Do you think the "student" protests at Millbank Tower have leant any weight to their argument over student fees?
Having watched the protest taking place on TV where "hoodies" and the usual rent-a-mob have hijacked the protest, it seems to me that they have now now lost the moral high ground by terrorising the thousand or so people in that building going about their everyday lives and have nothing whatsoever to do with the making of Government policy.
As I suggested with the prison "protest" last week, they should find the biggest ugliest Gendarme possible from within the security forces, equip them with starwars trooper type suits and big sticks like they do in France (who are also armed to the teeth with weapons that kill!) and go in hard to lift these toe rags and bring them to justice.
The cost of repairing Millbank Tower should be deducted from the University funding budget and not at the cost of the taxpayer.
We can learn a few things from the way China handles these matters...
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Student Protests
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Sex God
GnV, I think you'd need to demonstrate that the 200 or so 'protesters' carrying on at Millbank were actually students, and not just a load of hangers on hijacking the protest for their own agendas before you could even begin to say that todays events had somehow diminished the argument of the other 50000 peaceful student protesters. ((( Figures estimated from the coverage ))) The rooftop demonstrator quoted at 3:24pm in the article sounds like he properly belongs in your rent-a-mob category? Your suggestion that repair costs should come out of the university budget would tend to fall down at the very same hurdle.
N x x x ;)
N x x x ;)
They seem to be the ones carrying the banners, the sticks are being used as missiles to throw at Police and there are some silly little girls inside the building wetting their knickers egging them on.
Students in this case. The "rent-a-mob" trouble makers have now probably moved on having incited the riot so as not to get caught in the "blue cordon".
The NUS have culpability here. They promised the security forces a peaceful demo on which they didn't deliver. The Policing was arranged accordingly. Someone has to pay. Why should it be the tax payer? Students, like everyone else, have to learn that they are responsible for their actions.
Students in this case. The "rent-a-mob" trouble makers have now probably moved on having incited the riot so as not to get caught in the "blue cordon".
The NUS have culpability here. They promised the security forces a peaceful demo on which they didn't deliver. The Policing was arranged accordingly. Someone has to pay. Why should it be the tax payer? Students, like everyone else, have to learn that they are responsible for their actions.
Sex God
Hoodies are very popular among students I know I work in a building full of them every day. So it would be hard to say who's a student and who's rent a mob. Students paying for a rent a mob now theres a funny joke. What this does say is in bold and underlined, welcome back to Tory Brattain. Torys seem to attract violence like no other political party I can remember.
Not quite so tweeks.
The Labour administration banned such peaceful protests in and around Westminster. Perhaps that's why they weren't so obvious?
I doubt the NUS paid rent-a-mob. They are besides themselves with anger over the way their otherwise very effective campaign has been hijacked by those with another agenda.
The Labour administration banned such peaceful protests in and around Westminster. Perhaps that's why they weren't so obvious?
I doubt the NUS paid rent-a-mob. They are besides themselves with anger over the way their otherwise very effective campaign has been hijacked by those with another agenda.
Sex God
The cynical amoungst us might speculate that it suited "Our Rulers" very well that the Student protests turned violent. It diverted attention very well from the main arguement.
One might wonder who the "Rent-a-mob" were actually rented from? It only take a few people to start a "mob mentality" going.
John
One might wonder who the "Rent-a-mob" were actually rented from? It only take a few people to start a "mob mentality" going.
John
Sex God
From the same coverage earlier . . .
Hahahahahaha! In the news today, serving copper uses the actions of a mere handful of protesters allegedly protesting about cuts in an otherwise peaceful march protesting about cuts numbering in the tens of thousands to protest against cuts?
Beyond parody! Irony at its very best. 
Seems like there's all kinds of agendas on this one, and I'm not sure any more who's meant to be using who? ;)
N x x x ;)
A spokesman for the Metropolitan Police Federation has said today's protests should serve as a reminder to the government to maintain police numbers.
He said officers had shown "great restraint and professionalism", but added:
"It is a reminder that the Government must maintain the number of fully warranted police officers to ensure that policing these spontaneous incidents, along with their everyday duties, can be sustained in the capital," he added.
Hahahahahaha! In the news today, serving copper uses the actions of a mere handful of protesters allegedly protesting about cuts in an otherwise peaceful march protesting about cuts numbering in the tens of thousands to protest against cuts?
Beyond parody! Irony at its very best. Seems like there's all kinds of agendas on this one, and I'm not sure any more who's meant to be using who? ;)N x x x ;)
Quote by Kaznkev
I think its great to see students still adhere to some of the old like a good old occupation.
Tories in power,huge job losses,riots on the streets,ahhhh the good old days.
You subscribe to lawlessness then Kaz?
Shameful.
In Paris, at any one time, the are companies of CRS - Riot Police - sat on street corners just waiting for public disorder to take place then they go in hard and bang a few heads together to break the monotony. As well as being well equipped for the job, they are tooled up with weapons that kill, as indeed are all Police and Gendarme, and they are not afraid to use these weapons in order to restore order.
Is that what people want to see on the streets of London?
The PF are shroud waving. What Chief's of Police are being asked to do is not reduce the number of officers on the street but to improve on the availability of what resources they already have. There is nothing wrong in that but the PF is being somewhat protectionist in attempting to keep in pace systems of work which allow officers to spend inordinate lengths of time in the station billiard room waiting for prisoners to be "processed". That has to end.
Sex God
Quote by GnV
I think its great to see students still adhere to some of the old like a good old occupation.
Tories in power,huge job losses,riots on the streets,ahhhh the good old days.
You subscribe to lawlessness then Kaz?
Shameful.
In Paris, at any one time, the are companies of CRS - Riot Police - sat on street corners just waiting for public disorder to take place then they go in hard and bang a few heads together to break the monotony. As well as being well equipped for the job, they are tooled up with weapons that kill, as indeed are all Police and Gendarme, and they are not afraid to use these weapons in order to restore order.
Is that what people want to see on the streets of London?
The PF are shroud waving. What Chief's of Police are being asked to do is not reduce the number of officers on the street but to improve on the availability of what resources they already have. There is nothing wrong in that but the PF is being somewhat protectionist in attempting to keep in pace systems of work which allow officers to spend inordinate lengths of time in the station billiard room waiting for prisoners to be "processed". That has to end.
Funny the same French police seem useless at controlling truck drivers
To be honest GNV I dont think for one second the British public would put up with such heavy handedness from its police force. This is not France things work different here. In 1992 in Bristol where I live two men were killed on a stolen police motorcycle, allegedly the police car deliberately knocked them off. The good residents of Hartcliffe
rioted for 3 days and Symes avenue shopping district looked like a war zone afterwards. If you add into the mix this kind of heavy handedness against protesters and rioters I think you will just end up with more of them as varying groups such as human rights protesters etc join in.To be honest I dont think the government will get more heavy handed as that could bring one death and we all know what a fuss that causes. What happened today has been seen before and will be seen again. In the UK we are simply used to seeing this kind of thing.
Sex God
am totally disgusted and I wholly condemn such disgraceful behaviour. I fully support the right to peacefully protest, but once the thugs turn to violence I soon loose all support.
We all have to face these cuts, even the spoilt little rich kids.
No one has to pay up front, so they can afford to go to uni, despite their placards today, they do not have to pay back any money until they earn a good wage.
As an ordinary tax payer I do not wish to pay for higher education. If you wish to go on to higher education you will have to pay for it, sounds far to me.
We all have to face these cuts, even the spoilt little rich kids.
No one has to pay up front, so they can afford to go to uni, despite their placards today, they do not have to pay back any money until they earn a good wage.
As an ordinary tax payer I do not wish to pay for higher education. If you wish to go on to higher education you will have to pay for it, sounds far to me.
Quote by Kaznkev
I think its great to see students still adhere to some of the old like a good old occupation.
Tories in power,huge job losses,riots on the streets,ahhhh the good old days.
Having just seen footage on the news of someone throwing a fire extinguisher from the roof of the building, with the potential harm it would cause a person struck by it, and the potential for the extinguisher exploding, I find your attitude disgraceful.
Of course you are safe tapping away at a keyboard, others have not been so lucky.
Quote by tweeky
Funny the same French police seem useless at controlling truck drivers
To be honest GNV I dont think for one second the British public would put up with such heavy handedness from its police force. This is not France things work different here. In 1992 in Bristol where I live two men were killed on a stolen police motorcycle, allegedly the police car deliberately knocked them off. The good residents of Hartcliffe
To be honest I dont think the government will get more heavy handed as that could bring one death and we all know what a fuss that causes. What happened today has been seen before and will be seen again. In the UK we are simply used to seeing this kind of thing.
The French love a good protest. Often they will be more than helpful to the protesters who have generally notified well in advance what they plan to do.
What they will not tolerate is when it spills out to public disorder, burning cars, rioting and looting. They will always come down hard on that. But it's the Frenchman's right to make his protest and the Police will always respect that.
You are quite right of course, Britain is not France. I believe you are quite right; people don't want to see that sort of presence on the streets of London and the measured response by the MP is commendable. Pity now though, as the MP will not respect peaceful protest quite so easily and in the wake of today's events, the MP will have to maintain a significant presence in order to respond more quickly than the critics will give them credit for.
Quote by essex34m
And aren't these 'protesters' brave behind their masks?
Yeah, but aren't some of them just fucking plain stupid as they took the masks off to be photo'd by their mates on their camera phones! In plain view of TV cameras and Police Video units.
Beggars belief!
And one silly little girl even had the audacity to suggest that the MP response was "a bit over the top" when interview on live TV!!
Britain's finest future, eh?
Quote by Bluefish2009
am totally disgusted and I wholly condemn such disgraceful behaviour. I fully support the right to peacefully protest, but once the thugs turn to violence I soon loose all support.
We all have to face these cuts, even the spoilt little rich kids.
No one has to pay up front, so they can afford to go to uni, despite their placards today, they do not have to pay back any money until they earn a good wage.
As an ordinary tax payer I do not wish to pay for higher education. If you wish to go on to higher education you will have to pay for it, sounds far to me.
I agree with this.
They go to college to get themselves further education because it is seen as a way of gaining more fruitful employment than those that do not gain further education. A significant number of employers see a college education as something that is more important than life experience.
So if the students want to gain that advantage, they should IMO pay for it.
Sex God
I don't condone violence, even if it is directed against the Tories.
And, yes the violence today has distracted from the real cause, and has given the real cause a negative slant that we did not want.
However, I want to just reply to this point, if I may.
So, as an ordinary tax payer, you do not wish to benefit from higher education?
If so, when you are ill you do not wish to be treated by medical professionals who have received university education?
You do not wish your children to be taught by teaching professionals who have received a university education?
You do not wish to be protected by people in the police and legal institutions who have received a university education?
You do not wish to benefit from research and technological advances from those who have received a university education?
I could go on, but I think I have made my point.
Modern society cannot exist without higher education. We all, in modern society, benefit from those who have been to university. Every day. We may not realise it but we do. As tax payers, we should pay for services that benefit society - that includes the education necessary to keep society running.
And it must be remembered that not everyone who gets a degree is highly paid yet who benefit society greatly.
That is all.
And, yes the violence today has distracted from the real cause, and has given the real cause a negative slant that we did not want.
However, I want to just reply to this point, if I may.
Quote by Bluefish2009
As an ordinary tax payer I do not wish to pay for higher education. If you wish to go on to higher education you will have to pay for it, sounds far to me.
So, as an ordinary tax payer, you do not wish to benefit from higher education?
If so, when you are ill you do not wish to be treated by medical professionals who have received university education?
You do not wish your children to be taught by teaching professionals who have received a university education?
You do not wish to be protected by people in the police and legal institutions who have received a university education?
You do not wish to benefit from research and technological advances from those who have received a university education?
I could go on, but I think I have made my point.
Modern society cannot exist without higher education. We all, in modern society, benefit from those who have been to university. Every day. We may not realise it but we do. As tax payers, we should pay for services that benefit society - that includes the education necessary to keep society running.
And it must be remembered that not everyone who gets a degree is highly paid yet who benefit society greatly.
That is all.
Quote by bluexxx
I don't condone violence, even if it is directed against the Tories.
And, yes the violence today has distracted from the real cause, and has given the real cause a negative slant that we did not want.
However, I want to just reply to this point, if I may.
As an ordinary tax payer I do not wish to pay for higher education. If you wish to go on to higher education you will have to pay for it, sounds far to me.
So, as an ordinary tax payer, you do not wish to benefit from higher education?
If so, when you are ill you do not wish to be treated by medical professionals who have received university education?
You do not wish your children to be taught by teaching professionals who have received a university education?
You do not wish to be protected by people in the police and legal institutions who have received a university education?
You do not wish to benefit from research and technological advances from those who have received a university education?
I could go on, but I think I have made my point.
Modern society cannot exist without higher education. We all, in modern society, benefit from those who have been to university. Every day. We may not realise it but we do. As tax payers, we should pay for services that benefit society - that includes the education necessary to keep society running.
And it must be remembered that not everyone who gets a degree is highly paid yet who benefit society greatly.
That is all.
Having read your point, my view has changed, I hadn't seen it that way.
Thank you cutiepie.
Quote by flower411
You`ve obviously never had to consult a solicitor ....you pay through the nose for them !!
Or an Architect .....fuckin expensive !!
A surveyor ....
All of the people you have named earn shed loads of money .... why shouldn`t they have to pay for the privelige ......frankly I`d rather have people who had known about their responsibilites before they started fleecing the rest of us ...
If it`s such a good idea to pay for these peoples education why are our hospitals and medical practices full of doctors from overseas ?? ....That`s a fuckin easy one to answer ....it`s because becoming a doctor or surgeon is hard work and the freeloaders at our universities don`t want to have anything to do with that !!
Ooh, I like your point too.
Oh god, I'm turning more than a politician in a scandal here.
Sex God
Quote by bluexxx
I don't condone violence, even if it is directed against the Tories.
And, yes the violence today has distracted from the real cause, and has given the real cause a negative slant that we did not want.
However, I want to just reply to this point, if I may.
As an ordinary tax payer I do not wish to pay for higher education. If you wish to go on to higher education you will have to pay for it, sounds far to me.
So, as an ordinary tax payer, you do not wish to benefit from higher education?
If so, when you are ill you do not wish to be treated by medical professionals who have received university education?
You do not wish your children to be taught by teaching professionals who have received a university education?
You do not wish to be protected by people in the police and legal institutions who have received a university education?
You do not wish to benefit from research and technological advances from those who have received a university education?
I could go on, but I think I have made my point.
Modern society cannot exist without higher education. We all, in modern society, benefit from those who have been to university. Every day. We may not realise it but we do. As tax payers, we should pay for services that benefit society - that includes the education necessary to keep society running.
And it must be remembered that not everyone who gets a degree is highly paid yet who benefit society greatly.
That is all.
I still do not agree, As far as I am concerned if you wish to have a better education you should pay for it, not me!
I have qualification to do my job, I have to finance these my self. If the government are happy to finance everybody training then all well and good, until that time....
Sex God
Quote by Bluefish2009
I still do not agree, As far as I am concerned if you wish to have a better education you should pay for it, not me!
Then of course you'll be against the Charitable Status of Public Schools such as Eton. After all if the rich get tax help to educate their offspring it comes out of our taxes indirectly. Ask just about any member of the Cabinet if they think the Public School system has any advantages !!
John
Quote by Geordiecpl2001
I still do not agree, As far as I am concerned if you wish to have a better education you should pay for it, not me!
Then of course you'll be against the Charitable Status of Public Schools such as Eton. After all if the rich get tax help to educate their offspring it comes out of our taxes indirectly. Ask just about any member of the Cabinet if they think the Public School system has any advantages !!
John
Public Schools are no different in their charitable status to other private schools and all UK universities.
having watched various clips of the lone masked hooded, fit bodied, student raming a window, with aghast looking, unmasked students onlooking, and prepared journalists and photographers filming, unchallenged and not detained or arrested, i can only conclude that it was a stage managed provocation that only serves the interests of the state and demotes the message of the protest below that of violence, rioting and hooliganism.
in no way do i or any other sane people condone this wanton vandalism and i'm absolutley sure no other student does either.
in no way do i or any other sane people condone this wanton vandalism and i'm absolutley sure no other student does either.
Quote by gulsonroad30664
having watched various clips of the lone masked hooded, fit bodied, student raming a window, with aghast looking, unmasked students onlooking, and prepared journalists and photographers filming, unchallenged and not detained or arrested, i can only conclude that it was a stage managed provocation that only serves the interests of the state and demotes the message of the protest below that of violence, rioting and hooliganism.
in no way do i or any other sane people condone this wanton vandalism and i'm absolutley sure no other student does either.
I would have been surprised had you expressed any other view Gulson and I wouldn't be too sure of your last statement either.
Sex God
Quote by Bluefish2009
am totally disgusted and I wholly condemn such disgraceful behaviour. I fully support the right to peacefully protest, but once the thugs turn to violence I soon loose all support.
Really? If I have a view on something I have a view on it for a number of reasons. Someone rioting in London in support of that view or against that view wont change my opinion on the matter. I dont really care what a few people in minority do its not as though every student in the UK is in London rioting.
I dont actually support their cause but if I did this would not change my view point.
Adressing the rest of the thread. I dont actually have a problem with paying tax for higher education if There were a lot of changes made. Uni is too much of a holiday. Courses need to be cut to more essential courses and the amount of years a course takes needs to be severely shortened and intensified. I dont mind paying for a student to go to uni and train for XXXXXX job thats useful to society or mankind in an intense learning environment. What you get right now is students doing wanky courses of no use to anyone other than them and even thats debatable. Students going to uni just so they dont have to go to work for another three years and they fancy a bit of a party. Still on the streets drunk at 7am and going to lectures. Having a learning life experience which includes a university employee who visits three times a week and cleans your cooker and toilet
??: All of those I wouldn't pay tax for 
Quote by gulsonroad30664
having watched various clips of the lone masked hooded, fit bodied, student raming a window, with aghast looking, unmasked students onlooking, and prepared journalists and photographers filming, unchallenged and not detained or arrested, i can only conclude that it was a stage managed provocation that only serves the interests of the state and demotes the message of the protest below that of violence, rioting and hooliganism.
in no way do i or any other sane people condone this wanton vandalism and i'm absolutley sure no other student does either.
I saw that clip too. At that time, some officers who were not kitted out for riot duties were attending to a fire facing a raging bull of a crowd.
That officer was brave indeed but it would have been futile to have attempted to arrest that person without proper backup.
Discretion is the better part of valour in such circumstances and whilst one clip shows this person to be masked, a later one shows the mindless moron with uncovered face from which I'm sure he can be identified if he is already known to the security forces.
Sexlightened
Quote by flower411
When the bin men stop collecting and the baker stops baking we would know about it within days ..... when the architect stops or the solicitor gives up it might take years before society actually noticed !!
Let`s pay for important stuff ! :thumbup:
Well,you may well get your wish soon when the cuts are made, certainly with the binmen will be interesting to see what happens on future protests over cuts, remember the Poll Tax riot, I can see the same level of anger out there at the moment!
I am however amazed that the students are so shocked, LibDem politicians caught lying jeez,what a surprise ! Although the NUS are promising some interesting direct action on that 's in seats won through student votes should be very wary !
Quote by medway_garage
I am however amazed that the students are so shocked, LibDem politicians caught lying jeez,what a surprise ! Although the NUS are promising some interesting direct action on that 's in seats won through student votes should be very wary !
It's a long way to go to the election yet!
A week is a very long time in Politics, 4 years is a lifetime!
Personally, I can't see the problems here with the LibDem MP's. OK, They signed a pledge which, if they had won the election, it could be argued they would be morally bound by. However, they didn't win the election; they are not masters of their own destiny here as thy might otherwise have been but what they have achieved in moderating the ConDem Alliance's approach to this is commendable.
