Thatcher-- E Petition

23 Dec 2011

Quote by essex34m
One thing that amuses or baffles me in any conversation/discussion/bickering about Thatcher, is that you get the usual Labour supporters spill their hatred for what she did to this country, yet conveniently forget that she left power in 1990, to be replaced by John Major, who then became Prime Minister for 7 years. Labour were elected into power in 1997, and despite being in power for 13 years, did nothing to change some people's views that the problems with this country is all the fault of Thatcher.

I remember the Labour party during her reign and every decision she made, they all said "we will buy back any privatised companies when we get in power" "we will get rid of this poll/council tax when we get in power", "we will lower VAT when we get in power", "we will help get the coal mines working again when we get in power", we will buy back all the council houses when we get in power", and let's think, how many of her so called crazy things did they change ?

23 Dec 2011

mids seeing as the labour party are funded by the unions and the unions hold block votes on choosing a new leeder, how many of the union reforms did they change that thatcher put in? not a single one that i know of. wonder why? maybe curbing the unions power even new labour thought was a grand idea :thumbup:

28 Dec 2011

Quote by Max777
:thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:
But not at the vitriolic left wing views expressed on here then?

possibly a labour supporter then dunno

There does seem to be a rather more deep seated bitterness expressed in those views.
Possibly a Tory/libdem/coalition supporter?
pots, kettles and black :dunno:
:thumbup:
See you still haven't managed to take that foot out of your mouth
Thank you Max, i was merely expressing my agreement with the statement. However i would suggest on balance the right wing views are far more vitriolic than those expressed by the posters who may have more left or even middle ground leaning tendencies. but then that is the nature of right wing thinkers i assume.

28 Dec 2011

Quote by Onthebeach_1
However i would suggest on balance the right wing views are far more vitriolic than those expressed by the posters who may have more left or even middle ground leaning tendencies. but then that is the nature of right wing thinkers i assume.

of course you only " assume ". you dont know? how strange.
that is so bounteous of you being a left wing thinker and all that. rotflmao

28 Dec 2011

Quote by MidsCouple24
One thing that amuses or baffles me in any conversation/discussion/bickering about Thatcher, is that you get the usual Labour supporters spill their hatred for what she did to this country, yet conveniently forget that she left power in 1990, to be replaced by John Major, who then became Prime Minister for 7 years. Labour were elected into power in 1997, and despite being in power for 13 years, did nothing to change some people's views that the problems with this country is all the fault of Thatcher.

I remember the Labour party during her reign and every decision she made, they all said "we will buy back any privatised companies when we get in power" "we will get rid of this poll/council tax when we get in power", "we will lower VAT when we get in power", "we will help get the coal mines working again when we get in power", we will buy back all the council houses when we get in power", and let's think, how many of her so called crazy things did they change ?
Labour lost power in 1979 and they finally regained power in 1997. There was a huge difference in the party. Nearly all of the "socialist" principles had been dropped (mainly because they were making Labour 'unelectable' in the eyes of the general public) and the leader in '97 was Tony Blair, who freely admits that Thatcher was one of his idols. In '97, all 3 main parties were chasing the votes of the middle-class, middle-England "Mondeo Man". Any socialist principles the Labour party may have had, had long since been abandoned.

28 Dec 2011

Quote by ziltoid
Labour lost power in 1979 and they finally regained power in 1997. There was a huge difference in the party. Nearly all of the "socialist" principles had been dropped (mainly because they were making Labour 'unelectable' in the eyes of the general public) and the leader in '97 was Tony Blair, who freely admits that Thatcher was one of his idols. In '97, all 3 main parties were chasing the votes of the middle-class, middle-England "Mondeo Man". Any socialist principles the Labour party may have had, had long since been abandoned.

And still they have no principles.. :lol2:

28 Dec 2011

Quote by Onthebeach_1
:thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:
But not at the vitriolic left wing views expressed on here then?

possibly a labour supporter then dunno

There does seem to be a rather more deep seated bitterness expressed in those views.
Possibly a Tory/libdem/coalition supporter?
pots, kettles and black :dunno:
:thumbup:
See you still haven't managed to take that foot out of your mouth
Thank you Max, i was merely expressing my agreement with the statement. However i would suggest on balance the right wing views are far more vitriolic than those expressed by the posters who may have more left or even middle ground leaning tendencies. but then that is the nature of right wing thinkers i assume.
Assuming is dangerous. Try doing a little research and you may find that your assumptions are inaccurate.

28 Dec 2011

i read yesterday that the BBC had already started on tony Blair's obituary blink

28 Dec 2011

Quote by Lizaleanrob
i read yesterday that the BBC had already started on tony Blair's obituary

Think he could well be remembered as the man that took us to war on lies and misinformation and attempted to ban hunting
Both turned out to be major cock-ups!!

28 Dec 2011

Quote by Bluefish2009
i read yesterday that the BBC had already started on tony Blair's obituary

Think he could well be remembered as the man that took us to war on lies and misinformation and attempted to ban hunting
Both turned out to be major cock-ups!!
i dont know why but the words "gravy train" always comes to mind when his name comes up blue

28 Dec 2011

Quote by Bluefish2009
Both turned out to be major cock-ups!!

because blue he is the biggest of cocks. :grin:

30 Dec 2011

Quote by Starlight
maybe curbing the unions power even new labour thought was a grand idea

What union power? What power do you think they had by 1997? They'd been broken by then, and so had the union's base. There was nothing to give back?

Quote by MidsCouple24
One thing that amuses or baffles me in any conversation/discussion/bickering about Thatcher, is that you get the usual Labour supporters spill their hatred for what she did to this country, yet conveniently forget that she left power in 1990, to be replaced by John Major, who then became Prime Minister for 7 years. Labour were elected into power in 1997, and despite being in power for 13 years, did nothing to change some people's views that the problems with this country is all the fault of Thatcher.

I remember the Labour party during her reign and every decision she made, they all said "we will buy back any privatised companies when we get in power" "we will get rid of this poll/council tax when we get in power", "we will lower VAT when we get in power", "we will help get the coal mines working again when we get in power", we will buy back all the council houses when we get in power", and let's think, how many of her so called crazy things did they change ?
This is a charge often levelled at the Labour Party . . . . Why didn't you undo it once you had power? The obvious answer is, you can't bring something back once it's gone. You can't buy back council houses once they've been sold off at a fraction of market rates? You can't bring back manufacturing industry once the infrastructure has been sold? Pits deteriorate within months. You can't bring back a steel industry once you've sold all the foundries lock, stock, and barrel to India, which is where we in the U.K. steel industry currently buy lots of our steel from. We now buy a bit of ours from Sheffield, and a little bit from the Midlands, but we mainly buy it from the Punjab. On a global scale it mainly comes from China. Sheffield has specialised, cos there's nothing left there that they can deliver in bulk.
By the time the Labour Party came back into power, the traditional sources of UK and union power had gone. All they had left was the financial services industry the previous Tory Govt had given free reign to, post Big-Bang. No wonder they cosied up to them. As did the vast majority of the population who poured their savings into a credit / housing bubble thinking it would last forever. Everyone blames the banks, but I hear very few of those who took out 125% mortgages at 4 times salary blaming themselves? Too many people in this country bought into the credit bubble, and it weren't the govt what told 'em to do that, or even the banks? It was their own greed. And you know what? It's the people who didn't have such luxuries who are now paying.

30 Dec 2011

Quote by neilinleeds
. You can't bring back a steel industry once you've sold all the foundries lock, stock, and barrel to India, which is where we in the U.K. steel industry currently buy lots of our steel from. We now buy a bit of ours from Sheffield, and a little bit from the Midlands, but we mainly buy it from the Punjab. On a global scale it mainly comes from China. Sheffield has specialised, cos there's nothing left there that they can deliver in bulk.

Neil,
Under EU legislation, the UK government was obliged to withdraw subsidies to the steel industry.
British Steel was privatised in 1988 and merged with a Dutch company to form the Corus Group in 1999. It wasn't sold to the Indians (Tata) until 2007.

30 Dec 2011

Quote by neilinleeds
[
Everyone blames the banks, but I hear very few of those who took out 125% mortgages at 4 times salary blaming themselves?

Wise words.

31 Dec 2011

Quote by neilinleeds
Everyone blames the banks, but I hear very few of those who took out 125% mortgages at 4 times salary blaming themselves? Too many people in this country bought into the credit bubble, and it weren't the govt what told 'em to do that, or even the banks? It was their own greed. And you know what? It's the people who didn't have such luxuries who are now paying.

I make two points of view on this... from a debt free position (now) but having experienced the system as described by neil.
The first point is that, as we were self employed, we were not able to obtain a mortgage by conventional means as the banking/actuarial system was geared to people in employment who could produce payslips going back in time. We didn't get payslips - we didn't get 'paid' in the conventional sense, we took 'drawings' which bore no relationship to 'profits' and presented sets of accounts. Trouble was, the banks required 3 years' worth of accounts for conventional lending purposes. In the meantime, where were we supposed to live?
So yes, the '125% self certified mortgage' was a useful tool at the time for us and one which we unashamedly exploited to the full. It also provided much needed cheap finance (even if it was more expensive than 'conventional' mortgages) for the business at a critical time. There is absolutely nothing wrong in that and it is only people with small minded attitudes and unwise to the real world who make these misinformed comments about bank lending.
The second point is that you cannot entirely place the blame for poor lending policies on the borrower. The lender has a commercial duty to protect its interests (those of the investors since it is their money which is being used in this way) and it generally did so eminently well in our experience. Those borrowers who were at the point of over stretching themselves and didn't have their finger on the button (or buried their heads in the sand) were the ones most exposed. There were times we found ourselves in denial but having shaken ourselves out of it (later rather than sooner, perhaps) and started taking positive steps to protect our own position rather than just rely on others who undoubtedly had a different agenda (and us a lesser priority!) to do so, we were able to meet our obligations on the borrowings, pay it all off and now enjoy the relative tranquillity of a debt free existence within our new means.
Things change dramatically over time from the point at which the borrowing begins to the point where it ends (in whatever fashion). Some changes along the way are unforeseeable but you should always be mindful of these wise words:
"The man who never made a mistake, never made anything".

31 Dec 2011

Quote by GnV
"The man who never made a mistake, never made anything".

Wise words indeed