The government tell us that the "great divide" between North and South is nothing worth thinking about.
That is refreshing and reassuring news.
But is it.
On average the number of empty High Street shops in the North is double that of the South, unemployment is higher, standards of living lower even the cost of housing, here in Stoke on Trent a 4 bedroom home with front and rear gardens, 3 car garage, 3 basement utility rooms, and off road parking located in a nice area of the City is on the market at £120,000.
It appears to me that the divide has never been bigger, what do you think ? is your area suffering ? do you think it is because to much of the UKs resources are being given to the South ? do you think this is a good policy ?
What about the 2012 Olympics, will your area gain from it, the estimated final bill is £15 Billion, how much gain do you think the North will make compared with the South from such an expense ?
What are you witnessing from the widening gap
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The great divide
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Sex God
Not worth thinking about? Did they actually say that? The North / South divide is growing alarmingly. Four times as many jobs are being lost in the North as elsewhere in the country, and accelerating:
We should not be surprised. The country is effectively run for the benefit of those living in the South when a Tory govt is in power because that's their main constituency. The Labour voting North is less important to them. Thus it was, thus it ever shall be.
We should not be surprised. The country is effectively run for the benefit of those living in the South when a Tory govt is in power because that's their main constituency. The Labour voting North is less important to them. Thus it was, thus it ever shall be.
Quote by neilinleeds
Not worth thinking about? Did they actually say that? The North / South divide is growing alarmingly. Four times as many jobs are being lost in the North as elsewhere in the country, and accelerating:
We should not be surprised. The country is effectively run for the benefit of those living in the South when a Tory govt is in power because that's their main constituency. The Labour voting North is less important to them. Thus it was, thus it ever shall be.
Yes any party sadly will look after it's base voting areas, but this divide hasn't been going on during the lifetime of the current government, it has been happening for decadesand is getting worse, whilst this happens though surely a party needs to try and "win hearts and minds" of other constituencies to gain more support and cement thier current base, so I don't think this is the only reason that it is happening
Quote by neilinleeds
Not worth thinking about? Did they actually say that? The North / South divide is growing alarmingly. Four times as many jobs are being lost in the North as elsewhere in the country, and accelerating:
We should not be surprised. The country is effectively run for the benefit of those living in the South when a Tory govt is in power because that's their main constituency. The Labour voting North is less important to them. Thus it was, thus it ever shall be.
Swings and roundabouts then.
Quote by Rogue_trader
hmm I live in the South...I work in the North...coz I get paid more...
Just shows stats are crap...depends on how you wanna read them.
:thumbup:
pretty much what i thought.
i live in the south and i can assure you around here there are more shops closed than open. but then again when i visited my sister a month ago in cumbria, the shope were alive and buzzing.
stats? load of bollocks at the best of times to be honest.
well i suppose the report was in the guardian so much be true. :doh:
this is where this is leeding
" It demands that the north is given a "stronger say in its own destiny" and calls for a debate on the benefits of directly elected regional government "
say no more.
Quote by Rogue_trader
A suggestion, that has already been put forward in another thread, if you don't like the perceived divide then move. But I would suggest going in with your eyes open as the grass is not greener.
A very intelligent answer and worthy of a politician, everyone in the North move South, of course why didn't we think of that, let's just all head to Devon, it won't be a problem finding affordable housing and work will it, but hang on this from a man who says he can earn more working outside his area, some hope for us eh.
Quote by starlightcouple
hmm I live in the South...I work in the North...coz I get paid more...
Just shows stats are crap...depends on how you wanna read them.
:thumbup:
pretty much what i thought.
i live in the south and i can assure you around here there are more shops closed than open. but then again when i visited my sister a month ago in cumbria, the shope were alive and buzzing.
stats? load of bollocks at the best of times to be honest.
well i suppose the report was in the guardian so much be true. :doh:
this is where this is leeding
" It demands that the north is given a "stronger say in its own destiny" and calls for a debate on the benefits of directly elected regional government "
say no more.
You are in Plaistow Greater London, can I ask where in Cumbria (a predominantely rural area) your sister lives with all these booming shops ?
How does Plaistow compare with areas of Manchester, Leeds, Coventry, Birmingham, Stoke, Wolverhampton when it comes to employment levels and the amount of shops that are empty ?
Quote by MidsCouple24
You are in Plaistow Greater London, can I ask where in Cumbria (a predominantely rural area) your sister lives with all these booming shops ?
Keswick is very close, and we went to Carlisle to do lots of shopping :thumbup:
Quote by MidsCouple24
How does Plaistow compare with areas of Manchester, Leeds, Coventry, Birmingham, Stoke, Wolverhampton when it comes to employment levels and the amount of shops that are empty ?
i am sorry but i do not understand the question you are asking
Sex God
Quote by MidsCouple24
the amount of shops that are empty ?
the shops in london are also empty did you not see the london riots they nicked every thing
Sex God
Quote by Starlight
well i suppose the report was in the guardian so much be true.
Of course, I would have linked to the Daily Mail, but oddly they chose not to report on the research? I'd link you to the actual report but it's produced by a left leaning think-tank, which obviously makes their analysis bunk, based as it is on Office of National Statistics ((( i.e. a Govt dept. ))) data. Have a quick all the same.
Quote by Starlight
i live in the south and i can assure you around here there are more shops closed than open. but then again when i visited my sister a month ago in cumbria, the shope were alive and buzzing.
. . . . .
Keswick is very close, and we went to Carlisle to do lots of shopping
And you think that tells us what? That Cumbria is a tourist area where much of the spend is from visitors looking to be catered to? How might that have a peculiarly local dynamic I wonder, that could not in any sense be extrapolated from in any meaningful way vis a vis the rest of the North? I mean, go to Blackpool in august you'll find kiss-me-quick hat vendors are doing a roaring trade, but it's not likely we could draw conclusions from that that would apply equally to Leeds, is it? And of course, the fact you have lots of shops closed locally to you is not to say that things aren't worse in the North either? Things are quite often relative you see.
Quote by MidsCouple
How does Plaistow compare with areas of Manchester, Leeds, Coventry, Birmingham, Stoke, Wolverhampton when it comes to employment levels and the amount of shops that are empty ?i am sorry but i do not understand the question you are asking
No, evidently. See above.
Quote by Rogue_trader
hmm I live in the South...I work in the North...coz I get paid more...
Just shows stats are crap...depends on how you wanna read them.
No. It simply proves that there are always exceptions that prove the rule. The research is obviously framed in general terms, your experience is quite a particular example. That doesn't disprove the stats.
Sex God
In political terms, the South, and particularly the South-East (outside inner London), is largely centre-right, and supportive of the Conservative Party, while the North (particularly the towns and cities) is generally more supportive of the Labour Party
Maybe this has a bearing on things
Maybe this has a bearing on things
Sex God
Quote by Rogue_trader
hmm I live in the South...I work in the North...coz I get paid more...
Just shows stats are crap...depends on how you wanna read them.
Your one single data point proves that statistics drawn from thousands of data points to be crap? That, frankly, is stupid.
Yes, stats are never the complete picture - that is pretty well the definition of the subject. But multiple data are ALWAYS better than a single datum if you want to draw any kind of workable world-models from them.
Sex God
Quote by starlightcouple
ah sorry neil.
goes to scuttle off to see where neil lives. bet i wont be suprised though....
still looking. ah right.
You mean you actually had to look? Jesus. The clue's in the bloody name Star, the clue's in the bloody name.
;)You do of course know that I'm gonna call you out now on an ad hominem because you've no better argument, don't you?
does not prove them either.
No, of course it doesn't. That's not how stats work, is it? Trying to prove a point either way from a single example among a mass of objectively verifiable data is truly pointless.
Personally I don't give a hoot for the stats, that is why I asked the forum population for thier views, the facts however do speak for themselves, and around the Country the South is getting wealthier the North is getting poorer, less of the Countries assets are being spent in the North, Southern projects get a higher priority, employment is higher in the South, more businesses on the High Street are closed in the North.
But how is this going to effect the country in the long term, can we exist with such a divide, will it bounce back to hurt the people of the South if the North gets too poor ?
I am not blaming the people of the South, not witchunting or pointing fingers, it doesn't really matter who is to blame but it does matter what the long term effects are going to be and who is going to combat them.
But how is this going to effect the country in the long term, can we exist with such a divide, will it bounce back to hurt the people of the South if the North gets too poor ?
I am not blaming the people of the South, not witchunting or pointing fingers, it doesn't really matter who is to blame but it does matter what the long term effects are going to be and who is going to combat them.
Sex God
Maybe a look from another angle;
Inner London is by far the most unequal of all regions in England.
Outside London, no region has significantly more than 10% of its population in the bottom tenth of national income distribution.
Income is more concentrated in Inner London than Outer London, and more concentrated in London than elsewhere. 20% of the population have about 60% of total income in Inner London, 50% in Outer London and 40% in the rest of England.
Inner London is by far the most unequal of all regions in England.
Outside London, no region has significantly more than 10% of its population in the bottom tenth of national income distribution.
Income is more concentrated in Inner London than Outer London, and more concentrated in London than elsewhere. 20% of the population have about 60% of total income in Inner London, 50% in Outer London and 40% in the rest of England.
Sex God
Blue, inner London has a dynamic all of its own. Nowhere else in the country do you have such a concentrated mass of people so diverse in socio-economic status so tightly pressed cheek by jowl over so large an area. London has truly vast, almost beyond imagining extremes of wealth and poverty living good as side by side. You've got The City proper and Westminster a 5 minute tube ride from some of the most deprived areas of the country. It's kinda unique IMO. Soon as you get out of the inner cities and satellite boroughs it's a different story altogether in the South and South East.
Sex God
Quote by neilinleeds
Blue, inner London has a dynamic all of its own. Nowhere else in the country do you have such a concentrated mass of people so diverse in socio-economic status so tightly pressed cheek by jowl over so large an area. London has truly vast, almost beyond imagining extremes of wealth and poverty living good as side by side. You've got The City proper and Westminster a 5 minute tube ride from some of the most deprived areas of the country. It's kinda unique IMO.
I would imagine every town/city is unique in one way or another.
Yes you are quite right, London is unique Neil, Inner London is by far the most unequal of all regions in England. :thumbup:
Sex God
its so funny this thread i think it needs sticky status
north south divide really!!!! funny how most of the work we carry out is coming from the so so called poor north, with most customers spending over 2 grand a time on products things really arn't that bad op north , maybe we should move all the call centres back from deli to Bradford
funny this always crops up when we have a change in government
all i can say is get real and let go of the past its gone and your not bringing it back
and if its that bad im sure some refugee camps have some spare places just south of watford
north south divide really!!!! funny how most of the work we carry out is coming from the so so called poor north, with most customers spending over 2 grand a time on products things really arn't that bad op north , maybe we should move all the call centres back from deli to Bradford
funny this always crops up when we have a change in government
all i can say is get real and let go of the past its gone and your not bringing it back
and if its that bad im sure some refugee camps have some spare places just south of watford
Sex God
Alright Rob, I'll play.
What sort of products do you sell, and to what sort of customers? We need more information you see if we're gonna work out if the general stats are shite just cos you seem to be doing well out of people in the North who also happen to be doing well?
I doubt that makes the stats shite at all, but knock yaself out. If you think you know better, we're all waiting?
I refer you to Foxy's eloquent post. By way of what most people in the science trade would no doubt call 'anecdotal evidence' the Leeds based company I work for is doing well too, but then it's in the security industry, and first thing businesses and people think of in a recession is their security cos they've all seen metal thefts on the news so hardly surprising.
What's your angle, and how does that disprove the general stats? I'll give you a clue. It doesn't.
What sort of products do you sell, and to what sort of customers? We need more information you see if we're gonna work out if the general stats are shite just cos you seem to be doing well out of people in the North who also happen to be doing well?
I doubt that makes the stats shite at all, but knock yaself out. If you think you know better, we're all waiting?I refer you to Foxy's eloquent post. By way of what most people in the science trade would no doubt call 'anecdotal evidence' the Leeds based company I work for is doing well too, but then it's in the security industry, and first thing businesses and people think of in a recession is their security cos they've all seen metal thefts on the news so hardly surprising.
What's your angle, and how does that disprove the general stats? I'll give you a clue. It doesn't.
Sex God
this great north south divide is based on a very big city that produces 20%+ of the uk's gdp and employs a large percentage of its workforce from surrounding counties
and that is the whole basis of your and the supporters of the north is poor argument ..............bit daft don't you think because lets face it its not and never has been a north south divide its a London and surrounding counties North divide
should we set up some refugee camps dya recon :huh:
and that is the whole basis of your and the supporters of the north is poor argument ..............bit daft don't you think
because lets face it its not and never has been a north south divide its a London and surrounding counties North divide should we set up some refugee camps dya recon :huh:
Quote by Lizaleanrob
this great north south divide is based on a very big city that produces 20%+ of the uk's gdp and employs a large percentage of its workforce from surrounding counties
and that is the whole basis of your and the supporters of the north is poor argument ..............bit daft don't you think
should we set up some refugee camps dya recon :huh:
Knock yourself out with them
Dave_Notts
" We will decentralise power from Whitehall and build the Big Society ".
sounds like a manifesto promise from the anti government think tank department
do these peeple only hate the tories or all political parties?
" highest proportion of Lower Layer Super Output Areas " :sleeping: WTF :twisted:
only hackney and tower hamlets from london boroughs in the top 5? what reely? are they the only ones they visited?
i can think of one or two worse than those two they have mentioned. still cant argue with stats now, can you
sounds like a manifesto promise from the anti government think tank department
do these peeple only hate the tories or all political parties?
" highest proportion of Lower Layer Super Output Areas " :sleeping: WTF :twisted:
only hackney and tower hamlets from london boroughs in the top 5? what reely? are they the only ones they visited?
i can think of one or two worse than those two they have mentioned. still cant argue with stats now, can you
Quote by starlightcouple
" We will decentralise power from Whitehall and build the Big Society ".
sounds like a manifesto promise from the anti government think tank department
do these peeple only hate the tories or all political parties?
" highest proportion of Lower Layer Super Output Areas " :sleeping: WTF :twisted:
only hackney and tower hamlets from london boroughs in the top 5? what reely? are they the only ones they visited?
i can think of one or two worse than those two they have mentioned. still cant argue with stats now, can you
Since decentralisation is always to the fore of Tory policy why would the statement be anti-tory :dunno:
Dave_Notts
Sex God
Quote by Lizaleanrob
this great north south divide is based on a very big city that produces 20%+ of the uk's gdp and employs a large percentage of its workforce from surrounding counties
and that is the whole basis of your and the supporters of the north is poor argument ..............bit daft don't you think
should we set up some refugee camps dya recon :huh:
Please present stats to back up your argument. I'm only asking cos I would like to think the ONS employ people who know what stats are, and how they work, so as to help Govt make informed decisions. If you're telling me they're all idiots and you know better I think I need to be having a word with 'em. Perhaps we could pay you millions of pounds a year to collect all the data for us instead, on the understanding it better be accurate cos otherwise it's gonna get ripped to bits, assuming you put it up into the public domain in the first place?
So Rob . . . . these stats you've got for us?
