A memorial is to be built in Staffordshire to honour those KIA in Afghanistan.
I don't like that idea.
Firstly we have memorials in almost every town where ALL those KIA in ALL wars are remembered and honoured, the National Memorial Arboretum, I don't get what that has to do with the army ?
There a some memorials there that I welcome, the memorial to the Merchant Navy, not really represented by the "Unknown Soldier", Royal Air Force Association Remembrance Garden, again not really represented by an "Unknown Soldier" the Armed Forces Memorial, yes that is for all members of the armed services and merchant services that have given their lives for the United Kingdom.
But there are some strange ones there too .......
The Quaker Memorial ?
The Polish Armed Forces Memorial, (what about the French, Norwegians, Dutch, Belgian, Australian, Indian, Nepalese (Ghurkas), Fijian, Irish, New Zealand, Canadian, Greek, Maltese, Gibraltarians, Malayans and all the rest who died in their thousands fighting for or alongside this Nation in many wars.) (The Irish in every war and conflict we have ever participated in). Why haven't we got a memorial to honour ALL nations who fought with us ?
The Stillbirth and Neonatal Death memorial ? (why not a memorial to ALL infant and child deaths ? do we not remember those who die from meningitis, cot death, leukaemia and all those other terrible things ?
The Far East POW memorial, yes I want to remember and honour those men and women but what about the POWs of all conflicts, there has been terrible abuse of POWs throughout our history.
Basra Memorial Wall, what about those KIA all over Iraq, Bosnia, Aden, Korea, The Falkland Islands, Northern Ireland etc.
The Millennium Chapel of Peace ? listed as a memorial, but to what ?
The Children's Woodland (listed as a memorial but actually just a children's play area.
The Parachute Regiment and Airborne Forces Memorial, what about all the other arms of the armed forces ? nothing for the SAS/SBS, Marines, Ghurkas ? all of whom are all special forces (assuming the memorial was to honour the special forces in distinction to the Army in general.)
None of us have to travel far to see a war memorial and pay our respects, to honour those in any particular field of operations such as Afghanistan does smack against the other conflicts somewhat, like those I mention Falklands, Aden, Korea, Bosnia, Iraq etc.
I would think differently if the Memorial Arboretum had a small wall/statue to each and every conflict/service arm etc, I know that would be difficult because there are so many but that is why a National Monument and individual monuments in each town work so well for those who die in conflicts.
As a former soldier I also like the individual monuments in each field of conflict such as the wall in the Falkland Islands, the wall in Basra (which was dismantled and transported to the arboretum.
The other thing I don't like is that the new monument is to be financed by FINES paid by banks ? where did that come from, are they telling us that if they didn't fine banks we would not build a memorial to those we wish to remember and honour ?
Shove the fines into the National Kitty and finance the memorial out of National Funds don't allow the banks to get credit for it and don't imply that we only got it because the banks treated us like crap.
Join the most popular community of UK swingers now
Login
I don't like it
Yea I get that, it is essential, deserved and good that we honour those that have given their lives for us, but so much is missing from a site that is there to honour that, there is a memorial there that is "The Rail Industry Memorial", but where is the Coalminers memorial ? there is the "Shot at Dawn Memorial there, but where is the "Killed in training/test pilots/submariners/explorers/unarmed combatants (medics/stretcher bearers, nurses, doctors" memorial ? where is the memorial to those who died in the blitz, the innocents who died in the troubles in NI, The Police officer who have died doing their duty ? the firemen ?it all seems a bit badly thought out to me.
Yes honour ALL our armed forces but selection ? that's not right, a Paratrooper KIA deserves to be honoured but no more than any other soldier or marine. If he could he would not thank you for singling him out above anyone else.
Yes honour ALL our armed forces but selection ? that's not right, a Paratrooper KIA deserves to be honoured but no more than any other soldier or marine. If he could he would not thank you for singling him out above anyone else.
That is one option, but before I go off contacting my politician I thought I would run it through the forums for discussion, because there have been times when debate has changed my opinion on matters, because sometimes people in forums show me something I had not considered and put forward other solutions/ideas/views that will either reinforce what I think or make me change my mind on things.
That is what forums and discussion is about is it not ?
That is what forums and discussion is about is it not ?
Sex God
The many memorials at the National Memorial Arboretum are put there by organisations that research, fund and provide those memorials. If any are missing (and I agree, many ARE missing) feel free to contact the appropriate organisations and convince them to create one.
It is National because it welcomes memorials from across the nation - not because it is controlled by a central (government) department.
How is the NMA 'NOT' to do with the army?
I have been there - it is a sobering and moving place. The main memorial commemorates the dead from the whole country. These are (usually but not always) also commemorated locally - including our local lad, Wayne Tarbard who was the only man from our village to die in the Falklands Conflict.
Is his death lessened by being commemorated in 2 places? Of course not! What the NMA provides is a gut-wrenching view of the sheer volume of young men and women who have given their lives carrying out their varied roles in conflicts around the world.
But there are other memorials that conceivably also cover the individuals named on the (sickeningly) long lists on the main memorial. Commemorated by service, theater, ship or even civilian company that sent men to war. They link the individuals to their role or manner of loss.
Memorials in local places can be lost - we almost lost the one from the Nestle factory in the neighbouring village when one of the factory buildings was demolished. In Derby the bronze war memorial plaques were stolen by metal thieves. Without a separate record (and these can be lost over time) it is impossible to recreate the lost memorials correctly.
Seriously I can't fathom what your objection is beyond the memorial record at the NMA is incomplete.
It is National because it welcomes memorials from across the nation - not because it is controlled by a central (government) department.
How is the NMA 'NOT' to do with the army?
I have been there - it is a sobering and moving place. The main memorial commemorates the dead from the whole country. These are (usually but not always) also commemorated locally - including our local lad, Wayne Tarbard who was the only man from our village to die in the Falklands Conflict.
Is his death lessened by being commemorated in 2 places? Of course not! What the NMA provides is a gut-wrenching view of the sheer volume of young men and women who have given their lives carrying out their varied roles in conflicts around the world.
But there are other memorials that conceivably also cover the individuals named on the (sickeningly) long lists on the main memorial. Commemorated by service, theater, ship or even civilian company that sent men to war. They link the individuals to their role or manner of loss.
Memorials in local places can be lost - we almost lost the one from the Nestle factory in the neighbouring village when one of the factory buildings was demolished. In Derby the bronze war memorial plaques were stolen by metal thieves. Without a separate record (and these can be lost over time) it is impossible to recreate the lost memorials correctly.
Seriously I can't fathom what your objection is beyond the memorial record at the NMA is incomplete.
and there we have it, discussion, and a new thought that perhaps I was a bit quick off the mark when I heard the news this evening, yes I would like to see more people represented there but understand better now why there are some and not others represented.
I also confess to having never heard of the place until tonight, perhaps the government could do a little more advertising for it during times of thought regarding such matters.
Having now heard of it we will be visiting the arboretum next week to pay our respects.
I still think that financing it with bank fines is a tad short sighted and unnecessary.
As a side note, Wayne was a great bloke who I met a number of times (usually in the Queens) in Aldershot before he sailed south, a good bunch of lads those 9 Squadron Paras.
I also confess to having never heard of the place until tonight, perhaps the government could do a little more advertising for it during times of thought regarding such matters.
Having now heard of it we will be visiting the arboretum next week to pay our respects.
I still think that financing it with bank fines is a tad short sighted and unnecessary.
As a side note, Wayne was a great bloke who I met a number of times (usually in the Queens) in Aldershot before he sailed south, a good bunch of lads those 9 Squadron Paras.
Sex God
Quote by starlightcouple
The valid points that Foxy made could have been found very easily at the click of a mouse on the internet.
But you could say the same about most subjects in this forum.
By Jed posting the above it at least raises awareness of the memorials mentioned, it lets people debate stuff and other valid points get aired.
More bringing together of people to debate stuff surely is better than everyone just holding onto one set of ideas. As demonstrated when the Mosque in York invited in some EDL members for tea and biscuits.
As to the main subject above.
Locally to us is a memorial to seamen killed in the wars. If, by just being there, it encourages one person, hopefully a youngster, to research the conditions those guys sailed under, U-boats, air attack, surface attack, then it will have been worthwhile.
John
Quote by MidsCouple24
Yea I get that, it is essential, deserved and good that we honour those that have given their lives for us, but so much is missing from a site that is there to honour that, there is a memorial there that is "The Rail Industry Memorial", but where is the Coalminers memorial ? there is the "Shot at Dawn Memorial there, but where is the "Killed in training/test pilots/submariners/explorers/unarmed combatants (medics/stretcher bearers, nurses, doctors" memorial ? where is the memorial to those who died in the blitz, the innocents who died in the troubles in NI, The Police officer who have died doing their duty ? the firemen ?it all seems a bit badly thought out to me.
Yes honour ALL our armed forces but selection ? that's not right, a Paratrooper KIA deserves to be honoured but no more than any other soldier or marine. If he could he would not thank you for singling him out above anyone else.
There is a Police Memorial Trust dedicated to police officers that have lost their lives in the course of their duties. It was set up by Michael Winner after the death of WPC Yvonne Fletcher. I'm sure some of the others that you list will have their own memorials if you care to look for them.
Well here is a memorial Mids that I am sure will meet with your approval, as it most certainly does with me.
A memorial wall inscribed with the 444 names of British heroes killed in Afghanistan will be built with cash from bankers fines.
The project at the National Arboretum in Staffs will get from Libor rate-rigging penalties. :thumbup:
Sounds like one of the best ideas I have ever heard of, the only shame is the amount of money. I would like to see the fines raised to billions of pounds, that could be divided up amongst communities to better those communities.
Now what a memorial eh Mids?
A memorial wall inscribed with the 444 names of British heroes killed in Afghanistan will be built with cash from bankers fines.
The project at the National Arboretum in Staffs will get from Libor rate-rigging penalties. :thumbup:
Sounds like one of the best ideas I have ever heard of, the only shame is the amount of money. I would like to see the fines raised to billions of pounds, that could be divided up amongst communities to better those communities.
Now what a memorial eh Mids?
Quote by starlightcouple
Well here is a memorial Mids that I am sure will meet with your approval, as it most certainly does with me.
A memorial wall inscribed with the 444 names of British heroes killed in Afghanistan will be built with cash from bankers fines.
The project at the National Arboretum in Staffs will get from Libor rate-rigging penalties. :thumbup:
Sounds like one of the best ideas I have ever heard of, the only shame is the amount of money. I would like to see the fines raised to billions of pounds, that could be divided up amongst communities to better those communities.
Now what a memorial eh Mids?
You really have lost the plot haven't you, this whole thread is based on exactly what you say in this post, what is your point.
And speaking of point the last thread you opened in the forums was about the Labour Party recruiting immigrants to come and work in this country, why did you post that, if as your earlier statement says, you believe we should not posts our gripes in the forums, we should contact our MP's, why did you post that, what was the point, why did you not write to your MP to complain ?
Was your statement just because it was me that started the thread or do you believe that you are the only person who is entitled to start discussion threads ?
Sex God
Quote by MidsCouple24
I also confess to having never heard of the place until tonight, perhaps the government could do a little more advertising for it during times of thought regarding such matters.
Having now heard of it we will be visiting the arboretum next week to pay our respects.
I can seriously recommend a visit - it's a lovely place. Excellent tea-room too.
In our village we are creating a Memory Walk that has trees with plaques for each man (from the village of course) who died in WW1, WW2 and the Wayne from the Falklands. It was triggered by that moron Cameron's edict that Parish Councils had to mark the 100 anniversary of WW1 but we decided it was a good idea anyway as our memorial is inaccurate and in the neighbouring village church (long story).
Thank goodness only 25 trees are needed. But there is room for more.
It's not meant to replace the 'official' records but to act as a local focal point for people to enjoy a walk or pause and think about the losses in conflict. We're also writing a book called 'A village at war' which talks about the men as they related to the village and their families and less about the fighting. We wanted to learn about and share the human face of such vast international events.
Quote by Max777
Yea I get that, it is essential, deserved and good that we honour those that have given their lives for us, but so much is missing from a site that is there to honour that, there is a memorial there that is "The Rail Industry Memorial", but where is the Coalminers memorial ? there is the "Shot at Dawn Memorial there, but where is the "Killed in training/test pilots/submariners/explorers/unarmed combatants (medics/stretcher bearers, nurses, doctors" memorial ? where is the memorial to those who died in the blitz, the innocents who died in the troubles in NI, The Police officer who have died doing their duty ? the firemen ?it all seems a bit badly thought out to me.
Yes honour ALL our armed forces but selection ? that's not right, a Paratrooper KIA deserves to be honoured but no more than any other soldier or marine. If he could he would not thank you for singling him out above anyone else.
There is a Police Memorial Trust dedicated to police officers that have lost their lives in the course of their duties. It was set up by Michael Winner after the death of WPC Yvonne Fletcher. I'm sure some of the others that you list will have their own memorials if you care to look for them.
A Police charity memorial trust is a financial thing not a dedicated memorial though and I like the idea of a special place for memorials to all those that deserve them but as I said I think the system as it is dilutes some of those deserving cases and perhaps some more co-ordination would be a better idea.
I did as you suggested and searched the net for a memorial for the Police but could only find financial trusts not a memorial. I found one in London for firefighters and proposals to build one for miners in Wales, so on reflection a National site to locate memorials is a good idea but I do believe that it needs a lot of thought to ensure that no deserving body of brave souls are left out and if your going to have military memorials located there then all conflicts need to be represented not just select ones.
This discussion though, has as I hoped it would be, been enlightening for me and changed my initial views. Thankyou to those who have so far contributed constructive thoughts.
Quote by MidsCouple24
Yea I get that, it is essential, deserved and good that we honour those that have given their lives for us, but so much is missing from a site that is there to honour that, there is a memorial there that is "The Rail Industry Memorial", but where is the Coalminers memorial ? there is the "Shot at Dawn Memorial there, but where is the "Killed in training/test pilots/submariners/explorers/unarmed combatants (medics/stretcher bearers, nurses, doctors" memorial ? where is the memorial to those who died in the blitz, the innocents who died in the troubles in NI, The Police officer who have died doing their duty ? the firemen ?it all seems a bit badly thought out to me.
Yes honour ALL our armed forces but selection ? that's not right, a Paratrooper KIA deserves to be honoured but no more than any other soldier or marine. If he could he would not thank you for singling him out above anyone else.
There is a Police Memorial Trust dedicated to police officers that have lost their lives in the course of their duties. It was set up by Michael Winner after the death of WPC Yvonne Fletcher. I'm sure some of the others that you list will have their own memorials if you care to look for them.
A Police charity memorial trust is a financial thing not a dedicated memorial though and I like the idea of a special place for memorials to all those that deserve them but as I said I think the system as it is dilutes some of those deserving cases and perhaps some more co-ordination would be a better idea.
I did as you suggested and searched the net for a memorial for the Police but could only find financial trusts not a memorial. I found one in London for firefighters and proposals to build one for miners in Wales, so on reflection a National site to locate memorials is a good idea but I do believe that it needs a lot of thought to ensure that no deserving body of brave souls are left out and if your going to have military memorials located there then all conflicts need to be represented not just select ones.
This discussion though, has as I hoped it would be, been enlightening for me and changed my initial views. Thankyou to those who have so far contributed constructive thoughts.
You didn't look very hard.
Quote by foxylady2209
I also confess to having never heard of the place until tonight, perhaps the government could do a little more advertising for it during times of thought regarding such matters.
Having now heard of it we will be visiting the arboretum next week to pay our respects.
I can seriously recommend a visit - it's a lovely place. Excellent tea-room too.
In our village we are creating a Memory Walk that has trees with plaques for each man (from the village of course) who died in WW1, WW2 and the Wayne from the Falklands. It was triggered by that moron Cameron's edict that Parish Councils had to mark the 100 anniversary of WW1 but we decided it was a good idea anyway as our memorial is inaccurate and in the neighbouring village church (long story).
Thank goodness only 25 trees are needed. But there is room for more.
It's not meant to replace the 'official' records but to act as a local focal point for people to enjoy a walk or pause and think about the losses in conflict. We're also writing a book called 'A village at war' which talks about the men as they related to the village and their families and less about the fighting. We wanted to learn about and share the human face of such vast international events.
I love the local memorials and have viewed many over the years when wandering around towns and villages, looking at the names on the plaques, seeing possible many who might have been brothers or fathers and sons, I suppose it would be impossible to list everyone who deserves to be listed on plaques for all conflicts in small towns and that is a shame but understandable and so yes a national memorial site is a good idea, run properly and with more government funding no matter where that funding comes from, there is just no need to boast "we used banking fines to pay for it" are they saying if the bankers didn't do such a bad job the memorial would never have been built ?
The weather is lovely today and had the forecast said that (I did check we would have gone today but there again later this week might be better when it is quieter) but go this week we will.
Thank you Max, I am pleased to see that there is a memorial to Police Officers KIA (killed in action or perhaps KID killed on duty might be more apt) I think the location would better suit if the monument was also located in our National Monument Centre and the more I think about it I would like to see all our monuments located there where we could visit and pay our respects to all those we wish to at one time, perhaps even have an area where we could purchase a token (like the poppy or the candle lit in churches or the ribbons for cancer) with the proceeds going to the trust of your choice.
I am not saying do away with the existing war memorials though and I would not object to anyone erecting additional monuments in their own areas such as at coal mines etc
I am not saying do away with the existing war memorials though and I would not object to anyone erecting additional monuments in their own areas such as at coal mines etc
Quote by MidsCouple24
You really have lost the plot haven't you, this whole thread is based on exactly what you say in this post, what is your point.
And speaking of point the last thread you opened in the forums was about the Labour Party recruiting immigrants to come and work in this country, why did you post that, if as your earlier statement says, you believe we should not posts our gripes in the forums, we should contact our MP's, why did you post that, what was the point, why did you not write to your MP to complain ?
Was your statement just because it was me that started the thread or do you believe that you are the only person who is entitled to start discussion threads ?
As per usual Mids you completely miss the whole point. You then go off on one and end up making silly comments and the forgetting what you have written.
Read what I have written again, but this time slow down a bit.
What is the point of reading anything you write star, you say one thing then say the opposite all the time.
Why are you commenting all on something you say should be handled individually with local MP's ?
Why did you open a thread about Labour and immigration why didn't you just contact your local politician ?
I would add that as I have said my first views have changed, not as a result of complaining to a politician but by listening to my fellow posters in the forums, by considering the views of my peers and looking at it in the way others see it that won't always happen but that is what discussion and forums are for.
Why are you commenting all on something you say should be handled individually with local MP's ?
Why did you open a thread about Labour and immigration why didn't you just contact your local politician ?
I would add that as I have said my first views have changed, not as a result of complaining to a politician but by listening to my fellow posters in the forums, by considering the views of my peers and looking at it in the way others see it that won't always happen but that is what discussion and forums are for.
