Hunting ban to remain in place during 2011

18 Jan 2011

Quote by flower411
The problem is the question blue....I don't believe in hunting with hounds as I'm sure I've mentioned but if asked the first question I would answer no, because it isn't a good use of police resources...if the hunts look as though they may break the law though it is a necessary use of those resources.
Do I think animal rights activists should be allowed to take the law into their own hands ...no,but I know that sometimes they will and I know that sometimes it will be the right thing to do.
Loaded questions give distorted results...I believe that if the question was "do you believe that the law against hunting with hounds should be repealed"most people in this country would say no....I also believe that if I was careful about where I got my sample from I could get the exact opposite answer.I think you should try to find a less obviously biased poll .....this one proves only that the pollsters knew how to get the answer they wanted

And I think most people couldn`t care less. It`s just a bunch of violent townie agitators with nothing better to do than simply trying to destroy something they don`t understand.
And don`t start spouting about democracy and the law ! You believe there is no democracy in this country and I agree with you, that`s why we have stupid laws that endanger peoples ability to make a living. Imagine the countryside alliance taking the route of the students when they don`t agree with the rules ......there really would be blood on the streets then .....but that won`t happen because the majority of them are law abiding citizens and will stay within the law rather than rampaging through the streets like spoilt little brats.
I think you'll find that I've already stated that I believe in democracy...I also believe in the rule of law....I believe that anyone rioting runs the risk of arrest and prosecution, I have no problem with this (I am not an anarchist) I also believe that sometimes that risk is one worth taking....Given that I believe in democracy and that I also believe that the majority of this country are against hunting with hounds it would seem to me there is no conflict between any of the views I've expressed

19 Jan 2011

Here is an interesting poll
Do you believe the Hunting Act will be repealed by the coalition government?

19 Jan 2011

Quote by Bluefish2009
Here is an interesting poll
Do you believe the Hunting Act will be repealed by the coalition government?

First of all blue we have to remember that the readership of ...is going to be 99% country folk !! So we have to accept that the actual poll is totally biased and in no way reflects the views of the country as a whole.
Secondly....most accept that the majority of people are happy with the ban. So do you think a coalition government that is already highly unpopular, would risk going against the grain on something, that frankly is only of interest to a small number of people. There are far more pressing issues for this government to worry about.
so in reply...no way will they repeal the ban .

19 Jan 2011

Quote by deancannock
Here is an interesting poll
Do you believe the Hunting Act will be repealed by the coalition government?

First of all blue we have to remember that the readership of ...is going to be 99% country folk !! So we have to accept that the actual poll is totally biased and in no way reflects the views of the country as a whole.
Secondly....most accept that the majority of people are happy with the ban. So do you think a coalition government that is already highly unpopular, would risk going against the grain on something, that frankly is only of interest to a small number of people. There are far more pressing issues for this government to worry about.
so in reply...no way will they repeal the ban .
Do you really believe the law to be any good though? we have just had the 3rd conviction of a registered hunt since 2005! Yet fox hunting continues, not 1 foxes life has been saved?
The Hunting Act carries a maximum fine of £5000 which gives it the same status
as a minor road traffic violation. dunno

19 Jan 2011

Quote by flower411
The problem is the question blue....I don't believe in hunting with hounds as I'm sure I've mentioned but if asked the first question I would answer no, because it isn't a good use of police resources...if the hunts look as though they may break the law though it is a necessary use of those resources.
Do I think animal rights activists should be allowed to take the law into their own hands ...no,but I know that sometimes they will and I know that sometimes it will be the right thing to do.
Loaded questions give distorted results...I believe that if the question was "do you believe that the law against hunting with hounds should be repealed"most people in this country would say no....I also believe that if I was careful about where I got my sample from I could get the exact opposite answer.I think you should try to find a less obviously biased poll .....this one proves only that the pollsters knew how to get the answer they wanted

And I think most people couldn`t care less. It`s just a bunch of violent townie agitators with nothing better to do than simply trying to destroy something they don`t understand.
And don`t start spouting about democracy and the law ! You believe there is no democracy in this country and I agree with you, that`s why we have stupid laws that endanger peoples ability to make a living. Imagine the countryside alliance taking the route of the students when they don`t agree with the rules ......there really would be blood on the streets then .....but that won`t happen because the majority of them are law abiding citizens and will stay within the law rather than rampaging through the streets like spoilt little brats.
I think you'll find that I've already stated that I believe in democracy...I also believe in the rule of law....I believe that anyone rioting runs the risk of arrest and prosecution, I have no problem with this (I am not an anarchist) I also believe that sometimes that risk is one worth taking....Given that I believe in democracy and that I also believe that the majority of this country are against hunting with hounds it would seem to me there is no conflict between any of the views I've expressed
I`ve absolutely no doubt you could convince yourself of anything you want yourself to believe .......
Trouble is ...
There are other people looking at what you say who can see the contradictions.
Please enlighten me ??

30 Jan 2011

Little old news but good news, and common sense for the hunting folk Of Northern Ireland lol

Long may it continue :lol:

13 Feb 2011

What ever the out come may be, at least the Prime Minister is going to keep his promise.

15 Sep 2011

I snipped this from another thread, hope you dont mind

Quote by starlightcouple
i was glad when the hunting ban came into force, as i hate any kind of animal cruelty.

I would be happy to debate the cruelty issues that you hate within hunting Star, if you would like to high light the areas you feel may involve cruelty, I will do my best to alleviate those fears for you lol

15 Sep 2011

Quote by Bluefish2009
I snipped this from another thread, hope you dont mind

i was glad when the hunting ban came into force, as i hate any kind of animal cruelty.

I would be happy to debate the cruelty issues that you hate within hunting Star, if you would like to high light the areas you feel may involve cruelty, I will do my best to alleviate those fears for you lol

ok then bluefish can you e3xplain this to me please.

i found another one of dogs ripping chunks out of the fox but thought it to horrid to post on here.
if you think that sending dogs out to catch and kill a fox and often rip it to pieces is all part of the hunting fun, then i reely do not want to discuss it with you.
it is horrid and cruel and i am glad it is banned and i hope it remains so forever.
i warn others about watching this videao as it contains reely horrible scenes.
still i am sure that the hunting fratenity think it is just ever such super fun. feck how i wish i could set my dogs on one of those horrid peeple.

16 Sep 2011

Quote by starlightcouple
ok then bluefish can you e3xplain this to me please.

i found another one of dogs ripping chunks out of the fox but thought it to horrid to post on here.
if you think that sending dogs out to catch and kill a fox and often rip it to pieces is all part of the hunting fun, then i reely do not want to discuss it with you.
it is horrid and cruel and i am glad it is banned and i hope it remains so forever.
i warn others about watching this videao as it contains reely horrible scenes.
still i am sure that the hunting fratenity think it is just ever such super fun. feck how i wish i could set my dogs on one of those horrid peeple.

I am glad you have decided to debate this subject, I will do my utmost to keep my replies factual and free from emotions.
Thank you for the link, as I am not a member of youtube, I could not view it, however I suspect it not very different from the following video;

Our countryside, like it or not, is no longer a free and natural wild place any more, it is a man managed environment where farmers and the like, have to be pro-active in there farming methods. So many look at the countryside and see this idyllic place where all the animals live in harmony, this could not be further from the truth, it is a hard and cruel place where animals hunt, kill, and compete with each other.
The main reasoning behind hunting with hounds is not for the "fun" as you put it, it is to serve a purpose. Farmers have protected there herds and flocks from predation for many thousands of years, and people finding this distasteful will not stop it. I will talk more about the "Fun" of hunting that you mention later.
With this undeniable fact that farmers will protect there flocks and herds from the fox established, what we must decide upon is the best method of control. For me the best way, and most logical way of fox control must be to mimic nature as closely as possible. The way that most mimic’s nature is hunting with hounds. Many will say that the chase is cruel, I see no justification in this view, I do not believe there is a clear thought process where the fox or any other hunted animal becomes terrified, this is humans putting there emotions into animals heads. It is a natural process that has existed for millennia, in which predators remove weaker animals, thereby leaving a healthier quarry population. Hunting with hounds is selective, it will take the weak, sick and injured and almost always the healthy will escape. An important fact to point out at this stage, is the most troublesome foxes are the old, sick, or injured, often displaced from there hunting grounds by younger fitter animals. A troublesome fox can be tracked from his kill and dispatched by the hounds. There is no other method of control that can actually track the rouge fox from its ill gotten gains and deal with the problem in this manner. This to me is far better than having a marksman in to shoot dozens of foxes in the area until they get the right one.
Regarding the chase, you may find this link enlightening, written by veterinarian Katie Colvile.

You say you are pleased that hunting has been banned, for me this is short sighted view. You see the banning of hunting has not, and will not save a single fox, it only changes the method of control used. People like me who live closely with the countryside, now have to see, and live, with the other methods of control, which are much more indiscriminate and at times far more cruel. I do not know if you have ever seen a fox stuck in a snare or its results, but if you have, you will know it’s far more horrific than any footage you will find on hunting with hounds. For the record, a fox will pull on the caught limb, and if left long enough will gnaw at it until it removes its own limb. A slow and miserable death will follow.
I am not sure what your video shows, but what I can say is, that almost always, the kill is quick, and clean, what happens to the corpse after this time is hardly relevant.
The majority of hunting people do care about animals and are not the blood thirsty folk portrayed by anti hunt propaganda. I know hunting people and they do so much to care for the countryside and its animals within. Out of interest, the very first animal welfare law anywhere in the world was championed by a fox hunter!
Regarding the "fun" as you put it, I would guess that most Huntsmen enjoy job satisfaction, just as any pest control officer may get from there job also. The hunt followers are there for a social event and a jolly good ride on there horses. Again this has little bearing on the job at hand.
Hunting with hounds is selective and none wounding, the fox will always, either die quickly, or live.
As for the hunting act its self, it does little or nothing for animal welfare, in fact in my view it hinders animal welfare. A Huntsman from the Quantock staghounds was found guilty of offences while trying to hunt an injured dear as quickly as possible. His crime? He used three hounds instead of the legal two as required under this ridiculous law.
• It is legal to chase wild mammals out of cover using dogs as long as only two dogs are used and “reasonable steps” are taken to ensure the animal is shot.
• It is illegal to use three hounds to flush out an animal and a second offence is committed if there is no intention to shoot it.
• It legal to use a terrier underground to flush out a fox and kill it in order to protect birds to be shot for sport – e.g. pheasants.
• It is illegal to use exactly the same method to protect farm livestock or a rare species.
• It is legal to hunt a rabbit with dogs.
• It is illegal to hunt a hare with dogs.
• It is legal to hunt a hare that has already been shot and wounded.
• It is illegal to hunt a fox that has already been shot and wounded.
• It is legal to hunt a rat with dogs.
• It is illegal to hunt a mouse with dog.
I feel I should explain at this stage that I do not defend hunting through some misplaced sense of loyalty, I do not hunt, but through my close bound with the country side I feel with my heart it is the best way. I was born in the heart of Dorset. My Grandfather was a farier, this meant I grew up around race horses and hunting horses and general country folk. Shooting, hunting and fishing were a way of life, they all put food on our table, ethical food at that, some thing that many strive to achieve in this modern world and fail at miserably.
I have debated this subject so many times, in so many places, I never expect to change any ones mind, all I ever hope for is that people may see the other side and perhaps soften there view on this emotive subject just a little.

16 Sep 2011

you have convinced yourself bluefish but sadly i feel you will not convince many others.
i would rather a fox was shot in the head if that is what is needed, than a load of dogs chasing it and then cornering it , the animal full of fear, and then it is ripped apart.
is that reely where we are at in 2011? to go hunting for foxes using a very lame and weak excuse about culling them to protect the farmers land and there flocks?
sorry i do not fall for that argument. it is purely based on peeple who think it is fine and dandy to hunt a wild animal in this way. the fox has as much right to roam the countryside as anyone/or anything else has that same right.
who has the right to say they cannot roam free and must die? you? the huntsman?
sorry bluefish but i think the word barbaric is the best way to sum up this medievil practise.
the reeson you could not view that video is that it is for adult content only as the contents are so horrific.
in my eyes the fox has more right to be in the country side than the very peeple who would hunt it and kill it.
sport? no barbaric and outdated.
the peeple who profit from these hunts i hope they are suffering financially by the ban.

16 Sep 2011

The hunts grow and the fines are paltry. There is only a ban in name...............
...............so who really won
Dave_Notts

16 Sep 2011

Quote by Dave__Notts
The hunts grow and the fines are paltry. There is only a ban in name...............
...............so who really won
Dave_Notts

the foxes who without the ban would now be dead.

16 Sep 2011

Quote by starlightcouple
The hunts grow and the fines are paltry. There is only a ban in name...............
...............so who really won
Dave_Notts

the foxes who without the ban would now be dead.
None have been saved, that is what Dave has just said

16 Sep 2011

Quote by starlightcouple
The hunts grow and the fines are paltry. There is only a ban in name...............
...............so who really won
Dave_Notts

the foxes who without the ban would now be dead.
If you believe more foxes are alive now then you believe it
Dave_Notts

17 Sep 2011

Quote by starlightcouple
the fox has as much right to roam the countryside as anyone/or anything else has that same right.
who has the right to say they cannot roam free and must die? you?

I would ask, are we limiting this just to foxes? Let us expand your thoughts. There are many animals culled to protect crops and stock, from the smallest of insect killed in there millions with insecticide, which has a massive effect on song birds.
We also have pigeons, rooks, crows, to name just a few birds.
Then we have rabbits, squirrels, hares, rats, and possibly even badgers to name just a few land based animals.
Who has the right to say they cannot roam free and must die?
What about the animals we eat? Sheep, cows, pigs, and chickens. Or the milking cows, the egg laying chickens?
Who has the right to say they cannot roam free and must die? You?
Are you really sure that you eat ethically enough to ensure that through your actions NO animals are being subjected to barbaric practices. Very, very few do

17 Sep 2011

Quote by Bluefish2009
Then we have rabbits, squirrels, hares, rats, and possibly even badgers to name just a few land based animals.
Who has the right to say they cannot roam free and must die?

The government does. It is in legislation that in England all landowners have a duty to exterminate rabbits wink

Dave_Notts

18 Sep 2011

Quote by Dave__Notts
Then we have rabbits, squirrels, hares, rats, and possibly even badgers to name just a few land based animals.
Who has the right to say they cannot roam free and must die?

The government does. It is in legislation that in England all landowners have a duty to exterminate rabbits wink

Dave_Notts

Looks barbaric to me Dave

18 Sep 2011

I said it was law to exterminate. The law doesn't state how, but it may state how not to.
The debate on whether it is right or wrong is another. wink

Dave_Notts

19 Sep 2011

I cant see the hunting with dogs act being repealed......too many politically correct tree huggers in politics.
The hunting with dogs act has only stopped the law abiding packs/huntsmen, it has not stopped any pikey scumbag from continuing to run numerous long dogs on hares/deer/fox for their 'sport'.
I, for my part, will continue to despatch in excess of 150 foxes and several hundred rabbits per year as well as numerous deer.

20 Sep 2011

Arse

22 Sep 2011

Quote by Staggerlee_BB
Arse

Is this a technical term?

22 Sep 2011

Quote by Bluefish2009
Arse

Is this a technical term?
A footballing term, when used with 'n' and Wenger I believe...

22 Sep 2011

If a Fox or any other similar sized (or less)animal runs out in front of my vehicle then tough. It gets hit.
I won't try to swerve as that might cause me to lose control of my vehicle and cause an accident which might result in injury to myself or other road users. Would i have any feelings for the animal? Yes, Ones of indifference.
Foxes are Vermin, cause a lot of damage and imo, far too prolific.
They should be culled by any and all means.

22 Sep 2011

Quote by goodporking
I cant see the hunting with dogs act being repealed......too many politically correct tree huggers in politics.

I fear you are correct, however I do hope that some day it could happen.
The first thing to remeber is that fox hunting has not actually been banned at all, fox hunting has been changed by the Hunting Act, but it can still carry on legally!

Quote by goodporking
I, for my part, will continue to despatch in excess of 150 foxes and several hundred rabbits per year as well as numerous deer.

From what you say here I would guess that you are more involved in what I would call pest control which can be a vital role, and I fully support you right to do so.
However, I see the role that hunting with hounds performs more as, "wildlife management" the former can mean, killing as many as possible; the latter seeks to maintain a population in a healthy state in numbers that are acceptable to human and other conservation interests.

22 Sep 2011

Quote by Cc_7up
If a Fox or any other similar sized (or less)animal runs out in front of my vehicle then tough. It gets hit.
I won't try to swerve as that might cause me to lose control of my vehicle and cause an accident which might result in injury to myself or other road users. Would i have any feelings for the animal? Yes, Ones of indifference.
Foxes are Vermin, cause a lot of damage and imo, far too prolific.
They should be culled by any and all means.

Firstly, :welcome: to the forum.
I think your first comment regarding not swerving is a sensible one.
However I do feel there are some means of culling I would not condone

23 Sep 2011

Quote by Bluefish2009
From what you say here I would guess that you are more involved in what I would call pest control which can be a vital role, and I fully support you right to do so.

i think cats can be pests, but i cannot cull them as i see fit.

Quote by Bluefish2009
However, I see the role that hunting with hounds performs more as, "wildlife management" the former can mean, killing as many as possible; the latter seeks to maintain a population in a healthy state in numbers that are acceptable to human and other conservation interests.

wildlife management?
aceptable to humans?
what i find unacceptable in many cases are humans. they seek to destroy animals at will. so many animals are facing extinction because of the " human " acts.
i would rather ten foxes be and live in my garden, than ten rioters. shame i cannot cull humans that i feel get on my tits, or annoy my way of life. :twisted:
just for the record though bluefish. i have for the past seven yeers helped the local fox in my neighbours garden to have at least thirteen cubs. i have fed the mother as often as possible and when the cubs have got larger we have fed them as well until they leave there mother. we will continue to do this as do a couple of our neighbours.
we feel that " humans " have no right at all to cull an animal purely because they deem that it upsets with there way of life.
local councils do not cull them anymore and neither should the rest of human kind, and certainly not by a vicious bunch of rabid dogs.
maybe one day the dog will have its day and turn on its masters who train them to kill.

23 Sep 2011

Quote by starlightcouple
i think cats can be pests, but i cannot cull them as i see fit.

Well, actually, if its a feral cat yes you can. Also, Cats have less protection in law than dogs and if, for instance, you run one over you are not obliged to report the matter to police as you are with a dog.

Quote by starlightcouple
wildlife management?

Yes, that is correct, "wildlife Management" We live in an overpopulated island where those that look afrter the countryside have to balance the needs of wildlife with the needs of people.

Quote by starlightcouple
aceptable to humans?
what i find unacceptable in many cases are humans. they seek to destroy animals at will. so many animals are facing extinction because of the " human " acts.
i would rather ten foxes be and live in my garden, than ten rioters. shame i cannot cull humans that i feel get on my tits, or annoy my way of life. :twisted:

Yes humans are destructive, and destroy many animals at will, many for your Sunday Roast, unless you are a vegan of coarse.
I would also rather have foxes in my garden that rioters, common ground at last!

Quote by starlightcouple
just for the record though bluefish. i have for the past seven yeers helped the local fox in my neighbours garden to have at least thirteen cubs. i have fed the mother as often as possible and when the cubs have got larger we have fed them as well until they leave there mother. we will continue to do this as do a couple of our neighbours.
we feel that " humans " have no right at all to cull an animal purely because they deem that it upsets with there way of life.
local councils do not cull them anymore and neither should the rest of human kind, and certainly not by a vicious bunch of rabid dogs.
maybe one day the dog will have its day and turn on its masters who train them to kill.

I also get great joy from foxes, we have more common ground than I thought

23 Sep 2011

Quote by GnV
Arse

Is this a technical term?
A footballing term, when used with 'n' and Wenger I believe...
Now it all becomes clear lol

23 Sep 2011

Quote by starlightcouple
wildlife management?

You may find this will help explain the reasons behind "Wildlife Management"