The euro zone

Quote by Paul80
Think I’ve worked this out now, we need to vote tory just so we get a vote then? It just goes to show how useless parliament has become over europe. Don’t know about you people but I for one believe we would survive not being a member, I sort of like the idea of sitting back watching them fuck them selves. why is it our governments get dissolved every 5 years yet europe just carries on, maybe its time for change, total re-think its not passed the test of time...
“be careful who you get into bed with”

Quote by GnV
Think I’ve worked this out now, we need to vote tory just so we get a vote then? It just goes to show how useless parliament has become over europe. Don’t know about you people but I for one believe we would survive not being a member, I sort of like the idea of sitting back watching them fuck them selves. why is it our governments get dissolved every 5 years yet europe just carries on, maybe its time for change, total re-think its not passed the test of time...
“be careful who you get into bed with”

Quote by Paul80
Think I’ve worked this out now, we need to vote tory just so we get a vote then? It just goes to show how useless parliament has become over europe. Don’t know about you people but I for one believe we would survive not being a member, I sort of like the idea of sitting back watching them fuck them selves. why is it our governments get dissolved every 5 years yet europe just carries on, maybe its time for change, total re-think its not passed the test of time...
“be careful who you get into bed with”

Quote by GnV
Think I’ve worked this out now, we need to vote tory just so we get a vote then? It just goes to show how useless parliament has become over europe. Don’t know about you people but I for one believe we would survive not being a member, I sort of like the idea of sitting back watching them fuck them selves. why is it our governments get dissolved every 5 years yet europe just carries on, maybe its time for change, total re-think its not passed the test of time...
“be careful who you get into bed with”

Quote by Paul80
:small-print: I'm fully aware how it works GnV, I posed a simple question.

Quote by Paul80
The UK people should not be held to ransom by the government on an issue that parliament show no sign of agreeing on.

Quote by starlightcouple

:small-print: I'm fully aware how it works GnV, I posed a simple question.

Quote by Paul80
The UK people should not be held to ransom by the government on an issue that parliament show no sign of agreeing on.

Quote by Paul80
Star, I don't think David Cameron has the mandate to give a referendum to the people as it stands, would he not need to get it past first through parliament? I would be interested to see a free vote in parliament on letting the people have a say. I hate to say this but I would like to see all this European crap taken out the hands of UK party politics, and let me tell you why! It's destroying our own parliament.

Quote by Paul80
Do people really think this country can't stand on our own.

Quote by starlightcouple
Personally I think Cameron is running scared. If he could not get a majority at the last election something will have to change for him to get that majority he needs to be able to give the electorate that in or out referendum. With Europe being in such a mess as you have indicated, UKIP will seize their opportunity to gain more Tory votes, which will leave Cameron possibly facing a drubbing at the next election, where Labour could get back into power.
By promising the electorate a referendum on Europe makes me very nervous, as was mentioned on Question Time why not give the electorate that vote before the next election? There is nothing stopping them from doing that, but he hopes he will be able to bribe the electorate with promises which I feel knowing Cameron's history that he will re-nag on as soon as his new 5 year term starts. Give us the referendum now DC if you have nothing to be scared of. The polls currently show an out would be the more than likely outcome, so no referendum now.
Perish the though of Mr Balls being PM.

Quote by starlightcouple
You know Paul80, there are millions of people out there today who can remember Germany and France smashed and broken after the second world war. Britain after 6 long years of war was on it's knees but was never broken. They would do well to remember that fact, in that there is not a GREAT in front of Britain for no reason.:thumbup:

Quote by Too Hot
You must read some hysterical twaddle Star..

Quote by Too Hot
1) What type of country do you think will exist under a UKIP Government? Everything that you hate (apart from foreigners) is supported by UKIP. Grammar schools, Hunting, slashing of welfare etc etc. They are extreme Conservatives.

Quote by Too Hot
2) How would you propose the electorate is given a referendum on Europe?
a) There would have to be a Parliamentary vote and it would not get passed because the Libs and labour would oppose it.
b) The whole argument is about whether the UK should be a part of a reformed Europe not a Europe as is. There is no mandate for a vote as/is and none could be obtained in this Parliament.

Quote by Too Hot
You really need to try to understand the political process instead of feeding voraciously on the clap trap that you must read on various internet forums. We live in a democracy and the only way that a referendum can be achieved is by making it an election pledge so that the policy is clear at the start of the Parliament. To say that there should be one now simply shows that you have no concept of the democratic process AND that you just want nothing at all to do with Johnny Foreigner and simply perish the thought that Europe can be reformed to be a better place.

Quote by Too Hot
You definitely have been reading some nonesense. You forget about Russia (20,000,000 dead) millions more unaccounted for, Poland - an entire generation wiped from the face of the earth.

Quote by Too Hot
Stop being a Little Englander and try to understand the world that you live in. That attitude is why we had an empire and it is why so many revile us - an assumption that we are simply better than everyone else. Sorry Star, you earn respect in the modern world and all we are known for at the moment is moaning, bickering and whining about how unfair the world is.

Quote by starlightcouple
[
You know Paul80, there are millions of people out there today who can remember Germany and France smashed and broken after the second world war. Britain after 6 long years of war was on it's knees but was never broken. They would do well to remember that fact, in that there is not a GREAT in front of Britain for no reason.:thumbup:

Quote by Lost
Learn from others Star and not be so bloody hard headed to change your views when the evidence proves you should rather than trying to defend the indefensible. If you can't then back away from it

Quote by GnV
@star
It's a complex issue star and there is no easy answer to the question of whether a mandate is required to hold a referendum.
Although Acts of Parliament may permit referendums to take place, the doctrine of parliamentary sovereignty means any Act of Parliament giving effect to a referendum result could be reversed by a subsequent Act of Parliament. As a result, referendums in the United Kingdom cannot be constitutionally binding, although they will usually have a persuasive political effect.
Decoded, that means that there would be little point in holding a referendum before the next election (but perfertly possible) because if Labour won the election (and they have sworn now not to have a referendum) they could effectively reverse its effect and stay in Europe giving them great political opportunity against their opponents when in Government. Moreover, if he gave parliamentary time to debate an Act of Parliament now, given the mix of opinion on the Government benches, there is no guarantee that he would win the vote - indeed, it is almost certain that he would lose it. Besides, the Government timetable for the next session is probably already fixed and squeezing this in would be unrealistic if not impossible.
That said, there is nothing in Parliamentary Legislation or the constitution which demands that the Parliamentary timetable is restricted to those matters which are mandated by election at at General Election.
As for parliamentary sovereignty itself, it gets even more interesting.
Firstly, no Parliament can bind a future parliament (that is, it cannot pass a law that cannot be changed or reversed by a future Parliament).
On the other hand, European law does not recognise the British concept of parliamentary supremacy.
The UK courts currently recognize the supremacy of EU law on those subjects where the EU can legislate. However, this supremacy conceptually derives from the European Communities Act 1972 and its successors, which could in theory be repealed by a future parliament. No sovereign state has ever left the EU, except Greenland, but since the passage of the Treaty of Lisbon in 2009 there is now a defined process for doing so.
So there you have it.
Any wiser?

Quote by starlightcouple
@star
It's a complex issue star and there is no easy answer to the question of whether a mandate is required to hold a referendum.
Although Acts of Parliament may permit referendums to take place, the doctrine of parliamentary sovereignty means any Act of Parliament giving effect to a referendum result could be reversed by a subsequent Act of Parliament. As a result, referendums in the United Kingdom cannot be constitutionally binding, although they will usually have a persuasive political effect.
Decoded, that means that there would be little point in holding a referendum before the next election (but perfertly possible) because if Labour won the election (and they have sworn now not to have a referendum) they could effectively reverse its effect and stay in Europe giving them great political opportunity against their opponents when in Government. Moreover, if he gave parliamentary time to debate an Act of Parliament now, given the mix of opinion on the Government benches, there is no guarantee that he would win the vote - indeed, it is almost certain that he would lose it. Besides, the Government timetable for the next session is probably already fixed and squeezing this in would be unrealistic if not impossible.
That said, there is nothing in Parliamentary Legislation or the constitution which demands that the Parliamentary timetable is restricted to those matters which are mandated by election at at General Election.
As for parliamentary sovereignty itself, it gets even more interesting.
Firstly, no Parliament can bind a future parliament (that is, it cannot pass a law that cannot be changed or reversed by a future Parliament).
On the other hand, European law does not recognise the British concept of parliamentary supremacy.
The UK courts currently recognize the supremacy of EU law on those subjects where the EU can legislate. However, this supremacy conceptually derives from the European Communities Act 1972 and its successors, which could in theory be repealed by a future parliament. No sovereign state has ever left the EU, except Greenland, but since the passage of the Treaty of Lisbon in 2009 there is now a defined process for doing so.
So there you have it.
Any wiser?

Quote by Trevaunance
And lets not forget it's not just a case of get re-elected then offer a referendum.
DC has been clear that he will only offer the referendum after a few steps. Step one: get re-elected. Step two: change the terms of our membership of the EU to a more favourable deal for Britain. Step three: offer a referendum.
Step two is the biggest get out clause ever. If everything that people don't like about the EU is changed to something far more palatable and beneficial then why would we leave?

Quote by flower
One minute you are all in favour of democracy and the next you are against it. Maybe if the Irish people had taken a little test to show that they understood what they were voting for in the place .....

Quote by HnS
Alex,
so long as it's ice cold