I could have used many examples of how one bad person can become a thousand or a million. My mistake that I used the first person that came into my head. Silly little ol me.
My goodness how tolerant we have become where some think that because it was only 12 people spouting filth against our boys coming home, think that it is ok to do so. :shock:
Even if it would have been one person it just goes to show what people like that think about this great country of ours. We have to show tolerance...shame others do not show that same tolerance.
Still I am sure that situation will help to pull people from different backgrounds together, help harmony amongst people.....not.
The mere thought that being patriotic is now in 21st century Britain, deemed to be too right wing and to some will label you a racist. Well to those who despise this country so much, then I will happily buy you a one way ticket back to whatever country you think is so much better. But there if you try and have ya free speech you will end up in some prison or worse.
So that's it....
patriotism leads to nationalism and then to fascism.
Oh right.....I see the link now! :P
I understand where you are coming from too Minx but I would answer no to your question. I think anyone can feel proud of their own country at any time...I certainly do ( despite its many shortcomings) but have no time for anyone being nationalistic or jingoistic ( as mentioned by Flower).
I think one of the quotes posted by JTS sums it up perfectly
Patriotism is when love of your own people comes first; nationalism, when hate for people other than your own comes first.
Charles de Gaulle
I pretty much agree with all you say Minxy. I used the General De Gaulle quotation to demonstrate the difference between patriotism and nationalism, it's not how I would define patriotism....the dictionary definition quoted by Kenty "a person who vigorously supports their country and is prepared to defend it" sounds about right to me.
No threat?
There were training camps in Afghanistan as there are in Pakistan.
Training for what?
Training people to commit crimes against the West.
Don't forget I have no hidden agendas here about Afghanistan as if the war continues, mrs 777's son will be there next year.
We ARE at war with them just like we was with the Germans, fighting for the same thing now as we was then.....fighting a people whose aims are to destroy our way of life in the West....believe that or not as it makes no difference to me at all.
Facts are we along with America invaded them for the purpose of stopping them from causing more atrocities against us.
Whether people agree or not they are the hard cold facts.
Minxy let me put the record straight here. I am no lover of the yanks at all, in fact I think they are a pretty loud mouthed bunch, and no way would I ever want to live there. Now I hope I have made my sentiments quite clear on the yanks but that does not detract from the fact I think what they and us are doing is just. I believe that others who were being trained in them camps were and still are intent on bombing us into submission, does nobody ever read the news ? The shoe bomber, the 7/7 bombers, and many more all share the same beliefs as those in Afghanistan .
Whilst they plot to kill us then they are an enemy that needs to be eradicated, until such time that threat no longer exists.
There are comparisons with the two great wars in that our way of life wants to be changed by others through violent means.
I am not bothered if others do not agree with me as the powers to be out there hold the same views as me. I care not about them at all, what I care about is we get the job done and get the fuck out of there with as minimal ammount of lives lost as possible.
Blind patriotism to a country is as stupid and indefensible as blind faith in a religion. I am English through and through - I can trace my paternal side back to William the Conqeror's lot and my maternal side is descended from the Vikings. BUT that doesn not mean I think everything about the UK is wonderful, better than any other country or automatically worth defending in all its aspects.
Think about it - if this country was so perfect, worth fighting for etc - why are we so keen to change things?
But the fact is this country has loads - and I mean LOADS - of great things about it. Take your pick: my faves are the music, the rolling countryside, the glowering mountains and a decent cup of tea among hundreds of others. And it's my home.
Those facts alone mean most people would describe me as 'patriotic' but I would be glad to see many fundamental changes to this country. I would fight to protect my home, I may even kill for it. But if the choice is to die for it or leave - goodbye. My life (and that of my family) is worth a thousand times more than my ability to live in a particular country.
So, no I'm not willing to die for a country. Dulce et decorum it certainly is NOT!
"Dulce et decorum est pro patria mori" is the full line. "How sweet and fitting it is to die for one's country", a jingoistic term but I fully agree with you on your sentiments foxy..........it is better to live with your family than to die for a country or cause.
Dave_Notts
I dont like to keep the thread off topic but Saudi Arabia hasnt been attacked and I believe most of the 9/11 bombers were from there.
And Kent you cant eradicate terrorists or freedom fighters eventually you have to listne to them becuase they arent fighting a good old traditional war with winners and losers.
Well even though this household will possibly go through every emotion in this house, when mrs777's son goes to Afghanistan next year,I still believe we are doing the right thing.
Are people denying now that Al-Qaeda exist? Are people denying they were responsible for 9/11? Are people denying they are not a threat to us? Were they not responsible for the London bombings? They are lurking in this country under a lot of stones, and young BRITISH Muslims are being sucked in to kill us.
A lot of these " freedom fighters " or whatever you want to call them, have trained in Afghanistan and yes in Pakistan, but at least Pakistan has some kind of infrastructure there. Afghanistan is a tin pot medieval hell hole, that our boys are being killed in.
The Afghan people have done us no harm, it is the terrorists they harbour that do.
It matters not to me what people on here or anywhere else says, it is all just opinions and thoughts but....this Government have decided to invade and stamp out this cancer from our they succeed or not I do not know, but doing something is better than doing nothing which a lot on here propose.
I wonder how peoples reactions and thoughts would be IF it was one of their loved ones caught up in the London bombings? I wonder how some would feel IF one of their children had died on that bus, blown to bits by fanatical BRITISH Muslims, supposedly in the name Of Islam. Or were the orders from the very top of Al-Qaeda, directed from the very country that some would have us not go into?
I know what side I am on and it ain't on the side of people who have killed BRITISH civilians, in the most cowardly of ways.
Yes this household will suffer next year with untold worries but...I still would rather our troops be there, fighting an enemy who HATE our way of life.
On that note I am outta here and will not comment any further on this thread. I have made my views very clear and I am PROUD to have someone in this house willing to fight for the right reasons, and he and his mates cannot wait to get out there and kick some Taliban arse....kick it hard boys.
Probably because Pakistan is for now an important ally of the West and is heavily dependent upon it.
Pakistan is fighting its own war against the Taliban with American help but should it and its nuclear weapons fall fall into Taliban hands, expect to see America take action against it.
By the way, we are not at war with Afghanistan, we are there fighting the Taliban and many Afghanistanis are grateful of that fact.
:lol: 
