Time to stop feeding urban foxes?

9 Jun 2010

Quote by Lizaleanrob
ffs what do our feckin councils provide other that roundabout sized fish

Very good. I have been waiting three weeks for our local dog warden to come round after I complained about my next door neighbours fucking dog jumping into my garden, and trying to kill me cats.
I am still waiting...
He was Australian and maybe his flight was delayed. lol

9 Jun 2010

Quote by kentswingers777
ffs what do our feckin councils provide other that roundabout sized fish

Very good. I have been waiting three weeks for our local dog warden to come round after I complained about my next door neighbours fucking dog jumping into my garden, and trying to kill me cats.
I am still waiting...
He was Australian and maybe his flight was delayed. lol

icelandic volcanic ash i do belive in leu of the millions of council tax pounds dear old kent council lost in icelandic banks :giggle:

9 Jun 2010

Surely a hungry fox would be more of a threat than a well fed one?

9 Jun 2010

Quote by risky-n-frisky
Surely a hungry fox would be more of a threat than a well fed one?

Actually that is a very good point.

9 Jun 2010

Quote by kentswingers777
Surely a hungry fox would be more of a threat than a well fed one?

Actually that is a very good point.
Its is a good point but not valid, it is not whether their belly's are full or not, its how they fill it. by feeding them they are invited into the garden, humanised and loose their fear of people.
Some have said it make matters far worse as they become to rely on it and if it suddenly stops you have a desperate hungry fox
Foxes in the countryside are a rare site as they avoid human contact

9 Jun 2010

Quote by Dave__Notts
I wonder when she will join the red coat brigade and trample down the high street shouting "Tally ho" on her horse?
It is a sad thing that happened to the babies but unfortunately animals do sometimes attack. This is no reason to kill them.
An adder killed a child in 1975. I feel deeply for the parents but I wouldn't want every adder killed.
As for feeding? Most people do not feed them, they just find our discarded rubbish enough to live on.
Dave_Notts

i disagree,foxes are wary creatures,they must have grown used to humans,and people feeding them seems the likely answer.
They live in the city, of course they have got used to humans. Thats why they are called urban foxes.
They do not need to be fed by people, there is enough rubbish out there to feed the growing fox, mice, rat and bird populations.
Dave_Notts
I agree they do not need to be fed, but many are feeding them and some believe this is adding to the problems some people in towns are experiencing with foxes. That is why I asked the the question, should we be feeding them?

9 Jun 2010

Quote by Bluefish2009
I agree they do not need to be fed, but many are feeding them and some believe this is adding to the problems some people in towns are experiencing with foxes. That is why I asked the the question, should we be feeding them?

Choices and taking responsibility for your actions or inactions.
People feed them, this is not gainst the law but is it morally wrong? In this country we feed the ducks, geese, chickens, foxes, deers, wild sheep on the moors, wild horses, etc. It is a national trait that Brits have........we love the animals. As long as it does not impinge on humans and become a nuisance or on public health then they can do whatever they want. Each person has to make their decision and accept it. Sadly like the parents who left a door open. Luckily it was a fox that had a nibble of the children........it could have been someone who took the children and they never saw them again.
As for foxes being indiscriminate and killing just for fun. Someone once told me that they do not kill like this. They will kill the whole coop or hutch but will return for the carcases and bury them in their territory. Nature rarely wastes............humans do that, just note the bins with the lids up or doing extra runs to the tip after only 10 days since the last time the refuse collection was wink

Someone mentioned that the Council have a duty to get rid of rats/mice and dogs. Only on their own land. Everywhere else it is the responsibility of the land owner. So if you own your own house/business it is up to you to do it.
Dave_Notts

9 Jun 2010

Quote by Meeko
Yep it is time to stop feeding urban foxes, and it is also time for the so called animal well fare organisations to stop releasing the foxes that have been injured and nursed back to health into the outskirts of towns. These foxes are wild animals and after being nursed back to health have almost became tame.. so where do they head..for easy pickings in built up areas.
Foxes are not fluffy cuddly animals they are disease carrying animals that kill for the sake of killing and not just for survival.
Let them spend 5 mins with you nice pet rabbit, chickens etc and I am sure you will change your mind.

Some Humans are not nice animals, they kill for the sake of killing, for fun, not survival. They carry disease and are for more likely to spread disease to other humans.
As for the fox, do you condemn the squire for collecting nut in time of plenty, or a tiger who kills an animal for to big to eat. All go back to their stored food. In the case of the fox, that food is removed by man before it can be eaten.
Travis

9 Jun 2010

Quote by Dave__Notts

I agree they do not need to be fed, but many are feeding them and some believe this is adding to the problems some people in towns are experiencing with foxes. That is why I asked the the question, should we be feeding them?

Choices and taking responsibility for your actions or inactions.
People feed them, this is not gainst the law but is it morally wrong? In this country we feed the ducks, geese, chickens, foxes, deers, wild sheep on the moors, wild horses, etc. It is a national trait that Brits have........we love the animals. As long as it does not impinge on humans and become a nuisance or on public health then they can do whatever they want. Each person has to make their decision and accept it. Sadly like the parents who left a door open. Luckily it was a fox that had a nibble of the children........it could have been someone who took the children and they never saw them again.
As for foxes being indiscriminate and killing just for fun. Someone once told me that they do not kill like this. They will kill the whole coop or hutch but will return for the carcases and bury them in their territory. Nature rarely wastes............humans do that, just note the bins with the lids up or doing extra runs to the tip after only 10 days since the last time the refuse collection was wink

Someone mentioned that the Council have a duty to get rid of rats/mice and dogs. Only on their own land. Everywhere else it is the responsibility of the land owner. So if you own your own house/business it is up to you to do it.
Dave_Notts
Not against the law, don,t even see it as morally wrong, just foolish. Just like the feeding of see-gulls is foolish for very similar reasons, just they are not as dangerous.
It must be a different mentality that some (possibly town or modern) folk have, I was brought up not to feed wild animal, you mention "ducks, geese, chickens, foxes, deers, wild sheep on the moors, wild horses, etc." As a youngster I would have been berated by parents and grandparents for such thoughtless action. Even captive animals should not be fed, never feed others stock, you could feed them some thing the owner of that stock does not want them to have.
To digress into the way foxes can kill, in my experience they are very indiscriminate and often frenzied and will kill more than they can possibly eat. This however falls on the shoulders of the stock keeper, if you have valued stock, protect them from the fox. A very close friend of mine is currently rearing pheasant polts for the next shooting season, he raises them in thousands, the first batch are currently 3 weeks old. They are protected in many ways from the fox, fox wires, which are low level electric fences,to traps and dogs, but the main weapon in the keepers arsenal is, he will bee sleeping on site with a choice of shotgun/firearm close to hand.

9 Jun 2010

Quote by Dave__Notts
just note the bins with the lids up or doing extra runs to the tip after only 10 days since the last time the refuse collection was icon_

Davey your humour knows no boundaries.....though sometimes you are not funny at all.

9 Jun 2010

Quote by Bluefish2009
A very close friend of mine is currently rearing pheasant polts for the next shooting season, he raises them in thousands, the first batch are currently 3 weeks old. They are protected in many ways from the fox, fox wires, which are low level electric fences,to traps and dogs, but the main weapon in the keepers arsenal is, he will bee sleeping on site with a choice of shotgun/firearm close to hand.

Er, yeah. Because rearing them to get shot by humans for sport, is so much closer to nature than foxes killing them to eat.
Gun laws anyone?

9 Jun 2010

Quote by Freckledbird

A very close friend of mine is currently rearing pheasant polts for the next shooting season, he raises them in thousands, the first batch are currently 3 weeks old. They are protected in many ways from the fox, fox wires, which are low level electric fences,to traps and dogs, but the main weapon in the keepers arsenal is, he will bee sleeping on site with a choice of shotgun/firearm close to hand.

Er, yeah. Because rearing them to get shot by humans for sport, is so much closer to nature than foxes killing them to eat.
Gun laws anyone?
Not sure I follow?
They are reared, let loose and then, if unlucky they are shot and eaten. Not sure if you eat meat, but we like ours dead! wink

I have mentioned how foxes kill, but not complained about it

9 Jun 2010

Quote by Freckledbird
Er, yeah. Because rearing them to get shot by humans for sport, is so much closer to nature than foxes killing them to eat.
Gun laws anyone?

:thumbup:

9 Jun 2010

Quote by kentswingers777

Er, yeah. Because rearing them to get shot by humans for sport, is so much closer to nature than foxes killing them to eat.
Gun laws anyone?

:thumbup:
I am missing some thing, you may have to explain to me?
I have not complained about foxes killing dunno

The game keeper rears meat for the meat industry, the only difference is the customer slaughters, dresses and cooks it all him self?

9 Jun 2010

Quote by Bluefish2009

Er, yeah. Because rearing them to get shot by humans for sport, is so much closer to nature than foxes killing them to eat.
Gun laws anyone?

:thumbup:
I am missing some thing, you may have to explain to me?

Quote by Bluefish2009
To digress into the way foxes can kill, in my experience they are very indiscriminate and often frenzied and will kill more than they can possibly eat. This however falls on the shoulders of the stock keeper, if you have valued stock, protect them from the fox. A very close friend of mine is currently rearing pheasant polts for the next shooting season, he raises them in thousands, the first batch are currently 3 weeks old. They are protected in many ways from the fox, fox wires, which are low level electric fences,to traps and dogs, but the main weapon in the keepers arsenal is, he will bee sleeping on site with a choice of shotgun/firearm close to hand.

Like men with guns? I understand killing to eat, but not killing for sport. Like you said, they might be lucky and not be shot. I'd bet there are many that get injured though, and die slowly. Hardly sporting or fair on the poor birds. They are released into a barrage of gunshot. And howver much you might argue that they do it for meat, I'd say 'bollocks' - people with guns pay to shoot just-released birds which have been bred specifically for that purpose. If they aren't bred to be shot at by wealthy gunmen, then they would be humanely killed for their meat. But that wouldn't be quite so sporting, would it?

9 Jun 2010

Quote by Bluefish2009

Er, yeah. Because rearing them to get shot by humans for sport, is so much closer to nature than foxes killing them to eat.
Gun laws anyone?

:thumbup:
I am missing some thing, you may have to explain to me?
I have not complained about foxes killing dunno

The game keeper rears meat for the meat industry, the only difference is the customer slaughters, dresses and cooks it all him self?

Quote by Bluefish2009
The more foxes are fed, the less timid and scared of humans they become, that in my humble view is a recipe for disaster

Why is feeding foxes a recipe for disaster then? Because they'll get brave and sneak into all the bedrooms of all our sleeping children and attack them? Or kill the family pets? I'm struggling here to see what exactly your point is, because you say you're not complaining about foxes killing but then say that feeding them is a recipe for disaster.

9 Jun 2010

Quote by Freckledbird

Er, yeah. Because rearing them to get shot by humans for sport, is so much closer to nature than foxes killing them to eat.
Gun laws anyone?

:thumbup:
I am missing some thing, you may have to explain to me?

Quote by Bluefish2009
To digress into the way foxes can kill, in my experience they are very indiscriminate and often frenzied and will kill more than they can possibly eat. This however falls on the shoulders of the stock keeper, if you have valued stock, protect them from the fox. A very close friend of mine is currently rearing pheasant polts for the next shooting season, he raises them in thousands, the first batch are currently 3 weeks old. They are protected in many ways from the fox, fox wires, which are low level electric fences,to traps and dogs, but the main weapon in the keepers arsenal is, he will bee sleeping on site with a choice of shotgun/firearm close to hand.

Like men with guns? I understand killing to eat, but not killing for sport. Like you said, they might be lucky and not be shot. I'd bet there are many that get injured though, and die slowly. Hardly sporting or fair on the poor birds. They are released into a barrage of gunshot. And howver much you might argue that they do it for meat, I'd say 'bollocks' - people with guns pay to shoot just-released birds which have been bred specifically for that purpose. If they aren't bred to be shot at by wealthy gunmen, then they would be humanely killed for their meat. But that wouldn't be quite so sporting, would it?
The part you highlighted is taken out of context, I followed that by stating that the responciblity for that falls on the stock keeper, not the fox!
If on a rare occation a bird is winged it is collected by gundog and dispacehed, I would not argue there is a sporting element involved but the meat is still eaten. By the way, they are released months before the shooting season starts, not into the guns as you discribe.
Lastly there is no class in shooting, every one involved is from a different background. My family were farmers dunno

I feel it is foolish to feed most wild animals, even some captive one's. The fox is not a demesticated animal, it is a wild animal and would be far better not encorraged into peopls gardens. The less contact one has the less chance of problems occuring.
Thats my humble view

10 Jun 2010

anyone know where tesco`s gets it pheasant and partridge from wink

10 Jun 2010

Quote by Bluefish2009
The part you highlighted is taken out of context, I followed that by stating that the responciblity for that falls on the stock keeper, not the fox!
If on a rare occation a bird is winged it is collected by gundog and dispacehed, I would not argue there is a sporting element involved but the meat is still eaten. By the way, they are released months before the shooting season starts, not into the guns as you discribe.
Lastly there is no class in shooting, every one involved is from a different background. My family were farmers
I feel it is foolish to feed most wild animals, even some captive one's. The fox is not a demesticated animal, it is a wild animal and would be far better not encorraged into peopls gardens. The less contact one has the less chance of problems occuring.
Thats my humble view

I highlighted that part because it described, in your words, how foxes kill. How is it different, a gundog killing a bird or a fox killing it? If the gundog gets it, it's already been injured and in pain/shock. At least the fox kills it outright - unless they torment their prey first?
I agree that people shouldn't feed wild animals, otherwise they'd all be domesticated eventually anyway.

Quote by Bluefish2009
The more foxes are fed, the less timid and scared of humans they become, that in my humble view is a recipe for disaster

Quote by Freckledbird
Why is feeding foxes a recipe for disaster then? Because they'll get brave and sneak into all the bedrooms of all our sleeping children and attack them? Or kill the family pets? I'm struggling here to see what exactly your point is, because you say you're not complaining about foxes killing but then say that feeding them is a recipe for disaster.

So - again I ask, how is feeding them a recipe for disaster?

10 Jun 2010

Quote by Lizaleanrob
anyone know where tesco`s gets it pheasant and partridge from

Farms. They're killed for food, not sport.

10 Jun 2010

Quote by kentswingers777
just note the bins with the lids up or doing extra runs to the tip after only 10 days since the last time the refuse collection was icon_

Davey your humour knows no boundaries.....though sometimes you are not funny at all.
Waste is never funny. Perhaps society and individuals should do something about it then
Dave_Notts

10 Jun 2010

Quote by Freckledbird
anyone know where tesco`s gets it pheasant and partridge from

Farms. They're killed for food, not sport.
As I said, there is the sporting element. They are all Killed for food, the ones taken by sports men have had several months of a wonderful free existence in their natural environment, not in captivity being pumped full of chemicals.
I see it as better than many farmed animals not worse.
Seems we are not to find any middle ground :wink:

10 Jun 2010

Quote by Bluefish2009
To digress into the way foxes can kill, in my experience they are very indiscriminate and often frenzied and will kill more than they can possibly eat.

Do you not have a fridge? Freezer? Larder?
Do you buy enough food to eat today only? Or do you stock up?
Same with foxes. They will kill the whole coop and then bury it for later eating. It is only because they have been disturbed by the owner that they have not had the time to bury it.
The only animal to kill indiscriminately is man. Animals do it for food or protection.
Just to get something clear though. I would go shooting for sport, I support fox hunting, I go fishing. I am not a vegetarian, I eat more meat than the average person, you can tell this by my shape.........round. However, I can see your arguments, I support your right for doing what you do, but I cannot agree with your reasons. Protecting the pheasants from foxes argument, i.e. fox wire and a shotgun. Why not cull a few birds and pump it full of curry or chilli. Give the bodies to the resident fox and they will taste the meat and associate it with something bloody awful. They will then not take the flock, but since they are territorial they will keep all other foxes away. There are humane ways of doing things......some just can't change with the times as it was "what my grandfather did".
Dave_Notts

10 Jun 2010

Quote by Dave__Notts

To digress into the way foxes can kill, in my experience they are very indiscriminate and often frenzied and will kill more than they can possibly eat.

Do you not have a fridge? Freezer? Larder?
Do you buy enough food to eat today only? Or do you stock up?
Same with foxes. They will kill the whole coop and then bury it for later eating. It is only because they have been disturbed by the owner that they have not had the time to bury it.
The only animal to kill indiscriminately is man. Animals do it for food or protection.
Just to get something clear though. I would go shooting for sport, I support fox hunting, I go fishing. I am not a vegetarian, I eat more meat than the average person, you can tell this by my shape.........round. However, I can see your arguments, I support your right for doing what you do, but I cannot agree with your reasons. Protecting the pheasants from foxes argument, i.e. fox wire and a shotgun. Why not cull a few birds and pump it full of curry or chilli. Give the bodies to the resident fox and they will taste the meat and associate it with something bloody awful. They will then not take the flock, but since they are territorial they will keep all other foxes away. There are humane ways of doing things......some just can't change with the times as it was "what my grandfather did".
Dave_Notts
Cant take that risk Dave, at the age they are currently at, we are talking of thousands of birds in each massive shed, a mans living. If the fox got in not only would the ones die that he killed but thousands of others in panic would also.
The fox wire is humane, it does not kill, just warns them off lol

:lol:

10 Jun 2010

Quote by Freckledbird
anyone know where tesco`s gets it pheasant and partridge from

Farms. They're killed for food, not sport.
they have a disclaimer :this product may contain shot
most birds that are not taken home by the sports man is normally sold to a game butcher/dealer
which then sells the game onto the likes of tesco`s
a good shoot will put down about 25`000 poults of which it would expect to shoot between 3000,10,000 birds
the rest will wander evade the guns fly on to other land etc etc so on average the bird has a better than 50% chance of survival
as apposed to a cow who is 100% going to get shot in the head with a bolt same as pigs sheep etc unless they are earmarked for halal innocent

i rather think i know where id be reincarnated given a choice :wink:

10 Jun 2010

Quote by Bluefish2009
Cant take that risk Dave, at the age they are currently at, we are talking of thousands of birds in each massive shed, a mans living. If the fox got in not only would the ones die that he killed but thousands of others in panic would also.
The fox wire is humane, it does not kill, just warns them off :lol:

It is very shortsighted of the business who puts all its eggs into one basket or all its chickens into one coop.
Yes, at the moment as they do not have any other deterent other than the wire and gun. This is the most useful today. But they can start working for tommorrow...........or they are just stuck in their ways. Either no foresight or laziness to me. Plenty of options out there. Just looks like they are stuck in their ways.
Dave_Notts

10 Jun 2010

I am no longer convinced that it is a sport. usually sport involves several spectators. the idea that you could set up seating around the countryside and hope the fox is going to dash in front of an audience is a bit unlikely.
or a staging somewhere in scotland whereupon people sit and look through binoculars at deer as they are picked off by worsted clad upper class buffoons. meanwhile a steady supply of flasks of whisky and venison burgers and partridge hotdogs are handed round by tweed and brogue wearing hostesses.
and also it isn't televised! So it can't possibly be a sport.

10 Jun 2010

Quote by Dave__Notts

Cant take that risk Dave, at the age they are currently at, we are talking of thousands of birds in each massive shed, a mans living. If the fox got in not only would the ones die that he killed but thousands of others in panic would also.
The fox wire is humane, it does not kill, just warns them off :lol:

It is very shortsighted of the business who puts all its eggs into one basket or all its chickens into one coop.
Yes, at the moment as they do not have any other deterent other than the wire and gun. This is the most useful today. But they can start working for tommorrow...........or they are just stuck in their ways. Either no foresight or laziness to me. Plenty of options out there. Just looks like they are stuck in their ways.
Dave_Notts
Sorry, not sure what that comment means. There are more than one shed/polly tunnel if that was your meaning
The keeper has been keepering all his life and sure if he finds a better method of protecting his stock he will quickly adopt it. One thing I can assure you of is keepers are not lazy people, if they were lazy people they would have gone for a very different job!

On refection of coarse the best weapon in the keepers arsenal is probably his dogs
By the way we are talking polly tunnels with black plastic over, on the scale shown below, they are housed in these while under the heat lamps and untill they are old enough to go outside.

10 Jun 2010

Quote by duncanlondon
I am no longer convinced that it is a sport. usually sport involves several spectators. the idea that you could set up seating around the countryside and hope the fox is going to dash in front of an audience is a bit unlikely.
or a staging somewhere in scotland whereupon people sit and look through binoculars at deer as they are picked off by worsted clad upper class buffoons. meanwhile a steady supply of flasks of whisky and venison burgers and partridge hotdogs are handed round by tweed and brogue wearing hostesses.
and also it isn't televised! So it can't possibly be a sport.

The audience follow on horseback
http://www.swingingheaven.co.uk/swingers-forum/viewtopic/305150.html
Seams to be a lot of class bigotry around here

10 Jun 2010

Quote by Bluefish2009
I am no longer convinced that it is a sport. usually sport involves several spectators. the idea that you could set up seating around the countryside and hope the fox is going to dash in front of an audience is a bit unlikely.
or a staging somewhere in scotland whereupon people sit and look through binoculars at deer as they are picked off by worsted clad upper class buffoons. meanwhile a steady supply of flasks of whisky and venison burgers and partridge hotdogs are handed round by tweed and brogue wearing hostesses.
and also it isn't televised! So it can't possibly be a sport.

The audience follow on horseback
http://www.swingingheaven.co.uk/swingers-forum/viewtopic/305150.html
Seams to be a lot of class bigotry around here
they would no longer be spectators then. they would have to be part of the hunt. this would be cruellty to the horse and the rider, and to the amusement for the fox.