If it is found that the farmer is telling the truth, then I fully suport his action in this case and any like it.
I would be interested in other thoughts
A COUPLE have been left ‘devastated’ after a farmer shot dead two of their dogs for ‘worrying his cattle’.
Susan and Tony Dracup, of Woodville Road, Hartshorne, lost Tilly, a two-year-old Beagle-like hound, and Suki, a one-year-old whippet cross, when they were killed by John Collier, of nearby Goseley Dale Farm, while being taken for a walk.
The 64-year-old shot the dogs from 40ft with his 16-bore shotgun after his wife, Audrey, allegedly saw them worrying his 15-strong herd of pedigree Charolais cattle, each worth more than £5,000.
You know my opinion - I have zero sympathy with the owners of the dogs.
The countryside is not a park for people to have pinics in and to their walk dogs. It is a working environment with its own rules as well as dangers. People who fail to understand that, plague those whose job is to 'work the land'. From leaving gates open to throwing toxic rubbish into fields to allowing their pets to chase and attack valuable livestock.
The person walking the dog did not see them shot - which means they had allowed the dogs to roam completely unrestricted and uncontrolled among the famr animals. I'm pretty sure that alone is an offence, let alone allowing (ie not preventing) the dogs attacking the animals. You don't need to bite an animal to damage it, the stress of being chased by a snarling predator is enough to trigger spontaneous abortion in pregnant cows and sheep.
Exactly Foxy, Dave. Can hardly the blame the farmer where owners have been irresponsible enough with their dogs to put them in a situation where a farmer feels entitled to shoot to protect his stock to begin with. I've had staffs and collies who could easily pose a threat to livestock, but you just don't put them or other members of the public at risk as far as is humanly possible. Like trying to shut the stable door after the horse has bolted, that one. Shouldn't be allowed to happen in the first place, though I accept there may sometimes be extreme circumstances or mitigating factors, but unfortunately the farmer has every right to extreme actions arising as a consequence of those circumstances no matter how much anyone pleads mitigation.
N x x x ;)
i think they should have sent the other hounds out, well they would of had it been a fox that killed the sheep.:giggle:
The owner of the dogs, having been a farmer himself, should have known the consequences and for his wife now to say that she will lobby her MP to have the law changed to make it a criminal offence for a farmer to shoot dogs worrying livestock beggars belief.
The problem is, that most people see their domestic pets as lovely friendly cuddly little playthings who wouldn't harm a fly. The reality is that domestic dogs revert back to their natural 'pack' state and when owners are shown the evidence of their 'harmless' little pet's activities they are often mortified.
A bill to cover the cost of the lost beast often brings them back to reality.
Guess what tweeks, little Fido there can still carry Neospora Canina. Doesn't bother the dog much, but allow Fido off the lead to crap in a field and a cow picks up the bug she will abort her calf and become infertile, going from a milking cow worth £1500+, producing 10,000 litres of milk a year to being nothing more than burger meat worth £300. We had 12 animals infected the year before last. We have always been happy to let people walk where they wish on the farm as long as they shut gates etc, but we put up signs asking people to keep their dogs on leads and to clean up their shit. Within a day these signs had been torn down.
Just wondering if there isn't a double standard here.... How many farm dogs have you seen wandering freely ??? how many farmers have you seen dashing after them with their little plastic bag in hand ??
By all means keep your dogs under control and don't allow them near livestock... but lets not be stupid about it
When on any enclosed land with sheep all dogs must be on a lead or 'under close control'. If you allow your dog to worry livestock you can be prosecuted and fined, ordered to pay compensation and even have the dog destroyed. Now who's worried? Worrying livestock means attacking or chasing any farm animal or poultry - there does not have to be any contact. The landowner is not liable to compensate the dog’s owner in such circumstances.
DEFRA say "The main countryside rule is - DOGS MUST NEVER WORRY LIVESTOCK. Under the Dogs (Protection of Livestock) Act 1953 the owner, and anyone else under whose control the dog is at the time, will be guilty of an offence if it worries livestock on agricultural land. The dog must have been attacking or chasing livestock in such a way that it could reasonably be expected to cause injury or suffering or, in the case of females, abortion or the loss or diminution of their produce. An offence is not committed if at the time of the worrying the livestock were trespassing, the dog belonged to the owner of the land on which the trespassing livestock were and the person in charge of the dog did not cause the dog to attack the livestock. The definition of 'livestock' includes cattle, sheep, goats, swine, horses and poultry. Game birds are not included."
Any dog which is not a working dog can be regarded as worrying livestock merely by being off lead and not under close control in a field or enclosure where there are sheep. A landowner could shoot such a dog, if it can be proved that the action was necessary to protect livestock and that it was reported to the police within 48 hours. The dog's owner can then be subject to all the above penalties too - except being shot, of course. So be careful!
On a right of way your dog does not have to be on a lead but it does have to be 'under close control'. This phrase is not defined but pretty much means that if you are in a field with animals or poultry and your dog will not always come, straight away, when called even when he's chasing things, and then stay there, he could be at risk of being seen to worry animals. So if there is any chance he might go off then the lead is the best option until you are out of the field with livestock in it.
2A)Subsection (2)(c) of this section shall not apply in relation to—.
(a)a dog owned by, or in the charge of, the occupier of the field or enclosure or the owner of the sheep or a person authorised by either of those persons; or.
(b)a police dog, a guide dog, trained sheep dog, a working gun dog or a pack of hounds.].
These of coarse would not chase livestock anyway
I would have to say stags that if a farmer was silly enough to keep a dog that chased his own stock......."bigger fool him"
Surely Staggs even you can see the difference between a farm dog shitting on his own land, with the possibility of any number of dogs, possible not vaccinated from an outside source. A farmer would be a fool to allow his own dog to endanger his own stock, and a very different story from some one from outside endangering his lively-hood
Secondly I will happily throw down the gauntlet and ask you or any one else to get my dog to chase any animal. I spend hundreds of hours training out the natural instinct to chase. My dogs "sit to the flush", that is, they hunt game, rabbit or perhaps pheasant by quartering the ground in front of you, within gunshot range and as they flush the animal, they sit. It takes around two years of very hard work to get a dog to this standard.
An example of a dog being trained for this here
If others that you mention are unable to train the dogs to such standards then they or the breading stock could be the problem
It doesn't matter a bit if one single dog that someone knows doesn't chase farm animals. The point is - some will. Many do given the chance.
In this case the owners were out of sight of their pets so what should the farmer do? Traipse all over his land looking for an irresponsible idiot while said irresponsible idiot's dog worries more of his livelihood into aborting next year's income? I bloody wouldn't.
As for 'there should have been signs up'. WTF? Animals in a field = and will always = keep your damned pet on a lead! It isn't hard.
