Seem like such a good idea for all sorts of reasons.
Can someone remind me why the whole idea got shelved?
Sex God
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Identity cards
The basic idea is a good one, though it is a very debateable subject.
Anyone who has had an ID card through employment will surely agree that the basic idea is good.
For example HM Forces personnel have always had ID cards which (certainly in my day) were very acceptable, I have used mine as a cheque guarantee card for instance.
The big objection to the Government plans as were was the amount of information they wanted them to contain. A Forces ID simply contained Name, Rank and Number, Blood Group, DoB and Nationality, Photograph and that to me is enough Mr xxxxxxx xxxxxxx, DoB, Blood Group (handy during an accident but not essential) and Nationality would be sufficient though any allergies or medical conditions (diabetes etc) could also be usefull information, National Insurance Number would also be helpfull.
There is no need for address details, it would be usefull but some people do move around a lot and this could mean the extra logistics making it financially impossible.
From what I gathered when it was being discussed the Government wanted to put even more details on such as Bank Details etc.
The second big objection was the cost factor to the owner, I think I recall fees of £70+ being banded around. Personally I think the initial issue should be nominal such as £10 or free with subsequent lost/damaged cards being charged for.
But I do wonder if we need them at all, when I lived abroad I was required to carry my passport which served me well as an Identity Card, I had to produce it just to book into a hotel, why can't we make possession of a Passport mandatory, if not for UK Citizens for anyone who is not a UK Citizen and make it a criminal offence not to produce it when ordered to by Government enforcement Officers (Police, Home Office officials such as Immigration officers etc).
I do not know what the current stance is from Government on what is going to happen
Anyone who has had an ID card through employment will surely agree that the basic idea is good.
For example HM Forces personnel have always had ID cards which (certainly in my day) were very acceptable, I have used mine as a cheque guarantee card for instance.
The big objection to the Government plans as were was the amount of information they wanted them to contain. A Forces ID simply contained Name, Rank and Number, Blood Group, DoB and Nationality, Photograph and that to me is enough Mr xxxxxxx xxxxxxx, DoB, Blood Group (handy during an accident but not essential) and Nationality would be sufficient though any allergies or medical conditions (diabetes etc) could also be usefull information, National Insurance Number would also be helpfull.
There is no need for address details, it would be usefull but some people do move around a lot and this could mean the extra logistics making it financially impossible.
From what I gathered when it was being discussed the Government wanted to put even more details on such as Bank Details etc.
The second big objection was the cost factor to the owner, I think I recall fees of £70+ being banded around. Personally I think the initial issue should be nominal such as £10 or free with subsequent lost/damaged cards being charged for.
But I do wonder if we need them at all, when I lived abroad I was required to carry my passport which served me well as an Identity Card, I had to produce it just to book into a hotel, why can't we make possession of a Passport mandatory, if not for UK Citizens for anyone who is not a UK Citizen and make it a criminal offence not to produce it when ordered to by Government enforcement Officers (Police, Home Office officials such as Immigration officers etc).
I do not know what the current stance is from Government on what is going to happen
Sex God
A credit card sized identity card is much easier to carry around than a passport and could be used instead of a passport in Europe.
Also
1) It could stop at a stroke under age drinking in pubs
2) Verify ID for NHS treatment
3) Facilitate credit checking
I am struggling to understand why it got stopped. Seems like a no brainer - if people are happy to have a passport what is the problem with an ID card? Parrticularly if it meant that you would not necessarily need a passport if your travel was limited to Europe.
Also
1) It could stop at a stroke under age drinking in pubs
2) Verify ID for NHS treatment
3) Facilitate credit checking
I am struggling to understand why it got stopped. Seems like a no brainer - if people are happy to have a passport what is the problem with an ID card? Parrticularly if it meant that you would not necessarily need a passport if your travel was limited to Europe.
As I said, the problem was with the debate as to exactly what information was going to be stored on te ID Card, only basics to establish age and identity are really needed, medical allergies/illnesses like diabetes are a bonus but the government were going over the top at least in the discussions wanting everything that could be stored like the examples I said, bank detials, employment details (coy name etc) address and more, this was the stumbling block.
I agree that it would help with age recognition, I agree it would help with other things but NHS treatment, surely anybody legally in the UK is entitled to treatment and we should not turn anybody away or prevent anyone even seeking treatment because they might be found out to be illegal ? especially as this might prevent us finding an epedemic capable disease until it is too late to control. (possible with an illegal immigrant having just arrived from abroad)
The thing is it would be a useless enterprise unless it was an arrestable offence with an instant fine for being unable to produce your ID unless you had already reported it lost/damaged/stolen to the Police.
There was also some discussion about credit card fraudsters adding ID card fraud to their enterprise, an ID card can be a powerfull tool as any HM Forces or ex forces person would attest to.
On a lighter note marital status was another thing that was discussed as a item that would be included on the card ....... watch it boys n girls we will be demanding a pic of your ID card in your profile soon finding all those fakes online.
I agree that it would help with age recognition, I agree it would help with other things but NHS treatment, surely anybody legally in the UK is entitled to treatment and we should not turn anybody away or prevent anyone even seeking treatment because they might be found out to be illegal ? especially as this might prevent us finding an epedemic capable disease until it is too late to control. (possible with an illegal immigrant having just arrived from abroad)
The thing is it would be a useless enterprise unless it was an arrestable offence with an instant fine for being unable to produce your ID unless you had already reported it lost/damaged/stolen to the Police.
There was also some discussion about credit card fraudsters adding ID card fraud to their enterprise, an ID card can be a powerfull tool as any HM Forces or ex forces person would attest to.
On a lighter note marital status was another thing that was discussed as a item that would be included on the card ....... watch it boys n girls we will be demanding a pic of your ID card in your profile soon finding all those fakes online.
Waste of time and money.
I have just shelved out £20 to have my driving license updated, which needs to be done every ten years. Another flipping con that goes along side passports.
So I have a passport and a driving license both of which have my picture on them, and then be expected to fork out another 70 odd quid? Never would have had to worry about ID cards 20 years ago.:notes:
I have just shelved out £20 to have my driving license updated, which needs to be done every ten years. Another flipping con that goes along side passports.
So I have a passport and a driving license both of which have my picture on them, and then be expected to fork out another 70 odd quid? Never would have had to worry about ID cards 20 years ago.:notes:
My main objections:
# cost, £70ea is a lot of money especially for larger families, but if you already have a passport why not offer a reduced rate of say £20 as they have already proved who you are
# & the biggy, who has access to the database. I suspect the securiy services already have access to the information so who else gets access. As an example the proposed Communications Data Bill will require all ISP and mobile phone operators to keep records of all communications (this thread and every other bit of data kept in its entirety for at least 12 months). Access would be provided to I think it was six groups covering various police and security services and the Inland Revenue. Who else could argue that they need access to the identity database: NHS, doctors, banks, retailers, the media, airport admin ?
# cost, £70ea is a lot of money especially for larger families, but if you already have a passport why not offer a reduced rate of say £20 as they have already proved who you are
# & the biggy, who has access to the database. I suspect the securiy services already have access to the information so who else gets access. As an example the proposed Communications Data Bill will require all ISP and mobile phone operators to keep records of all communications (this thread and every other bit of data kept in its entirety for at least 12 months). Access would be provided to I think it was six groups covering various police and security services and the Inland Revenue. Who else could argue that they need access to the identity database: NHS, doctors, banks, retailers, the media, airport admin ?
Sex God
Quote by Too Hot
A credit card sized identity card is much easier to carry around than a passport and could be used instead of a passport in Europe.
Also
1) It could stop at a stroke under age drinking in pubs
current driving new type licence accepted
2) Verify ID for NHS treatment
current driving new type licence accepted
3) Facilitate credit checking
current driving new type licence acceptable
I am struggling to understand why it got stopped. Seems like a no brainer - if people are happy to have a passport what is the problem with an ID card? Parrticularly if it meant that you would not necessarily need a passport if your travel was limited to Europe.
i think you will find the new type driving licence is accepted as id in most places
Quote by GnV
They're not now required because everyone in the UK is an honest and upright citizen, innit.
How dare people not respect that and demand another piece of identity
Besides, after the UK votes to leave Europe, they won't be of any use anyway beyond the shores of little England.
GnV.....do you know why the identity cards were being brought in at one point? What was the reason for them? As an Englishman born and bred here, why the hell would I need one?
Seriously do you know the reason?
The problem with the driving licence as a valid form of ID is that not everyone has one, it is as simple as that and the same problem applies to Passports, not everyone has one.
It would be compulsory to have the new ID Card for everyone residing in the UK if it is ever approved.
Of course you could just make Passports compulsory.
You may at this time travel all over the EU but you still have to have a passport to prove your identity when doing so.
As for the "I am British born and bred argument" can you prove that if you do not have a passport, many can't because they don't.
I think a big part of the want/need for an ID card is to find the illegal immigrants residing here and that is a large number of people.
With the abilities of the fraudsters it would mean a whole system being deplyed as we have with road tax, car insurance etc, I mean a National database quickly accessible like the one we have for car insurance or car ownership, that way when your asked to produce your ID to a Government officer (Police Officer, Immigration etc) they can immediately radio through for a P Check to see if the information is genuine or the card reported lost or stolen.
As I said earlier it would also be useless if it was not mandatory by law to carry it and produce it when asked by someone who has the right to ask to see it. If asked in a pub for it you can say no but of course you would not be served alcohol.
Just producing it to claim benefits would save enough funds to pay for a free issue to everyone entitled to it. If you doubt that watch the series "saints and sinners" on BBC 1 to see how many claim multiple benefits in multiple names from multiple addresses (todays case was a woman who had claimed benefits including housing benefits, council tax and single parent allowances for 13 years whilst living with her husband who had returned to her after being released from Prison, her fraudulent claim was worth over £140,000 and she was sentanced to 16 months in prison (would serve less than 8 months). Had they both been issued ID cards the address could have been geared to "flag up" on a DHSS computor.
There was the case last week of a woman claiming the same benefits as the woman above whilst renting her home from her husband, thay also found that two of their children also rented houses from their father but lived at another family home where they ALL lived and sub let the homes for which they were all recieving housing benefit and council tax payments.
I support the issue of ID cards IF ......
The cost is affordable to everyone.
The information on it is only that which is absolutely necessary or voluntarily supplied such as information that would help in a medical emergency.
It is compulsory by law to carry it with on the spot fines or imprisonment until produced the penalty for not carrying it otherwise it is a waste of time.
It would be compulsory to have the new ID Card for everyone residing in the UK if it is ever approved.
Of course you could just make Passports compulsory.
You may at this time travel all over the EU but you still have to have a passport to prove your identity when doing so.
As for the "I am British born and bred argument" can you prove that if you do not have a passport, many can't because they don't.
I think a big part of the want/need for an ID card is to find the illegal immigrants residing here and that is a large number of people.
With the abilities of the fraudsters it would mean a whole system being deplyed as we have with road tax, car insurance etc, I mean a National database quickly accessible like the one we have for car insurance or car ownership, that way when your asked to produce your ID to a Government officer (Police Officer, Immigration etc) they can immediately radio through for a P Check to see if the information is genuine or the card reported lost or stolen.
As I said earlier it would also be useless if it was not mandatory by law to carry it and produce it when asked by someone who has the right to ask to see it. If asked in a pub for it you can say no but of course you would not be served alcohol.
Just producing it to claim benefits would save enough funds to pay for a free issue to everyone entitled to it. If you doubt that watch the series "saints and sinners" on BBC 1 to see how many claim multiple benefits in multiple names from multiple addresses (todays case was a woman who had claimed benefits including housing benefits, council tax and single parent allowances for 13 years whilst living with her husband who had returned to her after being released from Prison, her fraudulent claim was worth over £140,000 and she was sentanced to 16 months in prison (would serve less than 8 months). Had they both been issued ID cards the address could have been geared to "flag up" on a DHSS computor.
There was the case last week of a woman claiming the same benefits as the woman above whilst renting her home from her husband, thay also found that two of their children also rented houses from their father but lived at another family home where they ALL lived and sub let the homes for which they were all recieving housing benefit and council tax payments.
I support the issue of ID cards IF ......
The cost is affordable to everyone.
The information on it is only that which is absolutely necessary or voluntarily supplied such as information that would help in a medical emergency.
It is compulsory by law to carry it with on the spot fines or imprisonment until produced the penalty for not carrying it otherwise it is a waste of time.
Sex God
Quote by flower411
Seem like such a good idea for all sorts of reasons.
Can someone remind me why the whole idea got shelved?
I think it may have been because rather a lot of people who have passports, credit cards, driving licenses and online profiles thought it was going to be an invasion of privacy !
All of which are voluntary schemes you choose to opt into in return for certain benefits, access to the data being strictly limited, the uses to which that data may be put being rigidly controlled. Apples and oranges. When ID cards were last being seriously mooted under the Labour govt the number of governmental and non-governmental depts and organisations who might have been granted access to your data was proliferating at a ferocious pace. We were talking biometric ID's last time round. To what uses could such data be put? Who knows? Once accepted in principle and implemented it takes only baby steps to progressively extend the scope of the system, and add more and more data to it. We cannot know what the final shape of that database might one day be, how that data might be used, or to who the most personal, private details would be made available.
There was talk that initially the cards would be voluntary. What purpose does a voluntary scheme serve? None. To be any use whatsoever as far as their stated purpose goes they have to be compulsory else there is no logic to them. Of course you can effectively introduce an element of compulsion even within a voluntary scheme simply by making it problematic in small ways not to possess one, but once in place they will inevitably become compulsory. Not possessing the kinds of IDs currently in circulation does not criminalise you. Not being able to produce one when required under a compulsory scheme does. You only have to look at how sus laws and stop and search have been applied to know that they disproportionately affect certain sections of society. ID cards would similiarly have a greater impact on ethnic communities and the poor, particularly in the current climate. Those who argue that the law abiding have nothing to fear and it's a price worth paying typically do not bear the brunt of invasive policing and infringements on their liberty.
No thanks!
Quote by starlightcouple
They're not now required because everyone in the UK is an honest and upright citizen, innit.
How dare people not respect that and demand another piece of identity
Besides, after the UK votes to leave Europe, they won't be of any use anyway beyond the shores of little England.
GnV.....do you know why the identity cards were being brought in at one point? What was the reason for them? As an Englishman born and bred here, why the hell would I need one?
Seriously do you know the reason?
Seriously star. No, I don't know the reason other than other States in the EU having them and being required to carry them at all times (as is the case in France). The ID card takes the place of a passport for travel anywhere in Europe so a French person travelling on Ryanair to Eire needs only French ID which they are by law required to have anyway so saves on cost. The UK Passport fee is outrageous!
Sex God
I agree with you GnV. Mandatory ID will save the country a fortune from fraud and it surprises me that extreme right wingers like UKIP have not taken it on as a policy.
Police State or the Police having the ability to control criminals such as non EU Eastern Europeans in the UK claiming to be from EU states in eastern europe, illegal immigrants working and not paying taxes, underage anything, benefit fraud, I know which way I see the half empty glass 
A law abiding citizen has no reason to fear them.
Many people have to use Company issued ID cards to do their jobs even checkout staff are often required to wear a name tag on display.
A law abiding citizen has no reason to fear them.Many people have to use Company issued ID cards to do their jobs even checkout staff are often required to wear a name tag on display.
Quote by MidsCouple24
Police State or the Police having the ability to control criminals such as non EU Eastern Europeans in the UK claiming to be from EU states in eastern europe, illegal immigrants working and not paying taxes, underage anything, benefit fraud, I know which way I see the half empty glass
If that is the reason for having them then it is a complete and utter waste of money.
Also if you see the glass half full if you think living in a police state everything is fine then you have many things to fear, I would suggest reading or re-reading 1984.
Quote by MidsCouple24
Many people have to use Company issued ID cards to do their jobs even checkout staff are often required to wear a name tag on display.
What has that got to do with ID cards? These cards will be abused for stop and search purposes. I know I do not trust a force that has such a poor record of dealing with people of ethnic origin.
1984 is here we have to accept it or do something about it, travel 10 miles from your home and you will appear on a camera somewhere along the line, your car registration will be logged and checked for discrepancies, use your mobile phone and keywords will flag up on government computors at GCHQ in Cheltenham, your bank records can be checked at anytime by Government agencies, websites you use are constantly monitored especially sites like twitter, facebook and the like where many people freely give details like thier employer, their former school, family members, friends, movement habits, purchases political views and much more, use your credit/debit card and the details of your purchase can be in government or Police hands in seconds.
For a law abiding citizen there doesn't appear to be a lot of problem with this in relation to "Big Brother" though the fraudsters hacking into or stealing such information do get the benefit of such systems.
Type UKIP in this forum and it can be flagged on a pc somewhere.
The "Sydney University" exercise proves this.
There ya go I have just been tracked twice for those statements
Here have some more Bomb, bombmaking, how to make a bomb, aeroplane bomb, target for bomb, happy to die for Allah, Government target, military target, the innocent need not worry about such things even if they do make you feel uncomfortable.
For a law abiding citizen there doesn't appear to be a lot of problem with this in relation to "Big Brother" though the fraudsters hacking into or stealing such information do get the benefit of such systems.
Type UKIP in this forum and it can be flagged on a pc somewhere.
The "Sydney University" exercise proves this.
There ya go I have just been tracked twice for those statements
Here have some more Bomb, bombmaking, how to make a bomb, aeroplane bomb, target for bomb, happy to die for Allah, Government target, military target, the innocent need not worry about such things even if they do make you feel uncomfortable.
Quote by Too Hot
I agree with you GnV. Mandatory ID will save the country a fortune from fraud and it surprises me that extreme right wingers like UKIP have not taken it on as a policy.
I think you are bloody paranoid. I think you are David Cameron in disguise, trying to put out the " message ".
If people have nothing to hide etc etc etc. It is just the cost they want me to pay that pisses me off. There are so many here now who should not be here, that I think having an ID system, is fine as long as they bloody act on it, when someone is caught out.
Lets be honest here and say this would not have been needed 20 years ago in the UK.
Lets be honest here and say this would not have been needed 20 years ago in the UK.
AAAAH but with hindsight ..... if implemented 20 years ago we might not have had some of the problems we have now, I really don't see the problem with carrying and producing an ID card to the authorities. Do we want to be saying in 20 years "if only we had done this 20 years ago"
During the War the population was required to carry identification (in the form of ration cards I believe) ok there was a war on you know, but we are fighting a war at home now aren't we ? a war against crime and fraud by foreigners who have no right to be here.
Implemented with the right rules and the right costs there is no problem with it.
Oh and my point about those who are required by their employment to carry ID cards simply shows how much use they can be, would you let the gas, virgin, sky, council, Police Detective, Waterboard, electricity meter reader in without seeing their ID. Those people find them not only paramount to being able to work but handy in other situations too, they are for example acceptable in swingers clubs as part of your ID.
During the War the population was required to carry identification (in the form of ration cards I believe) ok there was a war on you know, but we are fighting a war at home now aren't we ? a war against crime and fraud by foreigners who have no right to be here.
Implemented with the right rules and the right costs there is no problem with it.
Oh and my point about those who are required by their employment to carry ID cards simply shows how much use they can be, would you let the gas, virgin, sky, council, Police Detective, Waterboard, electricity meter reader in without seeing their ID. Those people find them not only paramount to being able to work but handy in other situations too, they are for example acceptable in swingers clubs as part of your ID.
Sex God
Quote by starlightcouple
I agree with you GnV. Mandatory ID will save the country a fortune from fraud and it surprises me that extreme right wingers like UKIP have not taken it on as a policy.
I think you are bloody paranoid. I think you are David Cameron in disguise, trying to put out the " message ".
What do you mean? Not sure I follow you?
Identity cards are normally a right wing concept so an extreme right wing party like UKIP should (in my opinion) embrace ID cards.
Is it the "extreme" bit that got you all exorcised? What are they if they are not extreme right wing then?
Simon Hill - Ekklesia - "On most issues, the policies of UKIP and the BNP are largely indistinguishable..... So why do we persist in treating UKIP as much more acceptable than the BNP? I’m not asking for UKIP members to be demonised, nor am I suggesting that the BNP should be treated more gently. But those who detest what the BNP stands for need to remember that far-right views are promoted well outside the BNP’s own membership – in UKIP, on the right of the Tory Party and in the pages of the Daily Mail."
At the end of the day it doesn't matter about the parties, except perhaps which party introduces it and makes it law, it is about wether or not we, the people think it is a good idea or not, at least in here for discussion.
Discuss it now, weigh up the pros and cons, check out come election time which party is for and against it and use that information along with other issues that are important to you to make your vote.
Discuss it later and it's too late, I don't care if it is extremist, if the party that introduces it is moderate or extreme, if they are UKIP, Labour, Conservative or anything else, I just want to hear others views about it, facts, thoughts and proposals, then I can make an "informed" decision come election time.
Discuss it now, weigh up the pros and cons, check out come election time which party is for and against it and use that information along with other issues that are important to you to make your vote.
Discuss it later and it's too late, I don't care if it is extremist, if the party that introduces it is moderate or extreme, if they are UKIP, Labour, Conservative or anything else, I just want to hear others views about it, facts, thoughts and proposals, then I can make an "informed" decision come election time.
Quote by Too Hot
I agree with you GnV. Mandatory ID will save the country a fortune from fraud and it surprises me that extreme right wingers like UKIP have not taken it on as a policy.
I think you are bloody paranoid. I think you are David Cameron in disguise, trying to put out the " message ".
What do you mean? Not sure I follow you?
Identity cards are normally a right wing concept so an extreme right wing party like UKIP should (in my opinion) embrace ID cards.
Is it the "extreme" bit that got you all exorcised? What are they if they are not extreme right wing then?
Simon Hill - Ekklesia - "On most issues, the policies of UKIP and the BNP are largely indistinguishable..... So why do we persist in treating UKIP as much more acceptable than the BNP? I’m not asking for UKIP members to be demonised, nor am I suggesting that the BNP should be treated more gently. But those who detest what the BNP stands for need to remember that far-right views are promoted well outside the BNP’s own membership – in UKIP, on the right of the Tory Party and in the pages of the Daily Mail."
You are bloody paranoid about UKIP, it's all you flipping talk about. ID cards was a Tory party thing I believe, or was it a Tony Bliar concept? You really need to stop focusing all your energy on the UKIP thing, it's making you sound rather strange. You got any other debating tool?
Sex God
Quote by starlightcouple
Can anyone tell me why we need them, and what does it try and prove? Does anyone know exactly?
Identity cards are credit card size and would contain details such as:
Photograph
Name & current address
Date of birth
National Insurance number
Nationality
Biometric technology can encode the information within the card as well as on it making forgery almost impossible. This information would also be stored on a national database and can be linked to the Passport office so that people can have the option of having an ID card instead of a passport if they only travel in Europe.
The possession of an ID card would be mandatory for everyone over 18 years old and it would therefore be a great help in reducing private and public fraud and would prevent many thousands of hours of wasted Police time.
ID cards have been proposed many times but the last time was by the labour government.
Currently we have claims that illegal immigrants claim benefits (illegally), NHS tourists bleed the NHS and that Welfare fraud is at an all time high. ID cards would cut this kind of fraud at a stroke and any future implementation of time restrictions on anyone claiming benefits can be accurately measured as can the benefits claimed by any one individual at any time. ID cards mean that people whose mission in life is to conduct fraud and theft will find that task much more difficult and if all the stories about immigrants illegally milking the system do turn out to be true then ID cards would turn out to be a cost benefit to the country as they would stop this.
Quote by Too Hot
Currently we have claims that illegal immigrants claim benefits (illegally), NHS tourists bleed the NHS and that Welfare fraud is at an all time high. ID cards would cut this kind of fraud at a stroke and any future implementation of time restrictions on anyone claiming benefits can be accurately measured as can the benefits claimed by any one individual at any time. ID cards mean that people whose mission in life is to conduct fraud and theft will find that task much more difficult and if all the stories about immigrants illegally milking the system do turn out to be true then ID cards would turn out to be a cost benefit to the country as they would stop this.
Sounds like a jolly good idea. The cost is a major stumbling block, and as I have mentioned already I have just had to pay out 20 quid to have my photo license replaced. I have no problem with that but I do wonder at the cost, oh yes and an addition 4 quid to let the Post Office take your picture and to send it all off.
How can an illegal immigrant claim benefits?
I thnk on the English news today was an item about creating an ID card for Heath Service purposes to replace the hand written prescription by GPs who - alledgedly - are responsible along with pharmacists - for a significant number of deaths annually from misunderstood or incorrectly dispensed drugs.
I thought that one of the Conservatives' agendas was to achieve 'joined up government'.
WTF can't they just combine ID, Health entitlement, Driving and other entitlements together on ONE card?
It's not rocket science, FGS
In the 60's, we put men on the moon!
I thought that one of the Conservatives' agendas was to achieve 'joined up government'.
WTF can't they just combine ID, Health entitlement, Driving and other entitlements together on ONE card?
It's not rocket science, FGS
In the 60's, we put men on the moon!
The cost is a stumbling block and does seem to be the main reason that people are against the idea, and I wholeheartedly agree with them, I don't care what it costs to implement the system because that cost is immaterial ...... what many believe and the Government give as the major reason for having them, it prevents a lot of fraud and wasted time, the savings from all of that would quickly pay for the implementation and actually "make a profit" in the long term, perhaps profit is the wrong word but bring about continuous savings to the hard pressed government funded organisations that are currently forking out a fortune to fraudsters.
So come on Government, get it done and get them issued for free, and bring in rules/laws like most other countries to ensure that non-uk residents and those residing here with visas or under EU rules but holding non-British issued passports have to carry their own passports/ID cards at all times.
Sasha has lived in the UK for more than 20 years and has a British Issued National Insurance card/number and a British issued E111 card (whatever the new one is called) but still carries one of her passports with her at all times. (she has dual Russian/Lithuanian Nationality). It is no hardship to do it and she understands why she has to do it, in her words, better that than be detained as a possible illegal immigrant.
So come on Government, get it done and get them issued for free, and bring in rules/laws like most other countries to ensure that non-uk residents and those residing here with visas or under EU rules but holding non-British issued passports have to carry their own passports/ID cards at all times.
Sasha has lived in the UK for more than 20 years and has a British Issued National Insurance card/number and a British issued E111 card (whatever the new one is called) but still carries one of her passports with her at all times. (she has dual Russian/Lithuanian Nationality). It is no hardship to do it and she understands why she has to do it, in her words, better that than be detained as a possible illegal immigrant.
