
Many cyclists and motorcyclists get astounded when this type of accident happens to them but unfortunately it is a human performance issue and not necessarily about the driver purposely "not looking." Only enhanced training and/or motorists having experience on two wheels will resolve this type of accident simply because of the way that the human eye/brain works.
This is one reason why car drivers do need to give cyclists and moped riders a bit more space on roadways because kerb hugging along busy a roads with lots of junctions is really quite dangerous.
Steve
Sex God
Quote by GnV
If you are unable to see a person on a bicycle because they are wearing dark clothing maybe you shouldn`t be driving at all !

Uh????
So, on that basis, there is no need for lights on bikes or reflectors?
I do worry about you sometimes rolleyes
Quote by someone in another thread
What is the word for going out of your way to deliberately stir the shit?
TooHot2
Sex God
Quote by flower411
...............
And yet again the cyclist is being blamed because some drivers are unable to see properly !
If you are unable to see a person on a bicycle because they are wearing dark clothing maybe you shouldn`t be driving at all !

You are correct. But being defensive is usually the best course of action and anything you can do to be "seen" always helps - even if it not just about clothing (see earlier post).
Unknown User
Quote by Steve
If you are unable to see a person on a bicycle because they are wearing dark clothing maybe you shouldn`t be driving at all !

Uh????
So, on that basis, there is no need for lights on bikes or reflectors?
I do worry about you sometimes rolleyes
Quote by someone in another thread
What is the word for going out of your way to deliberately stir the shit?

Shitfaced I think was the answer.
Am glad you also saw what I saw in some comments and the reasons behind them.:thumbup:
Unknown User

So do you Too Hot? rotflmao
TooHot2
Sex God
Quote by starlightcouple

So do you Too Hot? rotflmao

I know that there is a really great need in Britain to pigeon hole people but unfortunately you can't pigeon hole me. No, I don't shave - as Mrs Hot says - wild animals should be hairy. My image is probably more 1970's motorcyclist than modern cyclist which is handy for when the heavily customised Harley comes out of the garage in Spring.
I think it is always better to be yourself than to be a follower of other peoples fashions, idea's and viewpoints.
Lizaleanrob
Sex God
Quote by Too Hot

So do you Too Hot? rotflmao

I know that there is a really great need in Britain to pigeon hole people but unfortunately you can't pigeon hole me. No, I don't shave - as Mrs Hot says - wild animals should be hairy. My image is probably more 1970's motorcyclist than modern cyclist which is handy for when the heavily customised Harley comes out of the garage in Spring.
I think it is always better to be yourself than to be a follower of other peoples fashions, idea's and viewpoints.
if you own a Harley you obviously don't do a lot of riding :rotflmao::rotflmao::rotflmao:
TooHot2
Sex God
Quote by Lizaleanrob
if you own a Harley you obviously don't do a lot of riding rotflmao:rotflmao::rotflmao:

Two actually - but it is the Honda Deauville that gets ridden the most, the Harleys are just for posing. :-)
Lizaleanrob
Sex God
Quote by Too Hot

if you own a Harley you obviously don't do a lot of riding rotflmao:rotflmao::rotflmao:

Two actually - but it is the Honda Deauville that gets ridden the most, the Harleys are just for posing. :-)
what like a fasion statement kind a thing bolt
Ben_Minx
Sex God
Why would a particular brand of motorcycle prevent one from riding?
Unknown User
Quote by Ben_Minx
Why would a particular brand of motorcycle prevent one from riding?

You obviously do not understand the joke Ben, and I am not going to fill you in. lol
Ben_Minx
Sex God
Why do you usually assume other people lack intellect, life experience or knowledge?
Quote by starlightcouple
Why would a particular brand of motorcycle prevent one from riding?

You obviously do not understand the joke Ben, and I am not going to fill you in. lol
Unknown User
Quote by Ben_Minx
Why do you usually assume other people lack intellect, life experience or knowledge?

Do I ? I was only referring to your past comment on the subject. Where did you get the ' other people ' from exactly?
No other people as it was you that wrote
Quote by Ben_Minx
Why would a particular brand of motorcycle prevent one from riding?

I was only assuming that you did not get the joke. Did you then? dunno
Ben_Minx
Sex God
Yeah ya do.
I am still a bit confused about the Harley reference but will let it ride.
Unknown User
Quote by Ben_Minx
Yeah ya do.
I am still a bit confused about the Harley reference but will let it ride.

:laughabove::laughabove::laughabove: Very good Ben.....very good indeed.
TooHot2
Sex God
Quote by Ben_Minx
Yeah ya do.
I am still a bit confused about the Harley reference but will let it ride.

It used to be that Harley Davidsons were very unreliable and hence not out on the road much. These days it is more about Harleys being used by fair weather bikers for posing. To a degree this is true, but many Harley owners do cover lots of miles and even use them as every day bikes - unlike us....
Lizaleanrob
Sex God
Quote by Ben_Minx
Why would a particular brand of motorcycle prevent one from riding?

a Harley is like a Ferrari ben its a wonderful sculpted work of (road) art
the reasons these things are so pleasing to eye is because many a morning or afternoon will be taken admiring such beauty whilst waiting for the tow truck to arrive lol
Unknown User
Quote by starlightcouple

So do you Too Hot? rotflmao

Yep I do, but don't restrict it to my legs. I'm an all over person :-) you can tell that from me piccies though!
nellie1
Sex God
Guess i was lucky then cus the harley i owned never broke down and was used in all weather all year round smile and i am definetly not a poser, the opposite in fact :)
TooHot2
Sex God
Quote by starlightcouple
I certainly would not hold my breath on that one. Car drivers make up a huge amount of the voting population,and they are pissed off enough with the price of fuel. Dare a Government anger them any further? Time will tell, but it certainly ain't gonna happen anytime soon.
I would not be too smug just yet, as the car driver holds a lot of clout, and the cyclist is just a minor irritation at best. :bounce:

Did you see the NICE report released yesterday and plastered over many News Channels and Newspaper websites?
They are calling for escalated fuel duty and car parking charges to force people to walk / cycle. I have to say that I don't agree with such extremes and feel that encouragement is far better than beating with a stick, bou can't avoid the escalating momentum though - it is coming from all sides.
Today I went to Southport in Merseyside and up until Spring of this year, I would not have considered any other way of going on a day like today other than in the toasty warm 4X4 with the seat heaters on full blast. Today, I jumped on the bicycle rode two miles to the station, got an off peak return ticket and cycled 3 miles to where I was going in Southport. Was home again before 1pm after having cycled 10 miles, had a quick and efficient train journey, saved a fortune in fuel and the train cost what it would have cost to park.
I can't do that every journey I make but I am choosing to do some and you know what - it is great!
GnV
Sex God

You might struggle getting one of these on the train though
Unknown User
Quote by Too Hot
Did you see the NICE report released yesterday and plastered over many News Channels and Newspaper websites?

Nope, they are exactly? Oh yes I remember now....... ' The National Institute for Health and Clinical Excellence (NICE) is an independent organisation that provides national guidance and standards on the promotion of good health and the prevention and treatment of ill health.
Ah guidance eh? So no powers as such? rolleyes They are fantastic for the guidance of people to get fit, like obese people who have trouble keeping the fridge door closed. But there are still a few of us out there that like to be able to make their own decisions and not everyone is a porker, some people are still slim and healthy. Rare I know, but they do exist.
Quote by Too Hot
They are calling for escalated fuel duty and car parking charges to force people to walk / cycle. I have to say that I don't agree with such extremes and feel that encouragement is far better than beating with a stick, bou can't avoid the escalating momentum though - it is coming from all sides.

They can call for the introduction of the death penalty, but have no powers to impose any laws..........just GUIDANCE !!! banghead
Quote by Too Hot
Today I went to Southport in Merseyside and up until Spring of this year, I would not have considered any other way of going on a day like today other than in the toasty warm 4X4 with the seat heaters on full blast. Today, I jumped on the bicycle rode two miles to the station, got an off peak return ticket and cycled 3 miles to where I was going in Southport. Was home again before 1pm after having cycled 10 miles, had a quick and efficient train journey, saved a fortune in fuel and the train cost what it would have cost to park.

Well bully for you, your just such a national hero. :doh:
If you feel so much better for it then great, but remember even Doctors would say too much exercise can be bad for you, so mind how you go Too Hot, don't want the NHS to have to come to your rescue for over doing things.
Quote by Too Hot
I can't do that every journey I make but I am choosing to do some and you know what - it is great!

Well mind those pot holes out there. Would hate for you to disappear down one.