The "meat on the hook" that we export or use in the UK fall into two categories, Fit for human consumption and Unfit for human consumption and that is one of the main points here, we do not know as yet if the meat sold fraudulantely would have passed tests for human consumption, there seems to be some worry over that point from bodies and departments responsible for checking such things on our own products.
Sending unchecked meat anywhere would be nearly as bad as not slaughtering meat that MAY have been infected with foot n mouth or BSE and palming it off as consumable by humans, we destroyed any animals that could be infected, we check animals being put into the human food chain, we have no idea at present if such checks were carried out on the meat sold as beef but since it was about profit and fraud it is doubtfull anyone cared.
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I'd eat horse.
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It is not widely known that horsemeat is being thrown away, horsemeat is being used in many forms, for human consumption, in animal feed and other uses.
Horsemeat which cannot be verified as fit for human consumption and processed for that purpose is being destroyed in the same way meat that was "possibly" infected with BSE or Foot n Mouth disease was destroyed for safety reasons, there is a big difference.
The supermarkets are simply taking precautions to ensure that the products they are unsure about are not subsequently passed on to other areas where they may be dangerous.
The meat has been fraudulently introduced into the human food chain probably without the necessary checks that such meat requires, it would be just as criminal to take it out of the boxes and relabel it as horsemeat burgers and give it or sell it for human or even animal consumption without those checks being verified.
In the scale of horsemeat for consumption in any form around the world the amount being destroyed is minimal.
Horsemeat which cannot be verified as fit for human consumption and processed for that purpose is being destroyed in the same way meat that was "possibly" infected with BSE or Foot n Mouth disease was destroyed for safety reasons, there is a big difference.
The supermarkets are simply taking precautions to ensure that the products they are unsure about are not subsequently passed on to other areas where they may be dangerous.
The meat has been fraudulently introduced into the human food chain probably without the necessary checks that such meat requires, it would be just as criminal to take it out of the boxes and relabel it as horsemeat burgers and give it or sell it for human or even animal consumption without those checks being verified.
In the scale of horsemeat for consumption in any form around the world the amount being destroyed is minimal.
Quote by flower411
It is not widely known that horsemeat is being thrown away, horsemeat is being used in many forms, for human consumption, in animal feed and other uses.
Horsemeat which cannot be verified as fit for human consumption and processed for that purpose is being destroyed in the same way meat that was "possibly" infected with BSE or Foot n Mouth disease was destroyed for safety reasons, there is a big difference.
The supermarkets are simply taking precautions to ensure that the products they are unsure about are not subsequently passed on to other areas where they may be dangerous.
The meat has been fraudulently introduced into the human food chain probably without the necessary checks that such meat requires, it would be just as criminal to take it out of the boxes and relabel it as horsemeat burgers and give it or sell it for human or even animal consumption without those checks being verified.
In the scale of horsemeat for consumption in any form around the world the amount being destroyed is minimal.
So horse meat IS being thrown away .
Nobody stated at any time that ALL horse meat was being thrown away !
Just because you`ve gone off at a tangent doesn`t change the fact that I was talking about the horse meat that is being thrown away, not the horse meat that isn`t being thrown away.
NO horsemeat is being thrown away, it is being destroyed for safety reasons, there is a big difference between the two methods of disposal, thrown away means dumped where it could be re-caimed and consumed by humans or animals when nobody knows at this time if it contains anything that would be detriment to it being consumed, to be 100% sure of that you would have to test each batch. That would tie up resources needed at this time to check other products that are still for sale.
The meat being disposed of for safety reasons will be destroyed, probably by fire, it will be impossible for it to be consumed and that is a good thing as was any meat that may or may not have been contaminated by BSE and Foot and Mouth, a safety precaution, over the years far more food has been disposed of for similar reasons and even because on occassions one batch has been found to be contaminated with something, sometimes maliciously sometimes by accident.
Your post implies that we are advocating the dumping of food for the sake of it when there is actually a valid reason for doing so.
Does anyone here remember the early days of the EU and the butter mountains, butter mountains, milk fountains and the like when countries including the UK dumped tons of products simply because they had more than their quota allowed, eventually we started shipping it out to the former USSR. Has anyone heard the complaints from fishermen (fisherpersons) who had to dump tons of edible fish because of quotas (something which is being currently addressed and rectified).
Yes in light of this and for safety reasons I advocate the destruction of these products.
Give me a good and valid argument why you think that this drop in the ocean of meat should be passed on to others for consumption and I will change my mind and support your views, I don't believe your "out of touch" I simply respect your opinion but believe that in this instance you haven't thought through the possible consequences of selling these products relabelled as containing horse. I have given my reasons why I believe it should not.
You are saying that horsemeat IS being thrown away implying wastage.
Findus for example is not throwing away it's lasagne, it has merely withdrawn the items from sale, a decision as to what will become of them has not been made yet.
Even the government is not telling us to throw the products away
David Heath advised consumers to carry on eating meat unless told otherwise.
The Food Standards Agency has asked UK firms to test all processed beef foods, but said it did not "suspect there is any health issue with frozen food".
Environment Secretary Owen Paterson is to hold a summit with heads of meat retailers and suppliers on Saturday.
Food Minister Mr Heath said the government's advice was "exactly that" of the FSA's.
"The FSA says there is no reason to suppose there is a health risk and therefore the advice is to carry on with normal shopping habits until you are told otherwise," he told the BBC.
Personally I believe the products should be destroyed or fully tested because
James Gallagher
Health and science reporter, BBC News
SAYS .......
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Horsemeat itself should be no more dangerous than beef and is eaten in many countries around the world.
However, there is concern around a drug given to horses - known as bute (phenylbutazone) - which is dangerous if taken by humans.
Decades ago it was used as a treatment for gout and arthritis, but it caused a serious blood disorder, aplastic anaemia, in rare cases.
While it was banned for human use, it is still used for animals. However, it is not allowed to enter the human food chain.
Findus has been asked to test for bute in its products.
If people have any of the affected meals lurking in their freezer, they are advised to return them to the store they were purchased from.
and I further believe that the firms should never be permitted to sell the products for gain, at the very most they should sell them at cost or donate them to any organisation that needs them and is willing to accept them. Aldi, Tesco and others may not have known what meat was being used but it is thier job to know and they failed their customers in this respect.
Remember masses of food, drink and consumables are destroyed everyday in the UK because they are fakes, some of the products are sub standard but some are as good as the originals they are copied from or at least not dangerous, I don't hear anyone shouting for them to be re-distributed to the poor and hungry.
Now, you have not come up with a reason why we should not destroy the products so that is all I have to say on this matter, each to their own views, you in this instance have failed to show me I am wrong in my views and obviously vicky verky
Sex God
Quote by flower411
What a a fabulous photo of an old butchers shop blue. Our local butcher where we used to live in the UK before we came here was the exact same layout. The only difference was old John, the butcher wore a white apron which was invariably stained in (presumably) animal blood if only to remind customers of what his stock-in-trade was!
So sad all these old butcher shops are now all but gone in the new sanitised, pasteurised age in which we are compelled to live these days.
Don`t despair !! There are still real reputable butchers and I`m sure some of them will thrive after this little fiasco .
If I went to my butcher and asked for horse I`m sure he would source it for me but I`m pretty certain that he wouldn`t try to sell me horse by pretending it was something else.
Let`s face it I trust him but on top of that any fines incurred for being found out doing otherwise would put him out of business. To Tesco and the other supermarkets any fines will just be a cost to be passed on to their customers.
We are luky to have an outstanding local butcher
Sex God
Businesses are no doubt storing all the possibly affected products until they are declared fit for purpose, or destroyed. However most people do not have the facility to store food indefinitely and also have the space to store food for regular use. The simple fact is that freezers only have so much space, if you are storing possible horse products for weeks or months then where will you put the food you are intending to eat?
I don't have any evidence to produce other than anecdotal. Listening to the Jeremy Vine show on Monday 11 Feb 2013, there were many people calling in or messaging the show saying that they had thrown away various beef products. Not one of them said they had destroyed the food or incinerated it, they simply said they had thrown it away.
On a separate note the 'scandal' has now spread to horse meat being found in It makes you wonder how far the issue has spread. Soups? pate's? sausage rolls? I think this story might run for quite some time yet.
I don't have any evidence to produce other than anecdotal. Listening to the Jeremy Vine show on Monday 11 Feb 2013, there were many people calling in or messaging the show saying that they had thrown away various beef products. Not one of them said they had destroyed the food or incinerated it, they simply said they had thrown it away.
On a separate note the 'scandal' has now spread to horse meat being found in It makes you wonder how far the issue has spread. Soups? pate's? sausage rolls? I think this story might run for quite some time yet.
Quote by Trevaunance
Businesses are no doubt storing all the possibly affected products until they are declared fit for purpose, or destroyed. However most people do not have the facility to store food indefinitely and also have the space to store food for regular use. The simple fact is that freezers only have so much space, if you are storing possible horse products for weeks or months then where will you put the food you are intending to eat?
I don't have any evidence to produce other than anecdotal. Listening to the Jeremy Vine show on Monday 11 Feb 2013, there were many people calling in or messaging the show saying that they had thrown away various beef products. Not one of them said they had destroyed the food or incinerated it, they simply said they had thrown it away.
On a separate note the 'scandal' has now spread to horse meat being found in lamb products. It makes you wonder how far the issue has spread. Soups? pate's? sausage rolls? I think this story might run for quite some time yet.
When third world countries are allowed to produce meat for human consumption, this was always going to be a possibility. It is now obviously more than that, as it is fact and with money supplied by the EU. Experts eh? Don't we just love em?
Quote by flower411
I know people are going to start harping on about Bute entering the food chain but I`d hazard a guess that horses that are being kept to be turned into meat products are unlikely to have been given expensive stuff like Bute !
i think you'd be wrong, Horse meat is generally more expensive than beef and if they're substituting beef with that of a geegee then it's probably substandard or at best just above the level of unfit for human consumption.
Quote by flower411
I know people are going to start harping on about Bute entering the food chain but I`d hazard a guess that horses that are being kept to be turned into meat products are unlikely to have been given expensive stuff like Bute !
Would you take that chance and give that meat from a source such as the Romanian slaughterhouse, and feed your kids with it? You know it is horse meat and you know where it comes from, would you feed your kids with it?
A very simple question just needs a very simple answer. A yes or a no will do. :notes:
Quote by Toots
I know people are going to start harping on about Bute entering the food chain but I`d hazard a guess that horses that are being kept to be turned into meat products are unlikely to have been given expensive stuff like Bute !
i think you'd be wrong, Horse meat is generally more expensive than beef and if they're substituting beef with that of a geegee then it's probably substandard or at best just above the level of unfit for human consumption.
I agree, it is believed that the sudden influx of horsemeat into our food chain on such a scale is a direct result of some Eastern European Countries banning horses and donkeys from roads, this has given the black marketeers of organised crime a chance to purchase the meat very cheaply. But these horses were never bred for the human food chain
Quote by starlightcouple
I know people are going to start harping on about Bute entering the food chain but I`d hazard a guess that horses that are being kept to be turned into meat products are unlikely to have been given expensive stuff like Bute !
Would you take that chance and give that meat from a source such as the Romanian slaughterhouse, and feed your kids with it? You know it is horse meat and you know where it comes from, would you feed your kids with it?
A very simple question just needs a very simple answer. A yes or a no will do. :notes:
From me its a definate no. If they are prepared to lie about what it says on the packet then I would presume the levels of sterility and hygiene of the carcasses is probably suspect.
Quote by flower411
I know people are going to start harping on about Bute entering the food chain but I`d hazard a guess that horses that are being kept to be turned into meat products are unlikely to have been given expensive stuff like Bute !
Would you take that chance and give that meat from a source such as the Romanian slaughterhouse, and feed your kids with it? You know it is horse meat and you know where it comes from, would you feed your kids with it?
A very simple question just needs a very simple answer. A yes or a no will do. :notes:
Yes
I have fed my daughter burgers and ready meals in the past and she has eaten food from McDonalds and Burger King. This is not an everyday occurance and I see no difference whatsoever now that everything I suspected has been shown to be true.
And for your information I have also let her cross the road on her own :scared:
Ah right. So you are prepared to let a child of yours eat possible contaminated meat on purpose? Strange for any parent to openly admit to that.
Quote by starlightcouple
I had a very nice Waitrose British beef ( apparently ) for my dinner tonight.
I have to say it tasted delicious and I cleared my plate. Did it taste like beef? Who knows as it was masked by the pasta and herbs in it, but if I start trying to jump over my garden fence in the morning, I know what I have eaten.
Breaking news announced on SkyNews this evening.
Waitrose now admit that their beef meatballs have been found to contain pork....
good to see Waitrose earlier today shouting on about how they only source from one supplier and how good their standards are when it comes to the beef they sell.
Oh hang on, Waitrose are now saying (in the last 2 hours) some of thier Beef products appear to have pork in them and are closing thier contract with one of thier suppliers
Oh hang on, Waitrose are now saying (in the last 2 hours) some of thier Beef products appear to have pork in them and are closing thier contract with one of thier suppliers
Sex God
I read somewhere that there are five abattoirs in the UK that are licensed to slaughter horses for food. I would assume that very little horse meat is sold in this country, so who do they sell it to? I wonder if we will find that we have actually provided the meat from this country in the first place?
Just as long as the Waitrose Aromatic Half Crispy Duck doesn't turn out to be a House Pigeon, now dat wouldn't be nice and I'd be sad cos it's one of me fav meals As for the various media frenzied hype not going on, it's all hoss shit ...er wait, that might not be so very far from the truth.
Sex God
Interestingly the scandal of British horse meat trade was reported on in at least 2007 according to this article:
Sex God
Quote by GnV
I had a very nice Waitrose British beef ( apparently ) for my dinner tonight.
I have to say it tasted delicious and I cleared my plate. Did it taste like beef? Who knows as it was masked by the pasta and herbs in it, but if I start trying to jump over my garden fence in the morning, I know what I have eaten.
Breaking news announced on SkyNews this evening.
Waitrose now admit that their beef meatballs have been found to contain pork....
No there the dog bollox :lol:
Quote by flower411
I read somewhere that there are five abattoirs in the UK that are licensed to slaughter horses for food. I would assume that very little horse meat is sold in this country, so who do they sell it to? I wonder if we will find that we have actually provided the meat from this country in the first place?
Which does then lend credence to the possibility of Bute entering the food chain !!
Oh my !! we`re all gonna die
And you would still feed it to your kids.
Quote by starlightcouple
I had a very nice Waitrose British beef ( apparently ) for my dinner tonight.
I have to say it tasted delicious and I cleared my plate. Did it taste like beef? Who knows as it was masked by the pasta and herbs in it, but if I start trying to jump over my garden fence in the morning, I know what I have eaten.
Breaking news announced on SkyNews this evening.
Quote by GnV
Waitrose now admit that their beef meatballs have been found to contain pork....
Luckily GnV I had Lasagna and not meatballs..........PHEW. :lol:
Sex God
Horse has been passed of as beef, lamb and pork so far. At the moment it doesn't seem to matter what we have eaten, there is a increasing chance we have unwittingly eaten horse.
Quote by flower411
Star ....I am aware of what I do in the upbringing of my daughter . There are risks in life and the worst thing we could do is wrap our children in cotton wool trying to protect them from a world that doesn`t care .
I weigh risk against experience and I look at odds .....
I am aware of the mirriad of threats that she will face in life and I do my best to protect and perpare her for life without me ...
Can you say the same ?
Of course I can say the same but as a responsible parent I would try and alleviate as many risks as possible. I would not sit idly by and watch one of my kids make a mistake that I could prevent them from making, just so I can feel proud I have allowed them to find that mistake out for themselves. That in my eyes would be foolish and foolhardy of me, and more than anything not something many parents would do.
Nor would I idly sit by and allow them to eat horse that had come from an unreliable source as we are now finding out, and that meat may well contain chemicals harmful to humans. Apart from yourself I would doubt many parents would sit by knowing what we now know, and watch their kids eat it, even though it would mean wrapping them back up in that cotton wool. I would rather take away that possible risk that now could be there. We know for sure that there is in some cases 100% horse meat in products clearly labelled as being beef. We also know that this meat is coming from a very unreliable source in a third world country that is Romania. It would be bloody downright foolish and seriously irresponsible to eat it let alone allow your kids to. This is the tip of a nasty iceberg, and God knows where it will end.
I as a parent try and teach my kids about the risks of all kinds of things, and I would never sit back and watch them openly make one if I could in any way prevent it. Nor would I suspect many others would either.
Sex God
Quote by Rogue_Trader
As I stated earlier in this thread we export 100,000 horse carcasses per year, slaughtered over here, as we don't allow the export of live animals.
Sorry to say this rogue, but you are wrong. Live animals are currently being exported for slaughter through Ramsgate and Ipswich, as well as via Scotland and Northern Ireland.
Quote by Rogue_Trader
As I stated earlier in this thread we export 100,000 horse carcasses per year, slaughtered over here, as we don't allow the export of live animals.
Yes we saw what you said but I for one don't understand the relevance of your statement, the horses we export are for the horsemeat export market, they are passed as either fit for human consumption or unfit for human consumption and sold as that for whatever market the company that buys them decides what he wants them for. those sold for human consumption have a record of thier drug abuse (albeit administered by a vet without the horses consent)
Quote by Trevaunance
As I stated earlier in this thread we export 100,000 horse carcasses per year, slaughtered over here, as we don't allow the export of live animals.
Sorry to say this rogue, but you are wrong. Live animals are currently being exported for slaughter through Ramsgate and Ipswich, as well as via Scotland and Northern Ireland.
My mistake Trev, majority of horses are exported on the hook.
Quote by MidsCouple24
As I stated earlier in this thread we export 100,000 horse carcasses per year, slaughtered over here, as we don't allow the export of live animals.
Yes we saw what you said but I for one don't understand the relevance of your statement, the horses we export are for the horsemeat export market, they are passed as either fit for human consumption or unfit for human consumption and sold as that for whatever market the company that buys them decides what he wants them for. those sold for human consumption have a record of thier drug abuse (albeit administered by a vet without the horses consent)
You don't understand it because it was taken out of context, it was in answer to a post that was talking about 3rd world countries only produce slaughtered horses for human consumption, which isn't true.
