We are GREAT, people seem to think this Nation has lost it's Greatness but we haven't
Great Britain gives more financial aid to Syria than any other European Nation.
We have pledged to give £12 Billion a year in overseas aid, not only have we pledged to do it but the Conservatives have failed in their attempts to prevent the Lib Dems and the Labour party making it a rule of law that we give £12 Billion a year in overseas aid.
Now why we need a law stating that we have to give that much aid I don't know, we have been trying to give that much for some years but haven't achieved the figure yet, though we have got very close to it. It is going to be interesting when the law is passed to see if we achieve the figure, of course if we don't then the Chancellor of the Exchequer is going to be facing Criminal Charges for breaking the law, perhaps even facing imprisonment but certainly has to lose his job since it would be wrong of us to employ a criminal in the House of Commons.
That will be a shame for him since the MP's have just voted to increase the amount of subsidies the UK Tax payers have to pay for the alcohol consumed in the Houses of Parliament and House of Lords bars, yes alcohol in there cost at around one third of what it does in any other licensed premises because it is subsidised by the taxpayers, not sure why it needs to be, anyone know why MPs need to buy their alcohol cheaper than us ? I mean if it is because they are entertaining people in matters relating to constituency matters or Parliamentary matters then they can claim the costs back on their entertainment expenses, in fact last time I heard expenses were paid without the need to claim in a quite large set amount depending on your MP status (cabinet Ministers get more etc)
Don't get me wrong, I understand that financial aid is given for a number of reasons to Countries we believe need it, ok well not always because they need it but often as a sweetner to gain favour from certain Nations, China, Vietnam, Pakistan etc, but did we need to spend all that money in making a law to ensure we do ?
So prison for the Chancellor, cheap booze for the MP's oh and they approved themselves another 10% pay rise this week, all in all from what I read this week, there has never been a better time to become an MP, add that to your TV and Road Tax exemptions and all the other perks I think I might have a word with UKIP and check out their vacancies.
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GREAT Britain
Quote by Jed
Great Britain gives more financial aid to Syria than any other European Nation.
:silly:
When did Syria join the EU?
More worrying just now than the subsidised booze being served in the Palace of Westminster is the claim about rings in the 'mother' of all Parliaments and the subsequent 'cover ups' and lost dossiers...
Quote by GnV
Great Britain gives more financial aid to Syria than any other European Nation.
:silly:
When did Syria join the EU?
More worrying just now than the subsidised booze being served in the Palace of Westminster is the claim about rings in the 'mother' of all Parliaments and the subsequent 'cover ups' and lost dossiers...
AFAIK Syria hasn't joined the EUm, but that doesn't mean Great Britain can give them more aid money than any other European country can.
If anyone is deluded that MPs are overworked and underpaid, have a look at this website:
MPs can receive payment for going on television and radio programmes to promote their own party policies...
And when they're not working for their constituents, they can earn money making speeches at universities, working as company directors, working as lawyers (one MP claimed he was working on a complex case full time for several months and claimed tens of thousands of pounds!!), writing newspaper columns...
And then they get freebies such as flights to New York for themselves and their families, tickets to opera, theatre, music gigs, sporting events etc...
Lost me now, when and where did I say anything about the EU ? as far as I am aware, Europe is still Europe with or without EU membership, has Switzerland been moved to a new continent just because it is not an EU member state ?
The financial aid being given to Syria has nothing to do with Europe or the EU, we are in fact giving more financial aid than anyone else including neighbouring Arab Nations and the USA.
The financial aid being given to Syria has nothing to do with Europe or the EU, we are in fact giving more financial aid than anyone else including neighbouring Arab Nations and the USA.
Quote by MidsCouple24
We are GREAT, people seem to think this Nation has lost it's Greatness but we haven't
Great Britain gives more financial aid to Syria than any other European Nation.
Yes we are Great again but we don't fund Syria in any way. We fund humanitarian aid to those countries adjacent to Syria for the refugees. We also fund official opposition parties to Assad.
Quote by MidsCouple24
So prison for the Chancellor, cheap booze for the MP's oh and they approved themselves another 10% pay rise this week, all in all from what I read this week, there has never been a better time to become an MP, add that to your TV and Road Tax exemptions and all the other perks I think I might have a word with UKIP and check out their vacancies.
The MPs haven't voted in their own pay rise. That is now done by an independent body who make the assessment. As a minor point the cabinet actually took a 5% pay cut on taking office and have not had any increases in 4 years. And the booze? Hell they need a drink or three after a day in that place ...
And another one, let me reiterate what I said, I never said anything about the EU and I never said we fund Syria, I started by talking about the money we give in overseas AID, donations to other Countries and how the amount of £12 Billion is set to become compulsory by law.
My point about Syria is simply me wondering exactly why the United Kingdom is giving the most in aid to them, I know they need it, I don't object to helping those who need help but I would like to see other Nations helping more, some of whom are in a better financial position than us to help at least equally if not with more aid.
My main question is why do we need a law passing about the amount of financial aid we give, surely we are already giving more than we can afford and if we could afford more would gladly give it.
The £12 Billion we do give is money we borrow, anyone know the interest payments on £12 Billion, I personally think we are doing an awful lot to help other Nations in need, without the need to pass laws on it and I think what we do pay should be more controlled, to ensure it is used for the right purpose, aid is aid, it is not for new Palaces, school system improvements for Nations who have more in the Bank than we have. Quite often it is being used to improve trade relations or to curry favour, that needs to be a separate fund.
My point about Syria is simply me wondering exactly why the United Kingdom is giving the most in aid to them, I know they need it, I don't object to helping those who need help but I would like to see other Nations helping more, some of whom are in a better financial position than us to help at least equally if not with more aid.
My main question is why do we need a law passing about the amount of financial aid we give, surely we are already giving more than we can afford and if we could afford more would gladly give it.
The £12 Billion we do give is money we borrow, anyone know the interest payments on £12 Billion, I personally think we are doing an awful lot to help other Nations in need, without the need to pass laws on it and I think what we do pay should be more controlled, to ensure it is used for the right purpose, aid is aid, it is not for new Palaces, school system improvements for Nations who have more in the Bank than we have. Quite often it is being used to improve trade relations or to curry favour, that needs to be a separate fund.
Quote by MidsCouple24
Lost me now, when and where did I say anything about the EU ? as far as I am aware, Europe is still Europe with or without EU membership, has Switzerland been moved to a new continent just because it is not an EU member state ?
The financial aid being given to Syria has nothing to do with Europe or the EU, we are in fact giving more financial aid than anyone else including neighbouring Arab Nations and the USA.
aha! when you said "Great Britain gives more financial aid to Syria than any other European Nation" I think you meant to add the word "does" at the end...
Then your post makes sense in the context intended :jagsatwork:
Quote by GnV
Lost me now, when and where did I say anything about the EU ? as far as I am aware, Europe is still Europe with or without EU membership, has Switzerland been moved to a new continent just because it is not an EU member state ?
The financial aid being given to Syria has nothing to do with Europe or the EU, we are in fact giving more financial aid than anyone else including neighbouring Arab Nations and the USA.
aha! when you said "Great Britain gives more financial aid to Syria than any other European Nation" I think you meant to add the word "does" at the end...
Then your post makes sense in the context intended :jagsatwork:
Fair point but since when did you have to be in the EU to be a European Nation, once again I bring peoples attention to Switzerland, a non-EU member which is considered by most to be in Europe, even Western Europe an not the new Eastern Europe much of which used to be considered as not in Europe but in the USSR.
is britain so great at the moment?
country doesnt look so good with all these historical sex crimes and missing documents on dirty mp's.
going to war on a lie, people leaving britain to fight in foreign contries because they hate their homeland.
house prices out of control because of the greed that has divided people and moved one class of people against another in the pursuit of money.
greddy bankers who bankrupted a nation for its subjects to suffer cuts in benefits and local services.
tensions raising in communites as more foreign people move in and seem to get council homes before those on waiting lists.
doctors surgerys were people are being treated with little care, just pushed out the door as pressure builds on the local nhs funding due to overwhelming numbers.
kids which are fat and live in a world of the xbox,fast food and prefer isolation to making real friends and developing social skills.
families pushed to breaking point with raising rents, food, energy and fuel bills.
more people becoming mentally ill as life becomes impossible.
people do not care about each other anymore. would rather chat on a mobile or text than have a face to face conversation.
we are rapidly becoming a selfish society of one.
country doesnt look so good with all these historical sex crimes and missing documents on dirty mp's.
going to war on a lie, people leaving britain to fight in foreign contries because they hate their homeland.
house prices out of control because of the greed that has divided people and moved one class of people against another in the pursuit of money.
greddy bankers who bankrupted a nation for its subjects to suffer cuts in benefits and local services.
tensions raising in communites as more foreign people move in and seem to get council homes before those on waiting lists.
doctors surgerys were people are being treated with little care, just pushed out the door as pressure builds on the local nhs funding due to overwhelming numbers.
kids which are fat and live in a world of the xbox,fast food and prefer isolation to making real friends and developing social skills.
families pushed to breaking point with raising rents, food, energy and fuel bills.
more people becoming mentally ill as life becomes impossible.
people do not care about each other anymore. would rather chat on a mobile or text than have a face to face conversation.
we are rapidly becoming a selfish society of one.
Quote by MidsCouple24
Lost me now, when and where did I say anything about the EU ? as far as I am aware, Europe is still Europe with or without EU membership, has Switzerland been moved to a new continent just because it is not an EU member state ?
The financial aid being given to Syria has nothing to do with Europe or the EU, we are in fact giving more financial aid than anyone else including neighbouring Arab Nations and the USA.
aha! when you said "Great Britain gives more financial aid to Syria than any other European Nation" I think you meant to add the word "does" at the end...
Then your post makes sense in the context intended :jagsatwork:
Fair point but since when did you have to be in the EU to be a European Nation, once again I bring peoples attention to Switzerland, a non-EU member which is considered by most to be in Europe, even Western Europe an not the new Eastern Europe much of which used to be considered as not in Europe but in the USSR.
Sorry to be pedantic but... Syria is not in the continent of Europe which is why your postwas confusing... Syria is located in southwest Asia and is therefore in the continent of Asia, not Europe.
Quote by GnV
we are rapidly becoming a selfish society of one.
Even the BBC recognise that, as they have a program called The One Show :thrilled:
... and BBC One
... and Radio One
... and Chip Hawkes had a hit with 'One and Only'
Now being slightly serious for a minute tyracer. I found your piece a bit depressing because you seem to be dredging up past wrongs and fail to mention current rights. Which is surely the basic point of the OP?
Historical sex crimes? They are precisely that. Historical.
Missing docs? From 30 years ago?
War on a lie? (Iraq?) 11 years ago and caused by a politician not the basic country.
People leaving Britain? These are young men who have been poisoned by radical Imams peddling hatred in the name of Islam. That is hardly a 'British' thing and hardly supported by British people.
Hate their homeland? They are fighting in Palestine and Syria and Iraq. Hardly Manchester.
House prices have always moved up and down. Its called market forces and they are NOT out of control. The buyers dictate prices no one else. And any 'bubble' is in London not anywhere else so hardly a 'British' thing.
Yep I agree Bankers were twats and got away with murder. But with respect it started in New York ...
Foreigners have always come the UK because they believe its a place worth coming to. Which sort of negates your arguments. Any excessive and out of control immigration is the fault of a certain political party that failed the UK and its subjects and the fact we are part of a discredited EU. Again hardly a 'British' thing.
Doctors are symptoms of the above situation. Oh and the fact they were given massive contracts to do less work ...
Fat kids? Christ how is that a 'British' issue? Blame the parents not Britain ...
Families pushed? They have always had to fight and they are no worse off now than they ever were. No one should suffer but that is life. But its a British only issue?
Sorry I think we live in a fabulous country which once again is feeling 'Great' again. And if you want a symbol of how we are showing the world we can still 'do it' Her Majesty named our latest Carrier last Friday and it was a magnificent occasion celebrating a massive engineering achievement. Somewhat better done than the Yanks managed, quicker and at a third the cost of their new one. Be proud tyracer! Be proud! You have much to be proud of when you are British!
Orgasminator
This country made tens of billions from trade, oil and finance deals with syria prior to the uprising, far more than any other european nation......
I think the people of syria deserve a little cashback, no one in this country (other than perhaps the veterans of previous conflicts) can fully appreciate the apocalyptic conditions currently faced by people who wanted nothing more than the freedoms and rights we have had for hundreds of years.
I think the people of syria deserve a little cashback, no one in this country (other than perhaps the veterans of previous conflicts) can fully appreciate the apocalyptic conditions currently faced by people who wanted nothing more than the freedoms and rights we have had for hundreds of years.
Quote by GnV
Lost me now, when and where did I say anything about the EU ? as far as I am aware, Europe is still Europe with or without EU membership, has Switzerland been moved to a new continent just because it is not an EU member state ?
The financial aid being given to Syria has nothing to do with Europe or the EU, we are in fact giving more financial aid than anyone else including neighbouring Arab Nations and the USA.
aha! when you said "Great Britain gives more financial aid to Syria than any other European Nation" I think you meant to add the word "does" at the end...
Then your post makes sense in the context intended :jagsatwork:
Fair point but since when did you have to be in the EU to be a European Nation, once again I bring peoples attention to Switzerland, a non-EU member which is considered by most to be in Europe, even Western Europe an not the new Eastern Europe much of which used to be considered as not in Europe but in the USSR.
Sorry to be pedantic but... Syria is not in the continent of Europe which is why your postwas confusing... Syria is located in southwest Asia and is therefore in the continent of Asia, not Europe.
And Syria is not being asked to give humanitarian aid to Syria that would be a bit silly, my point was that we are supposed to be a member state of the EU, the European Community, yet we alone lead the way in the amount of humanitarian aid we are giving them, it is good that we are giving so much but I ask myself, why Britain that so many are supposed to consider the lepers and scum of the EU (according to recent reports following Camerons defeat in the leadership elections) lead the way.
I am proud of this Nation that is doing so much and as much as it can, but if we are truly a United EU community then the EU should be setting rates for humanitarian aid and foreign aid given each year and based on each Nations GP, size and ability.
They dictate so much else to us why are they not making sure that this important issue is also fair within the EU ?
Let us not debate the fact I missed "does" out of my post and discuss the more important age of helping people who need help around the world and making the "benefit cheat Nations" do more to help themselves.
Quote by Chish?
You have much to be proud of when you are British!
Try telling that to around around a Fifth of the population currently living under our own official poverty line? That spanky in service in 2020 Air Craft Carrier will give approx 14 million poverty stricken Brits that feel good factor and help them feel better about struggling to eat/clothe themselves? Hmm, I don't think so.
Its the Govt/Banks talking up the Economy, a few years ago with the was trouble in Libya and the Middle East in general oil prices increased at a rapid rate of knots, the economy was in tatters part due to it, the banks were in turmoil blah blah flippin blah and yet roll on a few more years and even more unrest in the Middle East and yet the Petrol Prices are lower, inflation is lower, the cost of food is lower with the Govt talking up the Economy as if we're on a bounce? Really? It couldn't be that they want interest rates up so as to bring peoples money back to the greedy as ever banks? Just cos a bag of Pasta or a single Broccoli is cheaper than a few weeks ago the food must of gone down with the knock on being lower inflation Zzz?
The feel good factor exists only for those stupid enough to believe the UK is in good shape or greedy or wealthy but for the vast amount of the population, who over the last few years have been systematically beaten into submission by the constant rhetoric spilled from the Govts mouth. Propaganda rulez eh
Aaaaaaaaaaaaah so all the downside is the banks and politicians, the good side is the people of Britain.
Yes I agree, if I had my way all politicians would be made to live on Benefits Street for 5 years along with those that run the banks.
But DESPITE them we are a Great Nation, we have little but give what we can, we are there when you need us and though we have many faults, our hearts are good, we are not generally speaking racist but our politicians make us seem that way, all we want is equal opportunity, we don't care if someone is a Black or Polish immigrant providing the opportunities and help we give them is/are no more than a British Subject would be entitled to.
We don't care if Muslims are a bit different providing they compromise a little as we have to and run their religious beliefs and cultural differences ALONGSIDE and WITH our own.
Most of us just want equality with our neighbours and those that come to our Country, we have paid for our National Health service with our taxes and expect visitors to pay for their use of it with travel insurance as we do when we go abroad.
Some abuse our hospitality but not all not even most who come here, and that is our own fault, all we need is immigration controls and we could have even more immigrants coming here but to our benefit not detriment, we could recruit nurses and doctors and dentists and skilled workers on a greater scale that we do now, all we need is to say "you can come here if you can house yourself and pay your way" Australia does it, Jersey does it, the Channel Islands do it, Switzerland does it.
We could tell the EU that we will allow tourists, we will allow workers providing they can prove they have the ability to finance themselves whilst here, that they have medical insurance should they need help, that they can speak enough of our language to be able to look after themselves or will be living with others who can help them.
The EU could say no but we can say goodbye, the EU is only good as long as it is a benefit to the member states and right now I do not believe it is the beneficial community it once was or was intended to be, it is no longer a Common Market it is a Big Brother Dictatorship.
Yes I agree, if I had my way all politicians would be made to live on Benefits Street for 5 years along with those that run the banks.
But DESPITE them we are a Great Nation, we have little but give what we can, we are there when you need us and though we have many faults, our hearts are good, we are not generally speaking racist but our politicians make us seem that way, all we want is equal opportunity, we don't care if someone is a Black or Polish immigrant providing the opportunities and help we give them is/are no more than a British Subject would be entitled to.
We don't care if Muslims are a bit different providing they compromise a little as we have to and run their religious beliefs and cultural differences ALONGSIDE and WITH our own.
Most of us just want equality with our neighbours and those that come to our Country, we have paid for our National Health service with our taxes and expect visitors to pay for their use of it with travel insurance as we do when we go abroad.
Some abuse our hospitality but not all not even most who come here, and that is our own fault, all we need is immigration controls and we could have even more immigrants coming here but to our benefit not detriment, we could recruit nurses and doctors and dentists and skilled workers on a greater scale that we do now, all we need is to say "you can come here if you can house yourself and pay your way" Australia does it, Jersey does it, the Channel Islands do it, Switzerland does it.
We could tell the EU that we will allow tourists, we will allow workers providing they can prove they have the ability to finance themselves whilst here, that they have medical insurance should they need help, that they can speak enough of our language to be able to look after themselves or will be living with others who can help them.
The EU could say no but we can say goodbye, the EU is only good as long as it is a benefit to the member states and right now I do not believe it is the beneficial community it once was or was intended to be, it is no longer a Common Market it is a Big Brother Dictatorship.
Quote by Toots?
You have much to be proud of when you are British!
Try telling that to around around a Fifth of the population currently living under our own official poverty line? That spanky in service in 2020 Air Craft Carrier will give approx 14 million poverty stricken Brits that feel good factor and help them feel better about struggling to eat/clothe themselves? Hmm, I don't think so.
"Between 1998 and 2011-12 the number of children in relative poverty in the UK fell by about one million meaning 2.3 million UK children (17%) lived in homes with substantially lower than average income." That's a quote from the Leftie BBC so I think we can take it as correct. "The measure of relative poverty - defined as when families have a net income that is below 60% of "median net disposable income" - or £250 a week or less at the moment. Using this, there was no change on child poverty and the number and proportion of working-age adults in relative poverty also remained at about the same level" Again from a BBC documentary investigating poverty.
Quote by Toots
Its the Govt/Banks talking up the Economy, a few years ago with the was trouble in Libya and the Middle East in general oil prices increased at a rapid rate of knots, the economy was in tatters part due to it, the banks were in turmoil blah blah flippin blah and yet roll on a few more years and even more unrest in the Middle East and yet the Petrol Prices are lower, inflation is lower, the cost of food is lower with the Govt talking up the Economy as if we're on a bounce? Really? It couldn't be that they want interest rates up so as to bring peoples money back to the greedy as ever banks?
With respect you seem to be throwing a mish mash of unconnected issues together to prove a point?
The Government does not control oil prices.
The economy was in 'tatters' because of the bloody Labour party roundly fucking it up over 13 years!
We are now recovering from a 7% drop in GDP in 2009 and are growing at a rate somewhere near 3%. Better than all other G7 countries and unemployment is decreasing at the highest rate in the EU and America. And that is bad?
Inflation is down because prices are under control and the Government isn't being bled dry by high money market interest rates caused by excessive borrowing and a large deficit. (Google Labour). So why would the Government want higher inflation and interest rates?
Quote by Toots
The feel good factor exists only for those stupid enough to believe the UK is in good shape or greedy or wealthy but for the vast amount of the population, who over the last few years have been systematically beaten into submission by the constant rhetoric spilled from the Govts mouth. Propaganda rulez eh
OK so I am stupid ...
But I repeat what I said before and see nothing in your outburst of factless emotion to change my mind: "You have much to be proud of when you are British!
Quote by MidsCouple24
But DESPITE them we are a Great Nation, we have little but give what we can, we are there when you need us and though we have many faults, our hearts are good, we are not generally speaking racist but our politicians make us seem that way, all we want is equal opportunity .......
I really couldn't say it better myself. Well said that man ...
Quote by Jed
Some abuse our hospitality but not all not even most who come here, and that is our own fault, all we need is immigration controls and we could have even more immigrants coming here but to our benefit not detriment, we could recruit nurses and doctors and dentists and skilled workers on a greater scale that we do now, all we need is to say "you can come here if you can house yourself and pay your way" Australia does it, Jersey does it, the Channel Islands do it, Switzerland does it.
We could tell the EU that we will allow tourists, we will allow workers providing they can prove they have the ability to finance themselves whilst here, that they have medical insurance should they need help, that they can speak enough of our language to be able to look after themselves or will be living with others who can help them.
Hummm
That is basically what the rest of Europe already does... You don't need to 'tell' Europe the UK is going to do it, you just do it!
Having the political will to do it and actually doing it are entirely different things altogether! Blathering on about how great thou art doesn't make you great at all and simply shovelling shed loads of other people's money at mainly imagined problems isn't the work of the great and the good, it smacks of little more than self-aggrandisement.
Britain is currently causing France humongous problems with it's 'open door' land of milk and honey attitude (whilst its own ageing population gets shat on). Why else do people from other nations risk death in small craft in the channel or by clinging to the chassis of lorries crossing on ferries? The rewards are there - a free and easy life style in a too generous host nation.
France is doing the right thing within EU legislation by returning itinerants to the place where they entered but, just like a dog with the scent of a bitch on heat, they just keep coming back.
John Major, when PM, decided on behalf of the UK not to sign up to the Schengen accord to protect Britain's Borders thereby not allowing free passage between Member States as is the case almost everywhere else in Europe. The administration that followed screwed that up with their (now admitted) policy of welcoming, indeed encouraging all-comers with free dosh, free housing, free health care. Little wonder now, everyone else seems to get the consequential problems.
Britain isn't a great nation once again and despite the clarion call "we're all in it together", UK citizens are not. Whereas other nations unashamedly have elitism as the cornerstone of their society, the political elite in Britain shit on their electorate from a very great height and steal their hard earned cash to fund hair brained schemes that exist only to make them look great.
Easy being philanthropic with someone else's cash, isn't it.
Sex God
Quote by GnV
Some abuse our hospitality but not all not even most who come here, and that is our own fault, all we need is immigration controls and we could have even more immigrants coming here but to our benefit not detriment, we could recruit nurses and doctors and dentists and skilled workers on a greater scale that we do now, all we need is to say "you can come here if you can house yourself and pay your way" Australia does it, Jersey does it, the Channel Islands do it, Switzerland does it.
We could tell the EU that we will allow tourists, we will allow workers providing they can prove they have the ability to finance themselves whilst here, that they have medical insurance should they need help, that they can speak enough of our language to be able to look after themselves or will be living with others who can help them.
Hummm
That is basically what the rest of Europe already does... You don't need to 'tell' Europe the UK is going to do it, you just do it!
Having the political will to do it and actually doing it are entirely different things altogether! Blathering on about how great thou art doesn't make you great at all and simply shovelling shed loads of other people's money at mainly imagined problems isn't the work of the great and the good, it smacks of little more than self-aggrandisement.
Britain is currently causing France humongous problems with it's 'open door' land of milk and honey attitude (whilst its own ageing population gets shat on). Why else do people from other nations risk death in small craft in the channel or by clinging to the chassis of lorries crossing on ferries? The rewards are there - a free and easy life style in a too generous host nation.
France is doing the right thing within EU legislation by returning itinerants to the place where they entered but, just like a dog with the scent of a bitch on heat, they just keep coming back.
John Major, when PM, decided on behalf of the UK not to sign up to the Schengen accord to protect Britain's Borders thereby not allowing free passage between Member States as is the case almost everywhere else in Europe. The administration that followed screwed that up with their (now admitted) policy of welcoming, indeed encouraging all-comers with free dosh, free housing, free health care. Little wonder now, everyone else seems to get the consequential problems.
Britain isn't a great nation once again and despite the clarion call "we're all in it together", UK citizens are not. Whereas other nations unashamedly have elitism as the cornerstone of their society, the political elite in Britain shit on their electorate from a very great height and steal their hard earned cash to fund hair brained schemes that exist only to make them look great.
Easy being philanthropic with someone else's cash, isn't it.
:worship: spot on G Quote by Chish
"Between 1998 and 2011-12 the number of children in relative poverty in the UK fell by about one million meaning 2.3 million UK children (17%) lived in homes with substantially lower than average income." That's a quote from the Leftie BBC so I think we can take it as correct. "The measure of relative poverty - defined as when families have a net income that is below 60% of "median net disposable income" - or £250 a week or less at the moment. Using this, there was no change on child poverty and the number and proportion of working-age adults in relative poverty also remained at about the same level" Again from a BBC documentary investigating poverty.
Lets not do the BBC issue, it's clear they're on the side of Cameron and his cronies but instead lets refer to Oxfam for poverty stats
and quote such lovelies as
Comparing 2007 and 2012, the poorest tenth were spending 22% more on food, to buy 5.7% less.
So spend more money but receive less food! Feeling good yet?
One in five people in the UK are living in poverty - and government spending cuts, along with the rising cost of living, are hitting those at the bottom hardest.
Nothing new with the above, but i doubt the one in five are experiencing the feel good factor.
Over a third of the population now say that they are just one large heating bill or one broken washing machine away from hardship. Many are finding it difficult to heat their homes or buy essential clothing. Most shockingly, the number of people in the UK that are going hungry is growing.
Sir Michael Marmot, a health inequality expert at University College London says that this has a huge impact on health, social mobility and even life chances: "In the most deprived part of the Westminster, life expectancy for men is 17 years shorter than in the richest part of the borough.
Quote by Chish
With respect you seem to be throwing a mish mash of unconnected issues together to prove a point?
The Government does not control oil prices.
Who said they did? The energy markets have long been manipulated, just how deep is that sand your head is stuck in? but more to the point, you've not as yet substantiated anything you've posted.
Companies such as Platts have had their offices raided (they just happen to linked to that good old Credit Rating Agency Standard & Poors who in turn were the only agency not to downgrade the UK's credit rating even though we're absolutely broke and good ol Osbourne is a mate of those in charge at S&P..nice n cosy that.
Quote by Chish
The economy was in 'tatters' because of the bloody Labour party roundly fucking it up over 13 years!
That's what all Tory apologists quote but it's pretty much baseless.
Quote by Chish
We are now recovering from a 7% drop in GDP in 2009 and are growing at a rate somewhere near 3%. Better than all other G7 countries and unemployment is decreasing at the highest rate in the EU and America. And that is bad?
Bad? depends on how you look at it, the UK's personal debt had risen to an unsustainable all time high and last year 2013 (that'll be with a coalition Govt in power) to almost twice the level a decade ago (when Labour were in power) a ticking timebomb and with only Ireland having a higher debt level in the EU.... Recovery? in whose eyes?
Quote by Chish
Inflation is down because prices are under control and the Government isn't being bled dry by high money market interest rates caused by excessive borrowing and a large deficit. (Google Labour). So why would the Government want higher inflation and interest rates?
Rubbish, inflation is down because the Coalition changed the way it calculated it with Air fares and food at the tills being cheaper...but then Oxfam knocked the food argument on it's head.
Quote by Chish
OK so I am stupid ...
But I repeat what I said before and see nothing in your outburst of factless emotion to change my mind:
The facts are there for anyone but the blind and the led? But hey you keep telling yourself that the UK is in good shape and the Govt will keep on loving you longggggtime.
To quote from GnV
Quote by GnV
Britain isn't a great nation once again and despite the clarion call "we're all in it together", UK citizens are not. Whereas other nations unashamedly have elitism as the cornerstone of their society, the political elite in Britain shit on their electorate from a very great height and steal their hard earned cash to fund hair brained schemes that exist only to make them look great.
Easy being philanthropic with someone else's cash, isn't it.
Perfick is that
Toots:
Anyone who denies Labour was totally responsible for the state of the UK economy in 2010 after 13 years in power is living in cloud cuckoo land. Its not 'baseless' as you dismissively put it. It is hard cold FACT. Like the £35Billion black hole they left in our defence Budget.
And as for your hilarious comment that the BBC is somehow Tory biased well that just takes the biscuit barrel and all! By any estimation the BBC (aka Blair Broadcasting Corporation) is very left wing biased and why I used their data from a recent programme.
As for the rest we are so far apart I am not going to waste bandwidth arguing. I fear judging from the two items above its YOU has his head in the sand not me. But hey ... whatever.
Anyone who denies Labour was totally responsible for the state of the UK economy in 2010 after 13 years in power is living in cloud cuckoo land. Its not 'baseless' as you dismissively put it. It is hard cold FACT. Like the £35Billion black hole they left in our defence Budget.
And as for your hilarious comment that the BBC is somehow Tory biased well that just takes the biscuit barrel and all! By any estimation the BBC (aka Blair Broadcasting Corporation) is very left wing biased and why I used their data from a recent programme.
As for the rest we are so far apart I am not going to waste bandwidth arguing. I fear judging from the two items above its YOU has his head in the sand not me. But hey ... whatever.
Quote by Chish
Toots:
OK you don't like the BBC? How about Joseph Rowntree organisation? That is where the BBC data came from.
Sorry Chish, I'm not sure that your link proves anything other than remind us about the amount of profit there is in chocolate and why your average Brit is obese from gorging on it as a 'comforter' (which increases their profits further).
Quakers are a peace loving people for sure but could there be something in the fact that they might prefer their vast profits to be distributed in the way they want (by establishing a charitable cause which reduces the amount of tax they pay) rather than entrust the tax they would otherwise pay to further the ends of corrupt and dishonest Governments to distribute as they (the Govt) sees fit?
I'm sure they mean well with the report you cite but, as I'm sure you know, you can prove anything with statistics if you are clever enough.
A small example (closer to my heart lol) is the reference to pensioner poverty. By some magic, in Table 1 of the report, the costs of housing for pensioners is reduced but that is not necessarily as a result of direct Government intervention as may be suggested. What the report authors fail to mention or take proper account of is that a significant proportion of the new generation of 'baby boomers' pensioners actually own their own houses (whereas their parents before them probably continued to pay rent until they were carried out in their box). Not having to pay rent will significantly affect the amount of available disposable funds and lift them out of poverty, statistically at least. Add to this also that pensioners, by and large, eat less as they get older so food bills decline as a natural progression. I know ours has and I'm not even a fully pledged pensioner yet.
So, the jury could still be out. Perhaps reducing pensioner poverty was really to do with Margaret Thatcher's selling off of council homes to tenants? You could realistically prove anything you want to.
Perhaps equally interesting is the fact that two of the report authors are from the LSE. Now they (not the same individuals but the same organisation) have done another study about media bias, particularly in reference to the BBC.
I'll leave you to draw your own inferences...
GnV:
The link was there to contradict some of Toots points about where the BBC got their data from nothing more.
I did smile at your brilliant comments but I think the Foundation is a pretty independent body these days. Arguably more so than Oxfam (as quoted by Toots) which is populated by more 'Lefties' than the BBC or The Guardian. You mention the LSE and from what I remember that is not noted for its Right Wing ideas either.
Any poverty is to be deplored. Period. But my beef is how those on the left seem to be able to find poverty where it doesn't actually exist. They use the term to make political points when the facts say otherwise. They invent things that don't exist for the same reason (eg Bedroom Tax) forgetting they did the same damn things when they were in power. They moan about food banks (excellent organisations) and yet they came to prominence halfway through the Labour 'boom years'. DWP figures show that in 1997/98 spending on 'social protection' was £114.5 billion while in 2007/08 it had increased to 187.5 billion a 64 per cent increase in nominal terms. So can we now say that Labour's 'Boom Years' threw millions into poverty? I couldn't possibly comment but Welfare spending (something that might be a barometer of poverty) in 1997, as percentage of GDP, was %. In 2010 (despite a recession and higher unemployment) it is % – lower than in any year 1979 to 1997. You may find this link of interest:
Rowntree notes that there are many ways to define 'poverty' and the generally accepted one is:
"Those with less than 60 per cent of median income are classified as poor. This ‘poverty line’ is the agreed international measure used throughout the European Union."
The net result of that definition is that as an economy grows those with static incomes are drawn into so called 'poverty'. But I defy anyone to say that someone on the Welfare Cap limit of £26k a year tax free is in 'poverty'! If they are then I worked 60 hours a week in poverty. Those who watched 'Benefit Street' will have noted none of those people were in real poverty. It is an emotive word 'poverty' and rightfully draws peoples' concern but if someone on welfare can afford to drink beer, smoke cigarettes (and some pot) then IMHO they are not 'poor'.
The link was there to contradict some of Toots points about where the BBC got their data from nothing more.
I did smile at your brilliant comments but I think the Foundation is a pretty independent body these days. Arguably more so than Oxfam (as quoted by Toots) which is populated by more 'Lefties' than the BBC or The Guardian. You mention the LSE and from what I remember that is not noted for its Right Wing ideas either.
Any poverty is to be deplored. Period. But my beef is how those on the left seem to be able to find poverty where it doesn't actually exist. They use the term to make political points when the facts say otherwise. They invent things that don't exist for the same reason (eg Bedroom Tax) forgetting they did the same damn things when they were in power. They moan about food banks (excellent organisations) and yet they came to prominence halfway through the Labour 'boom years'. DWP figures show that in 1997/98 spending on 'social protection' was £114.5 billion while in 2007/08 it had increased to 187.5 billion a 64 per cent increase in nominal terms. So can we now say that Labour's 'Boom Years' threw millions into poverty? I couldn't possibly comment but Welfare spending (something that might be a barometer of poverty) in 1997, as percentage of GDP, was %. In 2010 (despite a recession and higher unemployment) it is % – lower than in any year 1979 to 1997. You may find this link of interest:
Rowntree notes that there are many ways to define 'poverty' and the generally accepted one is:
"Those with less than 60 per cent of median income are classified as poor. This ‘poverty line’ is the agreed international measure used throughout the European Union."
The net result of that definition is that as an economy grows those with static incomes are drawn into so called 'poverty'. But I defy anyone to say that someone on the Welfare Cap limit of £26k a year tax free is in 'poverty'! If they are then I worked 60 hours a week in poverty. Those who watched 'Benefit Street' will have noted none of those people were in real poverty. It is an emotive word 'poverty' and rightfully draws peoples' concern but if someone on welfare can afford to drink beer, smoke cigarettes (and some pot) then IMHO they are not 'poor'.
Quote by Chish
GnV:
The link was there to contradict some of Toots points about where the BBC got their data from nothing more.
I did smile at your brilliant comments but I think the Foundation is a pretty independent body these days. Arguably more so than Oxfam (as quoted by Toots) which is populated by more 'Lefties' than the BBC or The Guardian.
Do you have any evidence to support your claim re Oxfam or did you just pull it out of a hat?
BBC towards the left? In your own personal book perhaps
Quote by Chish
You mention the LSE and from what I remember that is not noted for its Right Wing ideas either.
Any poverty is to be deplored. Period. But my beef is how those on the left seem to be able to find poverty where it doesn't actually exist. They use the term to make political points when the facts say otherwise. They invent things that don't exist for the same reason (eg Bedroom Tax)
You don't 'deplore' poverty, you're almost in denial it exists? and that lovely old bedroom tax, an idea mooted by Labour but implemented by the Coalition, perfect that, bring it in and then blame those that thought it up for any fallout.
Quote by Chish
forgetting they did the same damn things when they were in power. They moan about food banks (excellent organisations) and yet they came to prominence halfway through the Labour 'boom years'
Another stat pulled out of your hat? food banks have existed for decades, the Salvation Army along with organisations such as the Cyrenians have been organising soup kitchens since day blip, if you want real prominence 61,468 3 day emergency food the year the coalition took office, roll on three years and it's 913,138 no amount of playing with statistics will ever justify that increase.
Quote by Chish
Rowntree notes that there are many ways to define 'poverty' and the generally accepted one is:
"Those with less than 60 per cent of median income are classified as poor. This ‘poverty line’ is the agreed international measure used throughout the European Union."
Interesting spin and is also mentioned here
but it also goes on to say:
Finally, exclusive use of any single threshold encourages a concentration of effort on those just below the threshold to the exclusion of those who are the very poorest, and thus there is a continuing need to use a variety of thresholds. Rather, looking at a variety of thresholds potentially provides a fuller picture of what is happening and some of our indicators therefore use both 40% and 50% of median as well as 60%.
Quote by Chish
Those who watched 'Benefit Street' will have noted none of those people were in real poverty. It is an emotive word 'poverty' and rightfully draws peoples' concern but if someone on welfare can afford to drink beer, smoke cigarettes (and some pot) then IMHO they are not 'poor'.
and the above pretty much sums your worth up, whilst regrettable that those already struggling below the low income threshold go on to smoke/drink with the said 'income' does not mean that they are not experiencing/living/tasting poverty.
You should consider offering those rose coloured spectacles to the Govt, they could have them mass produced, made compulsory to wear (not forgetting to tax them) .... Job Done!
Toots:
Now we can all agree and disagree and even agree to differ. And the ability to have strenuous arguments and debate without falling out is a mark of adulthood. However you seem to feel the need to make this a personal thing with remarks like Quote:
"....and the above pretty much sums your worth up".
So with the greatest respects I am now out of this Thread and also (despite you being a Mod in the Chatroom) my closing remark in the Forum is fuck you for your personal abuse ...
Now we can all agree and disagree and even agree to differ. And the ability to have strenuous arguments and debate without falling out is a mark of adulthood. However you seem to feel the need to make this a personal thing with remarks like Quote:
"....and the above pretty much sums your worth up".
So with the greatest respects I am now out of this Thread and also (despite you being a Mod in the Chatroom) my closing remark in the Forum is fuck you for your personal abuse ...
Quote by Chish
Toots:
Now we can all agree and disagree and even agree to differ. And the ability to have strenuous arguments and debate without falling out is a mark of adulthood. However you seem to feel the need to make this a personal thing with remarks like Quote:
"....and the above pretty much sums your worth up".
So with the greatest respects I am now out of this Thread and also (despite you being a Mod in the Chatroom) my closing remark in the Forum is fuck you for your personal abuse ...
*unrolls sleeves*
Glad you upgraded your latter comments re 'argument' to then include debate
I would not want to be on benefits, the thought of it mortifies me but in the vast majority of cases those on them are well below the line of poverty..but they aint no lesser of a person no matter how they choose to spend their relative pittance.
The rest of your comments, more baseless facts.
I don't care - I still think there is a lot in Britain that is GREAT.
We may not have embraced homosexuality 100% but most of us have and we do not persecute, maim and kill them while the Police and Government turn a blind eye.
Our politicians, much as I hate them and our Monarchy do not preach "arrest the gay"
We have poverty but nobody should ever starve in the UK even if it means they have to use food banks to survive.
Our health service is not the best in the world but when you need them they are there for you and won't ask for any money before treating you.
Our armed forces stand in front for us without moaning and for little reward they are not forced to serve us, they are not corrupt, they do not invade villages and pillaging the inhabitants. They have always been there for us and they always will be there.
Most people can have a roof over their heads, there is homelessness but setting aside those who choose not to use housing aid few are forced into homelessness compared with other nations.
You will have excellent drinking water available tomorrow.
The shops have what you need (if you can afford it, and most can) essential foods are plentiful and for those really in need, there are charities financed by the good and generous people of the UK not financed by foreign aid.
You don't have to watch Germany beat us in a penalty shoot out on Sunday.
You don't have to travel far to relax in a park or woodland area.
A small Island that still has a big place in the World in general, ignore us at your peril.
Our industry is slowly fighting back, JCB lead the world in new orders and productivity for their products and for loyalty and support for their workers.
We are getting back some of our trade lost to overseas nations such as China.
Our economy though fragile has done better than quite a number of fellow European Nations.
It is by no means a bed or roses, it never has been, we are not perfect, we never have been, we will have our struggles but we will as a Nation survive.
And another 1000 reasons why there is still a reason to be proud to be British, if there wasn't why are we constantly debating why so many want to migrate here ?
We may not have embraced homosexuality 100% but most of us have and we do not persecute, maim and kill them while the Police and Government turn a blind eye.
Our politicians, much as I hate them and our Monarchy do not preach "arrest the gay"
We have poverty but nobody should ever starve in the UK even if it means they have to use food banks to survive.
Our health service is not the best in the world but when you need them they are there for you and won't ask for any money before treating you.
Our armed forces stand in front for us without moaning and for little reward they are not forced to serve us, they are not corrupt, they do not invade villages and pillaging the inhabitants. They have always been there for us and they always will be there.
Most people can have a roof over their heads, there is homelessness but setting aside those who choose not to use housing aid few are forced into homelessness compared with other nations.
You will have excellent drinking water available tomorrow.
The shops have what you need (if you can afford it, and most can) essential foods are plentiful and for those really in need, there are charities financed by the good and generous people of the UK not financed by foreign aid.
You don't have to watch Germany beat us in a penalty shoot out on Sunday.
You don't have to travel far to relax in a park or woodland area.
A small Island that still has a big place in the World in general, ignore us at your peril.
Our industry is slowly fighting back, JCB lead the world in new orders and productivity for their products and for loyalty and support for their workers.
We are getting back some of our trade lost to overseas nations such as China.
Our economy though fragile has done better than quite a number of fellow European Nations.
It is by no means a bed or roses, it never has been, we are not perfect, we never have been, we will have our struggles but we will as a Nation survive.
And another 1000 reasons why there is still a reason to be proud to be British, if there wasn't why are we constantly debating why so many want to migrate here ?
