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whats wrong with teachers

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Quote by GnV
I used a punch tape computer in the 70s. If you made a typo you had to splice the tape. The computer had a room to itself that no one could go into - you handed your tape into reception and a week later a ream of listing paper came back. I think it had the processing power of a calculator. If you were really clever you could make it print a picture of a nude in ones and zeros.

did that, got the T shirt lol
I think being able to print on T shirts came much later. :lol:
Yeah, silk screen printing :lol:
Had a client in later years very much into that.
Feck me, you'll be talking about tie-dye next. :lol:
Quote by northwest-cpl
I do not think it has been ignored, IMO, from my point of view the problems are often resulting from lack of basics, If those basics are not in place the advanced stuff suffers

And my point would be that many children today can actually do the advanced stuff and many children in yesteryear couldn't do the basics. There are many adults that went through the education system in the glory days that are illiterate and have poor numeracy skills. Adult education is not a new phenomenum.
I agree to a point, I will relate to decorating, for a good end result, good preparation is vital. If the preparation is poor the end result looks OK, until you inspect it closely.
There are still people going through the education system that are illiterate and have poor numeracy skills.
Quote by Bluefish2009
There are still people going through the education system that are illiterate and have poor numeracy skills.

and there is the most valid of points bluefish.
with everything at children and teachers disposal, with the internet etc that kids 20 years ago did not have, surely the kids of today have a far bigger advantage than children of years gone by? YET the figures show that exams have been made easier to bump up government figures. children are still not attaining the basic needs from primary school.
i wonder if this has got anything to do with the teachers now not doing four year degrees? that has been reduced to a three year degree course. i wonder.:notes:
Quote by northwest-cpl
feck me, you'll be talking about tie-dye next. lol

soooo cool
Quote by starlightcouple

There are still people going through the education system that are illiterate and have poor numeracy skills.

and there is the most valid of points bluefish.
with everything at children and teachers disposal, with the internet etc that kids 20 years ago did not have, surely the kids of today have a far bigger advantage than children of years gone by? YET the figures show that exams have been made easier to bump up government figures. children are still not attaining the basic needs from primary school.
i wonder if this has got anything to do with the teachers now not doing four year degrees? that has been reduced to a three year degree course. i wonder.:notes:
You could be right star.
V did a 4 year course teaching course in the 70's which went no where near a Uni degree.
Just because you say it over and over and over again doesnt make it any more true.
Quote by Ben_Minx
Just because you say it over and over and over again doesnt make it any more true.

sorry, say what over and over dunno
Quote by Ben_Minx
Just because you say it over and over and over again doesnt make it any more true.

This applies to all equally :thumbup:
Quote by Ben_Minx
Just because you say it over and over and over again doesnt make it any more true.

i see you failed to make any comment on my links, and the comments made by Ofsted.
if you really cannot see the truth in what Ofsted say, then there is no point you making any further opinionated comments. innocent
I generally ignore your posts.
As someone who comes across adults of all ages and backgrounds, it's interesting to see them struggle to achieve a level 2 qualification in literacy and numeracy - level 2 showing an employer that someone can work to an A - C grade GCSE. Lots of these people have learning differences etc and therefore, quite possibly, have slipped through 'the net' in their early years of education. However, this does not mean that all of them cannot go on to achieving higher levels of qualifications. Sorry, but I don't agree with the blame being placed on teachers - this is not usually the case.
Quote by Ben_Minx
I generally ignore your posts.

is that because you fail to debate with any degree of rationality blink
all you ever have are opinions ben, and then dislike words like fact and substance. well you can of course carry on ignoring my posts and i will continue to blind you with facts that show your opinions to have no substance. :bounce:
Quote by starlightcouple
if you really cannot see the truth in what Ofsted say, then there is no point you making any further opinionated comments. innocent

Of course that is if you accept the validity and judgement of Ofsted in the first place. There are many people I know who don't.
It would be interesting to see real hard stats on the achievement levels of 16 year old today against historical data.
I can only make general observations based on what I see around me and conversations with teachers and young people.
1) It must be a failure of the system that enables primary school children to pass into High School without achieving an overall minimum standard of literacy and numeracy because that is the foundation needed for a High School education.
2) Until not that long ago High School students had Chemistry, Physics and Biology as three subjects and English language and literature as two subjects. Geography and history were mandatory subjects. Students therefore received teaching in all of these subjects. Now Science encompasses the three sciences, English encompasses the two English courses and Geography and History become "optional" gcse subjects. How can that be better today if students are taught less?
3) High school students no longer have targets that are measured against a national standard, but against their own personal target set by the school. This means that a parent can receive the excellent news that their child is performing well and is "on target." Most parents that I know would rather know that their child is doing well against a measurable level rather than an individual one set by a teacher.
4) I have now attended four High School "choices" meeting where parents and children spoke to us parents about gcse choices and I have used those events to talk to teachers and on every occasion I have left feeling in despair that virtually all teachers were comfortable with the general assumption that a gcse "c" was acceptable. How can it be acceptable to infer to a child that average is OK?
Forty years ago school leavers were in competition for jobs in their local area. Twenty years ago the competition was national as local employment became less important and todays school leavers will face competition from the world in the global marketplace. I am not sure that the standards of teaching and measures of achievement are appropriate for this new world - and I have not even touched on languages!
Quote by Too Hot
2) Until not that long ago High School students had Chemistry, Physics and Biology as three subjects and English language and literature as two subjects. Geography and history were mandatory subjects. Students therefore received teaching in all of these subjects. Now Science encompasses the three sciences, English encompasses the two English courses and Geography and History become "optional" gcse subjects. How can that be better today if students are taught less?

Hi... just a point of clarification: English Language and English Literature are, in most secondary schools, still taught as discrete subjects. They are usually bundled together as 'English' on a timetable for purely practical purposes, just as 'Triple Science' is easier to timetable than its separate components. This doesn't affect the teaching however, and pupils are entered for Language and Literature GCSEs separately and are awarded two qualifications.
I live with an English teacher so felt I needed to chip in. lol
Quote by Ben_Minx
Just because you say it over and over and over again doesnt make it any more true.

have you any evidence to the contrary ben to help substain your opinion
Quote by Lizaleanrob
Just because you say it over and over and over again doesnt make it any more true.

have you any evidence to the contrary ben to help substain your opinion
if you read my post above rob you will see my comment.
all well and good for some peeple to blow out there opinions, but then a few get very narked when you ask them to provide any decent proof. dont hold your breath rob i am afraid.
innocent
Quote by Too Hot
1) It must be a failure of the system that enables primary school children to pass into High School without achieving an overall minimum standard of literacy and numeracy because that is the foundation needed for a High School education.

it certainly seems that way. did you know that only 17 teachers have been sacked in the last decade for incompetence? sorry but that is just the biggest joke i have seen in a long time. our local secondary school was a " failing school " with Ofsteds reports slamming many teachers there as incompetent. were any sacked? nope just moved onto another sorry school in another sorry area.
Quote by Too Hot
2) Until not that long ago High School students had Chemistry, Physics and Biology as three subjects and English language and literature as two subjects. Geography and history were mandatory subjects. Students therefore received teaching in all of these subjects. Now Science encompasses the three sciences, English encompasses the two English courses and Geography and History become "optional" gcse subjects. How can that be better today if students are taught less?

there are some who will say that the science subjects are now all gathered together, as with english. i am sorry but putting them all together is just yet another cop out. unfortunatly these subjects have been linked together so as to have other less meaning subjects added to the curriculum. such as citizenship. At GCSE level, only six subjects – English, maths, science, ICT, PE and citizenship – are compulsory and others are taken as options. So they can drop all the science and history and geography. yet some education minister thinks it is a great idea. i wonder if this is also an example of poor standards now?
Quote by Too Hot
3) High school students no longer have targets that are measured against a national standard, but against their own personal target set by the school. This means that a parent can receive the excellent news that their child is performing well and is "on target." Most parents that I know would rather know that their child is doing well against a measurable level rather than an individual one set by a teacher.

agree 100% on this. this though is all down to labours fantastic way of not letting children be seen to be doing badly against johny average. a measurable level of attainment that both teachers and certainly parents can see where there children are. telling a child that they are meeting there own targets which are obviously way below average, is going to be hugely discouraging to that child when they leave school. I always thought that children were supposed to be given targets of where they should be like say level 3 at maths in year 10? does that now not exist?
also who is the person that measures a childs targets in the class? the teacher is who. a possible failing incompetent teacher who decides what target is acceptable to a childs progress. how worrying is that?
Quote by Too Hot
4) I have now attended four High School "choices" meeting where parents and children spoke to us parents about gcse choices and I have used those events to talk to teachers and on every occasion I have left feeling in despair that virtually all teachers were comfortable with the general assumption that a gcse "c" was acceptable. How can it be acceptable to infer to a child that average is OK?

agreed. but then is it also ok to level a d grade as a " pass "?. To an employer will they reely look on a child favourably if they have d grades? to me it is just another example of allowing children to think they are better than in real life they actually are, which means in 2012 they will be in for a huge shock in the real world out there, and i do wonder if this new wave education is in any way to blame for over a million youngsters cast aside on the dole when leaving school?
Quote by Too Hot
Forty years ago school leavers were in competition for jobs in their local area. Twenty years ago the competition was national as local employment became less important and todays school leavers will face competition from the world in the global marketplace. I am not sure that the standards of teaching and measures of achievement are appropriate for this new world - and I have not even touched on languages!

once again agree. i would be reely interested to hear what you do have to say about languages please. :thumbup:
Quote by noladreams

if you really cannot see the truth in what Ofsted say, then there is no point you making any further opinionated comments. innocent

Of course that is if you accept the validity and judgement of Ofsted in the first place. There are many people I know who don't.
I totally agree with this, they have there faults, but they are one of the few ways we can judge schools.
Quote by Lizaleanrob
Just because you say it over and over and over again doesnt make it any more true.

have you any evidence to the contrary ben to help substain your opinion
“That one can convince one’s opponents with printed reasons, I have not believed since the year 1764. It is not for that purpose that I have taken up my pen, but rather merely to annoy them, and to give strength and courage to those on our side, and to make it known to the others that they have not convinced us.” G.C. Lichtenberg wink
Quote by Bluefish2009
Just because you say it over and over and over again doesnt make it any more true.

have you any evidence to the contrary ben to help substain your opinion
"That one can convince one's opponents with printed reasons, I have not believed since the year 1764. It is not for that purpose that I have taken up my pen, but rather merely to annoy them, and to give strength and courage to those on our side, and to make it known to the others that they have not convinced us." G.C. Lichtenberg wink
it reminds me of an argument between mt niece and her 7 year old son blue
when she reasoned with him and showed his statement was incorrect he looked at her and said
"i don't care, it is because i say it is"
strangely i just thought of a certain persons debating ability :wink:
Quote by noladreams
2) Until not that long ago High School students had Chemistry, Physics and Biology as three subjects and English language and literature as two subjects. Geography and history were mandatory subjects. Students therefore received teaching in all of these subjects. Now Science encompasses the three sciences, English encompasses the two English courses and Geography and History become "optional" gcse subjects. How can that be better today if students are taught less?

Hi... just a point of clarification: English Language and English Literature are, in most secondary schools, still taught as discrete subjects. They are usually bundled together as 'English' on a timetable for purely practical purposes, just as 'Triple Science' is easier to timetable than its separate components. This doesn't affect the teaching however, and pupils are entered for Language and Literature GCSEs separately and are awarded two qualifications.
I live with an English teacher so felt I needed to chip in. lol
just out of interest Nola does your other half (if i may call him this )i presume a secondary school teacher, see a less than acceptable level of English amongst a few of his pupils arriving from primary schools
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Quote by emma_hughes
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the most intersting part of this to me was this
And of those who did tell someone about online abuse, just a third (32.2%) said they thought the pupil had been disciplined appropriately and they felt supported.

funny that bullying at schools is one of the biggest problems our schools suffer and there was another post on here about the subject no teachers AFAIK commented
yet schools seem to do little if anything and normally it takes drastic measures to get anything done
my own brothers child was beaten up numerous times as he was leaving school yet the school stated they was unwilling to do anything as it was outside of the school ????
strange when the boots on the other foot
OK back to the OP.
Miriam Gross is a journalist, not a scientist or professional educator. The document referred to in the article isn't a scientific research paper subject to peer review but a pamphlet written by her for the Centre for Policy Studies, which sounds terribly important but is just a right wing pressure group.
OK so does she cite any evidence for her astounding claims?
Well you can read the whole thing here.

Not a single source reference just unabashed claims, the odd anecodote and vague references to other research. If you presented this drivel at graduate level you would get an E.
Oh and btw it isnt a attack on teachers its a rallying cry for the phonics method.
SO rest easy, gawd elpus the country aint goin to the dawgs.
Is this evidence of illiteracy or the Telegrph's agenda?
Quote by Bluefish2009


It is shocking behaviour and no place to hide
well with all the talk of teachers not doing there jobs to a good standard, they now decide to do this.

a national strike and right in the middle of kids exams. charming.
money over education of kids. is it any wonder standards are falling and as usual the kids will be the ones to suffer. so teachers have decided it is a pension over there pupils education, what a disgusting way to behave.
Nothing to do with literacy, or am I misreading?
I'd also argue it's nothing to do with teachers either, given that the articles you've highlighted are about exam boards. dunno
Quote by Bluefish2009