Thatcher -surely last nail in her coffin

15 Jul 2014

Quote by GnV
and there is no excuse for anyone that stands by and allows it to happen.

So then, why no condemnation for Gilberthorpe who said he recruited underage boys for sex and stood by, watched them being abused AND DID NOTHING!
There is no credible evidence from this self confessed which links Mrs T to the horrors of this scandal other than he, allegedly, handed her a multi-page dossier which no-one else seems to know about. He was asked if there was any evidence and he effectively said there was not.
Is it just faintly possible that the reason HE has not been prosecuted is that there is NOT A SHRED of evidence to back up this fantasist's claims that Mrs Thatcher was in any way involved, informed or ever aware of the claims he says he made.
Whether the good Baroness ever cast eyes on the letter remains uncertain. A Civil Servant allegedly did (according to the discredited Gilberthorpe) and he also claims he held a meeting with William Hague but William denies a meeting of such substance ever taking place.
So then dean, evidence, not half brained suppositions based on your obvious dislike for the dear Lady.
As I said earlier and will repeat again (since you need it about 3 times before the penny drops) no-one is talking about child abuse as if it didn't matter so stop shedding those crocodile tears and get real!
What is happening now is a more pragmatic approach to ensuring it never happens again.
Both YOU and Tom Watson may want the good Baroness' head on a pike on the railings of the Palace of Westminster BUT, read my lips...
IT IS NOT GOING TO HAPPEN!!!!!!!!!!
She is NOT implicated, she never was and it is only in the mind of cretins and chancers that there is any case to answer.
End of.
well...best go back and read the links I posted GNV....there is plenty of evidence not just the dossier..,...and yeah let poor man lie in rest, is what they were saying about Jimmy Saville when all the allegations started!!!!..but as I have clearly said all along..it is purely an allegation at this stage....and I will hold full judgement until it is shown one way or the other....but I ask you to answer my question
IF....evidence does show she knew and turned a blind eye to abuse, would you outrightly condemn her and her actions !! Simple enough question....just seems people want to dodge round it !!

15 Jul 2014

I'm a realist dean. I only deal in fact. There is nothing to condemn.
It's not a simple enough question and well you know it.
Demanding that people answer hypothetical questions in respect of which people can lie through their back teeth (for their own nefarious purposes) knowing full well that they cannot be challenged by the person against whom such accusations are levelled smacks of a communist totalitarian state.
I do not, in any circumstances, subscribe to or play mind games with people on that basis, nor waste valuable time awake chasing (other people's) pipe dreams.

15 Jul 2014

Quote by GnV
I'm a realist dean. I only deal in fact. There is nothing to condemn.
It's not a simple enough question and well you know it.
Demanding that people answer hypothetical questions in respect of which people can lie through their back teeth (for their own nefarious purposes) knowing full well that they cannot be challenged by the person against whom such accusations are levelled smacks of a communist totalitarian state.
I do not, in any circumstances, subscribe to or play mind games with people on that basis, nor waste valuable time awake chasing (other people's) pipe dreams.

so you think Jimmy Saville was innocent then !!! he was simply set up by communists..lol
I shall simply say I am truly shocked and that anyone is not willing to condemn abuse and anyone that has any association with it.

15 Jul 2014

Quote by deancannock
I'm a realist dean. I only deal in fact. There is nothing to condemn.
It's not a simple enough question and well you know it.
Demanding that people answer hypothetical questions in respect of which people can lie through their back teeth (for their own nefarious purposes) knowing full well that they cannot be challenged by the person against whom such accusations are levelled smacks of a communist totalitarian state.
I do not, in any circumstances, subscribe to or play mind games with people on that basis, nor waste valuable time awake chasing (other people's) pipe dreams.

so you think Jimmy Saville was innocent then !!! he was simply set up by communists..lol
I shall simply say I am truly shocked and that anyone is not willing to condemn abuse and anyone that has any association with it.
That is a completely different question to the hypothetical one you have asking.
In this thread, no-one has failed to condemn abuse. What people have refused to do thus far however is play out your silly fantasy that Margaret Thatcher was a raging sex monster.
Still no condemnation from you about Gilberthorpe's admission that he went in search of underage boys and watched them being abused then because he tries to finger MT?
Double standards?

15 Jul 2014

Quote by GnV
I'm a realist dean. I only deal in fact. There is nothing to condemn.
It's not a simple enough question and well you know it.
Demanding that people answer hypothetical questions in respect of which people can lie through their back teeth (for their own nefarious purposes) knowing full well that they cannot be challenged by the person against whom such accusations are levelled smacks of a communist totalitarian state.
I do not, in any circumstances, subscribe to or play mind games with people on that basis, nor waste valuable time awake chasing (other people's) pipe dreams.

so you think Jimmy Saville was innocent then !!! he was simply set up by communists..lol
I shall simply say I am truly shocked and that anyone is not willing to condemn abuse and anyone that has any association with it.
That is a completely different question to the hypothetical one you have asking.
In this thread, no-one has failed to condemn abuse. What people have refused to do thus far however is play out your silly fantasy that Margaret Thatcher was a raging sex monster.
Still no condemnation from you about Gilberthorpe's admission that he went in search of underage boys and watched them being abused then because he tries to finger MT?
Double standards?
Openly condemned anyone that know anything about abuse and did nothing. Don't care if they black, white Tory or Communist..without hesitation condemn. Anyone that has any association and does nothing I 100% condemn and hope they rot in hell. Maybe you would like to say the same...because as of yet you haven't !!!

15 Jul 2014

Quote by dean
Openly condemned anyone that know anything about abuse and did nothing.

Where in this thread do you condemn Gilberthorpe?
See, the difference between you and me and why I won't play your game in condemning MT is that the law and justice is best left to the place where it belongs, the Courts.
The French, whose company I now enjoy more than any other, left scurrilous and petty revenge behind at the French Revolution at the end of the 18th Century having learnt it achieves nothing.
I totally subscribe to that doctrine.
Condemning people and punishing them is the job of the Courts. The word exists in the English language of course but it is in two contexts. What is certain, under the terms of the Magna Carta, is that it is not a right in English law for people to 'condemn' per se without all the evidence and a hearing within the terms and spirit of the law and natural justice. Moreover, a cadaver cannot be tried.
What you seek to do offends everything that is good (what's left of it) in the system of British Justice. There is some evidence that people have been executed by thugs on the streets of Britain because of their belief that someone was a or in some other way 'different' without a shred of proof. I think the last case was particularly horrible. A completely innocent man with disabilities was set on fire in the street by murderous thugs who had no respect for the rule of law.
If that is the sort of society to which you subscribe, then I pity you and will remain ever grateful that we will never, knowingly, have the chance to meet.

15 Jul 2014

Quote by GnV
Openly condemned anyone that know anything about abuse and did nothing.

Where in this thread do you condemn Gilberthorpe?
See, the difference between you and me and why I won't play your game in condemning MT is that the law and justice is best left to the place where it belongs, the Courts.
The French, whose company I now enjoy more than any other, left scurrilous and petty revenge behind at the French Revolution at the end of the 18th Century having learnt it achieves nothing.
I totally subscribe to that doctrine.
Condemning people and punishing them is the job of the Courts. The word exists in the English language of course but it is in two contexts. What is certain, under the terms of the Magna Carta, is that it is not a right in English law for people to 'condemn' per se without all the evidence and a hearing within the terms and spirit of the law and natural justice. Moreover, a cadaver cannot be tried.
What you seek to do offends everything that is good (what's left of it) in the system of British Justice. There is some evidence that people have been executed by thugs on the streets of Britain because of their belief that someone was a or in some other way 'different' without a shred of proof. I think the last case was particularly horrible. A completely innocent man with disabilities was set on fire in the street by murderous thugs who had no respect for the rule of law.
If that is the sort of society to which you subscribe, then I pity you and will remain ever grateful that we will never, knowingly, have the chance to meet.
you have quoted me saying I condemn anyone that has any connection to abuse.....(..something you seem unable to do...)...Is Gilberthorpe not anyone !! I won't turn a blind eye to anyone....I also would also openly condemn anyone that would try and take the law into their own hands. But what we do know is that there are abuse going on right now, and people who know are not coming forward. This is what I condemn....and I am simply appalled that it seems others can not bring themselves to say the same.

15 Jul 2014

Vote for me !!
I'll tell you what. I think you need to know, so that you'll keep voting for me.
OK there may be some occasional scurrilous rumours, so for these I'll consider an enquiry and because you voted for me I'll choose who leads the enquiry, it's terms of reference into what they can look at (obviously limiting what they can't because it will be outside their terms of reference ), oh and when the enquiry will report back
Vote for me, because parliamentary privilege helps protect us. Oh and if that is inconvenient , then the papers can be covered by the Official Secrets Acts (yes there are more then one), plus if anything becomes official then the paperwork will be sealed for at least 30years.
Vote for me, because the Civil Service is staffed by civil Servants and as the elected power like all servants they do as they are told, so no need for a memo or verbatim records.
This is the way it has been and as one of the oldest Parliaments, this will how it continues. It's why many don't like external interference because you lot voted for me.
And you wonder why so many have no interest in politics and our parliamentary system with associated support model hasn't really changed for decades, because you voted for me and I've no desire to change the system I know and know my way around.
If you want to change it, then vote for me or the look-a-like me over there.
:small-print::small-print:

15 Jul 2014

Quote by deancannock
. This is what I condemn....and I am simply appalled that it seems others can not bring themselves to say the same.

You're all over the place, almost apoplectic that others are not condemning Mrs T for the alleged 'brushing under the carpet' of as yet unsubstantiated
allegations of an sexual offence against a minor by as yet unnamed ministers and yet by virtue of you voting for Labour thus Blair post the realisation of there not being any WMD you have condoned his actions of sending British Troops and Iraqi citizens to their 'needless deaths?
Hypocrisy at it's best

15 Jul 2014

Quote by deancannock
I'm a realist dean. I only deal in fact. There is nothing to condemn.
It's not a simple enough question and well you know it.
Demanding that people answer hypothetical questions in respect of which people can lie through their back teeth (for their own nefarious purposes) knowing full well that they cannot be challenged by the person against whom such accusations are levelled smacks of a communist totalitarian state.
I do not, in any circumstances, subscribe to or play mind games with people on that basis, nor waste valuable time awake chasing (other people's) pipe dreams.

so you think Jimmy Saville was innocent then !!! he was simply set up by communists..lol
I shall simply say I am truly shocked and that anyone is not willing to condemn abuse and anyone that has any association with it.
That is a completely different question to the hypothetical one you have asking.
In this thread, no-one has failed to condemn abuse. What people have refused to do thus far however is play out your silly fantasy that Margaret Thatcher was a raging sex monster.
Still no condemnation from you about Gilberthorpe's admission that he went in search of underage boys and watched them being abused then because he tries to finger MT?
Double standards?
Openly condemned anyone that know anything about abuse and did nothing. Don't care if they black, white Tory or Communist..without hesitation condemn. Anyone that has any association and does nothing I 100% condemn and hope they rot in hell. Maybe you would like to say the same...because as of yet you haven't !!!
:thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:

15 Jul 2014

Quote by deancannock
Openly condemned anyone that know anything about abuse and did nothing.

Where in this thread do you condemn Gilberthorpe?
See, the difference between you and me and why I won't play your game in condemning MT is that the law and justice is best left to the place where it belongs, the Courts.
The French, whose company I now enjoy more than any other, left scurrilous and petty revenge behind at the French Revolution at the end of the 18th Century having learnt it achieves nothing.
I totally subscribe to that doctrine.
Condemning people and punishing them is the job of the Courts. The word exists in the English language of course but it is in two contexts. What is certain, under the terms of the Magna Carta, is that it is not a right in English law for people to 'condemn' per se without all the evidence and a hearing within the terms and spirit of the law and natural justice. Moreover, a cadaver cannot be tried.
What you seek to do offends everything that is good (what's left of it) in the system of British Justice. There is some evidence that people have been executed by thugs on the streets of Britain because of their belief that someone was a or in some other way 'different' without a shred of proof. I think the last case was particularly horrible. A completely innocent man with disabilities was set on fire in the street by murderous thugs who had no respect for the rule of law.
If that is the sort of society to which you subscribe, then I pity you and will remain ever grateful that we will never, knowingly, have the chance to meet.
you have quoted me saying I condemn anyone that has any connection to abuse.....(..something you seem unable to do...)...Is Gilberthorpe not anyone !! I won't turn a blind eye to anyone....I also would also openly condemn anyone that would try and take the law into their own hands. But what we do know is that there are abuse going on right now, and people who know are not coming forward. This is what I condemn....and I am simply appalled that it seems others can not bring themselves to say the same.
Empty, empty words and platitudes.
Actions speak louder than words.
My apologies for readdressing this point but, Teresa May, the Home Secretary had taken action to put an end to abuse but the likes of your hero Tom Watson dissed the very able and hugely experienced retired Family and Children High Court Judge Baroness Butler-Sloss - the most able of people to get to the bottom of it and she resigned before even starting the enquiry as a consequence. I personally don't blame her. She has given a lifetime of service to the good of family values and it must be an enormous disappointment to her to be treated so badly by those who purport to be the self styled saviours of everything decent in British society and who then seek to dishonour the very proper public service of her deceased brother as Attorney General.
What point would there be to her enquiry? On completion, instead of getting on with the job of dealing with the real issues, the enquiry findings would be hidebound by the likes of Watson continuing to question the validity of it.
If your house is on fire, you expect the FB to attend and deal with the immediate problem. If you suffer a heart attack, you expect the medics to attend and deal with medical emergency right now. What you don't want is these vital services to be spending their time looking through the archives to see if your house has been on fire before or your heart has stopped before rather then getting on with the immediate job in hand. There's a time and place for looking at historical events but if there is an immediate need, it should be addressed, immediately. That is what is demanded by the now victims but your attitude is seemingly to spend time chasing shadows out of some weird fetish to do MT down, no matter what. Fuck the current victims, they are irrelevant. It's the tenuous link to MT that demands your attention. And while Rome burns...
If, as you say, it is going on now still, the enquiry was vital to stop it, NOW. I trust you are proud of your self confessed hero Tom Watson for getting quickly towards stopping the hunt for the current perpetrators.
I guess you must be equally proud of yourself for your undying support for him.

15 Jul 2014

Once again....you can not answer the question and you do not condemn anyone involved in abuse ????
For your information....it was the whole establishment that was against Baroness Sloss....see the link by the Tories own newspaper The Mail !!

Even that called the appointment a shambles. MP's from all sides, campaigners, all could see that considering her brother was around at the time and maybe involved in a cover up, that she was not the one to conduct the enquiry. She herself has said, she didn't know about it, and the reason for her resignation was now it has come to light, it would be wrong of her to continue. As the paper quite clearly states only person to blame here is Teressa may for not looking into the background.
You also say whats the point of an enquiry ? To establish the truth is the answer to that !!! Maybe you were one of those saying whats the point with an enquiry into Jimmy Saville....maybe you think we should all still think of him as the nice man than ran marathos and raised money ??? Maybe you think the enquiry into Cyril Smith was wrong...and we should all think of him as the nice big cuddly MP ??
Anyone that is shown to have any connection to abuse, should be shown for the evil people they are.

15 Jul 2014

Quote by deancannock
Once again....you can not answer the question and you do not condemn anyone involved in abuse ????
For your information....it was the whole establishment that was against Baroness Sloss....see the link by the Tories own newspaper The Mail !!

Even that called the appointment a shambles. MP's from all sides, campaigners, all could see that considering her brother was around at the time and maybe involved in a cover up, that she was not the one to conduct the enquiry. She herself has said, she didn't know about it, and the reason for her resignation was now it has come to light, it would be wrong of her to continue. As the paper quite clearly states only person to blame here is Teressa may for not looking into the background.
You also say whats the point of an enquiry ? To establish the truth is the answer to that !!! Maybe you were one of those saying whats the point with an enquiry into Jimmy Saville....maybe you think we should all still think of him as the nice man than ran marathos and raised money ??? Maybe you think the enquiry into Cyril Smith was wrong...and we should all think of him as the nice big cuddly MP ??
Anyone that is shown to have any connection to abuse, should be shown for the evil people they are.

The thing is Dean, it is very evident that because of your hatred for Thatcher, you WANT the allegations to be true. You're not really bothered as to the actual truth.
Could you please also direct me to the published note which supposedly proves that Thatcher withheld information about the Hillsborough disaster in order to blame the Liverpool fans?

15 Jul 2014

max....100% I have a hatred of Mrs Thatcher...as mentioned before I come from a community she smashed ....I have a brother that would be alive today if it wasn't for her ....all well documented before on here. So yes....I have an axe to grind...not exactly ever tried to hide that.
However all the way along from the very first post I have clearly stated an allegation..and keep saying in block letters IF found to have known....At no time have I said she was or wasn't involved. What I have said is IF she was then she deserves to be condemned. Is that such a bad thing to say...!!! I remember being blasted on here when the Jimmy Saville case was breaking and I said all his awards should be removed if found guilty. Not to many would disagree now !!
As for Hillsborough....see link ...she knew and was advised it was the Police fault....but she choose to cover it up as the police had helped her so much in the miners strike !!! As we all know the police sought to blame drunken fans for the problems, and adjusted statements that said otherwise.

15 Jul 2014

Quote by deancannock
max....100% I have a hatred of Mrs Thatcher...as mentioned before I come from a community she smashed ....I have a brother that would be alive today if it wasn't for her ....all well documented before on here. So yes....I have an axe to grind...not exactly ever tried to hide that.
However all the way along from the very first post I have clearly stated an allegation..and keep saying in block letters IF found to have known....At no time have I said she was or wasn't involved. What I have said is IF she was then she deserves to be condemned. Is that such a bad thing to say...!!! I remember being blasted on here when the Jimmy Saville case was breaking and I said all his awards should be removed if found guilty. Not to many would disagree now !!
As for Hillsborough....see link ...she knew and was advised it was the Police fault....but she choose to cover it up as the police had helped her so much in the miners strike !!! As we all know the police sought to blame drunken fans for the problems, and adjusted statements that said otherwise.

Dean, you did not just say IF, you said you were sure it would be proven. If it's not proven, will you publicly apologise in the forum? With regards to your brother, it has also been documented in here that Mrs Thatcher was no longer Prime Minister when the pit at which he worked was closed.
You're really going to have to provide a better link than to a Daily a Mirror article having a bash at Thatcher. Having said that, I can't see where it says that Thatcher withheld information. What it does say is "- Margaret Thatcher - had been advised that the South Yorkshire Police were 'close to deceitful'... but that successive governments had failed the victims and their families" Successive Governments would include the two Labour governments that you voted for.

15 Jul 2014

max...with respect...Littleton Colliery was on the list of 52 pits drawn up by Mrs Thatcher and Mr McGregor, to be closed. All of those 52 pits were duly closed . Some during and some after her reign....(but as you know as you posted link)....it was the most productive in Europe !!
Please do look back at my posts....the word IF is typed in capitals....so as to emphasise it. I have used this continually. I have said only allegation at this time on 3 occasions in thread. Yes....if you were going to ask me now....do I think it will be proved she covered up sex abuse amongst her cabinet....I would say looking at evidence building up...and her past record of covering up and lieing for her own ends.....I would say more than a 50% chance that it will. However if found to be scanderlous lies...I will gladly say I was wrong . However all I have asked all along is for people to condemn abuse and anyone associated with it, including anyone that would know and hide or cover up the facts. Is that so hard a thing to do. it seems for some on here it is !!!

15 Jul 2014

Quote by deancannock
max...with respect...Littleton Colliery was on the list of 52 pits drawn up by Mrs Thatcher and Mr McGregor, to be closed. All of those 52 pits were duly closed . Some during and some after her reign....(but as you know as you posted link)....it was the most productive in Europe !!
Please do look back at my posts....the word IF is typed in capitals....so as to emphasise it. I have used this continually. I have said only allegation at this time on 3 occasions in thread. Yes....if you were going to ask me now....do I think it will be proved she covered up sex abuse amongst her cabinet....I would say looking at evidence building up...and her past record of covering up and lieing for her own ends.....I would say more than a 50% chance that it will. However if found to be scanderlous lies...I will gladly say I was wrong . However all I have asked all along is for people to condemn abuse and anyone associated with it, including anyone that would know and hide or cover up the facts. Is that so hard a thing to do. it seems for some on here it is !!!

Dean, with respect, is it not true that the pit was actually reprieved whilst Thatcher was PM but then closed under Major?
You did not use capital letters in your opening post, these are your actual words " If proven as I am sure it will be, will people finally see her for the lying, evil bitch she undoubtedly was" . I look forward to you admitting you were wrong if indeed it is not proven.

15 Jul 2014

Firstly...never reprieved under thatche because as most productive in Europe no one thought it would ever be closed......but yes was closed under major .....but the list was drawn up by Mrs Thatcher and Mr McGregor during the miners strike, which was basically the pits that came out fully on strike....all pits on that list were closed.
If it is shown she had no involvement...I will gladly apologise for casting aspersions. However Look back on the Jimmy Saville thread..I was blasted and told then I would have to come back and apologise....seems I didn't need to.....but the others who were saying leave him alone he is dead...there is no real proof.....where are they now......Did they come back and say they were wrong and condemn him....Deafened by silence I am....So in return, I ask if proven to be correct, that Mrs Thatcher did cover up abuse, how many I wonder will come on here and condemn her !!
I state again...no excuse and no hiding place for anyone associated with abuse.

15 Jul 2014

The Thatcher supporters will deny any wrongdoing by her out of ideology. It's a forlorn cause. But anyone curious merely needs to Google the Fernbridge guest house where children were abused and its guest list to realise there was something rotten in a number of the people surrounding her including her principal private secretary.
How many times was Savile invited to Checquers?

16 Jul 2014

and while Rome burns... Nero fiddles rolleyes

Shocking revelations today - again - about the appalling mistreatment of vulnerable elderly people in care homes including video evidence from a hidden camera in one old lady's room being physically and roughly manhandled by 'carers'.
Still, that doesn't count does it. Sod 'em. Must chase the dream of discrediting MT with historical abuse claims.
What is wrong with you people?

16 Jul 2014

Quote by GnV
and while Rome burns... Nero fiddles
Shocking revelations today - again - about the appalling mistreatment of vulnerable elderly people in care homes including video evidence from a hidden camera in one old lady's room being physically and roughly manhandled by 'carers'.
Still, that doesn't count does it. Sod 'em. Must chase the dream of discrediting MT with historical abuse claims.
What is wrong with you people?

So you want people to forget abuse eh.....its okay let them suffer ?
NO EXCUSES !!

16 Jul 2014

Quote by deancannock
and while Rome burns... Nero fiddles
Shocking revelations today - again - about the appalling mistreatment of vulnerable elderly people in care homes including video evidence from a hidden camera in one old lady's room being physically and roughly manhandled by 'carers'.
Still, that doesn't count does it. Sod 'em. Must chase the dream of discrediting MT with historical abuse claims.
What is wrong with you people?

So you want people to forget abuse eh.....its okay let them suffer ?
NO EXCUSES !!
It appears Tony Blair has also kept schtum, thats the guy you helped elect btw.

Wonder what excuses he'll have ready ? But at least he is around to defend his actions

16 Jul 2014

Quote by deancannock
and while Rome burns... Nero fiddles
Shocking revelations today - again - about the appalling mistreatment of vulnerable elderly people in care homes including video evidence from a hidden camera in one old lady's room being physically and roughly manhandled by 'carers'.
Still, that doesn't count does it. Sod 'em. Must chase the dream of discrediting MT with historical abuse claims.
What is wrong with you people?

So you want people to forget abuse eh.....its okay let them suffer ?
NO EXCUSES !!
No, your mate Tom Watson is the one who wants to do that.
All you seem to want to do is chase a dream. The Police will go where the evidence takes them. That's their job.

16 Jul 2014

Toots....as I have said....NO excuses for anyone. If anyone...and I don't care what political side of the fence they sit...are found to have been involved in abuse or any cover up....then they should be condemned and the full force of the law should come down on them.
It just seems others here and in this thread are not ready or able to say the same !!!

16 Jul 2014

I admired Jimmy Saville and his dedication to help those less well off than himself and help the children in the hospitals he visited, the marathons he ran for charity, I would have felt honoured to have him come to my home.
Of course I did not know then what I know now, I am sure there are many people who felt the same as me before it became public knowledge about his evil habits, I think anyone who did know and it can be proved they knew but protected him should be charged with aiding and abetting but a lot of people who did not know will be as appalled as the rest of us and regret inviting him to political and social events.

16 Jul 2014

Quote by MidsCouple24
I admired Jimmy Saville and his dedication to help those less well off than himself and help the children in the hospitals he visited, the marathons he ran for charity, I would have felt honoured to have him come to my home.
Of course I did not know then what I know now, I am sure there are many people who felt the same as me before it became public knowledge about his evil habits, I think anyone who did know and it can be proved they knew but protected him should be charged with aiding and abetting but a lot of people who did not know will be as appalled as the rest of us and regret inviting him to political and social events.

100% mids....we can all admire people....Jim'ill fix it and Rolf Harris on a Saturday was part of my upbringing...I used to love it. I used to love Gary Glitter songs....I used to think Cyril Smith was a fuuny guy !!!
However as the truth has emerged we all see them in a different light. No matter how much money Jimmy Saville raised, there will never be any excuse for his actions and abuse of children and handicapped kids. Cyril Smith may well of been a good MP....but nothing will ever excuse his actions and abuse of young boys. History will see these people for what they were.....evil child abusers. And I think anyone that knew about these things deserves to be dragged up and shamed the same. If they would of spoken out at the time, it may well of stopped the abuse of others. I think there will be many at the BBC that actually knew about the activities of Saville and Rolf Harris and others, but because they were famous decided to turn a blind eye to it all. They deserved to be shamed.
And yes....I think there are many in the corridors of power of Westminster that will know of activities that went on. They to deserve to be names and shamed...no matter how low or high ranking they are...and no matter what political colour they wear. there should be no hiding place for abusers or anyone that assisted by turning a blind eye.........and if that means us all having a total different view of someone....then that is the way it should be !!

17 Jul 2014

One of the big problems we have with child abuse in the UK is our "justice system" in simply is not just.
Lack of places in prisons mean that home office directives and people who think convicted prisoners have more rights than victims mean that convicted paedophiles are released after short sentences, if I had my way they would be given life imprisonment for the first offence, I would consider it my duty to pass such a sentence to protect the innocent.
There is a case where a man was sentenced to 15 years for almost beating his wife to death, his wife was sentenced to 3 years for the systematic sexual abuse of her children, the reason why the husband almost beat her to death.
The penalties for paedophiles and those that assist them by turning a blind eye, such as higher clergy, politicians, government officials, high ranking BBC officials and anyone else are simply a joke. In the news today it was reported that a large number of paedophiles have been caught within organisations that are supposed to be formed to protect children such as Schools, Scouting movements and Childrens Homes.
It is something that is prevalent throughout our justice system, I have been to prison for not paying my TV licence (I didn't live in the UK at the time and did not have a TV in the UK but was convicted in my absence abroad, arrested and imprisoned on my return) but the thief who broke into my house and attacked me was given a suspended sentence.

17 Jul 2014

Quote by deancannock
I admired Jimmy Saville and his dedication to help those less well off than himself and help the children in the hospitals he visited, the marathons he ran for charity, I would have felt honoured to have him come to my home.
Of course I did not know then what I know now, I am sure there are many people who felt the same as me before it became public knowledge about his evil habits, I think anyone who did know and it can be proved they knew but protected him should be charged with aiding and abetting but a lot of people who did not know will be as appalled as the rest of us and regret inviting him to political and social events.

100% mids....we can all admire people....Jim'ill fix it and Rolf Harris on a Saturday was part of my upbringing...I used to love it. I used to love Gary Glitter songs....I used to think Cyril Smith was a fuuny guy !!!
However as the truth has emerged we all see them in a different light. No matter how much money Jimmy Saville raised, there will never be any excuse for his actions and abuse of children and handicapped kids. Cyril Smith may well of been a good MP....but nothing will ever excuse his actions and abuse of young boys. History will see these people for what they were.....evil child abusers. And I think anyone that knew about these things deserves to be dragged up and shamed the same. If they would of spoken out at the time, it may well of stopped the abuse of others. I think there will be many at the BBC that actually knew about the activities of Saville and Rolf Harris and others, but because they were famous decided to turn a blind eye to it all. They deserved to be shamed.
And yes....I think there are many in the corridors of power of Westminster that will know of activities that went on. They to deserve to be names and shamed...no matter how low or high ranking they are...and no matter what political colour they wear. there should be no hiding place for abusers or anyone that assisted by turning a blind eye.........and if that means us all having a total different view of someone....then that is the way it should be !!
Dean, I'm sure that the whole forum will agree with you regarding the sexual abuse of children. Where the difference lies, is that you have admitted that because of your hatred for Thatcher, you want the allegations to be true, whereas more fair minded folk are inclined to wait and see if there is any truth in the allegations before condemning.

17 Jul 2014

Quote by Max777
Dean, I'm sure that the whole forum will agree with you regarding the sexual abuse of children. Where the difference lies, is that you have admitted that because of your hatred for Thatcher, you want the allegations to be true, whereas more fair minded folk are inclined to wait and see if there is any truth in the allegations before condemning.

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17 Jul 2014

Quote by Max777
I admired Jimmy Saville and his dedication to help those less well off than himself and help the children in the hospitals he visited, the marathons he ran for charity, I would have felt honoured to have him come to my home.
Of course I did not know then what I know now, I am sure there are many people who felt the same as me before it became public knowledge about his evil habits, I think anyone who did know and it can be proved they knew but protected him should be charged with aiding and abetting but a lot of people who did not know will be as appalled as the rest of us and regret inviting him to political and social events.

100% mids....we can all admire people....Jim'ill fix it and Rolf Harris on a Saturday was part of my upbringing...I used to love it. I used to love Gary Glitter songs....I used to think Cyril Smith was a fuuny guy !!!
However as the truth has emerged we all see them in a different light. No matter how much money Jimmy Saville raised, there will never be any excuse for his actions and abuse of children and handicapped kids. Cyril Smith may well of been a good MP....but nothing will ever excuse his actions and abuse of young boys. History will see these people for what they were.....evil child abusers. And I think anyone that knew about these things deserves to be dragged up and shamed the same. If they would of spoken out at the time, it may well of stopped the abuse of others. I think there will be many at the BBC that actually knew about the activities of Saville and Rolf Harris and others, but because they were famous decided to turn a blind eye to it all. They deserved to be shamed.
And yes....I think there are many in the corridors of power of Westminster that will know of activities that went on. They to deserve to be names and shamed...no matter how low or high ranking they are...and no matter what political colour they wear. there should be no hiding place for abusers or anyone that assisted by turning a blind eye.........and if that means us all having a total different view of someone....then that is the way it should be !!
Dean, I'm sure that the whole forum will agree with you regarding the sexual abuse of children. Where the difference lies, is that you have admitted that because of your hatred for Thatcher, you want the allegations to be true, whereas more fair minded folk are inclined to wait and see if there is any truth in the allegations before condemning.
NO....I have said...I think they will be shown to be true !! I have looked at the evidence that has been presented thus far...as in the Jimmy Saville case...(and yes I was knocked for that as well, but to me you could see it was quite clear)...I think the case will be shown to be correct. I have clearly stated above that I would condemn any person of any political colour. However it seems others are not willing to make that easy statement. Indeed are already trying to put excuses...GNV even saying it shouldn't even be investigated because she is dead and more important things around !!!