Was this woman right?

6 Aug 2009

Quote by kentswingers777
Maybe that is where society has gone wrong then?
When a child does not know what the " norm " is, what have they got to judge anything by?
Normal to a lot of people would be for a couple to have a child together, and raise it together. A married couple where a child is created by love for each other, and not to be given away like an old times have changed, but not always for the better.
I could never understand how a Mother can conceive a child and carry it for nine months, and then give it away. No matter who they are giving it too.

If a child does not understand what 'normal' is, then maybe they will not be judgemental anyway. That's not such a bad thing.
What is normal for a lot of people, is completely abhorrent to others. The couple love one another - that means the child will grow up in a loving, safe environment, with parents who have professions and are solvent. What's more, they aren't benefit cheats. Can't ask for much more than that.
I don't think anyone is asking for your opinion on surrogacy - and you don't have to understand it as it won't apply to you anyway. Not all women understand it either - as long as the ones who do it are content, no need to question their motives.

6 Aug 2009

Quote by Freckledbird

Maybe that is where society has gone wrong then?
When a child does not know what the " norm " is, what have they got to judge anything by?
Normal to a lot of people would be for a couple to have a child together, and raise it together. A married couple where a child is created by love for each other, and not to be given away like an old times have changed, but not always for the better.
I could never understand how a Mother can conceive a child and carry it for nine months, and then give it away. No matter who they are giving it too.

If a child does not understand what 'normal' is, then maybe they will not be judgemental anyway. That's not such a bad thing.
What is normal for a lot of people, is completely abhorrent to others. The couple love one another - that means the child will grow up in a loving, safe environment, with parents who have professions and are solvent. What's more, they aren't benefit cheats. Can't ask for much more than that.
I don't think anyone is asking for your opinion on surrogacy - and you don't have to understand it as it won't apply to you anyway. Not all women understand it either - as long as the ones who do it are content, no need to question their motives.
Hello Fb....you enjoying your seven weeks off? wink

Of course people can question their motives when they are giving away the most precious thing in life.....a child.
Most Mothers would find that utterly abhorrent, and to give a child away that you have carried for nine months, in itself asks questions about the of course questions can be asked about her motives.

6 Aug 2009

Quote by kentswingers777

Maybe that is where society has gone wrong then?
When a child does not know what the " norm " is, what have they got to judge anything by?
Normal to a lot of people would be for a couple to have a child together, and raise it together. A married couple where a child is created by love for each other, and not to be given away like an old times have changed, but not always for the better.
I could never understand how a Mother can conceive a child and carry it for nine months, and then give it away. No matter who they are giving it too.

If a child does not understand what 'normal' is, then maybe they will not be judgemental anyway. That's not such a bad thing.
What is normal for a lot of people, is completely abhorrent to others. The couple love one another - that means the child will grow up in a loving, safe environment, with parents who have professions and are solvent. What's more, they aren't benefit cheats. Can't ask for much more than that.
I don't think anyone is asking for your opinion on surrogacy - and you don't have to understand it as it won't apply to you anyway. Not all women understand it either - as long as the ones who do it are content, no need to question their motives.
Hello Fb....you enjoying your seven weeks off? wink

Of course people can question their motives when they are giving away the most precious thing in life.....a child.
Most Mothers would find that utterly abhorrent, and to give a child away that you have carried for nine months, in itself asks questions about the of course questions can be asked about her motives.
You're quite right. It takes someone incredibly loving, giving, possibly even altruistic. Someone who understands what that child would mean to the recipient, and that that child would be given all the love they could ever need.
As far as I can see, there are two possible motivations for surrogacy. Love, and money. This appears to have been done for love.
I'm not expecting a response, you appear to have been struck with that nasty case of selective blindness which leaves you unable to respond to y points- again.

6 Aug 2009

So sorry Witchy...it's a bit like pm's, I cannot reply to everyone. wink

6 Aug 2009

Quote by kentswingers777
So sorry Witchy...it's a bit like pm's, I cannot reply to everyone.

is this where your suppose to say "Witchy" wants you? rolleyes

6 Aug 2009

Quote by Mr-Powers
So sorry Witchy...it's a bit like pm's, I cannot reply to everyone.

is this where your suppose to say "Witchy" wants you? rolleyes

He might, but he's not quite hit the nail on the head with the rest of the sentence yet. :wink:

6 Aug 2009

We must be careful not to get mixed up here.
Normal simply means common - the majority of a population exhibiting a particular characteristic.
It does NOT imply or confer any aspect of acceptable.
That is a human interpretation - commonly (normally? LOL) by those who consider themselves to be the only acceptable version of human. And since there is such a wide range of humans, that premise is patently inaccurate.
No one group have the right to dictate that they are the acceptable ones.
Obviously some humans (or more exactly their behaviour) is unnaceptable - but in an enlightened time as we would hope to live in, that is criminals, spouse-beaters and child molesters - NOT HOMOSEXUALS.
People used to be burned, stoned, rejected by society (in edit: STILL ARE!!) for not conforming with one group's definition of normal. Not because this group was right, but because it was more powerful.

7 Aug 2009

If your biggest issue is with the fact that a mother 'gave away' her child, rather than the type of people she gave it to, surely the fact that she is the sister of one of the 'parents' means she will still have plenty of contact with said child.
I would love to be able to say I could give a child to one of my sisters if they were unable to have one themselves. I know I would struggle to give away a baby, but I'd still be part of that child's upbringing simply by being related to the adoptive parent. I can't say for sure I could actually do it because I have not been put in that situation. I feel I have completed my own family and now am quite looking forward to the idea of being a granny, although not too soon I hope :shock: .

8 Aug 2009

Quote by Witchy

Maybe that is where society has gone wrong then?
When a child does not know what the " norm " is, what have they got to judge anything by?
Normal to a lot of people would be for a couple to have a child together, and raise it together. A married couple where a child is created by love for each other, and not to be given away like an old times have changed, but not always for the better.
I could never understand how a Mother can conceive a child and carry it for nine months, and then give it away. No matter who they are giving it too.

If a child does not understand what 'normal' is, then maybe they will not be judgemental anyway. That's not such a bad thing.
What is normal for a lot of people, is completely abhorrent to others. The couple love one another - that means the child will grow up in a loving, safe environment, with parents who have professions and are solvent. What's more, they aren't benefit cheats. Can't ask for much more than that.
I don't think anyone is asking for your opinion on surrogacy - and you don't have to understand it as it won't apply to you anyway. Not all women understand it either - as long as the ones who do it are content, no need to question their motives.
Hello Fb....you enjoying your seven weeks off? wink

Of course people can question their motives when they are giving away the most precious thing in life.....a child.
Most Mothers would find that utterly abhorrent, and to give a child away that you have carried for nine months, in itself asks questions about the of course questions can be asked about her motives.
You're quite right. It takes someone incredibly loving, giving, possibly even altruistic. Someone who understands what that child would mean to the recipient, and that that child would be given all the love they could ever need.
As far as I can see, there are two possible motivations for surrogacy. Love, and money. This appears to have been done for love.
I'm not expecting a response, you appear to have been struck with that nasty case of selective blindness which leaves you unable to respond to y points- again.
So kent what is the big problems with this, the fact the mother giving away the child or who she has given the child away to or do you have a problem with both of the issues.

8 Aug 2009

Both of the issues.
The fact a Mother can give away a child she has carried for nine months, would not sit well with most Mothers.
The second Is I believe that this kind of thing is NOT the norm and therefore the child will suffer, from all walks of life.
Forget about the Mother for a moment and think about the child and the level of abuse he will suffer both as a child and as an adult.
When you are brought up in exceptional circumstances such as this, surely it will have a detrimental affect on the child when older?

9 Aug 2009

Quote by kentswingers777
Both of the issues.
The fact a Mother can give away a child she has carried for nine months, would not sit well with most Mothers.
The second Is I believe that this kind of thing is NOT the norm and therefore the child will suffer, from all walks of life.
Forget about the Mother for a moment and think about the child and the level of abuse he will suffer both as a child and as an adult.
When you are brought up in exceptional circumstances such as this, surely it will have a detrimental affect on the child when older?

The child is being raised by 2 parents of the same sex, so you could say the same about a single parent bring up a child on their own. They only have the parenting from ever a mother or a father.
And no lets not put aside the issue of the mother giving away the child, I think it is a point you have raised several times, have you been through this experience? Do you know what the mother goes through, do you understand why they do it?

9 Aug 2009

Quote by soul-girl
Both of the issues.
The fact a Mother can give away a child she has carried for nine months, would not sit well with most Mothers.
The second Is I believe that this kind of thing is NOT the norm and therefore the child will suffer, from all walks of life.
Forget about the Mother for a moment and think about the child and the level of abuse he will suffer both as a child and as an adult.
When you are brought up in exceptional circumstances such as this, surely it will have a detrimental affect on the child when older?

The child is being raised by 2 parents of the same sex, so you could say the same about a single parent bring up a child on their own. They only have the parenting from ever a mother or a father.
And no lets not put aside the issue of the mother giving away the child, I think it is a point you have raised several times, have you been through this experience? Do you know what the mother goes through, do you understand why they do it?
No I have not been through it, nor do I understand why they do it.
If we never asked a question based on your arguement of " have you been through this experience ", then there would never be any discussion as the only people who could talk about it, are the ones that have been through it.
Which seems a usual question to ask when people do not like what someone has either written or spoken about.
Mothers out there in general may well understand why she did it, but if you could find one woman in ten thousand who would do it, then I would be very suprised indeed. Hence why her actions are certainly not normal to most people, nor is the enviroment in which she will be placing her child into.

9 Aug 2009

Quote by kentswingers777
Both of the issues.
The fact a Mother can give away a child she has carried for nine months, would not sit well with most Mothers.
And you base this on what??...this is an assumption based on your opinion and only your opinion.
The second Is I believe that this kind of thing is NOT the norm and therefore the child will suffer, from all walks of life.
What is not the norm...surragacy or both sex parents...again this is your assumption based on little or no facts at all...
Forget about the Mother for a moment and think about the child and the level of abuse he will suffer both as a child and as an adult.
Level of abuse from who...what the same level of abuse that any child would get if say other children found out that their parents were swingers!!!
When you are brought up in exceptional circumstances such as this, surely it will have a detrimental affect on the child when older?
Based on what??...if a child is brought up by loving parents regardless of their gender,how this that detrimental,i'm not sorry for saying this Kent...your argument against this is not only bollocks but your selective narrow mindedness is beyond belief...FFS your a married couple that meet up with strangers for sex...is that normal??

9 Aug 2009

Quote by kentswingers777
If my brother found that he couldn't have children and I was in a position to help then I'd help him regardless of his sexuality and who his partner was.

Whilst I agree that the artical focused mainly on their sexuality, will the child not grow up in an enviroment that is not the norm?
If that was to be the case, will the child be ridiculed because of it, and will that child be unhappy because of that?
How far are people allowed to take the IVF or the surrogate issues?
I think these issues should be looked at very carefully, and think of the childs best interests, and not the adults making the decisions.
I dont see what the problem is with 2 "gay men" having a child together. It shouldnt matter if it was a single gay female, single gay male, gay couple or straight couple having the baby through IVF or surrogate person.
A few years back I remember seeing a program about a single straight male who had gone down the path of having 2 children by surrogate mothers as he said he'd never found the right woman to have a child with. Would you say that is wrong?
These days I dont think there is a normal environment to bring a child up in, but most importantly the fact that the child is obviously very wanted, cared for and loved far outways the issues of the parents sexuality.
Maybe that is where society has gone wrong then?
When a child does not know what the " norm " is, what have they got to judge anything by?
Normal to a lot of people would be for a couple to have a child together, and raise it together. A married couple where a child is created by love for each other, and not to be given away like an old times have changed, but not always for the better.
I could never understand how a Mother can conceive a child and carry it for nine months, and then give it away. No matter who they are giving it too.
This bit high lighted is where I would like society to be so I don't see it as society gone wrong but a society that is more accepting.
Just because the child is bringing bought up by two gay loving parents cant be wrong can it?
Children get judged to much already by people in society for far to many reasons, it is up to the person that is judging to find out why they themselves see it as wrong from the normal.
Surely we can be more broadminded as a society and question who said what is normal in the first place, only then would we be able to question our own judgements on people and question if they are right or wrong, only then would we have an open minded society and one I would feel very much part of.

9 Aug 2009

Quote by Mr-Powers
Both of the issues.
The fact a Mother can give away a child she has carried for nine months, would not sit well with most Mothers.
And you base this on what??...this is an assumption based on your opinion and only your opinion.
The second Is I believe that this kind of thing is NOT the norm and therefore the child will suffer, from all walks of life.
What is not the norm...surragacy or both sex parents...again this is your assumption based on little or no facts at all...
Forget about the Mother for a moment and think about the child and the level of abuse he will suffer both as a child and as an adult.
Level of abuse from who...what the same level of abuse that any child would get if say other children found out that their parents were swingers!!!
When you are brought up in exceptional circumstances such as this, surely it will have a detrimental affect on the child when older?
Based on what??...if a child is brought up by loving parents regardless of their gender,how this that detrimental,i'm not sorry for saying this Kent...your argument against this is not only bollocks but your selective narrow mindedness is beyond belief...FFS your a married couple that meet up with strangers for sex...is that normal??

Powers.......I do not expect you to ever agree with anything I say, but these are my opinions and the opinions of five different women who I have asked.
They are just normal Mothers who cannot understand a woman giving up her child. So it is not just my opinion.
Ya seem to hate me expressing an opinion for that is what I said somewhere in one of my previous posts. My opinion.....simple as that, or are you one of those lefties that hate free speech?
Anyway you keep slagging me or my opinions off matey, for I believe what I write and certainly not you will ever stop me from doing that.
You ever thought about doing a paper round to while away your hours? wink

9 Aug 2009

Quote by kentswingers777
Both of the issues.
The fact a Mother can give away a child she has carried for nine months, would not sit well with most Mothers.
And you base this on what??...this is an assumption based on your opinion and only your opinion.
The second Is I believe that this kind of thing is NOT the norm and therefore the child will suffer, from all walks of life.
What is not the norm...surragacy or both sex parents...again this is your assumption based on little or no facts at all...
Forget about the Mother for a moment and think about the child and the level of abuse he will suffer both as a child and as an adult.
Level of abuse from who...what the same level of abuse that any child would get if say other children found out that their parents were swingers!!!
When you are brought up in exceptional circumstances such as this, surely it will have a detrimental affect on the child when older?
Based on what??...if a child is brought up by loving parents regardless of their gender,how this that detrimental,i'm not sorry for saying this Kent...your argument against this is not only bollocks but your selective narrow mindedness is beyond belief...FFS your a married couple that meet up with strangers for sex...is that normal??

Powers.......I do not expect you to ever agree with anything I say, but these are my opinions and the opinions of five different women who I have asked.
They are just normal Mothers who cannot understand a woman giving up her child. So it is not just my opinion.
Ya seem to hate me expressing an opinion for that is what I said somewhere in one of my previous posts. My opinion.....simple as that, or are you one of those lefties that hate free speech?
this doesn't make sense...i thought lefties were all for free speech? dunno

Anyway you keep slagging me or my opinions off matey, for I believe what I write and certainly not you will ever stop me from doing that.
You ever thought about doing a paper round to while away your hours? wink

you know you really are a piece of work...you don't express your opinions,you force them upon others,until you wear them that they just can't be bothered anymore to argue back...your opinions are usually so way off the mark...and as predictable as you are...you always throw in the "are you a lefty" remark... rolleyes

9 Aug 2009

Yawn........yawn....... flipa

10 Aug 2009

Sometimes I wander into these forums and am staggered by the bigotry expressed.
So I shall stagger off.
Oh and well said ladyisaminx.

10 Aug 2009

Quote by kentswingers777
Yawn........yawn.......

oh so predictable! :sleeping:

11 Aug 2009

Quote by Mr-Powers
Both of the issues.
The fact a Mother can give away a child she has carried for nine months, would not sit well with most Mothers.
And you base this on what??...this is an assumption based on your opinion and only your opinion.
The second Is I believe that this kind of thing is NOT the norm and therefore the child will suffer, from all walks of life.
What is not the norm...surragacy or both sex parents...again this is your assumption based on little or no facts at all...
Forget about the Mother for a moment and think about the child and the level of abuse he will suffer both as a child and as an adult.
Level of abuse from who...what the same level of abuse that any child would get if say other children found out that their parents were swingers!!!
When you are brought up in exceptional circumstances such as this, surely it will have a detrimental affect on the child when older?
Based on what??...if a child is brought up by loving parents regardless of their gender,how this that detrimental,i'm not sorry for saying this Kent...your argument against this is not only bollocks but your selective narrow mindedness is beyond belief...FFS your a married couple that meet up with strangers for sex...is that normal??

Powers.......I do not expect you to ever agree with anything I say, but these are my opinions and the opinions of five different women who I have asked.
They are just normal Mothers who cannot understand a woman giving up her child. So it is not just my opinion.
Ya seem to hate me expressing an opinion for that is what I said somewhere in one of my previous posts. My opinion.....simple as that, or are you one of those lefties that hate free speech?
this doesn't make sense...i thought lefties were all for free speech? dunno

Anyway you keep slagging me or my opinions off matey, for I believe what I write and certainly not you will ever stop me from doing that.
You ever thought about doing a paper round to while away your hours? wink

you know you really are a piece of work...you don't express your opinions,you force them upon others,until you wear them that they just can't be bothered anymore to argue back...your opinions are usually so way off the mark...and as predictable as you are...you always throw in the "are you a lefty" remark... rolleyes

The problem is kent I've asked several questions in this post and you dont seems to answer them you just go on about what is the norm, well times are changing, and its about time you moved with ths times and stopped looking through those rose tints glasses and got in the real world.
The main reason this couple will have problems with raising their child is because people will not let them, there will always be people doing a double look when they walk down the street, always the local gossips talking about them behind their backs.
And when the child goes to school he might get teased and guess what he'll be teased by the child of the adults who do the double look in the street and the local gossips.

11 Aug 2009

Quote by soul-girl
Both of the issues.
The fact a Mother can give away a child she has carried for nine months, would not sit well with most Mothers.
And you base this on what??...this is an assumption based on your opinion and only your opinion.
The second Is I believe that this kind of thing is NOT the norm and therefore the child will suffer, from all walks of life.
What is not the norm...surragacy or both sex parents...again this is your assumption based on little or no facts at all...
Forget about the Mother for a moment and think about the child and the level of abuse he will suffer both as a child and as an adult.
Level of abuse from who...what the same level of abuse that any child would get if say other children found out that their parents were swingers!!!
When you are brought up in exceptional circumstances such as this, surely it will have a detrimental affect on the child when older?
Based on what??...if a child is brought up by loving parents regardless of their gender,how this that detrimental,i'm not sorry for saying this Kent...your argument against this is not only bollocks but your selective narrow mindedness is beyond belief...FFS your a married couple that meet up with strangers for sex...is that normal??

Powers.......I do not expect you to ever agree with anything I say, but these are my opinions and the opinions of five different women who I have asked.
They are just normal Mothers who cannot understand a woman giving up her child. So it is not just my opinion.
Ya seem to hate me expressing an opinion for that is what I said somewhere in one of my previous posts. My opinion.....simple as that, or are you one of those lefties that hate free speech?
this doesn't make sense...i thought lefties were all for free speech? dunno

Anyway you keep slagging me or my opinions off matey, for I believe what I write and certainly not you will ever stop me from doing that.
You ever thought about doing a paper round to while away your hours? wink

you know you really are a piece of work...you don't express your opinions,you force them upon others,until you wear them that they just can't be bothered anymore to argue back...your opinions are usually so way off the mark...and as predictable as you are...you always throw in the "are you a lefty" remark... rolleyes

The problem is kent I've asked several questions in this post and you dont seems to answer them you just go on about what is the norm, well times are changing, and its about time you moved with ths times and stopped looking through those rose tints glasses and got in the real world.
The main reason this couple will have problems with raising their child is because people will not let them, there will always be people doing a double look when they walk down the street, always the local gossips talking about them behind their backs.
And when the child goes to school he might get teased and guess what he'll be teased by the child of the adults who do the double look in the street and the local gossips.
I must be missing something here.... I have gone back over every post you have written, and I have replied to you every time. Or do you want a more in depth answer? surprised

Maybe times are a changing as you put it, but not always for the better in my opinion.

11 Aug 2009

Quote by soul-girl
If my brother found that he couldn't have children and I was in a position to help then I'd help him regardless of his sexuality and who his partner was.

Whilst I agree that the artical focused mainly on their sexuality, will the child not grow up in an enviroment that is not the norm?
If that was to be the case, will the child be ridiculed because of it, and will that child be unhappy because of that?
How far are people allowed to take the IVF or the surrogate issues?
I think these issues should be looked at very carefully, and think of the childs best interests, and not the adults making the decisions.
I dont see what the problem is with 2 "gay men" having a child together. It shouldnt matter if it was a single gay female, single gay male, gay couple or straight couple having the baby through IVF or surrogate person.
A few years back I remember seeing a program about a single straight male who had gone down the path of having 2 children by surrogate mothers as he said he'd never found the right woman to have a child with. Would you say that is wrong?
These days I dont think there is a normal environment to bring a child up in, but most importantly the fact that the child is obviously very wanted, cared for and loved far outways the issues of the parents sexuality.
Maybe that is where society has gone wrong then?
When a child does not know what the " norm " is, what have they got to judge anything by?
Normal to a lot of people would be for a couple to have a child together, and raise it together. A married couple where a child is created by love for each other, and not to be given away like an old times have changed, but not always for the better.
I could never understand how a Mother can conceive a child and carry it for nine months, and then give it away. No matter who they are giving it too.
So are you saying that anyone who gets pregnant and gives a child away for whatever reason its wrong. So a 14 year old girl and doesnt tell anyone until its too late has the child adopted is that wrong?
Is the couple who spend Â£30k on IVF treament and still doesnt get pregnant and finds a surrogate mom to have the IVF treament for them using their eggs/sperm, is that wrong?The way you have put across your comments appears that you donts approve of gay/lesbian relationships why should they now have the option of having children?
theres a few above I think rolleyes

11 Aug 2009

" So are you saying that anyone who gets pregnant and gives a child away for whatever reason its wrong. So a 14 year old girl and doesnt tell anyone until its too late has the child adopted is that wrong "?
There are a few reasons where it may not be wrong, and you have mentioned the thing which could be a good example above.
"Is the couple who spend Â£30k on IVF treament and still doesnt get pregnant and finds a surrogate mom to have the IVF treament for them using their eggs/sperm, is that wrong"?
No that is not wrong either. IF a couple cannot for medical reasons have children naturally, then of course your above reason would be a valid reason.
Is that ok for you? wink

11 Aug 2009

Yay! Must be my turn to have all those ignored points addressed. Can't wait.

11 Aug 2009

Quote by Witchy
Yay! Must be my turn to have all those ignored points addressed. Can't wait.

Come on then Witchy....fire away....I am all ears.

11 Aug 2009

Here's some you ignored earlier:

Quote by Witchy
Kent, you're a swinger arguing the case for the "norm."
Somewhere in Cyberwebspace there's a forum, and people are typing stuff like this:
"...as for those wife swapping sorts, bloody perverts! What about their kids? Can you imagine the damage it does to them not being bought up in a normal environment?"
Before you vote for Norman Normal- think carefully. If he gets into power, he may well outlaw you.

I fully agree that what we do is not the " norm " to a lot of people.
The difference is that I really do not give give a seconds toss about what people think of me or more importantly, what I do in private.
I am not interfering with anybodys life, I am not possibly damaging anyones life, or any childrens lives.
Of course my kids would not understand how we either fuck other people, or guys come here to fuck mrs777. But hey if they found out then it is up to us what we do. The same obviously could be said about the child in this case.
Of all the people that I know who have spoken about this case, they think bringing a child up in a gay relationship, will not benefit the child in any way. They have also said that a child thinking this is the " norm " is also not right.
As I have stated for myself I am in two minds because I can see negatives as well as positives.
I do not think though that comparing what I do in the swinging scene, can in any way be compared to this story, that to me is a strange comparrison.
Can you not expand the logic?
I, and other forumites fought a 4/5 day long running battle on a thread in 'nillaville recently with a bunch of people- one in particular likened swinging to Paedophillia- who considered "us" to be lesser people, lesser parents, and lesser partners.
This is simply another side to the same coin.
Consider this, your kids are still at school- and your nocturnal activities get found out by the local busybody. It gets out. It spreads around the school like wildfire. Your kids are ostracised. Suddenly, the sleepover is off. They're bullied. The party invitation is withdrawn...their lives are hell.
Whats to blame? Your sexual choices, surely? Or the small mindedness of the people and their reactions?
With gay people- they haven't even chosen to be gay. They just are. Are they lesser people for it? Less able to parent?
Mother nature intended than the product of M + F = B. Mother nature also made gays. I'd prefer, as it happens, that Fred & Bob took on a child from within the care system- but I'd also prefer Arthur & Sally to do that too.
You can't say in one breath that you're not homophobic- but deny two gay people the right to procreate with "help" that you'd give to straight people.
I have gay friends who'd make fab dads. I have straight friends who would make lousy parents. I have straight friends who'd make fab parents. If they fell into the "fab" category, I'd donate eggs etc to them regardless of gender. My decision would be based on their ability to parent.
Would you advocate people not breeding because they were likely to have kids with ginger hair? Be too tall? Too short?
All of these things are as likely to result in bullying as having gay parents. Extend the logic.
And Splen, it's not me who's wrong my little nest of vipers- you've clearly lost the plot. Not all your friends are gay. wink

12 Aug 2009

Can you not expand the logic?
I, and other forumites fought a 4/5 day long running battle on a thread in 'nillaville recently with a bunch of people- one in particular likened swinging to Paedophillia- who considered "us" to be lesser people, lesser parents, and lesser partners.
I think to say swinging is likened to paedophillia is a strange one indeed, and one I think is a comment of a mad person.
This is simply another side to the same coin.
Yes it is but on a slightly stranger scale
Consider this, your kids are still at school- and your nocturnal activities get found out by the local busybody. It gets out. It spreads around the school like wildfire. Your kids are ostracised. Suddenly, the sleepover is off. They're bullied. The party invitation is withdrawn...their lives are hell.
Whats to blame? Your sexual choices, surely? Or the small mindedness of the people and their reactions?
A bit of everything I think. I do not bother too much about peoples small mindedness or their reactions. Our sexual choices are ours to make, but obviously do not expect others to think it is ok. I do not think that being a swinger will result in sleepover being cancelled, or my kids being sent to Coventry...I may be wrong though but think most people would just wish they were swingers. lol

With gay people- they haven't even chosen to be gay. They just are. Are they lesser people for it? Less able to parent?
I never said they were less able to parent, nor are they lesser peoplebecause of it.
Mother nature intended than the product of M + F = B. Mother nature also made gays. I'd prefer, as it happens, that Fred & Bob took on a child from within the care system- but I'd also prefer Arthur & Sally to do that too.
That's a fair comment
You can't say in one breath that you're not homophobic- but deny two gay people the right to procreate with "help" that you'd give to straight people.
Yes I can. It does not make me or anybody else homophobic just because we do not agree with a child being brought up in a gay relationship. I simply asked will the child suffer because of it? I stand by what I said and I think they will. That may make me homophobioc is some peoples eyes, but I think that if you do not agree that is what people will label me, and so be it.
I have gay friends who'd make fab dads. I have straight friends who would make lousy parents. I have straight friends who'd make fab parents. If they fell into the "fab" category, I'd donate eggs etc to them regardless of gender. My decision would be based on their ability to parent.
I never said about parenting skills, purely that the child will suffer from bullying and horrid comments because of it. How do I know who would make good parents....look at baby P's Mother.
Would you advocate people not breeding because they were likely to have kids with ginger hair? Be too tall? Too short?
That is a silly comment as well you know and one which I will not bother to comment on.
All of these things are as likely to result in bullying as having gay parents. Extend the logic.
Yes they are and on that comment, you obviously class being brought up by gay parents as a possible means for that child to be bullied?
Phew......there were a few there Witchy. wink

Anything else let me know. cool

12 Aug 2009

Omigosh.
Yes, of course being bought up by gay parents is a potential point for bullies to pick up on! As is having ginger hair...or being too short...or too tall. Or having parents who are swingers!
Everything that's ever so slightly different is a potential flash point for bullying. Are you equally as against older parents having kids? Interracial adoptions? If not, why not?
Surely we should be educating the bullies, and ensuring that bullying is clamped down on for whatever reason- be it the wrong shoes, wearing glasses, or gay parents.
Why is being gay the overriding factor in deciding whether people should be able to parent?

12 Aug 2009

Quote by kentswingers777
....I am all ears.

I knew it.........
your a rabbit........... rolleyes

13 Aug 2009

Quote by markz
....I am all ears.

I knew it.........
your a rabbit........... rolleyes

Nerrrrrrrrrrrrrrr............what's up doc?