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Things are looking up

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With car manufacturing and exports on the up, could this be a good sign for the future. Things must surely be looking up lol
Landrover this week, Tata Motors-owned Jaguar Land Rover (JLR) is adding 1,000 jobs at its Freelander and Evoque factory at Halewood, near Liverpool in England.
The new posts will take the headcount at Halewood to almost 4,500 – treble the number employed there three years ago


and Nissan last week, Nissan to create 2,000 new jobs by building compact car in Sunderland
Vince Cable says decision – which will boost area hit by cuts and recession – 'a vote of confidence in UK manufacturing

sorry to be the bearer of bad news....but take a look here...2000 job losses !!

opps another 750 lost here

opps another 1700 lost here

not exactly looking so bright now is it !!!!

Seems unemployment figures out today show new 17 year high !!!
so seems all the cost cutting and increase in tax...is not going to pay any debt off, but to pay the massive increase in unemployment benifiets !!!...oh not to mention the shortfall in PAYE tax that those people paid when working !!!
Quote by deancannock

Seems unemployment figures out today show new 17 year high !!!
so seems all the cost cutting and increase in tax...is not going to pay any debt off, but to pay the massive increase in unemployment benifiets !!!...oh not to mention the shortfall in PAYE tax that those people paid when working !!!

Your argument might be true if it were mainly private sector employees being made redundant but it's mainly public sector workers taking the bunt. Unless the level of benefits they receive are greater than the salaries they were paid, there is a net saving to the treasury.
Quote by deancannock

Seems unemployment figures out today show new 17 year high !!!
so seems all the cost cutting and increase in tax...is not going to pay any debt off, but to pay the massive increase in unemployment benifiets !!!...oh not to mention the shortfall in PAYE tax that those people paid when working !!!

Your argument might be true if it were mainly private sector employees being made redundant but it's mainly public sector workers bearing the brunt. Unless the level of benefits they receive are greater than the salaries they were paid, there is a net saving to the treasury.
To a certain extend I'd agree that things for some people are getting better.
There are an awful lot of new cars round our way and there seems to be a lot more activity on construction sites than there was say 1 year ago.
However, I think things will be grim for a large amount of people for the next couple of years before the Gov. starts making things sweet in an effort to get re-elected.
I think everything (unless outside events dictate) will run to a timetable to suit re-election of a Conservative Gov. For instance, nearly all troops will be back from 'Stan. Any conflict with Syria or Iran will be well over before 2015, this will be timed to suit American Presidential elections of course. And the economy will be forced into an up-cycle in the hope that people will forget the pain of the first 3 or 4 years.
John
Quote by deancannock

Seems unemployment figures out today show new 17 year high !!!
so seems all the cost cutting and increase in tax...is not going to pay any debt off, but to pay the massive increase in unemployment benifiets !!!...oh not to mention the shortfall in PAYE tax that those people paid when working !!!

Unemployment in Feb 08 was million. By the time of the General Election in May 2010 it had increased to million and now stands at million. This shows that the upward trend was well underway under the previous government and also that the number of jobs lost since the advent of the financial crisis was far greater under the previous government than the coalition.
As per the figures in the below link.
Caravan sales at an all time high;
It is believed that last year sales of caravans and camping equipment reached an all time high. The contribution of two billion pounds to the UK economy can be seen as part of the increased popularity of caravan and camping holidays. Now the nation’s favourite holiday pastime; research has also highlighted a perceived link between camping and caravan holidays with the benefits of healthy living.
It is believed that each day camping and caravan holidaymakers spend almost thirty pounds. Included in this figure is petrol, food and drink sales and when considered that there are around seventeen million caravan and camping holidays being made each year this figure is considerable.
Although this does not include pitch sales and fees; it is estimated that if it did the figure would be closer to fifty pounds a day. Considering that pitch fees are used to develop sites and employ local residents the contribution to local economies is also vast.
A survey has further detailed caravan and camping holiday spending. It is believed that fifty seven percent of holidaymakers spent their money in pubs while almost the same number spent money in local eateries. UK tourist attractions have also benefited in terms of ticket sales with almost seventy percent visiting a variety of attractions regularly. An outstanding eighty five percent of camping and caravan tourists walked to their destination highlighting the benefits to the environment this type of holiday has.
Of the seventeen million caravan and camping holidays taking place annually the average stay is estimated to be four days. Over these four days the amount poured into local economies through food and drink sales as well as entry to local attractions is believed to be one of the major factors bolstering rural incomes. Without this steady stream of holidaymakers it can be surmised that the large contribution in many rural economies is a vital element in their survival.
Campers rather than those staying in a caravan are believed to be even more likely to add to local economies. Because of a lack of facilities and storage when tent camping, shops and restaurants around campsites make more sales of subsistence products than those near caravan parks. With the popularity of this type of holiday growing rapidly rural economies will benefit further.
In terms of the supposed link between camping and caravan holidays and a healthier lifestyle the supposition seems to hold water. A survey used data from the general public as well as regular camping and caravan holidaymakers; it found that ninety seven percent of those who camped or caravanned regularly felt that being outdoors had a positive impact on their lives. The research also found that campers and caravanners were more likely to undertake activities such as walking, swimming and cycling than members of the general public.
Comment on the research has stated that it demonstrates what camping and caravan holidaymakers had believed for years. The contribution to the local economy through food and drink sales and local services keeps rural economies alive and provides jobs for those in the localities. The research also showed that campers and caravaners are driven by a desire to explore new places, visit attractions and sample local food.
Camping and caravan holidays are fundamentally about spending time in the marvellous British countryside, so the link between these types of holidays and a healthier lifestyle is unsurprising. This type of holiday not only provides freedom and choice but is also part of a healthy lifestyle. As a result there is little wonder that sales of tents and caravans are skyrocketing as more people try to join the hoards seeking this lifestyle choice.

New building every where we look;
Poundbury is a thriving new urban development on the outskirts of Dorchester, West Dorset. It was designed by the Prince of Wales who outlined his pioneering ideas in his 1989 book, ‘A Vision of Britain’.
Caravanning and camping have risen in popularity becuase a lot of people cannot afford to go abroad anymore.
J & S
So lets get this right...as unemployment has risen to a 17 year high....you think things are looking Up ????? As per Max link...it seems that the majority of jobs being created are part time ones !!! the amount of people now in part time work, is a the highest level ever recorded since records began !!!!
Now don't get me wrong I welcome the increase in workers being taken on at Nissan and Jaguar....I welcome the new jobs being created by Mcdonalds....but this does not outweigh the jobs being lost. We need to do more, a damn sight more to stimulate the economy. I honestly think the economy bottomed out about 2 years ago, and continues to bump along the bottom. I see no improvement, and as it stands, can not see where that improvemnet is going to come from.
Quote by Geordiecpl2001
Caravanning and camping have risen in popularity becuase a lot of people cannot afford to go abroad anymore.
J & S

i must admit we don't like crowded holiday destinations that are full of English tourists we haven't been anywhere like the med for 15 years and tend to book places direct that are not in uk holiday brochures
places like this are cheaper, more private and not full of people that really aren't our cup of tea

with the price of holidays at the moment caravan holidays offer a good alternative that also boost's local economy's
The solution, or part of it is simple.
Remove VAT on items made in Britain, ie Toyota cars.
Yes there will be a large loss of tax revenue with the removal of the 20% but manufacturing in all British companies will be increased, companies around the world will see Britain as a good place to build thier new european based factories, unemployment will drop drastically re-couping much of the lost tax revenue or at least not having to spend so much of it on benefits, those currently unemployed will not only have a greater sense of personal achievement but will also have more money in thier pockets to spend and therefore pay more in VAT on some of what they do buy, and will be paying income tax instead of recieving other peoples.
Our British made products will be 20% cheaper than similar imported items making them much more desireable and anyone who wants to build the average car at will know they can sell it for £2000 cheaper than thier rivals who have them build in other parts of europe, but not just cars, everything we buy. Bring back "made in Britain" bring back National Pride, bring back respect to the unemployed.
Stop paying benefits to migrant workers, if they are migrant EU workers they shouldnt need benefits, if they are not working they should be classed as immigrants and subject to immigration law despite anything the EU say.
Immigrants and those applying for it should not be paid benefits, wanting money is no reason for wanting to emigrate here, asylum seeking is not immigration and immigration is not asylum seeking.
An immigrant is someone who wants to live in this country, an asylum seeker is someone who arrives here in fear of thier life, torture or wrongfull imprisonment in the country from whence they came, a Bosnian or Nigerian arriving here from France is not an asylum seeker, they have already escaped the tryanny by getting to France and France will not imprison them or execute or torture them.
We set up the welfare state for the welfare of the British population and it's commonwealth peoples, we did not set it up for Africans, Eastern Europeans those from the Far East and Middle East to escape poverty in thier own Countries, we have enough poverty in our country.
Immigration is a good thing, many tradepeople are needed, immigration should be based on "what have you to offer this Country" .
If someone marries an non-British citizen they should not be given a British passport but should be given a visa to remain in this country for as long as they remain actively married.
Marrying a British subject should not mean that you are entitled to bring the rest of your family to the UK.
The National Health should not be available to Tourists except through payment just as we have to pay for much of our medical treatment when holidaying abroad, via holiday insurance. There are exceptions via the E111 card for EU subjects but many non-EU subjects travel here on holiday just to use our free medical facilities.
When my ex took ill in Switzerland it cost over £21,000 for her treatment, paid of course by our insurance but if a Swiss National takes ill whilst on holiday here the treatment is free. Switzerland does accept the E111 card but it is not a member of the EU.
very good comments in Principe mids but nothing will stop what has happened because of this.

to many peeple looking for to few jobs mids. to many dodgy employers seeking to employ at the cheepest rates. that is why some come here as plenty of work for cheep wages. wages that british peeple it seems cannot afford to take.
things are not looking up at all in many areas. some areas are in a downward spiral of despair and poverty. the latest unemployemt figures back this up. a 17 yeer high and still immigration is not being cut back. many british peeple i have read feel let down and on the scrap heep of society.
toyota may make there cars here, but they are not a british company. giving them tax incentives like no VAT will never happen nor will it ever work. nice in principle though.:notes:
Quote by MidsCouple24
The solution, or part of it is simple.
Remove VAT on items made in Britain, ie Toyota cars.
Yes there will be a large loss of tax revenue with the removal of the 20% but manufacturing in all British companies will be increased, companies around the world will see Britain as a good place to build thier new european based factories, unemployment will drop drastically re-couping much of the lost tax revenue or at least not having to spend so much of it on benefits, those currently unemployed will not only have a greater sense of personal achievement but will also have more money in thier pockets to spend and therefore pay more in VAT on some of what they do buy, and will be paying income tax instead of recieving other peoples.
Our British made products will be 20% cheaper than similar imported items making them much more desireable and anyone who wants to build the average car at will know they can sell it for £2000 cheaper than thier rivals who have them build in other parts of europe, but not just cars, everything we buy. Bring back "made in Britain" bring back National Pride, bring back respect to the unemployed.
Stop paying benefits to migrant workers, if they are migrant EU workers they shouldnt need benefits, if they are not working they should be classed as immigrants and subject to immigration law despite anything the EU say.
Immigrants and those applying for it should not be paid benefits, wanting money is no reason for wanting to emigrate here, asylum seeking is not immigration and immigration is not asylum seeking.
An immigrant is someone who wants to live in this country, an asylum seeker is someone who arrives here in fear of thier life, torture or wrongfull imprisonment in the country from whence they came, a Bosnian or Nigerian arriving here from France is not an asylum seeker, they have already escaped the tryanny by getting to France and France will not imprison them or execute or torture them.
We set up the welfare state for the welfare of the British population and it's commonwealth peoples, we did not set it up for Africans, Eastern Europeans those from the Far East and Middle East to escape poverty in thier own Countries, we have enough poverty in our country.
Immigration is a good thing, many tradepeople are needed, immigration should be based on "what have you to offer this Country" .
If someone marries an non-British citizen they should not be given a British passport but should be given a visa to remain in this country for as long as they remain actively married.
Marrying a British subject should not mean that you are entitled to bring the rest of your family to the UK.
The National Health should not be available to Tourists except through payment just as we have to pay for much of our medical treatment when holidaying abroad, via holiday insurance. There are exceptions via the E111 card for EU subjects but many non-EU subjects travel here on holiday just to use our free medical facilities.
When my ex took ill in Switzerland it cost over £21,000 for her treatment, paid of course by our insurance but if a Swiss National takes ill whilst on holiday here the treatment is free. Switzerland does accept the E111 card but it is not a member of the EU.

Seconded.
John & Shel
I don't care who OWNS the Companies, if they choose to base the bulk of thier manufacturing here employing the British workforce (no matter what nationality they are) then it is of mutual benefit to exempt the buyer the VAT on the item, be it a nappy or a car. The companies also have to pay an element of tax to the UK government, tax which may have been paid to the French or Germans had we not shown them why building the factories would allow them to compete in British and other european markets cheaper than in Countries where the VAT would still be paid.
When I lived in Germany many years ago you did not pay Mervestioer (spelt wrong but VAT equiavlent) on anything made there ie BMW, VW, Mercedes cars, almost all taxis were Mercedes becuase incentives were given to businesses who bought German made products.
Most french taxis are french cars so perhaps they have similar incentives.
We know it is hard times ahead and for some time in the past in this Country, the Government could help us to help ourselves instead of just saying we have to tighten our belts.
I have nothing against migrant workers, we need many of them, I spent 3 years recently as a migrant worker in Switzerland, the Swiss love migrant workers, but that is because we earned our keep, we were not entitled to any benefits or accommodation, you work you earn you pay your bills or you leave the Country. That is how we should be with them.
Even our own Commonwealth Countries like Australia will not let us just go there to live without having accommodation and work. Mainland British subjects cannot even go to work in Jersey without having a job and accommodation before you get there is there any need for us to have a virtual open door policy, like I said we set up the welfare state for the benefit of British people (whatever thier ethnic hereditary) born here, benefit here, born elsewhere live by migrant rules unless you are granted political asylum and you don't get that if your safe in the Country you have evacuated to ie France.
Quote by Geordiecpl2001
Caravanning and camping have risen in popularity becuase a lot of people cannot afford to go abroad anymore.
J & S

I do not think that is necessarily true, Caravaning and camping has had several big boost's over the last few years. One was the Twin Towers being attacked, also other terrorist activities and others issues like the ash cloud.
Many of the people who are buying new caravans now are of an older generation who have savings. Many have said, as there saving's are not earning very much interest so they may as well spend the money on a new caravan and enjoy them selves.
New caravan's are not cheap and the annual upkeep is not cheap either. Many camp sites are not cheap to stay on either.
Quote by deancannock
So lets get this right...as unemployment has risen to a 17 year high....you think things are looking Up ????? As per Max link...it seems that the majority of jobs being created are part time ones !!! the amount of people now in part time work, is a the highest level ever recorded since records began !!!!
Now don't get me wrong I welcome the increase in workers being taken on at Nissan and Jaguar....I welcome the new jobs being created by Mcdonalds....but this does not outweigh the jobs being lost. We need to do more, a damn sight more to stimulate the economy. I honestly think the economy bottomed out about 2 years ago, and continues to bump along the bottom. I see no improvement, and as it stands, can not see where that improvemnet is going to come from.

This just could be the beginning of the up dunno
I think it is important to focus on the good things, too much talking the economy down and that is just what it will do :sad:
Quote by MidsCouple24
Even our own Commonwealth Countries like Australia will not let us just go there to live without having accommodation and work. Mainland British subjects cannot even go to work in Jersey without having a job and accommodation before you get there is there any need for us to have a virtual open door policy, like I said we set up the welfare state for the benefit of British people (whatever thier ethnic hereditary) born here, benefit here, born elsewhere live by migrant rules unless you are granted political asylum and you don't get that if your safe in the Country you have evacuated to ie France.

Tiny flaw in your argument Mids.
France is not a dumping ground for all-comers leaving vicious regimes. It is often the last point of call before crawling through the tunnel or hanging on the axle of a lorry.
The EU states that they must be removed to the port at which they first entered the EU. This can often be Spain (from North Africa) or from the east across the continent of Europe. It is not the fault of France that the last (Labour) administration made it so economically viable for people to wish to enter Britain (generally, illegally) and so 'the jungle' as it came to be known at Calais was dismantled by the French authorities some time after the Red Cross centre at Sangatte was closed in 2002 and the problem persisted.
M. Sarkozy has now announced that, unless the EU do something about the problem, he intends to suspend the provisions of the Schengen Accord to which France was a willing partner in 1985. Although there is no reciprocal agreement with Britain (PM John Major refused to sign) this will have a knock on effect to British tourists wishing to holiday in France in the future. It's already having effect on ferry bookings from/to France where additional information - in as much detail as the airlines demand before travelling - and detailed checks at ports are going to cause considerable delays. I heard it reported only the other day that Duane at French airports are doing detailed checks on non-French citizens with the inevitable delays at the arrival gate this causes.
So, please do not blame France. It is not her fault. Blame those awful nasty politicians in the last administration from as far back as Tony Bliar himself who fiddled the figures and made Britain so attractive as to encourage people to traverse continents to arrive at the Land of Milk and Honey.
Quote by MidsCouple24
The solution, or part of it is simple.
Remove VAT on items made in Britain, ie Toyota cars.
I don't believe it would be as simple as you think. I'm not even sure that removing VAT on items made in Britain would be legal, no doubt it would contravene some EU law. Even if it was legal, it would be virtually impossible to administrate.
Yes there will be a large loss of tax revenue with the removal of the 20% but manufacturing in all British companies will be increased, companies around the world will see Britain as a good place to build thier new european based factories, unemployment will drop drastically re-couping much of the lost tax revenue or at least not having to spend so much of it on benefits, those currently unemployed will not only have a greater sense of personal achievement but will also have more money in thier pockets to spend and therefore pay more in VAT on some of what they do buy, and will be paying income tax instead of recieving other peoples.
Is this is purely speculation on your behalf? Do you know what the VAT receipts are on UK Manufactured goods? Can you guarantee that the benefits of any increased production, employment etc would be sufficient to offset the lost VAT?
our British made products will be 20% cheaper than similar imported items making them much more desireable and anyone who wants to build the average car at will know they can sell it for £2000 cheaper than thier rivals who have them build in other parts of europe, but not just cars, everything we buy. Bring back "made in Britain" bring back National Pride, bring back respect to the unemployed.
Would saving £2K make me buy a Toyota rather than the car I drive. No, it wouldn't. As for our other British made products being 20% cheaper than similar imported items, what products would these be? If we have a plethora of such products that we can manufacture for the same price as the cost of those imported, why do we import in the first place? Simple reason being that these products don't exist.
Quote by GnV
Even our own Commonwealth Countries like Australia will not let us just go there to live without having accommodation and work. Mainland British subjects cannot even go to work in Jersey without having a job and accommodation before you get there is there any need for us to have a virtual open door policy, like I said we set up the welfare state for the benefit of British people (whatever thier ethnic hereditary) born here, benefit here, born elsewhere live by migrant rules unless you are granted political asylum and you don't get that if your safe in the Country you have evacuated to ie France.

Tiny flaw in your argument Mids.
France is not a dumping ground for all-comers leaving vicious regimes. It is often the last point of call before crawling through the tunnel or hanging on the axle of a lorry.
The EU states that they must be removed to the port at which they first entered the EU. This can often be Spain (from North Africa) or from the east across the continent of Europe. It is not the fault of France that the last (Labour) administration made it so economically viable for people to wish to enter Britain (generally, illegally) and so 'the jungle' as it came to be known at Calais was dismantled by the French authorities some time after the Red Cross centre at Sangatte was closed in 2002 and the problem persisted.
M. Sarkozy has now announced that, unless the EU do something about the problem, he intends to suspend the provisions of the Schengen Accord to which France was a willing partner in 1985. Although there is no reciprocal agreement with Britain (PM John Major refused to sign) this will have a knock on effect to British tourists wishing to holiday in France in the future. It's already having effect on ferry bookings from/to France where additional information - in as much detail as the airlines demand before travelling - and detailed checks at ports are going to cause considerable delays. I heard it reported only the other day that Duane at French airports are doing detailed checks on non-French citizens with the inevitable delays at the arrival gate this causes.
So, please do not blame France. It is not her fault. Blame those awful nasty politicians in the last administration from as far back as Tony Bliar himself who fiddled the figures and made Britain so attractive as to encourage people to traverse continents to arrive at the Land of Milk and Honey.
At no point did I blame France, what I said was that if the person is in France they are no longer in danger of being killed, tortured or wrongfully imprisoned by thier fellow countrymen, ie the basic reasons why someone might be given political asylum, therefore if they want to leave France and come to Britain they should be considered under the standard rules of immigration equal to any other would be immigrant wishing to come here and not as the higher status Asylum Seeker.
France is in an unfortunate position being our neighbours and a stepping stone ground for people wanting to come here but that is as I say unfortunate and not our fault, if an Asylum seeker can arrive here by boat, plane or any other method DIRECTLY from the thier country of origin then yes they are asylum seekers and we have a moral duty to try and help them.
If I am delayed at a port or airport for safety or customs checks then I have to say I will tolerate that without moaning, when I do travel I want to travel safely and being a realist in a world where terrorism exists have to put up with such things. If the Vichy thinking French want to make things difficult for us in retaliation so be it, there are enough decent French people worth meeting to make the delay worth the wait.
Quote by Max777
The solution, or part of it is simple.
Remove VAT on items made in Britain, ie Toyota cars.
I don't believe it would be as simple as you think. I'm not even sure that removing VAT on items made in Britain would be legal, no doubt it would contravene some EU law. Even if it was legal, it would be virtually impossible to administrate.
Then let's get out of the EU, I see no advantages in this day and age we get in ratio to the amount being a member costs us
Yes there will be a large loss of tax revenue with the removal of the 20% but manufacturing in all British companies will be increased, companies around the world will see Britain as a good place to build thier new european based factories, unemployment will drop drastically re-couping much of the lost tax revenue or at least not having to spend so much of it on benefits, those currently unemployed will not only have a greater sense of personal achievement but will also have more money in thier pockets to spend and therefore pay more in VAT on some of what they do buy, and will be paying income tax instead of recieving other peoples.
Is this is purely speculation on your behalf? Do you know what the VAT receipts are on UK Manufactured goods? Can you guarantee that the benefits of any increased production, employment etc would be sufficient to offset the lost VAT?
Absolutely, I have no idea if it would do what we need it to do, but it could be looked at couldn't it, if it has been looked at why don't the government tell us, why do they never tell us what they have been looking into trying and the reasons why it wouldn't work, why do politicians always assume that the public don't understand anything and that telling us anything is a bad thing ie many people feel the war in Iraq was wrong because no weapons of mass destruction were found and that it was only about oil, what if the Government had not said we are going to war because of the weapons, what if they had been honest and said "we need to secure the middle east oil is not in the hands of a madman, we have to stop the murder in his country and we believe he may have some pretty nasty weapons and we want to check that out" would people still think the same about the war ? would they understand the situation better ?
our British made products will be 20% cheaper than similar imported items making them much more desireable and anyone who wants to build the average car at will know they can sell it for £2000 cheaper than thier rivals who have them build in other parts of europe, but not just cars, everything we buy. Bring back "made in Britain" bring back National Pride, bring back respect to the unemployed.
Would saving £2K make me buy a Toyota rather than the car I drive. No, it wouldn't. As for our other British made products being 20% cheaper than similar imported items, what products would these be? If we have a plethora of such products that we can manufacture for the same price as the cost of those imported, why do we import in the first place? Simple reason being that these products don't exist.
Certainly not everyone would make the change, you wouldn't I would my car cost £26,000 eighteen months ago, it is a Citroen, I would certainly have looked closer at a Ford or Vauxhall if the £2600, saving meant I could get a better car for the same price, as for other products, there are many but not all would benefit from the tax cut, but surely the Government could look at that and perhaps just exempt VAT on items they thought would cause a beneficial reaction like cars but perhaps not clothing or maybe clothing but not cars, we are in a recession that has started during a recession, Countries are going bankrupt we have to look at everything and do something
Quote by MidsCouple24
If I am delayed at a port or airport for safety or customs checks then I have to say I will tolerate that without moaning, when I do travel I want to travel safely and being a realist in a world where terrorism exists have to put up with such things. If the Vichy thinking French want to make things difficult for us in retaliation so be it, there are enough decent French people worth meeting to make the delay worth the wait.

This has nothing to do with retaliation or Vichy idealism which died when Petain was arrested after the war. It is simply to protect her borders in exactly the same way that Britain does. The Schengen Accord is the very reason why Afghans and various others have been able to move freely across borders within Europe.
When on the table, the Accord was not seen as a threat within Europe at that time except to Britain who were fearful of free passage by the IRA and similar banned organisations in UK and Premier John Major therefore exercised Britain's veto - inconveniently but correctly in my view. But that was then. The world has changed but sadly, the Accord hasn't changed with it.
If, for example, Portugal made such tempting offers of free housing and benefits such that were the opportunities being offered at the time (perceived or otherwise) by Britain, that would have been the place to which these displaced people would flock and France would not have been so troubled as they are at Ports like Calais. The Schengen Accord would have allowed free passage across Spain to Portugal without the hindrance of border controls and without the closed door that exists between Europe and Britain.
And yes, there are enough decent French people to make the wait worthwhile. :thumbup:
Quote by MidsCouple24
Then let's get out of the EU, I see no advantages in this day and age we get in ratio to the amount being a member costs us
Absolutely, I have no idea if it would do what we need it to do, but it could be looked at couldn't it, if it has been looked at why don't the government tell us, why do they never tell us what they have been looking into trying and the reasons why it wouldn't work, why do politicians always assume that the public don't understand anything and that telling us anything is a bad thing ie many people feel the war in Iraq was wrong because no weapons of mass destruction were found and that it was only about oil, what if the Government had not said we are going to war because of the weapons, what if they had been honest and said "we need to secure the middle east oil is not in the hands of a madman, we have to stop the murder in his country and we believe he may have some pretty nasty weapons and we want to check that out" would people still think the same about the war ? would they understand the situation better ?
Certainly not everyone would make the change, you wouldn't I would my car cost £26,000 eighteen months ago, it is a Citroen, I would certainly have looked closer at a Ford or Vauxhall if the £2600, saving meant I could get a better car for the same price, as for other products, there are many but not all would benefit from the tax cut, but surely the Government could look at that and perhaps just exempt VAT on items they thought would cause a beneficial reaction like cars but perhaps not clothing or maybe clothing but not cars, we are in a recession that has started during a recession, Countries are going bankrupt we have to look at everything and do something

If you feel that your idea has possibilities, why not contact your local MP and suggest the idea to him/her. You can report his/her response to the forum.
Are cars that are assembled here actually manufactured here? If you think this is a spurious argument have a look at the time and money that was spent arguing whether a Jaffa Cake is a biscuit or a cake. You do know that both Ford and Vauxhall are not British companies?
Are we in a "recession that has started in a recession"? Certainly not officially, unless you are privy to information we are not. Recent noises by the likes of the CBI suggest that they believe we will avoid a further recession. Countries may well be going bankrupt but do you really believe that the way to resolve this is by starting trade wars?
Quote by Max777

Then let's get out of the EU, I see no advantages in this day and age we get in ratio to the amount being a member costs us
Absolutely, I have no idea if it would do what we need it to do, but it could be looked at couldn't it, if it has been looked at why don't the government tell us, why do they never tell us what they have been looking into trying and the reasons why it wouldn't work, why do politicians always assume that the public don't understand anything and that telling us anything is a bad thing ie many people feel the war in Iraq was wrong because no weapons of mass destruction were found and that it was only about oil, what if the Government had not said we are going to war because of the weapons, what if they had been honest and said "we need to secure the middle east oil is not in the hands of a madman, we have to stop the murder in his country and we believe he may have some pretty nasty weapons and we want to check that out" would people still think the same about the war ? would they understand the situation better ?
Certainly not everyone would make the change, you wouldn't I would my car cost £26,000 eighteen months ago, it is a Citroen, I would certainly have looked closer at a Ford or Vauxhall if the £2600, saving meant I could get a better car for the same price, as for other products, there are many but not all would benefit from the tax cut, but surely the Government could look at that and perhaps just exempt VAT on items they thought would cause a beneficial reaction like cars but perhaps not clothing or maybe clothing but not cars, we are in a recession that has started during a recession, Countries are going bankrupt we have to look at everything and do something

If you feel that your idea has possibilities, why not contact your local MP and suggest the idea to him/her. You can report his/her response to the forum.
That is an excellent idea and I will do that
Are cars that are assembled here actually manufactured here? If you think this is a spurious argument have a look at the time and money that was spent arguing whether a Jaffa Cake is a biscuit or a cake. You do know that both Ford and Vauxhall are not British companies?
As I said, I don't care who owns the Company it matters not if Wallmark of the USA owns ASDA or an Arab owns Harrods, Forgein owned companies building thier factories in Britain create jobs here, It is not the chinese flying in from China that arrive at the factory gates in Telford every morning to make Toshiba stereos, yes we import many parts that go into the assembly of many products we build here but we do have the assembly jobs.
Are we in a "recession that has started in a recession"? Certainly not officially, unless you are privy to information we are not. Recent noises by the likes of the CBI suggest that they believe we will avoid a further recession. Countries may well be going bankrupt but do you really believe that the way to resolve this is by starting trade wars?
Well the government announced that whilst still in a recession situation we were slowly coming out of it and with continued dilligence it would end, then they told us we were in recession and things could get worked, sounded to me like another recession starting in the middle of one.
Quote by MidsCouple24
I would certainly have looked closer at a Ford or Vauxhall if the £2600, saving meant I could get a better car for the same price

is a ford car made in the uk dunno also is a ford actually better than a Citroen? possibly not.i rather like them. :thumbup:
Quote by MidsCouple24
as for other products there are many

are there? such as?
Quote by Max777
As for our other British made products being 20% cheaper than similar imported items, what products would these be? If we have a plethora of such products that we can manufacture for the same price as the cost of those imported, why do we import in the first place? Simple reason being that these products don't exist.

so now there are to peeple asking you mids what these products are. all very well having a sort of plan, but surely you understand that others need more than just " other products ". fancy giving us all a bit of a clue?
for me max is correct these dont exist, unless you can prove otherwise?:notes:
If you think countries care not in a trade war already your very much mistaken, all trade is a war, from the corner shop competing with the supermarket to the builders of ships.
Countries subsidise thier industries all the time, France for example have in the past been well known for subsidising thier farming community.
As I said, in the past (maybe still I haven't been there for a while) Germany had exactly the same policy of charging no VAT on certain German built products assembled in Germany.
France is also well known for blatantly refusing to follow EU directives for example refusing to import British Beef after it was cleared and ordered to do so after the last BSE problem, blockading ports and border crossings on multiple occasions and so on.
I believe there was a time when being a member of the EU gave this Country many advantages, I believe that time is over, what does being an EU member do for us in todays society, we pay vast amounts into it and may be asked to pay a lot more to subsidise Countries nearing bankruptcy and for what ?
Will BMW, Mercedes, Volkswagon, Renault, Citroen and all the other Companies abroad who export goods to the UK refuse to sell to us anymore if we opt out ? I seriously doubt it, those companies and Countries need to trade with us as much as we need to trade with them, do we refuse to trade with non EU countries like Switzerland or the USA ?
I seriously doubt the benefits of being members still outweight the benefits of standing alone now.
Quote by MidsCouple24
I seriously doubt the benefits of being members still outweight the benefits of standing alone now.

For us mere mortals, perhaps so.
But the Political Class will loose so much in terms of junkets to Brussels, Strasbourg and the like and all those lovely 'working' lunches they don't have to pay for (but we have to on their behalf) :lol2:
They're the ones with the vote so it will never happen Jed.
Quote by MidsCouple24
If you think countries care not in a trade war already your very much mistaken, all trade is a war, from the corner shop competing with the supermarket to the builders of ships.
Countries subsidise thier industries all the time, France for example have in the past been well known for subsidising thier farming community.
As I said, in the past (maybe still I haven't been there for a while) Germany had exactly the same policy of charging no VAT on certain German built products assembled in Germany.
France is also well known for blatantly refusing to follow EU directives for example refusing to import British Beef after it was cleared and ordered to do so after the last BSE problem, blockading ports and border crossings on multiple occasions and so on.
I believe there was a time when being a member of the EU gave this Country many advantages, I believe that time is over, what does being an EU member do for us in todays society, we pay vast amounts into it and may be asked to pay a lot more to subsidise Countries nearing bankruptcy and for what ?
Will BMW, Mercedes, Volkswagon, Renault, Citroen and all the other Companies abroad who export goods to the UK refuse to sell to us anymore if we opt out ? I seriously doubt it, those companies and Countries need to trade with us as much as we need to trade with them, do we refuse to trade with non EU countries like Switzerland or the USA ?
I seriously doubt the benefits of being members still outweight the benefits of standing alone now.

Do you honestly believe that if the UK effectively put a levy on all imported goods the move would not be reciprocated by the countries whose exports were affected. We don't export anywhere near the level of goods required to Balance our Payments and the last thing we would need is retaliatory measures to make our exports uncompetitive.
"‘Kind frens. We’re hall honest British workin’ men, but we’ve been hout of work for the last twenty years on account of foreign competition and over-production. We don’t come hout ’ere because we’re too lazy to work; it’s because we can’t get a job. If it wasn’t for foreign competition, the kind’earted Hinglish capitalists would be able to sell their goods and give us Plenty of Work, and if they could, I assure you that we should hall be perfectly willing and contented to go on workin’ our bloody guts out for the benefit of our masters for the rest of our lives. We’re quite willin’ to work: that’s hall we arst for – Plenty of Work – but as we can’t get it we’re forced to come out ’ere and arst you to spare a few coppers towards a crust of bread and a night’s lodgin’."
Written in 1910.