ukip on the rise

29 Apr 2013

Quote by Too Hot
In a national parliamentary election you should vote for the party whose policies you believe might best fix the broken economy.
In a local election you should vote for the people who you feel will do most about your local problems and issues.

You really believe that is how people vote?
Life long Tory supporters would never vote for Labour no matter how good the candidate was, and visa versa.
YOU SHOULD always have insurance or YOU SHOULD always pay your taxes, or YOU SHOULD always do things within the law but.............Do I need to carry on? Is that what you think people do when they vote TH? rolleyes

29 Apr 2013

Quote by starlightcouple

In a national parliamentary election you should vote for the party whose policies you believe might best fix the broken economy.
In a local election you should vote for the people who you feel will do most about your local problems and issues.

You really believe that is how people vote?
Life long Tory supporters would never vote for Labour no matter how good the candidate was, and visa versa.
YOU SHOULD always have insurance or YOU SHOULD always pay your taxes, or YOU SHOULD always do things within the law but.............Do I need to carry on? Is that what you think people do when they vote TH? rolleyes

No I don't, I think people should be really stupid and vote for who they think will do the worst job????................

29 Apr 2013

Quote by Too Hot
No I don't, I think people should be really stupid and vote for who they think will do the worst job????................

Really?

Th........I think we all know that you are a staunch Tory, and are you telling me that if the Labour party came up with things that you liked, you would vote for them? innocent

They are all the same cheeks from the same backside TH you should know that. You should also know that huge sections of the electorate would never vote for the " other " party whoever that may be as they just would not go against long standing traditions, certainly not the ones up North. There is usually a huge Tory/ Labour divide and it usually starts around the line of Watford. Most things north of that is Labour and anything South of that is Tory/Lib Dem.
A political manifesto should be a legally binding document as that is what parties use to try and gain votes. Often once a party is in power they renag on those policies and use excuse after excuse as to why they now cannot do what they said they were going to do. Cameron has been an expert on that subject as he used immigration and Europe and the Human rights act, as reasons to vote Tory, as he was going to change things so Britain could govern itself. How many years into his term and most of what he said he would do, he has whimped out on. He is now so desperate to get votes away from UKIP, that he is saying he may opt out of Europe for a couple of weeks, long enough to get Quatada out....laughable for a man of his supposed intelligence, as Farage made the Tory minister on QT last Thursday to look like a right idiot, by having to constantly remind him and his party that they cannot do that. The Tory's think the electorate are going to fall for it a second time? The dirty smears against UKIP over the last few days is proof that the other parties are cacking themselves.

29 Apr 2013

Quote by starlightcouple
Most things north of that is Labour and anything South of that is Tory/Lib Dem.

On what basis Star ?
Given that you've pointed at a geographical one, then come election night look at the 'colour' of the maps displayed and you'll actually see most north of Watford isn't red, just some of the large population areas, which is very different to your geographic view.

29 Apr 2013

I'm not sure that star actually means 'Watford Gap' which is quite a different place IIRC

29 Apr 2013

Quote by flower411
Reality is ALWAYS different to Stars view.

Coming from the person who thinks that most of the UK are too thick to vote anyway, that's a bit rich eh? loon

As an aside..........if you think that most of the UK are indeed too thick to vote, do you put yourself into that category, or are you in the small minority of intelligent intellectuals who would be allowed to vote? :bounce:

29 Apr 2013

Quote by Too Hot
In a national parliamentary election you should vote for the party whose policies you believe might best fix the broken economy.
In a local election you should vote for the people who you feel will do most about your local problems and issues.

in that case we need Paul Daniels or Jesus to fix our broken economy
and Julius Robert Oppenheimer to sort out or local problems lol

29 Apr 2013

Well, to be honest, I will still have a vote at the next General Election (calm down star!) but I could not in any circumstances contemplate voting for a party that will look to withdraw from Europe because of the devasting effect it could have on Brits living abroad. Our residency could be compromised as well as the investment we have in the local economy of our newly adopted domicile.
So, don't expect me to be sympathetic to the aims of UKIP. I really do thnk that the 'little England' attitude of Mr Farage is the wrong way forward for all sorts of other reasons beyond my own personal agenda.

29 Apr 2013

Star, I can't be bothered to respond to each and every one of your posts but as has been alluded to - anyone who has an inability to underestand the consequences of their actions should not be alloswed to vote.
40% of our exports go to Europe - coming out of Europe puts us at risk of the EU imposing import duties on our products so that they can protect their own industries. Never mind that possible consequence eh?
UKIP are like the child who takes his ball away because the game is not going his way. I would rather us negotiate to change Europe because fundamentally we are better of in the European Union than out of it.
You clearly still have not grasped the concept on emigration/immigration and the mindset of people who will travel across the world to better themselves. WE NEED THOSE PEOPLE. We need more people in this country working to support the vast numbers of aging but healthy retirees. Half of the immigrants I know have set up their own businesses since arriving here - that is a good thing for the country.
You keep mentioning them coming here for welfare and support. All that has happened is that the welfare system has been shown up to be not fit for purpose and in dire need of major overhaul. Why not focus on that? The real root of the problem in the UK is overspending and if we cant spend less then we need to earn more through more tax revenue. If some foreigners come here and abuse the system, just makes them clever and us too stupid to fix the problem.
Immigrants and Europe is NOT the problem - WE are the problem.

29 Apr 2013

Quote by Too Hot
Star, I can't be bothered to respond to each and every one of your posts but as has been alluded to - anyone who has an inability to underestand the consequences of their actions should not be alloswed to vote.
40% of our exports go to Europe - coming out of Europe puts us at risk of the EU imposing import duties on our products so that they can protect their own industries. Never mind that possible consequence eh?
UKIP are like the child who takes his ball away because the game is not going his way. I would rather us negotiate to change Europe because fundamentally we are better of in the European Union than out of it.
You clearly still have not grasped the concept on emigration/immigration and the mindset of people who will travel across the world to better themselves. WE NEED THOSE PEOPLE. We need more people in this country working to support the vast numbers of aging but healthy retirees. Half of the immigrants I know have set up their own businesses since arriving here - that is a good thing for the country.
You keep mentioning them coming here for welfare and support. All that has happened is that the welfare system has been shown up to be not fit for purpose and in dire need of major overhaul. Why not focus on that? The real root of the problem in the UK is overspending and if we cant spend less then we need to earn more through more tax revenue. If some foreigners come here and abuse the system, just makes them clever and us too stupid to fix the problem.
Immigrants and Europe is NOT the problem - WE are the problem.

So you have evaded the big question as I thought you would TH. You are a Tory voter. No surprise then for you to have the mindset you do.
Oh and as Farage stated only the other day, will Mercedes or BMW etc stop selling their cars to the UK as we are no longer a part of Europe? Of course they will not. If the UK were no longer a part of Europe it would not make a jot of difference except to the people of the UK, who would not have to sit in front of their tv screens and see time and time again, Europe dictating what we can and cannot do. What is it about that point that you either fail to understand, or just simply ignore.
UKIP has them all worried and it is even laughable on a little web forum like this, how worried the Tory voters really are. lol

Oh and can you please answer this as I asked before please as I see once again you use the immigrant argument time and time again.

Quote by I
Same old story TH. I have heard all this before from you, and how you and " others " use the "Johny Foreigner" or the " immigrant " word constantly. When are you going to wake up and realise that people are not concerned about the immigrants already here as much as the, immigrants about to arrive. UKIP is the only party that talks some kind of sense on the issue, the rest just fumble around it.

29 Apr 2013

Quote by flower411
You see Star, you,ve got me completely wrong. I'm not saying that only intelligent intellectuals should be allowed to vote. I'm saying that people who are incapable of understanding the consequences of their vote should be stopped.

I am intrigued so please enlighten a little thicky like me please. How do you go about ascertaining who is and who is not fit to vote? People like yourself? Would you want some kind of questionnaire where people would have to answer political questions? Or answer questions about the economy and how the political system works? How and what would those questions be as I am really interested.

Quote by flower411
I don't for one moment expect you to understand the difference but it does put me in the group that would be allowed to vote.

Well that is a matter of debate, but then I would suggest that the very people who YOU say would not be able to vote, would say that it is you that should not vote. I understand the difference alright between something that is nuts and something that makes sense.

29 Apr 2013

Quote by starlightcouple
Star, I can't be bothered to respond to each and every one of your posts but as has been alluded to - anyone who has an inability to underestand the consequences of their actions should not be alloswed to vote.
40% of our exports go to Europe - coming out of Europe puts us at risk of the EU imposing import duties on our products so that they can protect their own industries. Never mind that possible consequence eh?
UKIP are like the child who takes his ball away because the game is not going his way. I would rather us negotiate to change Europe because fundamentally we are better of in the European Union than out of it.
You clearly still have not grasped the concept on emigration/immigration and the mindset of people who will travel across the world to better themselves. WE NEED THOSE PEOPLE. We need more people in this country working to support the vast numbers of aging but healthy retirees. Half of the immigrants I know have set up their own businesses since arriving here - that is a good thing for the country.
You keep mentioning them coming here for welfare and support. All that has happened is that the welfare system has been shown up to be not fit for purpose and in dire need of major overhaul. Why not focus on that? The real root of the problem in the UK is overspending and if we cant spend less then we need to earn more through more tax revenue. If some foreigners come here and abuse the system, just makes them clever and us too stupid to fix the problem.
Immigrants and Europe is NOT the problem - WE are the problem.

So you have evaded the big question as I thought you would TH. You are a Tory voter. No surprise then for you to have the mindset you do.
Oh and as Farage stated only the other day, will Mercedes or BMW etc stop selling their cars to the UK as we are no longer a part of Europe? Of course they will not. If the UK were no longer a part of Europe it would not make a jot of difference except to the people of the UK, who would not have to sit in front of their tv screens and see time and time again, Europe dictating what we can and cannot do. What is it about that point that you either fail to understand, or just simply ignore.
UKIP has them all worried and it is even laughable on a little web forum like this, how worried the Tory voters really are. lol

Not sure which big point I have ignored?
Without wishing to labour the point, but I take it you understand the difference between exports and imports? Of course any and every Company would want to export to and sell in the UK. It is large scale foreign imports that are at least partially responsible for our current problems actually, but that is another story. We need to freely export Star and with 40% of our exports going into a European Union that has bigger economic problems than us any protectionist move would be catastrophic. In Europe, our free trade exports are assured - out of Europe, nothing is assured.
Philosophically I have conservative views that is true. Those views have been with me all of my adult life and for you to swing from Labour to UKIP would be like me swinging ( oo er) from Conservative to SWP. Your core beliefs should not change but it appears you are willing to sacrifice all your core social beliefs for ill thought out, dangerous and ignorant policies being introduced by naive politicians or those so disaffected by middle of the road conservatism that they are looking for a more right wing home.

29 Apr 2013

Quote by starlightcouple
. I understand the difference alright between something that is nuts and something that makes sense.

So it makes sense to put 40% of our exports at risk to protectionist action and to send a message to the rest of the world that Britain is not part of Europe. Assuming of course you understand the difference between imports and exports and why a country or economic union that is in great financial difficulty might impose import duties (that is exports from us) to protect their own industry.
It appears your assertion that you know the difference between something that is nuts and something that makes sense is not quite as clear cut as you think.

29 Apr 2013

Quote by Too Hot

. I understand the difference alright between something that is nuts and something that makes sense.

So it makes sense to put 40% of our exports at risk to protectionist action and to send a message to the rest of the world that Britain is not part of Europe. Assuming of course you understand the difference between imports and exports and why a country or economic union that is in great financial difficulty might impose import duties (that is exports from us) to protect their own industry.
It appears your assertion that you know the difference between something that is nuts and something that makes sense is not quite as clear cut as you think.
Th. You are scaremongering. A might here and a risk there, have you any facts at all except your own ideology? You do not know for sure what will happen to the UK if we were out of Europe. The experts do not even know so I do not know how you could possibly have more knowledge than they do.
Europe is going through a tough time, and are you seriously telling me that some member states will refuse to do business with the UK if we are not part of the European Union? Well are you?
Not a shred of evidence to suggest that anything would actually change from now, except of course the billions and billions of pounds the UK taxpayer will save, as the excessive contribution to the mad house that is the European Union.
Can you supply any evidence to back your claims up, that Europe will not do business with us? No twisting or turning TH, proof?

29 Apr 2013

Quote by starlightcouple

. I understand the difference alright between something that is nuts and something that makes sense.

So it makes sense to put 40% of our exports at risk to protectionist action and to send a message to the rest of the world that Britain is not part of Europe. Assuming of course you understand the difference between imports and exports and why a country or economic union that is in great financial difficulty might impose import duties (that is exports from us) to protect their own industry.
It appears your assertion that you know the difference between something that is nuts and something that makes sense is not quite as clear cut as you think.
Th. You are scaremongering. A might here and a risk there, have you any facts at all except your own ideology? You do not know for sure what will happen to the UK if we were out of Europe. The experts do not even know so I do not know how you could possibly have more knowledge than they do.
Europe is going through a tough time, and are you seriously telling me that some member states will refuse to do business with the UK if we are not part of the European Union? Well are you?
Not a shred of evidence to suggest that anything would actually change from now, except of course the billions and billions of pounds the UK taxpayer will save, as the excessive contribution to the mad house that is the European Union.
Can you supply any evidence to back your claims up, that Europe will not do business with us? No twisting or turning TH, proof?
Three months ago it seemed unthinkable that a country would/could confiscate money held in bank accounts. We now know that this is on the table in the future. Protectionism is a last resort economic option but in very difficult times (like now) the EU could quite legitimately impose import duties to protect their own industry or even a soft option like reducing VAT on EU manufactured products.
History shows us that protectionism is a viable option but only as a last resort.... Just before the fat lady sings.
I would like to turn your question around Star and ask you to prove how our exports will benefit from being outside the EU? This is the problem with much of the UKIP policy in as much as it is loaded with scare stories and very short on facts. Every action has consequences and immediately leaving the EU would be catastrophic in the short term and as for proof of how bad it would be........... We would have NO SAY in any European economic policies - that is bad enough.

29 Apr 2013

Quote by Too Hot
Three months ago it seemed unthinkable that a country would/could confiscate money held in bank accounts. We now know that this is on the table in the future. Protectionism is a last resort economic option but in very difficult times (like now) the EU could quite legitimately impose import duties to protect their own industry or even a soft option like reducing VAT on EU manufactured products.

Nope no answer there. Scratches head emotion.

Quote by Too Hot
History shows us that protectionism is a viable option but only as a last resort.... Just before the fat lady sings.

Nope nothing there either, just evasion of the answers. Starting to find the whole thing laughable, as the evasion to the question is so obvious, as there is not a shred of proof to your claims.

Quote by Too Hot
I would like to turn your question around Star and ask you to prove how our exports will benefit from being outside the EU? This is the problem with much of the UKIP policy in as much as it is loaded with scare stories and very short on facts. Every action has consequences and immediately leaving the EU would be catastrophic in the short term and as for proof of how bad it would be........... We would have NO SAY in any European economic policies - that is bad enough.

:rotflmao:
Typical. I ask a question and you evade the answer, but ask me a question instead........laughable absolutely hilarious.
Just like Cameron does all the time TH, a lot of flapping and huffing and puffing, but in the end no answers and very little in the way of fresh ideals.
Flipping hilarious. Cheers for that TH..........made my night. :bounce::bounce::bounce:

29 Apr 2013

A marvelous piece.

30 Apr 2013

Hummmm
An interesting take star but when do you ever get a definitive answer from a politician?
Cast your mind back to Nick Clegg on tuition fees. When he made that pledge, before the last election, he never for one moment expected to have been in a position to be called on to see it through.
I think you have derided him for that enough times in these forums to know just how truthful it is.
So what makes Farage any different?
Same meat, different gravy.
He makes his claims of withdrawal from Europe knowing full well that it will never come to pass and even if he did surprise the nation by forming the junior partnership in a coalition, like the LibDems now, his 'tuition fees' will be 'Europe' and once again, the nation will be in outcry.

30 Apr 2013

Quote by Too Hot
Not sure which big point I have ignored?
Without wishing to labour the point, but I take it you understand the difference between exports and imports? Of course any and every Company would want to export to and sell in the UK. It is large scale foreign imports that are at least partially responsible for our current problems actually, but that is another story. We need to freely export Star and with 40% of our exports going into a European Union that has bigger economic problems than us any protectionist move would be catastrophic. In Europe, our free trade exports are assured - out of Europe, nothing is assured.
Philosophically I have conservative views that is true. Those views have been with me all of my adult life and for you to swing from Labour to UKIP would be like me swinging ( oo er) from Conservative to SWP. Your core beliefs should not change but it appears you are willing to sacrifice all your core social beliefs for ill thought out, dangerous and ignorant policies being introduced by naive politicians or those so disaffected by middle of the road conservatism that they are looking for a more right wing home.

not wishing to point out the obvious
but if we import more free good from the EU than we export then would the tax on these items that we could then impose bring in much needed revenue. dunno

or are you suggesting that we still waiver import duty but pay it ourselves to other countries.
id waiver the germans and thier car market in the uk would be more desperate for free trade than we would wink

............just a thought

30 Apr 2013

Quote by starlightcouple

Three months ago it seemed unthinkable that a country would/could confiscate money held in bank accounts. We now know that this is on the table in the future. Protectionism is a last resort economic option but in very difficult times (like now) the EU could quite legitimately impose import duties to protect their own industry or even a soft option like reducing VAT on EU manufactured products.

Nope no answer there. Scratches head emotion.

Quote by Too Hot
History shows us that protectionism is a viable option but only as a last resort.... Just before the fat lady sings.

Nope nothing there either, just evasion of the answers. Starting to find the whole thing laughable, as the evasion to the question is so obvious, as there is not a shred of proof to your claims.

Quote by Too Hot
I would like to turn your question around Star and ask you to prove how our exports will benefit from being outside the EU? This is the problem with much of the UKIP policy in as much as it is loaded with scare stories and very short on facts. Every action has consequences and immediately leaving the EU would be catastrophic in the short term and as for proof of how bad it would be........... We would have NO SAY in any European economic policies - that is bad enough.

:rotflmao:
Typical. I ask a question and you evade the answer, but ask me a question instead........laughable absolutely hilarious.
Just like Cameron does all the time TH, a lot of flapping and huffing and puffing, but in the end no answers and very little in the way of fresh ideals.
Flipping hilarious. Cheers for that TH..........made my night. :bounce::bounce::bounce:
What am I supposed to answer? No point in ridiculing me to answer something if you keep the question a big secret.
And
We are in a position of stability where the majority of our exports go to our near neighbours in Europe. Any proposal to change that position of stability requires a considered risk assessment by anyone proposing that change. It is absolutely not the role of those wishing to maintain the status quo to prove anything - it is the role of those seeking change to prove beyond doubt that the changes will not result in us being poorer as a result.
A mindset created by reading the Daily Mail is insufficient to understand the pros and cons of European Membership. Having an ability to influence European trade policy is always going to be better for the UK than having no influence at all and with the continuing economic downturn continuing, Protectionism is still a real threat as was seen in 2009 - a tax of upto 60% was levied on Chinese candles to protect German candle makers.
Good debate is healthy and educational all round but trying to debate an issue where no attempt is being made to understand the underlying issues seems to be a complete waste of time. No doubt Europe will be a major part of the next General Election and many more facts will be revealed that will enable even the most biased to have a more educated opinion.

30 Apr 2013

Quote by Lizaleanrob

Not sure which big point I have ignored?
Without wishing to labour the point, but I take it you understand the difference between exports and imports? Of course any and every Company would want to export to and sell in the UK. It is large scale foreign imports that are at least partially responsible for our current problems actually, but that is another story. We need to freely export Star and with 40% of our exports going into a European Union that has bigger economic problems than us any protectionist move would be catastrophic. In Europe, our free trade exports are assured - out of Europe, nothing is assured.
Philosophically I have conservative views that is true. Those views have been with me all of my adult life and for you to swing from Labour to UKIP would be like me swinging ( oo er) from Conservative to SWP. Your core beliefs should not change but it appears you are willing to sacrifice all your core social beliefs for ill thought out, dangerous and ignorant policies being introduced by naive politicians or those so disaffected by middle of the road conservatism that they are looking for a more right wing home.

not wishing to point out the obvious
but if we import more free good from the EU that we export then would the tax on these items that we could then impose bring in much needed revenue. dunno

or are you suggesting that we still waiver import duty but pay it ourselves to other countries.
id waiver the germans and thier car market in the uk would be more desperate for free trade than we would wink

............just a thought
Protectionism was a feature of the last worldwide recession in the 1930's and the conditions today are very similar. On this very forum people have asked the question of how we can best support British industry and one suggestion was to reduce VAT on British made goods. Protectionism means that when all else fails you take measures that will disadvantage other countries in order to protect your own industry. Protectionism does not necessarily have to blanket - the EU have proposed it recently on candles and steel.
Of course any moves by the EU to protect its own industries would result in a tit for tat response but remember that tiny little Britain is much smaller than Europe and the net effect would be negative for us.
Britain being a part of Europe is attractive to foreign companies because they can invest in Europe without investing in the Euro and if our EU benefits are lost there is very little motivation to invest in the UK because trade benefits to the rest of Europe can no longer be assured. Being part of the EU affords a permanency of rights within the community, being out of it and your seat at the table will be gone and nothing is assured.

30 Apr 2013

Quote by Too Hot
What am I supposed to answer? No point in ridiculing me to answer something if you keep the question a big secret.

What are you supposed to answer TH? I thought it was obvious, as you seem to have a lot of the answers I would have thought my question would have been an easy one so............I shall ask it again as I am sure that I am not the only one that would like to know.
Can you supply any evidence to back your claims up, that Europe will not do business with us? No twisting or turning TH, proof?
Waiting for a proper response to back up your claim emotion. :notes:

30 Apr 2013

Quote by flower411
Star you are notorious on here for failing to answer questions put to you ! It's incredible that you have the audacity to accuse somebody else of the same when the problem is that you fail to understand the answers that people are constantly giving you.
You seem to think that posting links, that you would like to think support your arguments, is a way of answering questions.
Most of the time the links you post, not only do not support your argument, but in many cases totally contradict it. Moving the words around in your head so that the links say what you want them to say just doesn't cut it !

Wind ya neck in Flower. You supply your opinion and I try and supply factual stuff, there is a clear difference you know. innocent

30 Apr 2013

Quote by starlightcouple
Can you supply any evidence to back your claims up, that Europe will not do business with us? No twisting or turning TH, proof?

Evidence of future possibility?
I understood that we are having a debate? How on earth can anyone provide "evidence" of something that has not yet happened. Even Sherlock would have difficulties with that one.
I am supporting the status quo on the balance of likelihoods that being part of Europe is better for the UK than being out of it - no more than that. It is you who is proposing change and therefore you who needs to make a compelling argument that Britains exports will not be at risk and also that Britain would be better off. It is you who is proposing to take action and therefore you who should be undertaking due diligence and completing a comprehensive risk assessment. You can't do that Star because UKIP themselves have neither printed nor published any facts that would support Britains position outside of the EU. Until that happens - you have to think for yourself and consider the arguments, unfortunately it appears you don't really want to think anything through.
There is one very simple question that anyone who is proposing that the UK leaving Europe needs to answer. At the moment 54% of our worldwide exports go to Europe, this is part of the 40% of all our trade (imports ands exports)in Europe. At the moment our exports into the EU are protected by virtue of our seat in the EU. How would you ensure that those exports are protected if we are no longer part of that group and have no say in the groups economic policy? Remember that many of these exported goods are also made in Europe and so let's take a simple example that was in the news recently:
BS Converters makes catalytic converters in the UK and exports £20,000,000 a year into the EU. There is an equivilent Spanish Company also making the same products. Britain leaves the EU and the EU naturally would prefer that EU manufactured products are consumed within the EU - this is good for the Spanish Company. How do you convince BS Converters that leaving the EU will be good for them? Instead of being trading within the EU they are now outsiders and competing against Chinese, Asian and South American Companies to get into the EU market.

30 Apr 2013

Quote by Too Hot
Evidence of future possibility?
I understood that we are having a debate? How on earth can anyone provide "evidence" of something that has not yet happened. Even Sherlock would have difficulties with that one.

But then you asked me to predict the future yourself by asking me...

Quote by Too Hot
I would like to turn your question around Star and ask you to prove how our exports will benefit from being outside the EU?

You won't answer my question about the possible future outcome of something, and yet expect me to answer it. The answer is simple TH........who knows? But you spend your time on here trying to convince people that being out of Europe will have dire consequences for the UK, on and on you go about it and I asked you many times to supply the proof of this which you will not or cannot, and then ask me to look into the crystal ball. The only way of knowing is by withdrawing from Europe which " apparently " if a referendum were held today with a simple in or out, we would be out. That is real democracy TH, allowing the people of this great country do you want to remain part of a mad house that dictates to the UK, or to get out but continue to trade with Europe, but be allowed to run our own affairs. As an aside TH answer me another question...Did you want the UK to enter the Euro??

Quote by Too Hot
I am supporting the status quo on the balance of likelihoods that being part of Europe is better for the UK than being out of it - no more than that. It is you who is proposing change and therefore you who needs to make a compelling argument that Britains exports will not be at risk and also that Britain would be better off. It is you who is proposing to take action and therefore you who should be undertaking due diligence and completing a comprehensive risk assessment. You can't do that Star because UKIP themselves have neither printed nor published any facts that would support Britains position outside of the EU. Until that happens - you have to think for yourself and consider the arguments, unfortunately it appears you don't really want to think anything through.

Will Britain's interests be damaged by withdrawing from Europe? You have no proof that it will so please stop the scaremongering over that issue. The " balance of probability " is simply not a good enough argument.

Quote by Too Hot
There is one very simple question that anyone who is proposing that the UK leaving Europe needs to answer. At the moment 54% of our worldwide exports go to Europe, this is part of the 40% of all our trade (imports ands exports)in Europe. At the moment our exports into the EU are protected by virtue of our seat in the EU. How would you ensure that those exports are protected if we are no longer part of that group and have no say in the groups economic policy? Remember that many of these exported goods are also made in Europe and so let's take a simple example that was in the news recently:

As Farage clearly and simply puts it....Will the likes of BMW or Mercedes or in fact any other company in these tough times, want to stop trading with British companies? Why on earth would they want to? Money is money and business is business no matter what part of the world you come from.

Quote by Too Hot
BS Converters makes catalytic converters in the UK and exports £20,000,000 a year into the EU. There is an equivilent Spanish Company also making the same products. Britain leaves the EU and the EU naturally would prefer that EU manufactured products are consumed within the EU - this is good for the Spanish Company. How do you convince BS Converters that leaving the EU will be good for them? Instead of being trading within the EU they are now outsiders and competing against Chinese, Asian and South American Companies to get into the EU market.

I could understand a tiny piece of your argument IF Britain was part of the Euro, I could understand possibly how being out of that could make a tiny bit of difference, but we still trade in pound notes . The pound is strong against the Euro, the Euro is about to fall flat on it's arse. Other countries like Greece and Ireland and Cyprus, given a second chance would never have joined the Euro as it has been devastating for those countries. The pound is strong and it is a good currency to deal with. Us being out of Europe will have a zero effect on that.
The trouble with you TH is you deal with the balance of probability way too often. Looking at all the facts with regards to Europe nobody knows for sure how things will pan out if Britain quits the Euro zone, for it seems a bigger majority of people who would vote out, they feel it would greatly benefit the UK. Go figure that one eh?
Oh and a poll out today by YouGov I think it is, gives the Lib Dems 11% of the vote and UKIP a 14% share of the vote. The Tory party are losing votes hand over fist and I am not bothered about these local elections, but come 2015 when the Tory party make even more cocks up and sting the poor to claw back some of the money that big business steals in tax avoidance like N Power, maybe UKIP will strike a deal with Labour. You're worst nightmare I bet eh Th? rotflmao

30 Apr 2013

A Brilliant article...

"Farage may come across as a bit of a circus act, but he speaks for millions of people who feel utterly disenfranchised by the political system.
I wouldn’t blame anyone who votes for UKIP this week, if that’s what it takes to get the attention of the cosy little cartel at Westminster.
You can tell Farage has got the mainstream politicians worried. If they weren’t concerned, they wouldn’t be wheeling out big guns like Ken Clarke to trash UKIP".
:thumbup::thumbup:
What I will say is that the ex Justice Minister

:rotflmao:, needs to be wheeled out as his like should be extinct in today's politics. His views on Europe are plain for all to see and he was a staunch supporter of the UK joining the Euro. Ask him the same question now though..........a back peddling typical old dinosaur Tory....Out of touch and well past the sell by date.

30 Apr 2013

Quote by starlightcouple
As Farage clearly and simply puts it....Will the likes of BMW or Mercedes or in fact any other company in these tough times, want to stop trading with British companies? Why on earth would they want to? Money is money and business is business no matter what part of the world you come from.

It is a sad indictment of our society that people who do not know the difference between imports and exports are allowed to vote and thus shape the future UK economy. Britain is at least partially in the mess we are in because of a selfish ignorance in not knowing what happens when we buy the cheapest imported goods. The next step is of course dismissing what exports we do have because we don't think it matters.
I'm alright Jack - I live in Ingerland.

30 Apr 2013

Quote by starlightcouple
As Farage clearly and simply puts it....Will the likes of BMW or Mercedes or in fact any other company in these tough times, want to stop trading with British companies? Why on earth would they want to? Money is money and business is business no matter what part of the world you come from.

Quote by Too Hot
It is a sad indictment of our society that people who do not know the difference between imports and exports are allowed to vote and thus shape the future UK economy. Britain is at least partially in the mess we are in because of a selfish ignorance in not knowing what happens when we buy the cheapest imported goods. The next step is of course dismissing what exports we do have because we don't think it matters.
I'm alright Jack - I live in Ingerland.

The reasons we are in the mess we are in is the last Governments massive overspending policies, and the banking collapse. It has nothing to do with exports or imports, it is simple maths TH. Have a pound and spend two pounds long enough you will go skint. Nothing difficult to understand there about simple economics.
I live in reality TH, certainly not in " Ingerland ".
As a little aside is there any proof that these austerity measures adopted by your party are actually working? Or do you like the Tory party think a 0.3% rise is something to cheer about? Oh and I fail to see you answer the point of the strong pound against the Euro. Care to explain the good that does to our balance of trade TH?

30 Apr 2013

I cannot understand for the life of me how anyone could seriously think of voting for those clowns. Apart from their anti-immigrant, anti-EU stance does anyone even know what they stand for? Really? I don't see how they can, even UKIP don't bloody know. Emails between Farage, Godfrey Bloom et al talk about buying policy off the shelf from right-wing think tanks to flesh out their manifesto and save them the trouble of having to work out what they think between them themselves. The flat tax rate they've been banging on about so much seems now in doubt, with Farage apparently distancing himself from it as policy on last week's Question Time, and talking now about a two-tier flat tax in recent days. WTF is a two-tier flat tax? It's an oxymoron, that's what it is. These guys are making it up on the bag of a bloody fag-packet as they go, what they have put forward do not a program of government make.
'Ah but Neil, we're not expecting them to form a government. It's a protest vote against the three main parties', I hear you cry. Well fair enough, but what message does that send to government? That a large chunk of the electorate want an even sharper turn to the right than we've had under this government already? Seriously? After seeing the impact of this government's austerity measures on public services, not to mention on their own pockets and those of the working poor that's what people want? They are even further to the right than the bloody Tories, you only have to look at their proposals on , etc to know that. Members of the disaffected Tory right, and those still further to the right of them, fair enough, that I can understand, but how anyone who previously voted Labour, presumably cos they believed in social justice could even think of voting for them is beyond me. Madness. Absolute madness.

30 Apr 2013

Quote by neilinleeds
I cannot understand for the life of me how anyone could seriously think of voting for those clowns. Apart from their anti-immigrant, anti-EU stance does anyone even know what they stand for? Really? I don't see how they can,

But these are the two main concerns for the electorate Neil, and you wonder why UKIP are taking votes? When people were asked about their concerns these two examples came up time and time again, can you not see that?
I can see you are a bit confused Neil so for your benefit and anyone else.

Seems there are a few others who actually think the opposite of you Neil it would seem.