When I look back to my teenage days I believe the one thing that lead me to feel independant was having the ability to work at 13 I worked saturdays and sunday morning but I never thought and looking back still dont think I was exploited as it taught me so much.
At 15 I was allowed to work legally by obtaining a work permit to get a proper saturday job as it was known in those days
I really don't understand why the goverment done away with that scheme, I personally feel it made me understand the value of money and be responsible in the work place so aided my independance.
what are others views?
Are we dening our children an aspect of life that could hold them in good stead for adult hood?
Do you see it as exploiting children.
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What teaches children independance?
Things change.
My granddaughter has gone to nursery since she was 6 months old. It may be that others think that is not a good thing, but knowing children that do not go and others that do, I notice that the "nursery" children are much better at interacting with other children than those who were brought-up at home. A limited sample, but interesting.
Note: NOT a childminder but a well-organised nursery school with a "curriculum", based in an NHS trust site.
As for work-related education: It did me no harm (my insanity is a result of interacting with parents)
It is worth noting that children over 14 can do work, and some from 13. It depends on the work.
You should also note that many places will not employ children (under 16...and some cases 18) because of the requirement for enhanced-level crb checks for those working with children or vulnerable adults.
My granddaughter has gone to nursery since she was 6 months old. It may be that others think that is not a good thing, but knowing children that do not go and others that do, I notice that the "nursery" children are much better at interacting with other children than those who were brought-up at home. A limited sample, but interesting.
Note: NOT a childminder but a well-organised nursery school with a "curriculum", based in an NHS trust site.
As for work-related education: It did me no harm (my insanity is a result of interacting with parents)
It is worth noting that children over 14 can do work, and some from 13. It depends on the work.
You should also note that many places will not employ children (under 16...and some cases 18) because of the requirement for enhanced-level crb checks for those working with children or vulnerable adults.
Quote by Witchy
Not quite sure I'm with you Minxy- the permits may have gone, but Teens can still work
They cannot work in a shop until they are 16, for health and safety reasons.
When mrs777's boy left school last year at 16 the likes of Sainsburys and Tescos would not even think about employing him until he was 16 and three months...a strange one.
I agree with Minxy on this one. When I was 14 I worked Saturdays in a local motorbike shop. It earned me money and I learned a bit as well.
Mrs777's Daughter does a local once a week paper round but that is all she is allowed to do. No shop will take her on until she reaches 16.
Employers would but health and safety bollox means they cannot.
So on this occasion I def agree with Minxy 100%
They can work in a shop under 16.
I'm pretty sure the employer has to do a risk assessment relative to the under-16 employee and reveal it to the parents/guardian/s of the child....and there may be local authority restrictions as well.
Not to mention the crb check which many small employers will not even consider because of cost. And larger employers will not consider because of the cost of relative to the rest of their employees.
I'm pretty sure the employer has to do a risk assessment relative to the under-16 employee and reveal it to the parents/guardian/s of the child....and there may be local authority restrictions as well.
Not to mention the crb check which many small employers will not even consider because of cost. And larger employers will not consider because of the cost of relative to the rest of their employees.
Sex God
i remember delivering newspapers from the age of 12 and am pretty sure that this age is still allowed as long as they have parental consent
Sex God
Independance came from (but not limited to)
walking/cycling to school every day
playing out (cos game consoles didnt exist)
reading books (cos it was the best entertainment available)
team sports at school
paper/milk rounds from 12 yrs old
walking/cycling to school every day
playing out (cos game consoles didnt exist)
reading books (cos it was the best entertainment available)
team sports at school
paper/milk rounds from 12 yrs old
Sex God
Dare I say that it should possibly be the parents that teach a child to be independent?
Sex God
Hours of work
If you are aged 13 to 15 you can only work:
2 hours per school day, of which only 1 hour can be before school
between 7am and 8am or and 7pm weekdays
5 hours on a Saturday
a total of 25 hours a week
If you are aged 15 to 18 you can only work:
8 hours on a Saturday
35 hours a week
between 7am and 7pm
taken from a local authority web site
If you are aged 13 to 15 you can only work:
2 hours per school day, of which only 1 hour can be before school
between 7am and 8am or and 7pm weekdays
5 hours on a Saturday
a total of 25 hours a week
If you are aged 15 to 18 you can only work:
8 hours on a Saturday
35 hours a week
between 7am and 7pm
taken from a local authority web site
Workers under 16: the rules
Under the Children and Young Persons Act no child under 13 may be employed.
There is an exception for certain types of performance, such as acting, where a part can only be undertaken by a child of that age. Working hours are strictly controlled and they must have a permit issued by the Local Authority, normally the education welfare service.
Strict rules govern the employment of school-age young people and they must be adhered to, even if you only want to employ them to do a paper round. They will also require a permit from your local authority. Nobody under 16 may be employed in manufacturing or any dangerous activity.
In England and Wales, a young person can leave school on the last Friday in June if they are 16 or will be 16 before the start of the next school year. A child under 16 is defined as one under the minimum school leaving age.
National law
In England, Wales and Scotland young people aged between 13 and the minimum school-leaving age may not do any work, paid or unpaid:
* before or after
* for more than two hours on a school day or Sunday
* before the close of school hours (however, Local Authority bylaws may allow young people to work for one hour before school)
* for more than 12 hours a week during term time
* for more than five hours (13 to 14 year olds) or eight hours (15 to 16 year olds) on Saturdays and during school holidays on weekdays
* for more than 25 hours in total a week - 35 hours if aged 15 or over - during school holidays
* for more than four hours without taking a break of at least one hour
* in any occupations prohibited by local bylaws or other legislation, for example in any industrial setting, pubs, betting shops, or in any work that may be harmful to their health, well-being or education
In addition, young people must have a two-week break from any work during the school holiday in each calendar year. See our guide on hours, rest breaks and the working week.
Quote by Too Hot
Independance came from (but not limited to)
walking/cycling to school every day
Agree - I didn't have a paper round because time did not allow. I went to a school the other side of town (parents thought it was the best school for me). This meant leaving home at each morning and getting home about I got 2 buses there and 2 back each evening. I learnt a great deal at school and a hell of a lot on the journey too .... When we got to the age of having Saturday jobs we were able to get there and back without mom and dad, we were street wise and less dependant on lifts. I loved my journeys to school, I met and talked to so many people, kids from different school but also adults who were on the bus to work, some I still see on that same bus now on my way to work
Sexlightened
Phew ! where do i start ? ; the ability to get out into the countryside, lurchers, ferrets, punk, encouragement to think for yourself and not just follow fashion/peer group etc, hanging out with the local gypsy lads, reading, NOT watching shite on the telly the whole time or drossing around on play stations & computer games - get a real life not a virtual one !
Sex God
a big part for me learning independence was the safety back then allowing me to go places on my own and having a paper round knowing i would be relativity safe. unlike today's society where we watch over our children for far longer in their life's than our parents watched over us. is it truly more dangerous to let a 13 year old deliver a newspaper today than it was in yesteryear or is it that it is more wildly and more nationally reported when something nasty happens to a child in today's world? therefore making us more cautious in letting our children grow more independent
As someone said is teaching independence the job of parents, of course it is, but also I believe in being involved in local community can help too.
I don’t think to have a society we should just make the children feel it is solely the responsibility of the parent, to do this to youth, I believe is wrong. I think we all have a role to play no matter who’s child/.
As it all goes towards building their self esteem and belief in themselves that they are accepted as part of society.
I think children feel accepted in life more when it goes beyond just the responsibility of the parent, and society see them as a worthy part of the bigger picture, and also helps to instil in them what has been taught at home.
There are many areas that help, I was aiming my thoughts on this area, employment.
I honestly do not know anyone U16 in London that works unless it is a paper round.
As 777 most supermarkets have age restrictions of 16+ 3 months, that used to be on your 15th birthday.
It is funny at 16 you can become a mother/ father legally but can’t work in most supermarkets,
No wonder youth of today are so confused at times.
I have always thought is would be safer to be in a supermarket dealing with people, managers, as someone mentioned trust in cash handling than to be wondering around the streets alone early in the morning.
I can not see what a paper round compared to a supermarket employment can teach you.
I don’t think to have a society we should just make the children feel it is solely the responsibility of the parent, to do this to youth, I believe is wrong. I think we all have a role to play no matter who’s child/.
As it all goes towards building their self esteem and belief in themselves that they are accepted as part of society.
I think children feel accepted in life more when it goes beyond just the responsibility of the parent, and society see them as a worthy part of the bigger picture, and also helps to instil in them what has been taught at home.
There are many areas that help, I was aiming my thoughts on this area, employment.
I honestly do not know anyone U16 in London that works unless it is a paper round.
As 777 most supermarkets have age restrictions of 16+ 3 months, that used to be on your 15th birthday.
It is funny at 16 you can become a mother/ father legally but can’t work in most supermarkets,
No wonder youth of today are so confused at times.
I have always thought is would be safer to be in a supermarket dealing with people, managers, as someone mentioned trust in cash handling than to be wondering around the streets alone early in the morning.
I can not see what a paper round compared to a supermarket employment can teach you.
Sex God
minx i think what the paper round did for me was .. time keeping and being responsible for my own money having earned it myself. i also had to give my parents 'rent' of 1/3rd my wages (i found out later she saved it and returned it when i eventually moved into my own flat) i also learned better road safety having to use my bike and also time management (finishing so i could get to school) these are jut a few things off the top of my head
I'd rather be doing a paper round than working in a supermarket...it was job and finish!
I'd rather my kids didn't work,i'd rather they got a decent nights sleep and not waking up at the crack of dawn to do a paper round just so they were fully rested for school(education is more important),I'd rather my kids didn't work at weekends,its the only time we as a family could do anything...they have the rest of their lives to work...i'd rather they just enjoyed life now before that all started....independance can be teached in many ways...i still think it will come naturally,with the guidance of the parents!
I'd rather my kids didn't work,i'd rather they got a decent nights sleep and not waking up at the crack of dawn to do a paper round just so they were fully rested for school(education is more important),I'd rather my kids didn't work at weekends,its the only time we as a family could do anything...they have the rest of their lives to work...i'd rather they just enjoyed life now before that all started....independance can be teached in many ways...i still think it will come naturally,with the guidance of the parents!
Quote by Mr-Powers
I'd rather be doing a paper round than working in a supermarket...it was job and finish!
I'd rather my kids didn't work,i'd rather they got a decent nights sleep and not waking up at the crack of dawn to do a paper round just so they were fully rested for school(education is more important),I'd rather my kids didn't work at weekends,its the only time we as a family could do anything...they have the rest of their lives to work...i'd rather they just enjoyed life now before that all started....independance can be teached in many ways...i still think it will come naturally,with the guidance of the parents!
When I was a kid and my parents had what most parents then did not have....money, I wanted to do a paper round to earn myself some money. I also worked in a newsagents in the evening for a couple of hours. I also had a car cleaning thing going.
Adding all that up I was earning about £25 a week back in 1973. It taught me how to earn my money and to spend it on things I wanted, instead of today where Mummy and Daddy buy them everything, which teaches them nothing.
It never affected my ability to go to school and stay awake unlike today where kids fall asleep in class because that same Mummy and Daddy put a tv and dvd and Playstation in their bedrooms with no set bedtime.
A kid can do a paper round on a weekend without it spoiling any enjoyment the family might do. Blimey I was back in doors by 8 in the morning.
Kids today just say " I want " and they get. That teaches them nothing other than to be selfish and ungrateful.
Quote by kentswingers777
I'd rather be doing a paper round than working in a supermarket...it was job and finish!
I'd rather my kids didn't work,i'd rather they got a decent nights sleep and not waking up at the crack of dawn to do a paper round just so they were fully rested for school(education is more important),I'd rather my kids didn't work at weekends,its the only time we as a family could do anything...they have the rest of their lives to work...i'd rather they just enjoyed life now before that all started....independance can be teached in many ways...i still think it will come naturally,with the guidance of the parents!
When I was a kid and my parents had what most parents then did not have....money, I wanted to do a paper round to earn myself some money. I also worked in a newsagents in the evening for a couple of hours. I also had a car cleaning thing going.
Adding all that up I was earning about £25 a week back in 1973. It taught me how to earn my money and to spend it on things I wanted, instead of today where Mummy and Daddy buy them everything, which teaches them nothing.
It never affected my ability to go to school and stay awake unlike today where kids fall asleep in class because that same Mummy and Daddy put a tv and dvd and Playstation in their bedrooms with no set bedtime.
A kid can do a paper round on a weekend without it spoiling any enjoyment the family might do. Blimey I was back in doors by 8 in the morning.
Kids today just say " I want " and they get. That teaches them nothing other than to be selfish and ungrateful.
Its not 1973 anymore...things change...working class kids are getting University places now...and i don't think it has anything to do with working in a supermarket!
Not all kids get what they want!
It may well not be 1973 and yes things do change....but for the better? I think not in a lot of cases.
What has the year got to do with anything? It is about kids being able to have some independance. A job teaches them about time keeping and there is nothing better than buying something you have worked hard for. Oh yes things have changed on that score, with freeloaders abound.
Yes " working class kids " are now going to University but.....no jobs to come out too. So kids of today would have no job so will rely on their parents, then they go to University for a four of five year jolly up, and then leave and cannot get a job. Ah yes can see how things have changed since 1973. :shock:
In my opinion life for kids is much better. The reason I believe more kids are going to Uni is that there are more kids getting better grades, because the system has made it easier, much easier. Things are much easier now all round with parents having their credit cards to finance them and their kids lifestyle. In 1973 that was not the case. Maybe that is why money was so much tighter then and parents did not have the money to spend 100 quid on a pair of trainers, unlike todays credit card parents.
1973 is relevant to me as it taught me many things about life, that to work taught me some very subtle things....money has to be earned.
What has the year got to do with anything? It is about kids being able to have some independance. A job teaches them about time keeping and there is nothing better than buying something you have worked hard for. Oh yes things have changed on that score, with freeloaders abound.
Yes " working class kids " are now going to University but.....no jobs to come out too. So kids of today would have no job so will rely on their parents, then they go to University for a four of five year jolly up, and then leave and cannot get a job. Ah yes can see how things have changed since 1973. :shock:
In my opinion life for kids is much better. The reason I believe more kids are going to Uni is that there are more kids getting better grades, because the system has made it easier, much easier. Things are much easier now all round with parents having their credit cards to finance them and their kids lifestyle. In 1973 that was not the case. Maybe that is why money was so much tighter then and parents did not have the money to spend 100 quid on a pair of trainers, unlike todays credit card parents.
1973 is relevant to me as it taught me many things about life, that to work taught me some very subtle things....money has to be earned.
Quote by kentswingers777
It may well not be 1973 and yes things do change....but for the better? I think not in a lot of cases.
What has the year got to do with anything? It is about kids being able to have some independance. A job teaches them about time keeping and there is nothing better than buying something you have worked hard for. Oh yes things have changed on that score, with freeloaders abound.
Yes " working class kids " are now going to University but.....no jobs to come out too. So kids of today would have no job so will rely on their parents, then they go to University for a four of five year jolly up, and then leave and cannot get a job. Ah yes can see how things have changed since 1973. :shock:
In my opinion life for kids is much better. The reason I believe more kids are going to Uni is that there are more kids getting better grades, because the system has made it easier, much easier. Things are much easier now all round with parents having their credit cards to finance them and their kids lifestyle. In 1973 that was not the case. Maybe that is why money was so much tighter then and parents did not have the money to spend 100 quid on a pair of trainers, unlike todays credit card parents.
1973 is relevant to me as it taught me many things about life, that to work taught me some very subtle things....money has to be earned.
your generalisation of parents today is so way off the mark...so your the only perfect parent out there you?
and as for the grades...only your narrow mindedness would assume it's because the system has got easier rather than the kids have got brighter...most kids today are far brighter than say 20 years ago
Quote by Mr-Powers
It may well not be 1973 and yes things do change....but for the better? I think not in a lot of cases.
What has the year got to do with anything? It is about kids being able to have some independance. A job teaches them about time keeping and there is nothing better than buying something you have worked hard for. Oh yes things have changed on that score, with freeloaders abound.
Yes " working class kids " are now going to University but.....no jobs to come out too. So kids of today would have no job so will rely on their parents, then they go to University for a four of five year jolly up, and then leave and cannot get a job. Ah yes can see how things have changed since 1973. :shock:
In my opinion life for kids is much better. The reason I believe more kids are going to Uni is that there are more kids getting better grades, because the system has made it easier, much easier. Things are much easier now all round with parents having their credit cards to finance them and their kids lifestyle. In 1973 that was not the case. Maybe that is why money was so much tighter then and parents did not have the money to spend 100 quid on a pair of trainers, unlike todays credit card parents.
1973 is relevant to me as it taught me many things about life, that to work taught me some very subtle things....money has to be earned.
your generalisation of parents today is so way off the mark...so your the only perfect parent out there you?
and as for the grades...only your narrow mindedness would assume it because the system has got easier rather than the kids have got brighter...most kids today are far brighter than say 20 years ago
I do have to agree kids are brighter in schooling terms, but teaching is so diverse, brightness does not mean they have a lot of skills, it just means they have more knowledge.
Another skill to develope is life skills Schooling isn't the best place to learn these.
It is about balance and not just think one way is the best way, to gather knowledge and understanding in many forms must be better that just directing it in one direction.
It is ok to keep gaining knowledge it is then what you do with that knowledge gained how you apply it which is the key factor.
Quote by Mr-Powers
most kids today are far brighter than say 20 years ago
Sorry but that's just not true....and working class kids have being going to university for years. I went to a Grammar school in the 60s and 70s that was full of working class kids and many went to University.
I also think that you will find that there are many that agree that there has been a "dumbing down" in exams.
Quote by Max777
most kids today are far brighter than say 20 years ago
Sorry but that's just not true....and working class kids have being going to university for years. I went to a Grammar school in the 60s and 70s that was full of working class kids and many went to University.
I also think that you will find that there are many that agree that there has been a "dumbing down" in exams.
you base that on what?
really,have you ever sat one of these exams?
Quote by Mr-Powers
most kids today are far brighter than say 20 years ago
Sorry but that's just not true....and working class kids have being going to university for years. I went to a Grammar school in the 60s and 70s that was full of working class kids and many went to University.
I also think that you will find that there are many that agree that there has been a "dumbing down" in exams.
you base that on what?
really,have you ever sat one of these exams?
Nowadays unlike years ago year 10 pupils can take GCSE exams a year earlier. If they fail they can take them again at the right time. So they get two bites at the same apple.
I wonder how my grades I would have turned out IF I could have taken them twice?
A typical exam question from a paper from 2007....." what do you look through the stars with ....a microscope or a telescope "? That was a science exam. Or.....in a biology exam " do humans sweat through the lungs or the skin "?
They were GCSE exam questions fgs. Plus being able to take exams twice, and your seriously saying it is not easier? :shock: You don't work for the education dept....do you?
Quote by Mr-Powers
most kids today are far brighter than say 20 years ago
Sorry but that's just not true....and working class kids have being going to university for years. I went to a Grammar school in the 60s and 70s that was full of working class kids and many went to University.
I also think that you will find that there are many that agree that there has been a "dumbing down" in exams.
you base that on what?
really,have you ever sat one of these exams?
What do you base your claims on?
I have a teenage daughter so have seen some of these exams and they are completely different to the O and A levels that I sat. Course work and multiple choice questions are now involved. I was around when C.S.E s were first introduced. They were a lower grade exam than G.C.E O level and although a grade 1 was classed as an O level pass, the exams were much easier than the I can speak from personal experience on that.
The exams were later merged to form
You may call it heresay but my best mate is a deputy head teacher who went to school with me and he is the first to say that exams have been dumbed down. I guess after 30 odd years working in education he must have some idea as to what he is talking about.
Quote by benrums0n
I TRY to encourage my two teens to be independent by allowing them to make their own decisions, make their own mistakes and make their own successes without interference from me. Its quite difficult to back off and let them learn but I do my best.
You know what Ben.........I'm in total agreement with you !!
Sex God
Based on my own experiences I think that education has been seriously dumbed down. This is based on my own education and visits to two different High schools in recent years in respect of my children.
Homework - Teaches self discipline and organisation. I was scared not to do it, today there is no fear involved in not doing homework. I questioned this with a form tutor who told me that she does not set homework for her subject (maths) 'as such' but tells the puplis to spend twenty minutes each night reviewing the days lesson.
GCSE / O Level - No comparison. Having read mock papers I could do a GCSE paper today and get a pass. In English - no need now to understand Shakespeare, Browning, Wordsworth or any other classic author. I can still remember today, from more than 30 years ago, classic quotations and extracts from Robert Brownings modern (sic) poems, Romeo & Juliet, Twelfth night and Wuthering Heights. Kids these days rarely, if ever, read anything let alone the classics.
Languages - We left school speaking French or German and in some cases Latin as well to a reasonable standard - most uncommon these days.
History - I know very few (in fact none) 15 or sixteen year olds who have a grasp of modern history. Accepted that we all had choices and my choice was modern history. It does seem bizarre that these days children do not know about Arch Duke Ferdinand and the causes of WW1, not to mention Hitlers efect on modern Europe and the causes and after effects of WW2.
Sport was mandatory and team sports were actively promoted for the social benefit of the kids. These days sports cop out is just too easy and hence lazy, lardy school kids. My step daughter NEVER did a single sports lesson after she turned 13.
I do not believe from my experience that children leave school these days either academically or socially in a better position than when I left school. This is only my opinion and based on my experiences and maybe the points I have mentioned are broad generalisations but I bet I am not ALL wrong.
Homework - Teaches self discipline and organisation. I was scared not to do it, today there is no fear involved in not doing homework. I questioned this with a form tutor who told me that she does not set homework for her subject (maths) 'as such' but tells the puplis to spend twenty minutes each night reviewing the days lesson.
GCSE / O Level - No comparison. Having read mock papers I could do a GCSE paper today and get a pass. In English - no need now to understand Shakespeare, Browning, Wordsworth or any other classic author. I can still remember today, from more than 30 years ago, classic quotations and extracts from Robert Brownings modern (sic) poems, Romeo & Juliet, Twelfth night and Wuthering Heights. Kids these days rarely, if ever, read anything let alone the classics.
Languages - We left school speaking French or German and in some cases Latin as well to a reasonable standard - most uncommon these days.
History - I know very few (in fact none) 15 or sixteen year olds who have a grasp of modern history. Accepted that we all had choices and my choice was modern history. It does seem bizarre that these days children do not know about Arch Duke Ferdinand and the causes of WW1, not to mention Hitlers efect on modern Europe and the causes and after effects of WW2.
Sport was mandatory and team sports were actively promoted for the social benefit of the kids. These days sports cop out is just too easy and hence lazy, lardy school kids. My step daughter NEVER did a single sports lesson after she turned 13.
I do not believe from my experience that children leave school these days either academically or socially in a better position than when I left school. This is only my opinion and based on my experiences and maybe the points I have mentioned are broad generalisations but I bet I am not ALL wrong.
Sex God
Sorry - just realised the serious thread drift..............
But really the type of education did promote independance. I gained a great deal from school as well as my part time job and my bicycle !!
But really the type of education did promote independance. I gained a great deal from school as well as my part time job and my bicycle !!
