Is the government flouting it’s own rules and making people work 30 hours a week in a profitable organisation like Poundland for £50 job seekers allowance just the same as slave labour?
I supported the idea to get people that claim job seekers to work for their money, I was for the government placing them within charities or getting them to do community based jobs where by they help to look after their community in some way.
However I am dead against them being placed in profitable companies and the tax payer paying their wages. Which I believe is denying people a paid job within the company and helping the company save money and make larger profits.
My son has recently finished his degree and trying to get into the industry he has been trained to do. He has actively been seeking work and has even taken a few expenses only jobs in his specialist line of work to help put a portfolio together which he can present to any potential employer in the future.
He has been told he can’t do this by the benefits office even if he gets letters stating the job was an expenses only role. He has been told he can only work 30 hours a week unpaid with companies on their books only or they will stop his claim.
This seems madness to me. He is out of the house with traveling time 40 hours a week and has to prove he is actively seeking work which he is doing at night.
I am not being biased because of my son, the government is seems are encouraging students to stay on and get degrees and debt but are not supporting them by then placing them in places like poundland.
The government, have been saying we are supporting our 18-25 year olds.
Is encouraging our youngest to get a degree and debt then making them work 30 hours a week for £50 a week really helping our future generations really believe we are doing the best for them?
As a tax payer I am dead against the government using my money to support the work force of profit making organisations.
I Wonder if I am alone thinking this way?
Join the most popular community of UK swingers now
Login
Is the government flouting it’s own rules?
errrr don't Lords and Politicians ALWAYS flout thier own laws ?
TV licence exempt
Road Tax exempt
Smoking ban exempt
I partially agree that sticking someone in a shop like Poundland is wrong, it is not as if poundland or the like is going to give someone a good qualification for the future, however I am not against a better thought out variation of the idea,
The old apprenticeships schemes used to work well and a system whereby the Government subsidised the salaries of people employed in genuine qualification acquiring positions would not be such a bad thing. Providing Companies on the scheme could prove that they are actually training the person in a skill and at the end of the aprenticeship they would have a recogniseable qualification to help them seek a job in the industry perhaps even at the place they serve thier time.
Off the top of my head, fork lift driver, jcb driver, HGV driver, seamstress, toolmaker, bricklayer, tiler, plasterer, carpenter, mechanic, gas fitter, cable/sattelite fitter.
I know some schemes have been tried and some turned out to be rubbish but it DID work in the past because specifie trades were the only ones eligible for the scheme
TV licence exempt
Road Tax exempt
Smoking ban exempt
I partially agree that sticking someone in a shop like Poundland is wrong, it is not as if poundland or the like is going to give someone a good qualification for the future, however I am not against a better thought out variation of the idea,
The old apprenticeships schemes used to work well and a system whereby the Government subsidised the salaries of people employed in genuine qualification acquiring positions would not be such a bad thing. Providing Companies on the scheme could prove that they are actually training the person in a skill and at the end of the aprenticeship they would have a recogniseable qualification to help them seek a job in the industry perhaps even at the place they serve thier time.
Off the top of my head, fork lift driver, jcb driver, HGV driver, seamstress, toolmaker, bricklayer, tiler, plasterer, carpenter, mechanic, gas fitter, cable/sattelite fitter.
I know some schemes have been tried and some turned out to be rubbish but it DID work in the past because specifie trades were the only ones eligible for the scheme
Minx I presume this is in response to the news story of Cait Reilly who took her case to the Appeal court and won?
I think the word ' slave labour ' is too strong a word to use, but I am certainly not in favour of large organisations like Poundland and Sainsbury's etc getting people to work there for free, with only a mere hint of a job at the end of it.
The Government will now have to look at it's own legislation and alter the rules again. JSA is usually paid for the amount of NI contributions a person has paid, or how much money a household has coming in. To receive JSA is one thing, but to be then forced to work for it is another thing completely.
I am all for schemes that help the unemployed get back into work, but surely getting someone to work in a multi million pound business, with huge profit margins such as the likes of Sainsbury's to expect people to work there for free? Surely even if the huge companies made some kind of token gesture as say £15 a day that would be an improvement.
A lot of these companies offer these schemes with a ' possible ' view of taking that person on full time once the scheme has come to it's end. Why does the cynic bit in me make me suspicious?
Yes they are with schemes such as this? How many youngsters are out of work now? This is the best they can come up with? I wonder how many youngsters out of the million out of work, have or are benefiting from this scheme at this moment?
As a taxpayer now and not long ago an out of work scrounger
, I find using anyone's money is wrong, and I also find the threats behind these schemes wrong as well. Nobody should be forced to work for nothing, and even though she was getting JSA that should be irrelevant here.
No wonder so many large companies pulled out of this scheme when it was published in the media. If they had nothing to hide then why pull out? Because they know how bad this looks by having people working in these huge companies, and it is not costing them a damn penny, with a vague hint of a job at the end of it. I wonder how many Sainsbury's have given jobs to on this scheme? I bet it is not that many.
I think the word ' slave labour ' is too strong a word to use, but I am certainly not in favour of large organisations like Poundland and Sainsbury's etc getting people to work there for free, with only a mere hint of a job at the end of it.
The Government will now have to look at it's own legislation and alter the rules again. JSA is usually paid for the amount of NI contributions a person has paid, or how much money a household has coming in. To receive JSA is one thing, but to be then forced to work for it is another thing completely.
I am all for schemes that help the unemployed get back into work, but surely getting someone to work in a multi million pound business, with huge profit margins such as the likes of Sainsbury's to expect people to work there for free? Surely even if the huge companies made some kind of token gesture as say £15 a day that would be an improvement.
A lot of these companies offer these schemes with a ' possible ' view of taking that person on full time once the scheme has come to it's end. Why does the cynic bit in me make me suspicious?
Quote by Theladyisaminx
The government, have been saying we are supporting our 18-25 year olds.
Yes they are with schemes such as this? How many youngsters are out of work now? This is the best they can come up with? I wonder how many youngsters out of the million out of work, have or are benefiting from this scheme at this moment?
Quote by Theladyisaminx
As a tax payer I am dead against the government using my money to support the work force of profit making organisations.
As a taxpayer now and not long ago an out of work scrounger
, I find using anyone's money is wrong, and I also find the threats behind these schemes wrong as well. Nobody should be forced to work for nothing, and even though she was getting JSA that should be irrelevant here. No wonder so many large companies pulled out of this scheme when it was published in the media. If they had nothing to hide then why pull out? Because they know how bad this looks by having people working in these huge companies, and it is not costing them a damn penny, with a vague hint of a job at the end of it. I wonder how many Sainsbury's have given jobs to on this scheme? I bet it is not that many.
It is only 24 years ago that i left school at just under 16 and went to work at the Co Op on a YTS scheme, i worked 39 hours a week for , i got valuable work experience and the only promise i had was that the scheme was for 2 years, if after 2 years there was a permanent position then it would be mine.
I worked hard,listened and learned and after 18 months was offered the job on a full time basis, i had been trained to do a job and do it well and it sure as hell did me no harm.
Why should people be allowed to sit on their arses all day and be paid to do so, far too many people these days think that they are owed a living and far too many benefits are paid to people who have been brought up to think this way.
Maybe big companies are getting employees on the cheap but in the main those companies are willing to give these youngsters a chance to have some work experience, give them some training, and maybe get some work ethics into them..........
I worked hard,listened and learned and after 18 months was offered the job on a full time basis, i had been trained to do a job and do it well and it sure as hell did me no harm.
Why should people be allowed to sit on their arses all day and be paid to do so, far too many people these days think that they are owed a living and far too many benefits are paid to people who have been brought up to think this way.
Maybe big companies are getting employees on the cheap but in the main those companies are willing to give these youngsters a chance to have some work experience, give them some training, and maybe get some work ethics into them..........
nice to hear a success story
nicer to hear that the scheme worked, that someone appreciated the chance and took advantage of it, so I say again, a tweaked system is a good system of getting people trained, schooling is important but why do we think that learning ends with school, or college or university, for many the best education comes after school when they should be thinking about learning a trade or profession even if that is simply working on a checkout. I respect checkout people without their experience I would be queueing for hours
nicer to hear that the scheme worked, that someone appreciated the chance and took advantage of it, so I say again, a tweaked system is a good system of getting people trained, schooling is important but why do we think that learning ends with school, or college or university, for many the best education comes after school when they should be thinking about learning a trade or profession even if that is simply working on a checkout. I respect checkout people without their experience I would be queueing for hours
Quote by jumptoit
It is only 24 years ago that i left school at just under 16 and went to work at the Co Op on a YTS scheme, i worked 39 hours a week for , i got valuable work experience and the only promise i had was that the scheme was for 2 years, if after 2 years there was a permanent position then it would be mine.
I worked hard,listened and learned and after 18 months was offered the job on a full time basis, i had been trained to do a job and do it well and it sure as hell did me no harm.
Why should people be allowed to sit on their arses all day and be paid to do so, far too many people these days think that they are owed a living and far too many benefits are paid to people who have been brought up to think this way.
Maybe big companies are getting employees on the cheap but in the main those companies are willing to give these youngsters a chance to have some work experience, give them some training, and maybe get some work ethics into them..........
I agree the YTS Scheme was a good scheme my sister used the scheme years ago and learnt a trade she now has her own business in. The YTS actually taught you on the job.
What many are saying that are in this new scheme the placement are for a max 13 weeks and all they are asked to do is fill shelves everyday. That to me isn't teaching any real work shills for say someone that has been studying Film Production and isn't allowed to work to gain experience in the that field on the 30 hours a week scheme but can work in a shop filling shelves. What is the point of going to uni and getting in debt.
Don't get me wrong I worked in retail for 20 odd years I started at the bottom. So I have nothing against retail or filling shelves.
I was asking doesn't it makes more sense to support graduates in fields of work they have graduated for, as there are expenses only jobs about and not say no they have to work in retail for their JSA money.
An example is my son got a job expenses only working 50 one week which was a great learning curve and a great source of networking for contacts within his field of work. But the JSA was stopped as it wasn't unpaid work that the JSA had sent him for.
He isn't against a days work, and he is now working in a shop for his JSA I just believe if they can find jobs within the field they have studied for surely they have a better chance of learning on the job and better prospects of getting a real jobb withing that field.
After all he paid his own student fees and then for the government to say you can't put them to better use I think what is the point in getting in debt and a degree?
The government tell them to study get into debt, then to find out all employees them to have work experience. How are they suppose to gain that least the YTS gave you the right experience for the job you were doing.
With this scheme they are not told they would get a job at the end. They are told they would get work experience to put on their CV's
Quote by jumptoit
It is only 24 years ago that i left school at just under 16 and went to work at the Co Op on a YTS scheme, i worked 39 hours a week for , i got valuable work experience and the only promise i had was that the scheme was for 2 years, if after 2 years there was a permanent position then it would be mine.
I worked hard,listened and learned and after 18 months was offered the job on a full time basis, i had been trained to do a job and do it well and it sure as hell did me no harm.
Why should people be allowed to sit on their arses all day and be paid to do so, far too many people these days think that they are owed a living and far too many benefits are paid to people who have been brought up to think this way.
Maybe big companies are getting employees on the cheap but in the main those companies are willing to give these youngsters a chance to have some work experience, give them some training, and maybe get some work ethics into them..........
The majority of people out of work, are not sitting on their arses, as you state !!! I myself was made redundant 2 years ago, and although worked fully for 30 previous years, and highly qualified in my field, I still found it difficult to get work. Lucky for me, 4 months on I managed to get myself back in. However I put myself in a position of a youngster with no experiance, just left university...what chance have they got ? Now please don't try and tell me if I did a law degree at university, that stacking shelves at Poundland could be considered work experiance !! Oh yes i go for interview at some solicitors, ... I can say....but hey I know how to put pencils in a row on a top shelf !!! Ohh...i would be sure to get the job !!
The girl in question had recently finished a history degree I believe. She had got her herself a 3 day a week unpaid charity work, position in a Museum. Surely this was more like work experiance for her that stacking shelves !!
You also seem to think these companies are doing this out of the goodness of their hearts to give youngsters a chance and experiance. Who are you kidding...they are doing it as it is free labour, and it saves them paying someone else an hour for doing same job full time !!!
I am all for work experiance, but it can't simply be cheap easy labour for stacking shelves. It has to be tailored to fit the person, that they put in place, so that it does indeed give them experiance in a field they wish to pursue.
Sex God
Quote by deancannock
It is only 24 years ago that i left school at just under 16 and went to work at the Co Op on a YTS scheme, i worked 39 hours a week for , i got valuable work experience and the only promise i had was that the scheme was for 2 years, if after 2 years there was a permanent position then it would be mine.
I worked hard,listened and learned and after 18 months was offered the job on a full time basis, i had been trained to do a job and do it well and it sure as hell did me no harm.
Why should people be allowed to sit on their arses all day and be paid to do so, far too many people these days think that they are owed a living and far too many benefits are paid to people who have been brought up to think this way.
Maybe big companies are getting employees on the cheap but in the main those companies are willing to give these youngsters a chance to have some work experience, give them some training, and maybe get some work ethics into them..........
The majority of people out of work, are not sitting on their arses, as you state !!! I myself was made redundant 2 years ago, and although worked fully for 30 previous years, and highly qualified in my field, I still found it difficult to get work. Lucky for me, 4 months on I managed to get myself back in. However I put myself in a position of a youngster with no experiance, just left university...what chance have they got ? Now please don't try and tell me if I did a law degree at university, that stacking shelves at Poundland could be considered work experiance !! Oh yes i go for interview at some solicitors, ... I can say....but hey I know how to put pencils in a row on a top shelf !!! Ohh...i would be sure to get the job !!
The girl in question had recently finished a history degree I believe. She had got her herself a 3 day a week unpaid charity work, position in a Museum. Surely this was more like work experiance for her that stacking shelves !!
You also seem to think these companies are doing this out of the goodness of their hearts to give youngsters a chance and experiance. Who are you kidding...they are doing it as it is free labour, and it saves them paying someone else an hour for doing same job full time !!!
I am all for work experiance, but it can't simply be cheap easy labour for stacking shelves. It has to be tailored to fit the person, that they put in place, so that it does indeed give them experiance in a field they wish to pursue.
I totally agree. And it should be for long enough to actually gain something from it. A couple of weeks is what kids at school do for 'work experience' and that is basically useless if you have ever worked before. I would go further - the youngster should be supported during the placement either with on-work training, actual proper training, or a mentor from within the company structure to guide them in their personal development. Or are these placements not supposed to lead to an increased employability?
I think it would be a good idea for the employers to match the persons JSA as I feel very uneasy with large companies getting workers there for free. Stacking shelves in a supermarket is not really work experience I would have said, and whilst nothing wrong with stacking shelves the people doing that are getting paid at least the minimum wage for doing it.
All that will now happen is the Government will slightly alter the wording of this, and next month nobody will be able to challenge it in the courts. I did read somewhere from an age ago that only around 11% of these placements end up with a job offer. So if a person got £56 a week on JSA, what is wrong with a company matching that amount? At least there would not only be some experience for that person but also a financial incentive as well.
What is £56 to a company like Sainsbury's?
All that will now happen is the Government will slightly alter the wording of this, and next month nobody will be able to challenge it in the courts. I did read somewhere from an age ago that only around 11% of these placements end up with a job offer. So if a person got £56 a week on JSA, what is wrong with a company matching that amount? At least there would not only be some experience for that person but also a financial incentive as well.
What is £56 to a company like Sainsbury's?
Sex God
Quote by jumptoit
It is only 24 years ago that i left school at just under 16 and went to work at the Co Op on a YTS scheme, i worked 39 hours a week for ,
You were being stitched up then...
When I left school 27yrs ago I was on a YTS/YOP scheme and it was £25 per week and that increased to in the second year...
But I do agree that hard work and attention to detail more often than not did lead to an offer of full time employment ....
I have always wondered why some graduates chose the degree they just completed. Also realise its too young to really know what you want to work as for your career. But some degrees such as history or art can only prove you have the capacity to study and complete your degree. I cant think of any career role apart from the few that would sell art for work or that would become teachers on wages not to far above the min wage. I have to study and pass exams every year to maintain my role and in my sector we take interns and not far above the minimum wage that after a year if they prove themselves get a role on decent pay. The trick id imagine is to get a degree in something you love doing in a sector that is thriving and work your ass off for peanuts for a year and get on the team. Not really sure how relevant a degree is these days either. I look at what they have done and how they present themselves with how they cope in any interviews. I have never been asked about my degree in any interview so far, just all about what ive done and it makes me think its just now a 4 year piss up 
Minx, im in the tech industry and if you like, pop me a mail with the sons skill he just graduated in, I could run his cv past our HR team and point him in the right direction. Sometimes its that first little nudge that sorts a role out. I use one website for contracts and they are full of lots of technical roles. Also the cv counts too, we have popped some in the bin after seeing the state of presentation and some have coffee and are printed on recycled loo role.
If I can help it'd be a pleasure.
J
Minx, im in the tech industry and if you like, pop me a mail with the sons skill he just graduated in, I could run his cv past our HR team and point him in the right direction. Sometimes its that first little nudge that sorts a role out. I use one website for contracts and they are full of lots of technical roles. Also the cv counts too, we have popped some in the bin after seeing the state of presentation and some have coffee and are printed on recycled loo role.
If I can help it'd be a pleasure.
J
I meant with art that it isnt the biggest sector for a career other than being a teacher. I have a close friend who is now doing ok after 15 years trying to sell her art. Not many make as much as Mr Hirst though. But hey .. if its your love and you enjoy it then you should go for it. Just so many non relevant degrees for what they apply for its no wonder they never hear back for interview.
J
J
Sex God
I am on holiday and was talking to a young couple yesterday. They were both pilots. They said that their training to become pilots cost them less in debt than their associates who had gone to University to study for a Degree.
Quote by Too Hot
I am on holiday and was talking to a young couple yesterday. They were both pilots. They said that their training to become pilots cost them less in debt than their associates who had gone to University to study for a Degree.
Commercial pilot is approximately 36K. Starting salaries begin at £24K for 1st year pilots up to £150K+ for top flight wide body pilots.
Quote by Starlightcouple
I think it would be a good idea for the employers to match the persons JSA as I feel very uneasy with large companies getting workers there for free. Stacking shelves in a supermarket is not really work experience I would have said, and whilst nothing wrong with stacking shelves the people doing that are getting paid at least the minimum wage for doing it.
All that will now happen is the Government will slightly alter the wording of this, and next month nobody will be able to challenge it in the courts. I did read somewhere from an age ago that only around 11% of these placements end up with a job offer. So if a person got £56 a week on JSA, what is wrong with a company matching that amount? At least there would not only be some experience for that person but also a financial incentive as well.
What is £56 to a company like Sainsbury's?
An excellent idea, would fully support this!!
Quote by Rogue_Trader
I am on holiday and was talking to a young couple yesterday. They were both pilots. They said that their training to become pilots cost them less in debt than their associates who had gone to University to study for a Degree.
Commercial pilot is approximately 36K. Starting salaries begin at £24K for 1st year pilots up to £150K+ for top flight wide body pilots.
Quote by Starlightcouple
I think it would be a good idea for the employers to match the persons JSA as I feel very uneasy with large companies getting workers there for free. Stacking shelves in a supermarket is not really work experience I would have said, and whilst nothing wrong with stacking shelves the people doing that are getting paid at least the minimum wage for doing it.
All that will now happen is the Government will slightly alter the wording of this, and next month nobody will be able to challenge it in the courts. I did read somewhere from an age ago that only around 11% of these placements end up with a job offer. So if a person got £56 a week on JSA, what is wrong with a company matching that amount? At least there would not only be some experience for that person but also a financial incentive as well.
What is £56 to a company like Sainsbury's?
An excellent idea, would fully support this!!
I also agree and support this idea BUT, I think the wage needs to be more than JSA by enough to cover expenses especially travel, this would still not be an expensive wage to employers large and small and would certainly not outweigh the benefits to companies having enough staff to the job properly.
Quote by MidsCouple24
I also agree and support this idea BUT, I think the wage needs to be more than JSA by enough to cover expenses especially travel, this would still not be an expensive wage to employers large and small and would certainly not outweigh the benefits to companies having enough staff to the job properly.
As far as I am aware Mids, the people on this scheme already get their expenses paid over and above their JSA. Rightly so of course, so the employer matches the JSA payment , but if the Job Centre is paying the travel now then they should continue doing so.
So JSA pay the twice monthly amount plus any travel expenses, and the employer matches the persons JSA payment. I think that is a right and fair thing to do. How can a scheme be a success when an employer is getting someone's labour for free?
As much as I dislike George Galloway, he was excellent on Question Time last night, especially his views on this scheme.
