Overweight people versun the airlines

4 Apr 2013

I'm sure there are enough flights within one airline for them to calculate an average weight per passenger and calculate the per passenger fuel requirement for any given flight. I am certain they are doing that already.
They then have to control the other variable weight impact - that being the passengers' luggage weights. Hence charging for overweight luggage.
The other controllable weights are what the airline choose to add to the cabin - food/drink carts, number of cabin crew (dictated by safety minimums and agreed service levels), the extras like in flight magazines.
Airframe and engine manufacturers have been working for decades on reducing fuel consumption. The savings by improved engine efficiency alone have been huge. Lightweight paints, plastic or composite fixtures and fittings, fewer repeat/redundant systems and components enabled by better and better manufacturing and inspection methods.
They could certainly cut weight one way - get rid of food/drink on short flights. It's pointless and only there because most airlines charge stupid money for a coke and sandwich.
To be honest the only thing on an aircraft whose weight per seat has increased is the passenger. (aircraft carry more people so are naturally heavier, but the weight is spread among more people)
But, I believe that airlines that start charging per passenger kilo are on a hiding to losing business and they are already allowing for our weight, just averaged across the full passenger list.

4 Apr 2013

Quote by Trevaunance
Are you suggesting that every passenger would be weighed at the airport? Given that more and more airlines are moving away from airport check ins in order to reduce costs, this would seem very unlikely .

This is exactly what happens with the samoan airline. They physically weigh the passenger on the baggage weight machine at the check in. Last time I checked Hold luggage in they weighed each bag individually, so in effect there is only one more bag being weighed per passenger and therefore not beyond the realms of possibility or ability.
Yes but it's a very small airline, flying very small planes in which weight is a major factor and therefore everyone has to be weighed as a matter of course. They were doing this before they started charging by the kilo.
You asked Star if he was suggesting people should be weighed at the airport, and I have pointed out that this is a policy with one airline. The size of the airline doesn't really matter, it's a demonstration that the idea could work. There is a video of it .
Within the same article there are more indications of how the airlines are attempting to cut the costs of fuel:
'Air Canada estimates that for each kilogram it removes from one of its Boeing 763 aircraft, it will save 3,925 kilograms of fuel every year'.
'WestJet Airlines Ltd., for example, has gone to extraordinary measures to reduce weight, from shrinking the size of its in-flight magazine and printing it on lighter paper stock to using a lightweight paint on the aircraft. Simple things like switching to lighter service carts are saving roughly 1.8 million litres in fuel a year'.
I think that there is some scope for the idea, and if the airline can save more money by using weight based fares than it would need to spend to run the system then surely it's even more likely.
There's a hell of a difference between weighing passengers on two nine seater aircraft and doing it at a busy airport full of airplanes carrying 300 + passengers. In the complete article to which you refer, the author does allude to the problems it would create at check-in, an area from which airlines are trying to remove as much cost as possible.
Also, by charging heavier passengers more, the weight of the plane is not reduced unless the aim is to deter overweight passengers from travelling altogether.
Airlines will not introduce this just in order to redistribute the existing fares over heavier/lighter passengers and I'm far from convinced that any extra income they would raise would be worth the additional costs and adverse public reaction involved in implementation.
A more practicable solution would be to have several larger seats per plane, for which a premium would be charged, in much the same way that some airlines now charge additional charges for seats with extra legroom.

4 Apr 2013

Your right, there is a big difference but the fact remains that several airlines are already looking at some method of charging passengers by weight.
Online check in and self service check in are two good examples of how airlines have cut direct costs, and are used by most airlines including the Samoan flagcarrier. Who would have predicted that 20 years ago?
Things change, and I think there is a possibility that charging passengers by weight could occur more frequently in the future.

4 Apr 2013

In all this there is a scentific factor and a danger factor.
Big airplane like the airbus, let's say 360 passengers, travelling accross a big continent, lets say Gatwick to Perth. full tank of fuel obviously as this is the limit of its range and maxium seating capacity, long haul so probably all taking maximum luggage.
Fill it with slim adults weighing around 11-12 stone each, fill it with the same numer of adults all weighing around 20 stone and that is a massive increase in the total aircraft weight, it might not even have enough fuel for that journey but it is certainly going to cost a lot more to get the plane from A to B.
Surely not weighing the passengers could be dangerous, aircraft have crashed in the past because they have exceeded their weight capacity.
The possibilities of this happening on a single flight might be rare but it is a factor that should be considered.
Trucks on the road are subjected to weight checks but without weighing passengers and relying on averages has to be dangerous, we wouldntrely on haulage companies giving an average weight for the trucks they put on the roads.

4 Apr 2013

oooh yes foxylady thats a good point, 20 hour flight 360 passengers more crew and more food and more drinks and more weight - good point lol

it is possible that under rare circumstances the aircraft could be carrying the equivalent of 720 passengers when it was designed for 360 (in some airbuses that rises to 419 or 838 big ones lol

and that's not relevant some say dunno

4 Apr 2013

Mids, Can you supply an example of a passenger airline that has fallen from the sky due to it carrying excess weight?
Do you honestly believe that airlines do not err well on the side of safety when it comes to load factors?

4 Apr 2013

Quote by Max777
Mids, Can you supply an example of a passenger airline that has fallen from the sky due to it carrying excess weight?
Do you honestly believe that airlines do not err well on the side of safety when it comes to load factors?

Yes Max two examples albeit military aircraft one in Afghanistan that was overloaded with personnel and one in the Falklands campaign carrying 22 SAS members and twice its normal payload, I accept that this was wartime conditions and that operational necessity made those in charge authorise the flights when ordinarily they wouldn't but that emphasises my point that if payloads are ignored such things will happen, the army were aware of the overweight situation and made the choice to chance it, civilian planes take over every few seconds without the pilot really knowing exactly what weight he is carrying on board.
Now Max since you question the validity of what I said I assume perhaps wrongly but without further information do assume that you disagree with me, can you provide examples of planes being able to fly with twice their payload on board or reasoning why weight would not matter ?

4 Apr 2013

Quote by MidsCouple24
Mids, Can you supply an example of a passenger airline that has fallen from the sky due to it carrying excess weight?
Do you honestly believe that airlines do not err well on the side of safety when it comes to load factors?

Yes Max two examples albeit military aircraft one in Afghanistan that was overloaded with personnel and one in the Falklands campaign carrying 22 SAS members and twice its normal payload, I accept that this was wartime conditions and that operational necessity made those in charge authorise the flights when ordinarily they wouldn't but that emphasises my point that if payloads are ignored such things will happen, the army were aware of the overweight situation and made the choice to chance it, civilian planes take over every few seconds without the pilot really knowing exactly what weight he is carrying on board.
Now Max since you question the validity of what I said I assume perhaps wrongly but without further information do assume that you disagree with me, can you provide examples of planes being able to fly with twice their payload on board or reasoning why weight would not matter ?
Why do I have to supply examples of planes flying with twice their payload? Do you really believe that an aircraft would have 300+ obese passengers on board at one time and even if this were to happen in the realms of fantasy, do you not think that the airlines systems would recognise the problem? This scenario would not double the plane's payload either!
Reputable airlines are a little more sophisticated than you are obviously aware.

4 Apr 2013

Quote by Max777
Mids, Can you supply an example of a passenger airline that has fallen from the sky due to it carrying excess weight?
Do you honestly believe that airlines do not err well on the side of safety when it comes to load factors?

Yes Max two examples albeit military aircraft one in Afghanistan that was overloaded with personnel and one in the Falklands campaign carrying 22 SAS members and twice its normal payload, I accept that this was wartime conditions and that operational necessity made those in charge authorise the flights when ordinarily they wouldn't but that emphasises my point that if payloads are ignored such things will happen, the army were aware of the overweight situation and made the choice to chance it, civilian planes take over every few seconds without the pilot really knowing exactly what weight he is carrying on board.
Now Max since you question the validity of what I said I assume perhaps wrongly but without further information do assume that you disagree with me, can you provide examples of planes being able to fly with twice their payload on board or reasoning why weight would not matter ?
Why do I have to supply examples of planes flying with twice their payload? because you ask me to provide examples even though it is fact it happensDo you really believe that an aircraft would have 300+ obese passengers on board at one time It is not my job to believe it Max nor is it yours, I did say it would be a rare thing, but the FAA and CAA who are responsible for aircraft safety procedures do have to consider it no matter how rare or bizzare the case may be. and even if this were to happen in the realms of fantasy, do you not think that the matter would be flagged up somewhere? How could the matter be flagged up somewhere if nobody knows the weight of all the passengers on the aircraft ?
Reputable airlines are a little more sophisticated than you are obviously aware. but they don't weigh passengers or ask them what their weight is do they
If you watch the very good documentary series available on aircrash investigation or seconds from disaster you will see that serious disasters are rarely caused by a single factor, generally it is a series of errors or a series of breakdowns, a plane thought to be carrying more fuel than it was, running out when the weight and distance factor loomed its ugly head, a pilot who then thinks his instruments are faulty because they show too little fuel, a form filled in incorrectly showing more fuel was loaded than actually was, the train that was two times overweight because a guard guessed the figures, with a braking car that had fautly brakes and another braking car that had faulty hoses and yet a third which was only operating at half power. A sailor who thinks turning away from an iceberg is the best action, a designer who doesnt think airtight doors should go to the top, a company that believes too many lifeboats make the ship look untidy, the Captain of the Carpathian who thinks distress flares are fireworks. An airline company that doesn't think that all the passengers on the charter heading to a Strongmans convention will be heavier than average perhaps ? The point is it could happen and anything that could happen requires safety procedures to be in place to try and prevent a disaster no matter what series of errors precede it.

4 Apr 2013

Quote by MidsCouple24
Mids, Can you supply an example of a passenger airline that has fallen from the sky due to it carrying excess weight?
Do you honestly believe that airlines do not err well on the side of safety when it comes to load factors?

Yes Max two examples albeit military aircraft one in Afghanistan that was overloaded with personnel and one in the Falklands campaign carrying 22 SAS members and twice its normal payload, I accept that this was wartime conditions and that operational necessity made those in charge authorise the flights when ordinarily they wouldn't but that emphasises my point that if payloads are ignored such things will happen, the army were aware of the overweight situation and made the choice to chance it, civilian planes take over every few seconds without the pilot really knowing exactly what weight he is carrying on board.
Now Max since you question the validity of what I said I assume perhaps wrongly but without further information do assume that you disagree with me, can you provide examples of planes being able to fly with twice their payload on board or reasoning why weight would not matter ?
Why do I have to supply examples of planes flying with twice their payload? because you ask me to provide examples even though it is fact it happensDo you really believe that an aircraft would have 300+ obese passengers on board at one time It is not my job to believe it Max nor is it yours, I did say it would be a rare thing, but the FAA and CAA who are responsible for aircraft safety procedures do have to consider it no matter how rare or bizzare the case may be. and even if this were to happen in the realms of fantasy, do you not think that the matter would be flagged up somewhere? How could the matter be flagged up somewhere if nobody knows the weight of all the passengers on the aircraft ?
Reputable airlines are a little more sophisticated than you are obviously aware. but they don't weigh passengers or ask them what their weight is do they
If you watch the very good documentary series available on aircrash investigation or seconds from disaster you will see that serious disasters are rarely caused by a single factor, generally it is a series of errors or a series of breakdowns, a plane thought to be carrying more fuel than it was, running out when the weight and distance factor loomed its ugly head, a pilot who then thinks his instruments are faulty because they show too little fuel, a form filled in incorrectly showing more fuel was loaded than actually was, the train that was two times overweight because a guard guessed the figures, with a braking car that had fautly brakes and another braking car that had faulty hoses and yet a third which was only operating at half power. A sailor who thinks turning away from an iceberg is the best action, a designer who doesnt think airtight doors should go to the top, a company that believes too many lifeboats make the ship look untidy, the Captain of the Carpathian who thinks distress flares are fireworks. An airline company that doesn't think that all the passengers on the charter heading to a Strongmans convention will be heavier than average perhaps ? The point is it could happen and anything that could happen requires safety procedures to be in place to try and prevent a disaster no matter what series of errors precede it.
Airlines have systems in place to monitor the weight and balance of their payloads! Balance of the payload is as important, if not more, than the actual payload itself. I really can't be arsed to answer the rest of your drivel.

5 Apr 2013

what's up max if it doesn't match your views is it all drivel, all hail the know it all Max who can only resort to insult when he is challenged on his views
People have opinions Max, they are entitled to them, they can think for themselves and should not be abused for it, sometimes they will be wrong, sometimes they will be right, but they have the right to air them in the forums without you insulting what they believe, that is freedom and in this country we try to live freely.
I ask again how a pilot knows the weight of his payload when he doesn't know the weight of upto 420 passengers ?
I may be talking about the one chance in a million but you are talking about the impossible. 10 stones multiplied by 400 souls is a lot of extra unknown weight.

5 Apr 2013

Quote by MidsCouple24
I ask again how a pilot knows the weight of his payload when he doesn't know the weight of upto 420 passengers ?

Most aircraft built in the last ten years have a weight on wheels system to retract the undercarriage. It registers the weight of the naked aircraft and then knows at what point to start the undercarriage retraction. aircrew are generally aware as to the weight of the aircraft (though not specifically because of podgie passengers) well before take off, so they can ensure the correct fuel load.

5 Apr 2013

Let's all play your game Max you have stated that airlines have procedures that will tell them if an aircraft is overloaded.
Let me help you
This is what the CAA say about overloading planes with passenger weight
Mandatory requirements of Civil Aviation Regulation 235
5. Civil Aviation Regulation (CAR) 235 (4) requires that an aircraft shall not take off, or attempt to take off, if its gross weight exceeds the maximum take off weight permitted
after taking into account all of the circumstances of the proposed flight. Consequently,
regardless of the method used to determine passenger and baggage weights, the operator and the pilot in command are responsible for ensuring that the requirements of
CAR 235(4) and 235(5) are satisfied at all times, i.e., that the aircraft is not overloaded.
6. The information contained in this publication, if used, will, in most cases, ensure that the legal requirements of Regulation 235 are met. However it is stressed that the
information contained in this publication is advisory only and does not replace the legal
requirements of Regulation 235..
The use of one standard passenger weight for all aircraft can result in a high
probability of overloading.
The use of one standard passenger weight for all aircraft can result in a high
probability of overloading.
7. The practice in Australia has been to use the same standard passenger weight,
irrespective of the size of the aircraft. However, this practice increases the probability of overloading the aircraft as passenger capacity decreases, and vice versa..
CAA SUGGESTED STANDARD PASSENGER WEIGHTS MAXIMUM SEATING CAPACITY OF AIRCRAFT
ADULT
(Male)
ADULT 66.1
(Fem)
INFANT 16kg
0-3 yrs
CHILD 41kg
ADOLESCENT
(Male)
ADOLESCNET 54,7
(Fem)
Well, Well the CAA think that there is a high risk of overloading a plane using an average weight system, personally I think when your talking about 850 passengers and assuming that they are all one weight your asking for trouble.
Let's look at that Adult Male figure of
An average white male aged 30 weighs but an average white male aged 60 weighs 84kgs
An average Black males weigh slighly less and hispanic males weigh less still but those who are neither Black, White or Hispanic weigh consiberably more.
That's just the men, so to calculate the weight of your passengers you have to know how many men, how many women how many male adolescents, male infants and how many male babies
are on board then the same calculations for the females then you have to know what ethniticy they are. Then when you have all that you don't know what % of them are overweight perhaps as much as double those figures.
Now to make it interesting the passenger weight ratio does vary depending on the size of the aircraft, a 300 seat airbus can carry less overweight people than a 500 seat airbus and even less than a 800 seat airbus.
God forbid there is something interesting to see out of the Port side windows and they all move over to have a look.
So once again how can the Pilot who is responsible for ensuring that the plane does not leave the ground carrying too much weight know what the weight is if they dont weigh th passengers ?

5 Apr 2013

Quote by Trevaunance
I ask again how a pilot knows the weight of his payload when he doesn't know the weight of upto 420 passengers ?

Most aircraft built in the last ten years have a weight on wheels system to retract the undercarriage. It registers the weight of the naked aircraft and then knows at what point to start the undercarriage retraction. aircrew are generally aware as to the weight of the aircraft (though not specifically because of podgie passengers) well before take off, so they can ensure the correct fuel load.
Sounds plausible but then why was I able to find out all that I just posted which I was doing while you posted what you said, on how the CAA are concerned about passenger weights and mistakes being made ?

5 Apr 2013

It's late. I'll answer you in the morn.

5 Apr 2013

OK Mids. You asked me a very stupid question, as to whether I can show you an example of an airplane flying with twice its payload. Now you show me an example of BA, Air France. KLM, Lufthansa, Emirates, Singapore Airlines, Qantas or any other major legacy carrier that has an aircraft fall from the sky due to it being overloaded. Oh that's right, you can't,
Trev was right about most modern airplanes having weight and balance systems. Do you honestly believe airlines leave it to rough guesswork? Honestly?. Star got it right when he said you make it up as you go along.
Go get yourself a job in the aviation industry, it clearly needs an expert such as you to ensure we all can fly safely in the future. BTW,, you may think I'm resorting to insults when I describe some of your postings as drivel but as far as I'm concerned, I'm merely stating fact.

5 Apr 2013

Quote by Max777
Airlines have systems in place to monitor the weight and balance of their payloads! Balance of the payload is as important, if not more, than the actual payload itself. I really can't be arsed to answer the rest of your drivel.

Maybe Mids thinks planes all still look like this Max?

These planes are now so advanced I reckon they would be able to spot a mouse running around the aircraft. lol

5 Apr 2013

Found some pics for you Mids which may solve the puzzle.
The first picture is of an older airliners cockpit....

Spot the difference? :giggle::giggle:
All joking aside there are probably sensors everywhere on that plane monitoring a million and one things, including the take off weight of the plane.

5 Apr 2013

I'm a frequent flyer, some weeks its up to 5 or 6 flights, domestic and international, and no I'm not a trolly dolly...
Some airlines stipulate that the seat you are given is the one you must remain in to ensure the plane is trimmed correctly, others don't give a toss (Ryanair)
Now its the smaller aircraft that are most at risk when the weight differential is bigger and these aircraft are the ones that have less than 20 passengers. A lot of these have taken to weighing passengers or asking for their weight on check-in to enable the pilot to know what to expect for trim. on the flight to the Scilly isles you used to be placed in the seat by the pilot so he was happy with weight distribution.

5 Apr 2013

Quote by Rogue_Trader
I'm a frequent flyer, some weeks its up to 5 or 6 flights, domestic and international, and no I'm not a trolly dolly...
Some airlines stipulate that the seat you are given is the one you must remain in to ensure the plane is trimmed correctly, others don't give a toss (Ryanair)
Now its the smaller aircraft that are most at risk when the weight differential is bigger and these aircraft are the ones that have less than 20 passengers. A lot of these have taken to weighing passengers or asking for their weight on check-in to enable the pilot to know what to expect for trim. on the flight to the Scilly isles you used to be placed in the seat by the pilot so he was happy with weight distribution.

:thumbup:

5 Apr 2013

Quote by Max777
OK Mids. You asked me a very stupid question, as to whether I can show you an example of an airplane flying with twice its payload. Now you show me an example of BA, Air France. KLM, Lufthansa, Emirates, Singapore Airlines, Qantas or any other major legacy carrier that has an aircraft fall from the sky due to it being overloaded. Oh that's right, you can't, same old same old cant provide the facts requested so come back and ask the person to provide facts, you do it in almost every thread you "contribute" to.
Trev was right about most modern airplanes having weight and balance systems. Do you honestly believe airlines leave it to rough guesswork? Honestly?. I never said that I quoted the CAA guidelines for assessing passenger weights it is you that said it was ridiculous to weigh people whilst later saying in smaller aircraft this was an important factor Star got it right when he said you make it up as you go along.
Go get yourself a job in the aviation industry, it clearly needs an expert such as you to ensure we all can fly safely in the future. BTW,, you may think I'm resorting to insults when I describe some of your postings as drivel but as far as I'm concerned, I'm merely stating fact.

You are Pathetic, never once on the forums have you admitted to being wrong or that someone with a slight or serious different opinion is right, oh to be so super intelligent and know everything, how wonderfull that must be, now being in charge of the CAA can you please tell me why you have issued rules and guidelines about the overloading of planes that carry up to 500 passengers a time ?
Thats right you cant can you, because your not the head of the CAA, you just agreed with someone that the smaller planes are at risk from passenger weight problems yet earlier you discount this as a factor, how can I have been wrong about the weight of passengers being a scientific factor when a plane takes off yet you be right about the same thing ? a plane is a plane no matter how many it carries so if a plane (remember a plane is a plane) takes off it fall into the category of being a plane that has to know what weight it carries, newer planes might well be able to calculate it's payload but not all planes are as advanced.
The CAA think this fact worthy of attention and the writing of warnings and guidelines but you don't, thank heaven you are not in charge. but don't worry I won't ask you to prove anything again because everytime I do you cannot or will not though it is your favourite pastime asking others for evidence it simply is not something you yourself are able to do.
In summary, I said aircraft taking off need to be aware of the passenger weight, you have said it was irrelevant and we never need to know but today you say sometime we do need to know especially in the case of smaller aircraft (the CAA advise on those carrying up to 500 souls).
I do know that a lot of aircraft are built recently and with modern technology but there a lot up there that are not. You cant carte blanche everything because some carry up to date technology and forget the older stuff.

5 Apr 2013

Quote by MidsCouple24
You are Pathetic, never once on the forums have you admitted to being wrong or that someone with a slight or serious different opinion is right, oh to be so super intelligent and know everything, how wonderfull that must be, now being in charge of the CAA can you please tell me why you have issued rules and guidelines about the overloading of planes that carry up to 500 passengers a time ?

Blimey Mids I thought you was talking about me as that is how I have been described. Seems there is me and Max on here now. rotflmao

:rascal:

5 Apr 2013

Ok, this is how it works.
The CAA rules are for manufacturers and airlines.
Manufacturers will work out a safe load limit based on various calculations and factors of safety (the safety factor is massive, if anyone has heard of six sigma, planes operate at ten sigma) this gives a very large margin for the aircraft, just in case all the passengers are a little on the big size.
But the other coin to this is that you could not get 250 overweight passengers on the plane, the problem is one of volume. The seats are designed for a range of passengers, as soon as you are too large to have the armrest down fully you will only be able to get 2 passengers for a 3 seat position.
With regards tot he airlines, they have to operate to the CAA rules and are fully aware of their aircraft limits before they leave the stand.

5 Apr 2013

Quote by MidsCouple24
OK Mids. You asked me a very stupid question, as to whether I can show you an example of an airplane flying with twice its payload. Now you show me an example of BA, Air France. KLM, Lufthansa, Emirates, Singapore Airlines, Qantas or any other major legacy carrier that has an aircraft fall from the sky due to it being overloaded. Oh that's right, you can't, same old same old cant provide the facts requested so come back and ask the person to provide facts, you do it in almost every thread you "contribute" to.
Trev was right about most modern airplanes having weight and balance systems. Do you honestly believe airlines leave it to rough guesswork? Honestly?. I never said that I quoted the CAA guidelines for assessing passenger weights it is you that said it was ridiculous to weigh people whilst later saying in smaller aircraft this was an important factor Star got it right when he said you make it up as you go along.
Go get yourself a job in the aviation industry, it clearly needs an expert such as you to ensure we all can fly safely in the future. BTW,, you may think I'm resorting to insults when I describe some of your postings as drivel but as far as I'm concerned, I'm merely stating fact.

You are Pathetic, never once on the forums have you admitted to being wrong or that someone with a slight or serious different opinion is right, oh to be so super intelligent and know everything, how wonderfull that must be, now being in charge of the CAA can you please tell me why you have issued rules and guidelines about the overloading of planes that carry up to 500 passengers a time ?
Thats right you cant can you, because your not the head of the CAA, you just agreed with someone that the smaller planes are at risk from passenger weight problems yet earlier you discount this as a factor, how can I have been wrong about the weight of passengers being a scientific factor when a plane takes off yet you be right about the same thing ? a plane is a plane no matter how many it carries so if a plane (remember a plane is a plane) takes off it fall into the category of being a plane that has to know what weight it carries, newer planes might well be able to calculate it's payload but not all planes are as advanced.
The CAA think this fact worthy of attention and the writing of warnings and guidelines but you don't, thank heaven you are not in charge. but don't worry I won't ask you to prove anything again because everytime I do you cannot or will not though it is your favourite pastime asking others for evidence it simply is not something you yourself are able to do.
In summary, I said aircraft taking off need to be aware of the passenger weight, you have said it was irrelevant and we never need to know but today you say sometime we do need to know especially in the case of smaller aircraft (the CAA advise on those carrying up to 500 souls).
I do know that a lot of aircraft are built recently and with modern technology but there a lot up there that are not. You cant carte blanche everything because some carry up to date technology and forget the older stuff.
You're entitled to your opinion and if you want to call me pathetic then so be it. Just to balance things out, my opinion of you is a bar room bore who loves the sound of his own voice, has an opinion on everything and knows fuck all about anything.
Look back over my posts and tell me where I have used the word irrelevant in respect to the weight an aircraft is carrying. You won't be able to. I asked you to cite me some examples of a passenger airliner falling out of the sky due to it being overweight as you stated that it was a fact that it happens. You responded with 2 examples of military aircraft then asked me a senseless question about supplying you with details of an aircraft flying with twice its payload. What relevance does that have? I was never talking about aircraft flying overladen. You were making up nonsensical scenarios of aircraft full of 300 obese people, not me. I also pointed out that that wouldn't double an aircrafts payload, obviously a fact that you failed to comprehend. All I've said in my posts is that airlines have systems in place to ensure the weight and balance of the payload is correct and within the safety guidelines, you're the one that's making accusations that airlines are flying airplanes that they have no idea of the weight they are carrying and therefore compromising safety as well as going off a completely irrelevant rant about sailors turning away from icebergs, strongmen conventions etc etc.
Now read Rogues post above for an intelligent and informed post.

5 Apr 2013

I can tell you categorically that weight and balance is critical for the safe operation of anything that flies.
Every aircraft has passengers, luggage and freight loaded very precisely to en sure that the aircraft centre of gravity is retained within design limitations. Assumptions are made about the weight of every passenger being 85 Kilo's but I understand that the FAA and EASA are increasing that to provided added safety margin.
The issue though is not maximum all up weight but the position of the centre of gravity. Modern jet airliners have massive lifting capability but a c of g out of design limits will be catastrophic even under weight.

13 Apr 2013

You pay for a seat on aircraft not a person. Therefore if the person fits into one seat that dictates the cost if they fit into two seats the buy two seats so extra weight is covered that way. Many people easily fit into one seat and are under the weight that would cause a problem so it all averages out.
Baggage is a choice. Weight in many cases isn't so it's hardly fair to be penalised for it IMO.
Fire xxx

9 Dec 2013

Two programmes this week relevant to this old topic.
Air Crash Investigation revealed passenger weight was one of the contributing factors to an the crash they investigated.
A programme on Channel 4 highlighted problems obese people encountered in everyday life, using 3 obese volunteers one of the tasks was to travel on an airplane, despite announcing before booking that they would need extra wide seating an being told that this wasn't a problem it did turn out to be a problem at the time of flying, one volunteer was actually remove from the plane because no suitable seat was available, the only suitable seats being next to the emergency exits and the pilot deemed this to be too dangerous for other passengers who might need to exit the plane quickly.

9 Dec 2013

So essentially the passenger was removed for a safety reason concerning his size, nothing to do with his weight.

9 Dec 2013

Seems to be a bit of a theme going on here lol

9 Dec 2013

Quote by nellie-mwgc
Seems to be a bit of a theme going on here lol

i was thinking the same :sad:

Are you sure?