Two high profile cyclists get knocked off their bicycles by motor vehicles on consecutive days.
Is it time to follow the lead set by Holland and Denmark and give cyclists automatic right of way and priority over powered vehicles on all but dual carriageway roads?
Before car drivers come on slagging of cyclists remember two things:
1) 9 out of 10 cyclists are also motorists
2) More cyclists = less powered traffic = less congestion
Yup we need to do summat to stop the carnage on our roads.
"In collisions involving a bicycle and another vehicle, the most common key contributory factor recorded by the police is ‘failed to look properly’ by either the driver or rider, especially at junctions. ‘Failed to look properly’ was attributed to the car driver in 57% of serious collisions and to the cyclist in 43% of serious collisions at junctions." RoSPA
IIRC many of the accidents involving cyclists are the fault of the cyclist - such as squeezing down the side of vehicles where the driver cannot see them and disrespecting traffic lights or no entry signs.
It's not always the motorists fault as sometimes portrayed by the media.
Look at the number of accidents in cyclist road races where no motorised vehicle is any where near!
I have to admit hating cyclists and wish they were completly banned fromm our roads .... on my journey to and from work (5 days each week) i drive along roads which have brilliant good, smooth cycle paths and where do 99.9% of cyclist choose to ride ... the road .. not the extremly good cycle path, why they chose to do that i have no idea unless its to piss off the car drivers, well it certainly works with me ! 99.9% of cyclists i encounter each working day have no lights, they flit from side to side of the road and ignore the cycle path, they turn across the road at whim ... pain in the arse as far as im concerned and i wish they were banned, and i would like back my council tax that has gone into providing them extremly good cycle paths that they never use ! These cyclist range from uni students to middle aged workers.
Perhaps they should pay a road tax like everyone else....
I think they should pay tax and insurance and take a test same as i have to as a car driver.
Some predictable nonsense replies unfortunately.
Proficiency - 9 out of 10 cyclist are also motorists (they have taken the same test as you)
Tax - As above 9 out 10 already pay tax (I pay tax on two cars and three motorcycles but I can only use one on the road at any one time - is that right?)
Insurance - There probably is an argument for this.
Banning cyclists - 9 out 10 get back in their cars and congestion increases as a result.
If people were able to think logically about this and enccourage people to get on bikes they could improve their own driving experience. More people on bicycles instead of cars reduces congestion and improves the travel experience.
Unfortunately, the motorists who are not also cyclists and/or motorcyclists seem to get wound up at the manoevrability and freedom that two wheels provides especially as they sail past queues of standing traffic.
On a motorcycle I have had car drivers open their door to try to stop me filtering or drive close up to a bollard to also stop me? Why? It is perfectly legal and if I were in the car instead of the bike - the queue would be even longer.
On a bicycle I will always get off at a red light crossroad, nip over the other road pushing and get back on. Because I can. I can push my bicycle if I want, park it for free, it keeps me fit and it makes your car journey better because I am not in my car.
Look at the driving experiences in Holland and Denmark now that cyclist are given priority on most suburban roads - less vehicular traffic because cyclists feel safer and a better driving experience for those who have to travel by car.
Here is the thing - if you had the choice of taking a more positive view to cycling and cyclists to encourage people out of their cars, or, paying a congestion charge to force people out of their cars - which would you choose?
Take off the tribal headgear and think the issue through.
Sorry but Cyclists already have the right of way regardless if it is given to them by law or not.
Every time I drive in central London they just take it and i am left with no other choice than avoid collision and get of of their way.
Also it is just priceless how on every single traffic light they line up ACROSS the road in parallel instead of on the side of the road one behind the other. This effectively creates a roadblock that you have to wait for about 1 minute until everybody gets up to speed and falls back to the left in his place. Why do they do this they cannot accelerate faster than a car from standing position so what is the point in lining in parallel? The only thing that comes to mind is that they do not care and deem themselves to own the traffic.
Which is true in my experience. It does seem that they are the demigods of the road! I was rear ended by a bicycle a couple of months ago due the the person trying to use "his freedom of movement" to get around me while i was STATIONARY miscalculated and hit me dead in the rear bumper. Well there goes 120 Pounds and 3 points on my driving license for CAUSING a collision, I wasn't even given the benefit of the doubt and he sure as hell did not admit what he did. Oh and the insurance company now loves me as my premium went to 1500 again.
So i am sorry if i have no compassion and still have my tribal headgear on.
You give Holland and Denmark as example i have driven there and the culture of the cyclists there has nothing to do with the arrogance we have on our roads.
I would love to have them banned but i have to agree that this will create more problems than it will solve. But something has to be done regarding the de facto treatment of motorists as guilty until proven otherwise when incidents happen. Also there has to be a way to penalize irresponsible and reckless cyclists.
My reply may have been "preditable nonsense" but its based on my experiences every working day. I think cyclists should take a test based on their ability cycling on roads and cycle paths, same as i have taken a test based on my driving. They should pay a road tax on their bike same as i do on my car and they should have insurance same as i do. I dont often sit in congestion on my way to work but i always have to dodge dangerous cyclists. I wish they were banned but if not then i wish they stuck to the very good cycle paths on the route.
As an aside of course what about making cyclists take a kind of test to use a cycle on our very dangerous roads?
Plus can anyone of us imagine the nightmare scenarios that happens daily where a cyclist is the root cause of a collision where damage is done to a car. How does the car driver on third party insurance get their car repaired? As the cyclist has NO insurance the only way for the poor motorist is to take out a private prosecution against the cyclist. Has anyone got any idea not only the cost but the difficulty in actually getting any money out of the cyclist?
They want to use the roads then fine, but contribute in either getting lawful insurance that protects not only themselves but other road users, and get some bloody training on how to actually ride the bloody cycles in the first place. If that was put in place then I would have no objection to them using the roads. Oh and any cyclists that ride two abreast should have the Jeremy Clarkson approach applied.........taken out and shot in front of their families. :bounce:
"Sooner or later, cars will drive themselves and the problem will be moot. But until then, if you drive, assume you're an idiot, barely capable of the task you've set yourself and drive accordingly. Drive like you're drunk and there's a police-car behind you. And if you're not a motorist, forgive them, for they know not what they do."
Is not the truth that there are bad car drivers....and good car drivers....and there are bad cyclists and good cyclists !!
We have all seen aggressive car drivers...we have all seen them smoking or on the phone in their car, or turned round to shout at the kids, and not looking ahead.
Equally I saw someone on a motorbike other week, driving with one hand and texting on phone with the other !! I see cyclists that like to think they are Bradley wiggins and so have head down, and peddling like merry hell, and it is quite obvious that they are not looking ahead.
I actually think there should be a test for cyclists, but also believe that car drivers should have to attend a refresher course for driving say every 5 years. Have a test at the end....if you fail, I wouldn't take license away , but make them attend again. If they fail 3 times in a row, they they would be forced to re-take their main driving license test.
Anyone useing a moving vehicle be it on one, two, four or more wheels should take care and keep observant at all times.....quite simple really.
Fair points well made Dean.
No I did not let him disappear. I had to threaten him to stay and wait for the police since there was damage on the car ( miniscule but still there).
After the police got on site he said that i had braked without warning and he had no time/way to evade me.
The police took my side of the story than his side of the story and from there it went downhill. Due to his front tyre being busted and me being a motorist, which apparently makes me guilty by default, and no way to prove my innocence i got canned and he was given a badge for his heroic survival of the incident that the aggressive driver had caused.
I was fined for driving without due diligence and causing a collision or something along those lines i was too furious to pay attention.
So i swallowed the pill paid what i had to pay and hoped that he is not going to press civil charges for causing him harm and distress because the police made sure that we are both aware that he can do that as well if he felt like it.
After several months trying to figure a way if i can fight that and take it back pretty much any legal assistance i looked to for information told me that i had no chance whatever i did.
No witnesses has come forward it is my word against his and by default the motorist in most cases and judges will be presumed guilty.
And to answer your question "How could he not admit" well quite easy apparently. Relying on human good will in this day and age i have found is a myth. So i was not surprised at all at his behavior.
Too Hot i am NOT talking about cases where the big cycle safety block is present i am perfectly fine with those cases but it seems that those blocks makes them believe that ANY traffic light anywhere is the same, and some of them are NOT!
To be honest no i have not climbed on a bicycle in about 10 years maybe more. But i have spent more than 120 k miles on the UK roads (mostly city driving) over the past 18 months and i have seen much more rage by cyclists than cars.
Cars and motorists give way, are careful most of the times and respect other cars. Cyclists do not give way, actively take it away when they can because they know that a car will do anything it can to avoid collision. Also they swear and generally behave as if the road is their own property running in the family for years and you as motorist are allowed to be on it because of their good will.
And finally i have to disagree my hope in Darwin doing his job on that guy is jut a hope while if i run a red light there is a 100 % guarantee that tomorrow i will have a post card from DVLA so will any other motorist driving in the city. While our good demi gods of the road can do whatever they whimsy.
Good points Too, that book I linked up there ^^^ is a great analysis of why folk feel how they do.
Too Hot,
For all i know you might be right and cares might be phased out.
But while that is not yet the reality I still would like to drive in my tin can in peace and safety.
About best modes of transport i agree i also leave the car sometimes outside of cities and use public transport to travel inside but that is not always feasible practical for various reasons.
In your list of rants ... by placing them in rants are you trying to imply that:
Women applying makeup while driving, using mobile phones ( without hands free) while driving and speeding cars is fine according to you ?
White van drivers, school mums and middle lane hoggers i couldn't care less about they do NOT endanger me directly and i have control of what is going on. I can slow down and follow the hogger at safe distance i can spare the extra 15 minutes of traffic caused by a school run mom and white van drivers drive for a living so i am just careful around them.
What i hate is when i have no control over what is happening to me e.g. Someone bumping in me and i take the fall. Also speeding cars etc. etc. These are circumstances that i have no control over and are scary for me.
But if i have to be honest cyclists scare me the most because if i have a collision with another driver we are equal and the truth will come out some time. If i have an accident with cyclist unless there is a camera somewhere i am guilty until proven otherwise because i am in the safer vehicle so it must of been me who hit him right ?
This is hardly fair however you try to spin it !
