Well I have read the newspaper coverage of today's announcement and I am a little disheartened.
Rather than tackling the fundamental issue, the availability of cheap home consumed alcohol as recommended by government advisers only last year, we are to see measures designed to make pubs and clubs behave more "responsibly".
I think the government has bottled out, failing to implement sensible price controls, fearing the potential damage to its popularity. Quite how many impartial government advisers need to present evidence to support the view that alcohol is the most damaging drug in our society before we take appropriate action?
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New code on alcohol sales
Quote by Ben_welshminx
Well I have read the newspaper coverage of today's announcement and I am a little disheartened.
Rather than tackling the fundamental issue, the availability of cheap home consumed alcohol as recommended by government advisers only last year, we are to see measures designed to make pubs and clubs behave more "responsibly".
I think the government has bottled out, failing to implement sensible price controls, fearing the potential damage to its popularity. Quite how many impartial government advisers need to present evidence to support the view that alcohol is the most damaging drug in our society before we take appropriate action?
yea, but how many who drink at home go out on the streets when drunk and start fighting and causing national mayhem.
Quite a few Kryps, in fact the pre pub piss up is quite the latest cultural phenomenon and widely documented under the "Binge" banner.
To clarify these radical new measures all ON licensees must:
Serve free water.
Not give free drinks to women.
Check the age of drinkers.
Not hold drinking contests/ inappropriate alcohol promotions.
Serve drinks in singles and doubles.
Now I'm happy to be called an old cynic but a wise man once told me that doing what you already did and expecting a different result was a sign of insanity and I don't actually see anything new on that list.
To clarify these radical new measures all ON licensees must:
Serve free water.
Not give free drinks to women.
Check the age of drinkers.
Not hold drinking contests/ inappropriate alcohol promotions.
Serve drinks in singles and doubles.
Now I'm happy to be called an old cynic but a wise man once told me that doing what you already did and expecting a different result was a sign of insanity and I don't actually see anything new on that list.
Well we are all about to be suckered into a wonderful way of raising millions of pounds, and at the same time think they are doing all of us a massive favour.
The millions or could it be billions of pounds raised in putting the prices up, will go where exactly? It certainly wil not go into anything constructive, apart from the Governments big pot of cash.
In Britain we have a booze culture, we have had it now for many years, and it is that culture that needs to be changed, and not the idiotic ,measures of putting up the prices, which will also affect the vast majority who ARE sensible drinkers.
People in this country and usually the younger generation, go out with a mindset of getting as pissed as possible. That is what we need to change. Does this Government really and honestly believe that putting up the price of drink will stop the very people that these measures are supposed to tackle?
Get real fgs....it is about raising more money from the drinker, with an excuse of trying to stop this mad culture of drink that we have....period.
Yes the Supermarkets have a bit to answer for in their cheap buy it booze at half price malrky but putting a quid or two on a box of beer will have no effect whatsoever.
Across Europe they don't have this problem that we do with booze. See how the British behave abroad every summer, where drink is the main source of trouble.
We need more bobbies on the street ( when was the last time you saw a copper walking the streets? ) I am not talking about the Plastic Plods, who have about as much power as a dud Duracel, I am talking about proper police officers...on the beat?
Why should the majority have to pay more for the idiot minority, who simply look forward to their weekends at clubs and pubs, with one aim ....to get as pissed as possible, and to cause trouble.
ANYONE brought into hospital for a drink related problem should be MADE to pay for their treatment. That is a good way of clawing back the vast ammount of money the NHS has to spend on piss heads.
It angers me that I will have to pay more for my drink, and all because some fecking twat thinks it is a laugh to get so pissed, and then to cause trouble.
People need EDUCATING in schools, from an early age about RESPONSIBLE drinking habits, just like they do with regard to and the like....teach them young.
To think that charging these feral toads who are out on a Friday or Saturday night, in every bloody town centre, will make a blind bit of difference, is typical of a Government who have had a few too many large scotches themselves...no doubt at our expense as well.
What the feck has happened to this country where the minority seem to change the laws for the majority?
The millions or could it be billions of pounds raised in putting the prices up, will go where exactly? It certainly wil not go into anything constructive, apart from the Governments big pot of cash.
In Britain we have a booze culture, we have had it now for many years, and it is that culture that needs to be changed, and not the idiotic ,measures of putting up the prices, which will also affect the vast majority who ARE sensible drinkers.
People in this country and usually the younger generation, go out with a mindset of getting as pissed as possible. That is what we need to change. Does this Government really and honestly believe that putting up the price of drink will stop the very people that these measures are supposed to tackle?
Get real fgs....it is about raising more money from the drinker, with an excuse of trying to stop this mad culture of drink that we have....period.
Yes the Supermarkets have a bit to answer for in their cheap buy it booze at half price malrky but putting a quid or two on a box of beer will have no effect whatsoever.
Across Europe they don't have this problem that we do with booze. See how the British behave abroad every summer, where drink is the main source of trouble.
We need more bobbies on the street ( when was the last time you saw a copper walking the streets? ) I am not talking about the Plastic Plods, who have about as much power as a dud Duracel, I am talking about proper police officers...on the beat?
Why should the majority have to pay more for the idiot minority, who simply look forward to their weekends at clubs and pubs, with one aim ....to get as pissed as possible, and to cause trouble.
ANYONE brought into hospital for a drink related problem should be MADE to pay for their treatment. That is a good way of clawing back the vast ammount of money the NHS has to spend on piss heads.
It angers me that I will have to pay more for my drink, and all because some fecking twat thinks it is a laugh to get so pissed, and then to cause trouble.
People need EDUCATING in schools, from an early age about RESPONSIBLE drinking habits, just like they do with regard to and the like....teach them young.
To think that charging these feral toads who are out on a Friday or Saturday night, in every bloody town centre, will make a blind bit of difference, is typical of a Government who have had a few too many large scotches themselves...no doubt at our expense as well.
What the feck has happened to this country where the minority seem to change the laws for the majority?
Quote by Ben_welshminx
Quite a few Kryps, in fact the pre pub piss up is quite the latest cultural phenomenon and widely documented under the "Binge" banner.
To clarify these radical new measures all ON licensees must:
Serve free water.
Not give free drinks to women.
Check the age of drinkers.
Not hold drinking contests/ inappropriate alcohol promotions.
Serve drinks in singles and doubles.
Now I'm happy to be called an old cynic but a wise man once told me that doing what you already did and expecting a different result was a sign of insanity and I don't actually see anything new on that list.
then they're not sitting at home then are they.
I'm talking about those of us who prefer to shun pubs and relax at home with a few beers instead of suffering inane loud music, kids who think the world wants to fight them and where i can sit in the warm and have a cigarette and the prices are not over inflated.
why should we suffer cause the police and the courts do not use the powers already there.
as for new and radical meaures , they all been tried before.
Sex God
Well it seems a better alternative than the minimum price per unit recomended by the BMA. That would have put a bottle of spirits to about £20.
I agree though - putting the price up will only exarcebate the problem for the problem drinkers as bootlegging and home brewing will probably make a come back and the problems of over drinking will be compounded by poisening too.
This country has a history of attacking difficult social issues with broad brush resolutions which simply alienate the law abiding majority and do nothing to address the underlying social problem. In Spain very few youngsters drink to excess, the reason is that it is simply "not cool" to be drunk. Here, it is cool to be drunk and to tell war stories about drunken exploits - this is what needs to change.
I agree though - putting the price up will only exarcebate the problem for the problem drinkers as bootlegging and home brewing will probably make a come back and the problems of over drinking will be compounded by poisening too.
This country has a history of attacking difficult social issues with broad brush resolutions which simply alienate the law abiding majority and do nothing to address the underlying social problem. In Spain very few youngsters drink to excess, the reason is that it is simply "not cool" to be drunk. Here, it is cool to be drunk and to tell war stories about drunken exploits - this is what needs to change.
Sex God
Am I alone in failing to make the connection between drink and hooliganism ??
I have been drinking regularly and on many occasions heavily for 30 years and never caused or been involved in any trouble.
I have been outrageously drunk on many occasions and never caused or been involved in any trouble.
I am far from unique...many people drink regularly and on occasion heavily and never cause or get involved in any trouble.
The problem (if there is one)is a social one, and only related to drink in that it is when we go out there are large enough numbers for those few hooligans to meet each other.
Alcohol is a red herring conveniently masking the true problem.
I have been drinking regularly and on many occasions heavily for 30 years and never caused or been involved in any trouble.
I have been outrageously drunk on many occasions and never caused or been involved in any trouble.
I am far from unique...many people drink regularly and on occasion heavily and never cause or get involved in any trouble.
The problem (if there is one)is a social one, and only related to drink in that it is when we go out there are large enough numbers for those few hooligans to meet each other.
Alcohol is a red herring conveniently masking the true problem.
Quote by Staggerlee_BB
Am I alone in failing to make the connection between drink and hooliganism ??
I have been drinking regularly and on many occasions heavily for 30 years and never caused or been involved in any trouble.
I have been outrageously drunk on many occasions and never caused or been involved in any trouble.
I am far from unique...many people drink regularly and on occasion heavily and never cause or get involved in any trouble.
The problem (if there is one)is a social one, and only related to drink in that it is when we go out there are large enough numbers for those few hooligans to meet each other.
Alcohol is a red herring conveniently masking the true problem.
I think alcohol exacerbates problems. Take someone with an aggresive nature, add a substance which makes you think you're bigger/tougher/ 'arder than they really are...add a few mates to show off in front of...and bingo, you have a recipe for trouble.
I have been, on one or two occasions, a little tipsy. Luckily, I can "hold" the tipsy, warm toed giggly stage for some time. Then I get a little loud, start to "talk posh"- so I'm told, and then- when I risk going into the "maudlin" stage, I go to bed.
However, I have encountered people who looked like butter wouldn't melt though turning into violent psycho's with the addition of the right amount of vodka. I can honestly say that the moment I realised I was an aggressive drunk would be the moment I drank my last drop. Easy for me to say I guess as I don't have an addictive personality.
Sex God
Quote by Witchy
Am I alone in failing to make the connection between drink and hooliganism ??
I have been drinking regularly and on many occasions heavily for 30 years and never caused or been involved in any trouble.
I have been outrageously drunk on many occasions and never caused or been involved in any trouble.
I am far from unique...many people drink regularly and on occasion heavily and never cause or get involved in any trouble.
The problem (if there is one)is a social one, and only related to drink in that it is when we go out there are large enough numbers for those few hooligans to meet each other.
Alcohol is a red herring conveniently masking the true problem.
I think alcohol exacerbates problems. Take someone with an aggresive nature, add a substance which makes you think you're bigger/tougher/ 'arder than they really are...add a few mates to show off in front of...and bingo, you have a recipe for trouble.
I have been, on one or two occasions, a little tipsy. Luckily, I can "hold" the tipsy, warm toed giggly stage for some time. Then I get a little loud, start to "talk posh"- so I'm told, and then- when I risk going into the "maudlin" stage, I go to bed.
However, I have encountered people who looked like butter wouldn't melt though turning into violent psycho's with the addition of the right amount of vodka. I can honestly say that the moment I realised I was an aggressive drunk would be the moment I drank my last drop. Easy for me to say I guess as I don't have an addictive personality.
Whilst I do agree with you up to a point ...I still firmly believe the wrong question is being asked....Not why does alcohol bring out violence in some people , but why do some people have an underlying propensity to violence ?
Sex God
Quote by Ben_welshminx
Quite a few Kryps, in fact the pre pub piss up is quite the latest cultural phenomenon and widely documented under the "Binge" banner.
To clarify these radical new measures all ON licensees must:
Serve free water.
Not give free drinks to women.
Check the age of drinkers.
Not hold drinking contests/ inappropriate alcohol promotions.
Serve drinks in singles and doubles.
Now I'm happy to be called an old cynic but a wise man once told me that doing what you already did and expecting a different result was a sign of insanity and I don't actually see anything new on that list.
I do understand your point of view, but mine is; why should my can of beer become more expensive for me to drink sensibly because of the cultural phenomenon other the stupid?
It's seems to be a reaction to the the 'supposed' one target set by the government, that being to improve public confidence in local governments, police etc.
People are aware when people are drunk and being anti social, fighting on the streets and so forth, so these are the people and the agenda being targeted.
For those who drink at home nothing changes, there is a large amount of drink fuelled violence that occurs in homes, but only the neighbours and the local police are aware so let's not worry hey.
Increasing the prices of drinks in supermarkets is quite likely to fuel an increase in acquisitive crime so that those desperate or young can still have a drink, and that wouldn't suit in the run up to an election.
All that said, these pillocks are actually in a minority so why should drinkers who don't cause bother, whether on the street or in the house, suffer because of these morons.
Jas
XXX
People are aware when people are drunk and being anti social, fighting on the streets and so forth, so these are the people and the agenda being targeted.
For those who drink at home nothing changes, there is a large amount of drink fuelled violence that occurs in homes, but only the neighbours and the local police are aware so let's not worry hey.
Increasing the prices of drinks in supermarkets is quite likely to fuel an increase in acquisitive crime so that those desperate or young can still have a drink, and that wouldn't suit in the run up to an election.
All that said, these pillocks are actually in a minority so why should drinkers who don't cause bother, whether on the street or in the house, suffer because of these morons.
Jas
XXX
A lot of valid points already raised on this thread, so not sure how much I can add:-
1) The Government's policy on the sale of drink drink is not a lot different from the one it uses on the road with speed cameras - you raise revenue, you control the speeds slightly, which on average will reduce the consequences of accidents if not actual accidents themselves - it is a crude and mainly unpopular tool, that has a limited effect.
2) You need to change the spirit of the drink culture - the only way to reach such an ethos, is to tighten up on several fronts at the same time, some of which have already been mentioned:
(a) more police on the beat - another story in itself!
(b) education in schools and better influences on the young (not easy, I know)
(c) more difficulty in obtaining drink, rather than increasing prices - some booze is obtained on impulse, so fewer outlets might help. Remember if you try to limit on price alone, people will often go without other things such as food for the kids or even steal to satisfy the habit.
Plim :sad:
1) The Government's policy on the sale of drink drink is not a lot different from the one it uses on the road with speed cameras - you raise revenue, you control the speeds slightly, which on average will reduce the consequences of accidents if not actual accidents themselves - it is a crude and mainly unpopular tool, that has a limited effect.
2) You need to change the spirit of the drink culture - the only way to reach such an ethos, is to tighten up on several fronts at the same time, some of which have already been mentioned:
(a) more police on the beat - another story in itself!
(b) education in schools and better influences on the young (not easy, I know)
(c) more difficulty in obtaining drink, rather than increasing prices - some booze is obtained on impulse, so fewer outlets might help. Remember if you try to limit on price alone, people will often go without other things such as food for the kids or even steal to satisfy the habit.
Plim :sad:
