london riots

5 Dec 2011

Quote by Bluefish2009
I do wish you would improve your ability to read and digest information before you post.

Do we have to achieve a level of ability to post here then?
thankfully if we did from past posts ben would not be allowed. lol

i will not go back over old posts that i have looked at where ben has done exactly what he does not want others to do. do we have a double standards emotion by any chance? :lol:
bolt

5 Dec 2011

Interesting insight
An 18-year-old man from Liverpool lost his job after the riots and is now unemployed:
"I was watching the news. It was London, just was kicking off big time. All my mates going on about it. I was worried 'cos I was at work in town and I just remember all the bars closing down. Like everyone was talking about it. I couldn't say that there was one person that weren't talking about it. It was basically: 'Fuck the law.' It was just, like, against the law, really.
"There was, like, 200 people on Smithdown Road. It was unbelievable. I never, ever witnessed something like that. It was mad. The police couldn't do nothing. Like they were pushing people back and we were getting pushed forwards. It was mad, crazy.
"I didn't get involved but there was people going crazy and like setting cars on fire and doing all sorts of madness. There was even some looting but I weren't down with that. The 200 people on Smithdown wasn't looting.
"They all got shields and stuff and they were just pushing us back. There was too many people; they couldn't cope with it. The thing that shocked me most was a car got pushed down Smithdown on fire. The police were just going for it. It was crazy. Three of my mates got proper hurt by the police.
"I was out until two and then I got arrested on the next day … The police was there in my face just shouting and screaming. And I basically told them: 'This is some next-level revolution coming.' I was just going crazy.
"I've never been to court. Have been arrested, but never been charged. I lost my job over it too … It was just stupid. I heard someone who did something to Tesco in Liverpool got 10 years each. That's like ridiculous."

5 Dec 2011

I think if you do read the article, what Ben is getting at, is that " the excuses " that you say The Guardian are pushing.....is simply reporting the findings of a London School of Economics survey. They are simply reporting the findings. These same findings were also broadcast across BBC and Sky News. We all know what happened in the riots was pure criminality. What people are trying to find out, is what sparked it. criminality is about us all the time, but we have not had riots since the 80's. Does seem to go hand in hand with high unemployment. let me say in no way would I condone criminal behaviour or violence. However maybe if we could get to understand it, maybe we could do things to stop it happening again.....something we surely all want.
As for the Guardian, lets be thankful for good honest reporters. Remember this is also the newspapaer that broke the phone hacking scandal. Or perhaps you prefer the jounalist school of thought, that says "why let the truth get in the way of a good story !! " I quote there from a journalist at the recent enquiry !!!

5 Dec 2011

Quote by deancannock
I think if you do read the article, what Ben is getting at, is that " the excuses " that you say The Guardian are pushing.....is simply reporting the findings of a London School of Economics survey. They are simply reporting the findings.

ah right. no bias there then.

Quote by deancannock
hese same findings were also broadcast across BBC and Sky News. We all know what happened in the riots was pure criminality. What people are trying to find out, is what sparked it. criminality is about us all the time, but we have not had riots since the 80's. Does seem to go hand in hand with high unemployment.

high unemployment. they did not like saturday nights, they hate the police, they hate life etc. i wonder what the excuse was of the thug who set fire to that pub in woolwich was? any of ther above? somehow i think not. just mindless criminality for no particular reeson so stop tryting to look for reesons to justify it.

Quote by deancannock
let me say in no way would I condone criminal behaviour or violence. However maybe if we could get to understand it, maybe we could do things to stop it happening again.....something we surely all want.

the however is looking for an excuse.

Quote by deancannock
As for the Guardian, lets be thankful for good honest reporters. Remember this is also the newspapaer that broke the phone hacking scandal. Or perhaps you prefer the jounalist school of thought, that says "why let the truth get in the way of a good story !! " I quote there from a journalist at the recent enquiry !!!

ah right you think the telegraph is also a good paper then? i will let you find out the reeson i am asking.
good honest reporters eh? ah right the only newspaper that i can see that spends all its time looking for excuses and reesons for the riots and the only newspaper way off the mark. typical of the guardian that there has to be some reeson. it is the fault of those nasty police men, or they are not understood crap. no wonder we had those riots as after to many of you guradian reeders look for weak excuses for there actions. they rioted because they thought they could get away with setting fire to buildings and peeples homes and then robbing them. does not need the london school of ecowarriors or the guardian and its honest reporters to find that one out as it is the truth.:thumbup: not an excuse btw. the truth.

5 Dec 2011

how blinkered can you get....
if it was just criminality...and no other reason...why does it not happen every year ??
Purely criminality doesn't just happen every 30 or so years !!!
Bias.....why would the London school of economics be biased ??
and yes I would say the Telegraph is a good paper.....with good journalists

if read the link..says exactly the same as the Gaurdian does !!!

5 Dec 2011

Re-arrange these words
Ignorant
wit
pig
fuck
Now say out loud .... (insert user of choice) is a .....
We can all confer later and see who won

5 Dec 2011

Quote by Staggerlee_BB
Re-arrange these words
Ignorant
wit
pig
fuck
Now say out loud .... (insert user of choice) is a .....
We can all confer later and see who won

i know who my choice of user would be.:notes:
ah nice to see you again mr stagers. so what does the say about this then?
answers on a postage stamp to.:grin:

6 Dec 2011

Quote by starlightcouple
excuses excuses from a newspaper that it wonders why its reedership is so low need look no further than almost giving the rioters excuses for there actions.

Luckily for us though Star readers of quality newspapers and genuine opinion formers like your good self are here to properly interpret events for us, eh?

the only newspaper that i can see that spends all its time looking for excuses and reesons for the riots and the only newspaper way off the mark. typical of the guardian that there has to be some reeson.

So there's no reason for it then, is that what you're saying? Do tell us Star then, given there are no reasons worth investigating and the LSE / Guardian study is a complete load of shite, apparently, how would you, with your massive understanding of the none-existent lessons to be learned and not-at-all-underlying none-causes make sure we never, ever go through this again then? I'm all ears.
N
P.S. Staggers? How the fuck did get dragged into this? dunno

6 Dec 2011

Quote by essex34m

just shows how good a paper and how good its journalists are!! wink

6 Dec 2011

Yes...good paper and nothing wrong with an opinion in a writers column. I'm all for that. Equally other papers are entitled to their opinion.
or is it as other newspapers don't concur with your view...they they are liberal left wingers that don't deserve column space.
Please read the Guardian article again....and then read the orginal Telegraph article. Both report in a factual manner the findings of the report. No comment or bias from either as it should be.

6 Dec 2011

Quote by neilinleeds
So there's no reason for it then, is that what you're saying? Do tell us Star then, given there are no reasons worth investigating and the LSE / Guardian study is a complete load of shite, apparently, how would you, with your massive understanding of the none-existent lessons to be learned and not-at-all-underlying none-causes make sure we never, ever go through this again then? I'm all ears.

of course neil there are reesons for it but not the reesons the guardian and the LSE would have us all beleeve.
seeing as we have had the guardians responce to this i will add another newspapers responce. yes i know there are plenty of peeple on this forum who scoff and sneer at this papers views, but for me its reedership is far bigger than the guardians, so has more reeders. that makes it worth listening to.

there are many things which i found so funny in this article like.
" A report commissioned by the Guardian newspaper and conducted with the London School of Economics – based on 270 interviews with those taking part in the disturbances – placed ‘policing’ behind only poverty as a trigger".
ah right so it is ether the police or poverty mainly to blame?
" ‘Criminals explaining their own criminality – there is a slight irony there,’ added the president of the Association of Chief Police Officers. ‘I am entirely unsurprised that people who were rioting chose to blame anyone or anything but themselves for their actions".

:rotflmao: how funny is that?
" No sort of sense of moral obligation or standards within themselves – they simply have chosen to blame other people ".
" ‘It was just common criminals taking advantage of the situation for their own means,’ he said.
"These people have been asked to give an explanation for their actions and to blame police is just the easiest thing to do ".
" An official inquiry into the five days of violence, which cost the country at least £500million, concluded last week that the shameful scenes were motivated by greed ".
" David Green, director of the think tank Civitas, said the report was just criminals ‘making excuses". :thumbup::thumbup:
and lastly some bodys comment at the bottom sums it all up far better than the guardian or the LSE could.
" Wow! Violent criminals who are allergic to work do not like the police. This report was really worth the money".
see neil there are other peeples views on the reesons as well as the guardians. :notes:
now all i wait for is the others here who are just about to vent there anger at the coments of that rag the daily mail. tut tut

6 Dec 2011

the daily mails reedership figures as of july 2011 were 2 million and 50 thousand.
the daily telegraphs reedership figures as of july 2011 were 634 thousand.
and the guardians reedership figures as of july 2011 were.
230 thousand
oh deer awful journalism always equals poor reedership. :notes:
sorry could not resist that and i do not even buy a paper. :thumbup:

6 Dec 2011

Oh in that case THE NEWS OF THE WORLD was the best newspaper ever then. Maybe we should all give up and read the SUN....and no other paper.
Daily Mail ( after the News Of The World) is the newpaper that has paid out the most due to libel actions . In other words it admits it made up stories and lied !! It has also now been sited in the phone hacking scandal by two different sources. Just because it has more readers, does not mean its good or truthfull.
Also could you quote me the bit where the Guardian sites an opinion on the riots in its article. I have read it, which it seems you haven't. It simply reports the facts that were given in the London School Of Economics report. Could you maybe also explain why the LSE would be biased in its report ?

6 Dec 2011

Quote by deancannock
Also could you quote me the bit where the Guardian sites an opinion on the riots in its article. I have read it, which it seems you haven't. It simply reports the facts that were given in the London School Of Economics report. Could you maybe also explain why the LSE would be biased in its report ?

maybe you should meet the teem dean.

count how many there are asociated with the guardian newspaper. a report about the riots for the guardian where many of those work for the guardian. hardly un biased now is it dean? :notes:

6 Dec 2011

Quote by deancannock
Could you maybe also explain why the LSE would be biased in its report ?

maybe this can give peeple an insight into the LSE.

" Saif al-Islam Gaddafi, a son of the Libyan leader, is an LSE graduate " oh dear.
" The LSE has been caught up in controversy surrounding funding from Libya - with student protesters staging an occupation ".
ah right at leest i know where part of its money comes from now. :notes:

6 Dec 2011

Quote by starlightcouple

Also could you quote me the bit where the Guardian sites an opinion on the riots in its article. I have read it, which it seems you haven't. It simply reports the facts that were given in the London School Of Economics report. Could you maybe also explain why the LSE would be biased in its report ?

maybe you should meet the teem dean.

count how many there are asociated with the guardian newspaper. a report about the riots for the guardian where many of those work for the guardian. hardly un biased now is it dean? :notes:
good team I would say...Jounalist of the year and the Head of the London School of economics ( advisor to the home office ) as your chief core team....I ask again...show me where in the article it shows an opinion.....as oppossed to reporting facts. I know as a reader of the mail..you may find factual reporting difficult to fathom....but yes it does still exisit !!!

6 Dec 2011

Quote by deancannock
I ask again...show me where in the article it shows an opinion.....as oppossed to reporting facts. I know as a reader of the mail..you may find factual reporting difficult to fathom....but yes it does still exisit !!!

this was a report carried out by the guardian and the LSE together dean. are you seriusly telling me that the guardian in its own newspaper and its own journalists report nothing but facts? if that is the case how come the police are mocking there reesons?
this is what this is all about dean. this for me is a factual article. not by a newspaper trying to find more reeders for its dwindeling reedership.

" Reading this study, we are left to marvel either at the extraordinary perspicacity of Guardian writers, or at their ability to carry out research in such a way that it confirms their own political preconceptions".
"Many of the 270 interviewees were recruited through their connections with community organisations, meaning they may have already been infused with, or at least influenced by, the mores and outlook of community activism, of the kind you’ll frequently find in the Guardian ‘Society’ supplement".
there are a load more articles out there dean who scoff at this report by the guardian and the LSE. and there seems far more that scoff at there findings than actually agree with it dean. if you want to beleeve that this report was based on facts taken from the hard core rioters then is it any wonder the reedership of this newspaper is so bloody low.
one persons facts is another persons biased opinions dean and that is the major stumbling block here dean. have you any idea how many times the LSE is mentioned over many months in the guardian dean? and your telling me they are not biased in any way towards that newspaper dean? lol

the LSE get recognition by a daily newspaper and the guardian get reports to take part in, works rather well for both sides it would seem dean.

6 Dec 2011

Dean I think hes talking to you Dean, just a guess like Dean..

6 Dec 2011

Quote by deancannock
Yes...good paper and nothing wrong with an opinion in a writers column. I'm all for that. Equally other papers are entitled to their opinion.
or is it as other newspapers don't concur with your view...they they are liberal left wingers that don't deserve column space.
Please read the Guardian article again....and then read the orginal Telegraph article. Both report in a factual manner the findings of the report. No comment or bias from either as it should be.

I've not read the Guardian article at all so can't read it again. I read neither of those newspapers. I was merely commenting upon your high regard for the Telegraph and its viewpoint.
So nothing wrong with a columnists viewpoint? Were you not recently criticising another columnist on the strength of a second hand article in another newspaper?

6 Dec 2011

Quote by Max777
Yes...good paper and nothing wrong with an opinion in a writers column. I'm all for that. Equally other papers are entitled to their opinion.
or is it as other newspapers don't concur with your view...they they are liberal left wingers that don't deserve column space.
Please read the Guardian article again....and then read the orginal Telegraph article. Both report in a factual manner the findings of the report. No comment or bias from either as it should be.

I've not read the Guardian article at all so can't read it again. I read neither of those newspapers. I was merely commenting upon your high regard for the Telegraph and its viewpoint.
So nothing wrong with a columnists viewpoint? Were you not recently criticising another columnist on the strength of a second hand article in another newspaper?
max..not sure which one. For me as long as its a columnist, and not a reporter then i think it is fine to have an opinion. Not saying I or you would agree to the views expressed, but more than open to people being allowed to express them.
Starlight....I ask once again....show me where in the article is gives an opinion. The Guardian and The telegraph, could almost have been written by the same journalist, it is so simuliar. It is straight forward reporting !! Thats what decent newspapers do !!!!

6 Dec 2011

Quote by deancannock
max..not sure which one. For me as long as its a columnist, and not a reporter then i think it is fine to have an opinion. Not saying I or you would agree to the views expressed, but more than open to people being allowed to express them.
!!!!

Dean, we definitley wouldn't agree as the columnist I'm referring to is a certain Mr Jeremy Clarkson! So when you say it's OK for a columnist
to express an opinion, do you mean any columnist EXCEPT Clarkson?

6 Dec 2011

Quote by Max777

max..not sure which one. For me as long as its a columnist, and not a reporter then i think it is fine to have an opinion. Not saying I or you would agree to the views expressed, but more than open to people being allowed to express them.
!!!!

Dean, we definitley wouldn't agree as the columnist I'm referring to is a certain Mr Jeremy Clarkson! So when you say it's OK for a columnist
to express an opinion, do you mean any columnist EXCEPT Clarkson?
max.....I defend his right to say it....I still find saying a person who says anyone who commits suicide should be left for scavening animals to clean up, is not worthy of being a columnist and those sort of comments disgust me. Maybe if some extremist writes in some newpaper that dead soldiers in Iraq should be left in the same manor , as he believes they are trespassers in his country...you will also think ( as I would ) that the person views disgust you, and are not worthy to be printed due to the offence they can and would cause.

6 Dec 2011

Quote by deancannock
max.....I defend his right to say it....I still find saying a person who says anyone who commits suicide should be left for scavening animals to clean up, is not worthy of being a columnist and those sort of comments disgust me.

but as you have openly admitted " i defend his right to say it ". sorry dean but your not doing that at all. you are stating as max has stated you are.
opinions eh dean? opinions. thankfully we all have them and are allowed to have them, unless of course it is a person that disgusts you with there comments eh? peeple have openly stated they found his comments funny and you did not. i suppose one of us will just have to get over that fact.:notes:

6 Dec 2011

I very rarely buy a newspaper, but I do visit several news websites, I often read the same story reported by differing people, at different sites/papers and then make up my mind on the story.
As for this piece the data revealed by this research, I suspect it almost useless. The thing is with this type of research, you get the answers to the questions asked. I suspect they were worded to get the answers they wanted.
However, I will concede that unemployment, deprivation and lack of education are all factor's in these riots, but not the cause. But neither can I except that the police and unemployment are the root cause either.
Many other things will have had an effect, over crowding in some city housing estates, possibly the influx of persons from abroad or other areas, homelessness, poor parenting skills and maybe many other factors, when they all come together with the right catalyst

6 Dec 2011

See, the thing I find most funny is, that he really does think he's winning the argument

6 Dec 2011

Quote by Bluefish2009
I very rarely buy a newspaper, but I do visit several news websites, I often read the same story reported by differing people, at different sites/papers and then make up my mind on the story.
As for this piece the data revealed by this research, I suspect it almost useless. The thing is with this type of research, you get the answers to the questions asked. I suspect they were worded to get the answers they wanted.
However, I will concede that unemployment, deprivation and lack of education are all factor's in these riots, but not the cause. But neither can I except that the police and unemployment are the root cause either.
Many other things will have had an effect, over crowding in some city housing estates, possibly the influx of persons from abroad or other areas, homelessness, poor parenting skills and maybe many other factors, when they all come together with the right catalyst

Now that's an even handed well reasoned post

6 Dec 2011

Quote by Staggerlee_BB
See, the thing I find most funny is, that he really does think he's winning the argument

I feal Dean is hold in own very well actually

6 Dec 2011

Quote by Bluefish2009
See, the thing I find most funny is, that he really does think he's winning the argument

I feal Dean is hold in own very well actually
lol

:lol:

6 Dec 2011

I dont know if this helps.

Stevens said it "rang alarm bells" that stop and search was an issue, and police must be better at explaining to communities what they are doing and be better at listening to their concerns.