See now the undeniable fact about me Starlight is that I have always owned up when I get it wrong, I own up and apologise where most of you proved wrong slink away and leave the thread or switch the subject or attack the other person.
You yourself are always very quick to get personal with your insults to posters on this forum, me I am not insecure, I don't think I am perfect and always right I don't need to do that, I just put my hands up and admit I got it wrong.
I don't think I got this wrong, perhaps some details but I am looking into it and if I fnd I was wrong I will be the first to apoogise.
I am still laughing, because what I said about the SS being made up of many Nationalities is still true and some Irishmen were members of it if as might be found just one or two, the possibility is not comical it is understandable.
Just as understandable as to why people unhappy with communism or stalin rule, would change sides, why the Cossacks changed side, why the British POWs changed side, we certainly gave the Irish reason to support Hitler over the years, that 99.9% did not is a credit to them, I guess they believed better Britain as a neighbour than Hitler as a ruler, especially with his stance on Gypsies and thier anialation.
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World War II
Quote by MidsCouple24
where most of you proved wrong slink away and leave the thread or switch the subject or attack the other person.
Mids that's because the person arguing has such a polarised view that folks have got better things to do than trying to educate them and it just isn't worth the time and effort putting forward to a cohesive argument.
Quote by MidsCouple24
I am still laughing, because what I said about the SS being made up of many Nationalities is still true and some Irishmen were members of it if as might be found just one or two, the possibility is not comical it is understandable.
You wrote that "SS Battalions from Ireland" I said comical and still stand by my statement. The addition of a few Irish did not swell the ranks of the SS to be of any further threat than they already were.
and what you say about the Irish SS Battalion appears to be true and I freely admit that, I just find it a shame on here that people dont read the forums to learn or give their knowledge for free, they use them to find mistakes then go on and on about one fact ignoring the threads aim, this thread is no longer about WWII and therefore does not interest me anymore, I hoped when I came back that the forums had changed, that they were no longer the witch hunt place they had turned into, I was wrong.
The forums started to die, the only new topics were the fun topics, 3 word stories and what you think of the person above, serious debate was dying here and I know why. I was wrong to come back another error you can make the weeks discussion topic.
I admitted I could be wrong I can't do more than that.
The forums started to die, the only new topics were the fun topics, 3 word stories and what you think of the person above, serious debate was dying here and I know why. I was wrong to come back another error you can make the weeks discussion topic.
I admitted I could be wrong I can't do more than that.
Quote by MidsCouple24
and what you say about the Irish SS Battalion appears to be true and I freely admit that, I just find it a shame on here that people dont read the forums to learn or give their knowledge for free, they use them to find mistakes then go on and on about one fact ignoring the threads aim, this thread is no longer about WWII and therefore does not interest me anymore, I hoped when I came back that the forums had changed, that they were no longer the witch hunt place they had turned into, I was wrong.
The forums started to die, the only new topics were the fun topics, 3 word stories and what you think of the person above, serious debate was dying here and I know why. I was wrong to come back another error you can make the weeks discussion topic.
I admitted I could be wrong I can't do more than that.
Hi Mids,
I have highlighted two points you raised.
I find it a shame as like you I believe we should be able to have a decent discussion or debate on subjects that interest us on a public forum many here have helped educate me on things I never knew in the past.
I am always happy to give my opinion on things even though I know others will not agree with me. I would also defend my opinions if they are based on personal experiences of what I see.
Mids you don't always have to be right in life seems you and I know that.
So I would ask you not to stop posting as I will run out of peoples posts to read when I come on here to learn something new. Which I then often go off and start researching to learn more about.
Quote by MidsCouple24
I just find it a shame on here that people dont read the forums to learn or give their knowledge for free, they use them to find mistakes then go on and on about one fact ignoring the threads aim, this thread is no longer about WWII and therefore does not interest me anymore, I hoped when I came back that the forums had changed, that they were no longer the witch hunt place they had turned into, I was wrong.
The forums started to die, the only new topics were the fun topics, 3 word stories and what you think of the person above, serious debate was dying here and I know why. I was wrong to come back another error you can make the weeks discussion topic.
I admitted I could be wrong I can't do more than that.
Mids,
The did use their knowledge for free and provided education on misinformation.
I don't see any witch hunt, and if you think I have witch hunted you then sorry but you have very thin skin.
I read your posts, Found some to be enlightening found others to be incorrect in the way i understood thing, especially with legions nay battalions of free Irishman fighting the Allies which is plainly incorrect and wouldn't want others to take away that false information.
Quote by MidsCouple24
See now the undeniable fact about me Starlight is that I have always owned up when I get it wrong, I own up and apologise where most of you proved wrong slink away and leave the thread or switch the subject or attack the other person.
You yourself are always very quick to get personal with your insults to posters on this forum, me I am not insecure, I don't think I am perfect and always right I don't need to do that, I just put my hands up and admit I got it wrong.
Mids I like your posts and I like your views, but even you have to admit that on occasions you get the very basic facts wrong. I am sorry to have pointed the fact out that you got it wrong, but simply put you did.
I do not think I get personnel Mids,why only yesterday another member told me to fuck off on here. I don't take things too much to heart on here as it is all cyber space talk. Keep posting though Mids as I do enjoy reading what you write, especially when you get a tad excited.
I have yet to be convinced I got it so totally wrong, my memory is not what it used to be but I know that I watched something about an Irish involvement on the side of the German army, I will not get to the bottom of it, I am convinced they were not members of the many SS Battalions recruited from foreign nations that I thought they were but there was something.
It is not the personal attacks, the scorn and laughter that upset me, it is the way the forum threads degenerate into personal jibes and point scoring, because the forums should be a place where errors can occur, where we can all learn and give our personal opinions, that is what makes debate such a good thing.
So many people who would like to contribute to the forums are put off doing so by the minority that do this.
I love the forums for what I learn from them, on some things I am passionate, I hope we all are about some subjects, it is a human trait and what that steps us apart from the animal kingdom.
Until I started this topic I thought only a few foreign nationals served in the SS and only those with what some would argue a good reason to support the opposition, I learned it was hundreds of thousands, I learnt that it wasn't the Irish I thought it was.
I used to believe the French capitulated too quickly but after discussion in here I realised that it was the best option for them at that time.
I still believe that without the stance of Britain the Germans would have undoubtedly achieved all of Adolf Hitlers goals and that we could not have beaten Germany alone but gave the rest of the world the time and the base to stop them, that all of Europe and the East would be under German control to this day had it not been for our stance.
As for the reason given that we could do it being because AH did not invade England immediately after taking Dunkirk, they couldn't, not because we could stop them but because they did not have air superiority, because the equipment and supplies needed were not available at the french ports and because AH thought we were finished anyway and had the Russian resources so paramount in his mind with the campaign needing a quick start to avoid the Russian winter and lastly because the English Channel has been throughout our history our greatest defence, timing has to be right.
We will never know however if German control of most of the world (europe, asia, africa, would have been a good thing for many, not the jews, old, mentally disabled, gypsies, homosexuals for sure but for others, it could have been an improvement to what life is now.
It is not the personal attacks, the scorn and laughter that upset me, it is the way the forum threads degenerate into personal jibes and point scoring, because the forums should be a place where errors can occur, where we can all learn and give our personal opinions, that is what makes debate such a good thing.
So many people who would like to contribute to the forums are put off doing so by the minority that do this.
I love the forums for what I learn from them, on some things I am passionate, I hope we all are about some subjects, it is a human trait and what that steps us apart from the animal kingdom.
Until I started this topic I thought only a few foreign nationals served in the SS and only those with what some would argue a good reason to support the opposition, I learned it was hundreds of thousands, I learnt that it wasn't the Irish I thought it was.
I used to believe the French capitulated too quickly but after discussion in here I realised that it was the best option for them at that time.
I still believe that without the stance of Britain the Germans would have undoubtedly achieved all of Adolf Hitlers goals and that we could not have beaten Germany alone but gave the rest of the world the time and the base to stop them, that all of Europe and the East would be under German control to this day had it not been for our stance.
As for the reason given that we could do it being because AH did not invade England immediately after taking Dunkirk, they couldn't, not because we could stop them but because they did not have air superiority, because the equipment and supplies needed were not available at the french ports and because AH thought we were finished anyway and had the Russian resources so paramount in his mind with the campaign needing a quick start to avoid the Russian winter and lastly because the English Channel has been throughout our history our greatest defence, timing has to be right.
We will never know however if German control of most of the world (europe, asia, africa, would have been a good thing for many, not the jews, old, mentally disabled, gypsies, homosexuals for sure but for others, it could have been an improvement to what life is now.
Quote by Andy_Jules
As threatened the thread for World War II, many won't be interested and many will be.
For many it happened yesterday (in their memories) for everyone it affected their lives even those born this week, it shaped the world as it is today, no matter what you think about it, it is probably as important to the world situation today as the discovery of the wheel was.
So what do you think ............
What do I think?
War sux, that's what I think, the mindless killing of the masses usually based on the opinions/actions of the very few often over sometimes ridiculous principles/religious belief/strips of land etc....we were born to raise, not destroy.
On a slightly more controversial note...it's difficult for me to comment on WW11 without seeming as if I'm disrespecting/disregarding the event...I'm doing neither but if I'm brutally honest I'm tired of hearing about it, tired of people bleating on about it simply because as a nation/people we seem to have learned almost nothing from it cos we still think it's OK to poke our noses into other nations business (Irag, Iran, Afghanistan, Syria to name but a very few.
If we cannot learn from the catastrophic events of almost 70 years ago then what chance have we of ever achieving peace today?
Actually, if you read through this thread it's easy to see why there will always be conflict, opinions are made, actions offered, battle lines drawn...yup, we've learned nothing from WW11, not even humility.
The next World War when fought (and it's so obviously coming) will be mainly fought from armchairs, the next war after that will be fought with Bows& Arrows cos civilization will have stepped back an 'age'
Yeah war, it sux.
J
The fifth WW being fought with bows and arrows is an outdated quote based on the once belief that future wars would be fought with nuclear weapons, history has shown us that the nuclear detterent has worked, nations will not use it aggressively but have it there, Russia at the height of the cold war knew that 50% of US missiles were aimed at the USA, the USA knew that 50% of the USSRs missiles were aimed at Russia.
This took away the danger of greed, if the Russians attacked to get the US Oil and grainfields they would be destroyed by the US as soon as they realised they were going to lose and vice versa with Russian assets, does anyone think that if AH had possessed nuclear weapons in his bunker he would not have destroyed as much of the earth as he could when he realised he had lost, but what have used them while winning because they would have destroyed the very things he wanted to have.
Man was born to war, we cannot survive without it, war is fought because of greed and a desire to rule over others ie power, quite often war is fought out of fear, fear of what will happen if you do not defend yourself, greed by some and a desire to prevent the greed or power seeking of others, the human trait to stand up for what we believe to be right.
We are different to mammals, fish birds etc because a human being is never happy with what he has, we walked the earth, we wanted shelter, then we wanted a window in the shelter, we wanted our food hot, we wanted curtains on our window, we wanted wheels to make our tasks easier, we wanted an ox to pull our cart, we wanted an engine to go faster and pull more than a ox.
A cow will graze in a field all it's life if the grazing is adequate.
Our desire to have more, has destroyed so much on this planet, so many have suffered, so many will again, we cannot learn from war except how to do it better and kill more or kill less to achieve our goals.
To think that man can exist without war is naive to say the least.
The things you have around you today are a result of war, many of the medicines, procedures in hospitals, engines in your car, would not have been invented without war, your way of life has been shaped by war since the dawn of man, to have no interest in war is to have no interest in life, because it has affected you and it will again.
Humility, if someone tries to take something that is yours will you defend your right to keep it or will you show humility and let them take it, you may not need to go to war to keep your things, you may use the law and the courts, but once, someone fought and some died to give you that law.
Controversial, no, your just being naive.
Quote by MidsCouple24
Controversial, no, your just being naive.
Do you seriously wonder why some folks jump down your neck when you call someone naive for not wanting war??
Yours is an idiotic viewpoint to say the least. I base my opinion of your viewpoint on your glorification of the mass slaughter of your fellow man to "better" yourself. How very self serving.
I applaud my fellow man who wants to move on from the slaughter!!
Give me peace and I will be a happy man, I never said I support war or want war, I abhore it, but believe it is man and his greed and thirst for more that makes it exist, I am not naive I am a realist, I have never started a war and never would, there is a huge difference between wanting war and recognising why we have it.
Give me a button that would wipe man from the face of the earth and leave it to nature, to the animals and the trees and I would be first in the queue to press it, we are a despicable race unworthy of what we have.
Give me a button that would wipe man from the face of the earth and leave it to nature, to the animals and the trees and I would be first in the queue to press it, we are a despicable race unworthy of what we have.
Quote by starlightcouple
Was this thread a party political broadcast on behalf of Mids and company, or an assessment of WW2's history?
Seems Mids you are not sure what it actually is based on some of your rather silly remarks.
Nope really dont understand this one I merely answered the critics accusations about me be a warmonger
FOUND IT
And I was wrong but not totally, I confused two documentaries with one, having watched the documentary about mixed nationality SS Battalions, I also watched a documentary about Irish plans to invade Northern Ireland with German assistance or more of a German invasion of Northern Ireland, the perfect base for an further invasion of the UK mainland with neutral neighbours (EIRE).
This was the plan of the IRA without the consent or knowledge of the Irish Government.
From Wiki
The IRA fostered links with German intelligence (the Abwehr) and Foreign Ministry, with men such as Francis Stuart travelling to Germany to talk, though these attempts were largely ineffectual due to a combination of Abwehr and Foreign Ministry incompetence and IRA weakness. Germans also came to Ireland, the most notable of whom was Hermann Görtz, who was captured in possession of "Plan Kathleen"- an IRA plan that detailed a German supported invasion of Northern Ireland. (See also: Irish Republican Army – Abwehr collaboration in World War II).
Two IRA men were executed for the murder of two policemen in September 1940, and the IRA became increasingly ineffective in the face of the resolute use of internment, the breaking of hunger strikes, and the application of hanging for capital offences. During 1941, the hope of a German invasion had faded and funding from the United States had been cut off. The IRA leadership were mostly interned within the Curragh Camp, where they were treated increasingly harshly, or on the run. Most internees accepted release on parole. The IRA remained barely active in Northern Ireland, but they were not a threat to the stability of Ireland.
I apologise for my mistake and accept that it was wrong to state that there was an Irish Battalion in the SS orbat.
And I was wrong but not totally, I confused two documentaries with one, having watched the documentary about mixed nationality SS Battalions, I also watched a documentary about Irish plans to invade Northern Ireland with German assistance or more of a German invasion of Northern Ireland, the perfect base for an further invasion of the UK mainland with neutral neighbours (EIRE).
This was the plan of the IRA without the consent or knowledge of the Irish Government.
From Wiki
The IRA fostered links with German intelligence (the Abwehr) and Foreign Ministry, with men such as Francis Stuart travelling to Germany to talk, though these attempts were largely ineffectual due to a combination of Abwehr and Foreign Ministry incompetence and IRA weakness. Germans also came to Ireland, the most notable of whom was Hermann Görtz, who was captured in possession of "Plan Kathleen"- an IRA plan that detailed a German supported invasion of Northern Ireland. (See also: Irish Republican Army – Abwehr collaboration in World War II).
Two IRA men were executed for the murder of two policemen in September 1940, and the IRA became increasingly ineffective in the face of the resolute use of internment, the breaking of hunger strikes, and the application of hanging for capital offences. During 1941, the hope of a German invasion had faded and funding from the United States had been cut off. The IRA leadership were mostly interned within the Curragh Camp, where they were treated increasingly harshly, or on the run. Most internees accepted release on parole. The IRA remained barely active in Northern Ireland, but they were not a threat to the stability of Ireland.
I apologise for my mistake and accept that it was wrong to state that there was an Irish Battalion in the SS orbat.
Quote by MidsCouple24
FOUND IT
And I was wrong but not totally, I confused two documentaries with one, having watched the documentary about mixed nationality SS Battalions, I also watched a documentary about Irish plans to invade Northern Ireland with German assistance or more of a German invasion of Northern Ireland, the perfect base for an further invasion of the UK mainland with neutral neighbours (EIRE).
This was the plan of the IRA without the consent or knowledge of the Irish Government.
From Wiki
The IRA fostered links with German intelligence (the Abwehr) and Foreign Ministry, with men such as Francis Stuart travelling to Germany to talk, though these attempts were largely ineffectual due to a combination of Abwehr and Foreign Ministry incompetence and IRA weakness. Germans also came to Ireland, the most notable of whom was Hermann Görtz, who was captured in possession of "Plan Kathleen"- an IRA plan that detailed a German supported invasion of Northern Ireland. (See also: Irish Republican Army – Abwehr collaboration in World War II).
Two IRA men were executed for the murder of two policemen in September 1940, and the IRA became increasingly ineffective in the face of the resolute use of internment, the breaking of hunger strikes, and the application of hanging for capital offences. During 1941, the hope of a German invasion had faded and funding from the United States had been cut off. The IRA leadership were mostly interned within the Curragh Camp, where they were treated increasingly harshly, or on the run. Most internees accepted release on parole. The IRA remained barely active in Northern Ireland, but they were not a threat to the stability of Ireland.
I apologise for my mistake and accept that it was wrong to state that there was an Irish Battalion in the SS orbat.
excellent, my brethren may rest in piece!
Sex God
Quote by MidsCouple24
And I was wrong but not totally, I confused two documentaries with one, having watched the documentary about mixed nationality SS Battalions, I also watched a documentary about Irish plans to invade Northern Ireland with German assistance or more of a German invasion of Northern Ireland, the perfect base for an further invasion of the UK mainland with neutral neighbours (EIRE).
You are always true to your word mids and admit when you are wrong about something. It's an endearing feature of your posts. What baffles me though, is how you can sit there and say that you weren't totally wrong? You stood by your guns and insisted that the SS directly recruited whole battalions from Ireland, yet the truth of the matter is that you got yourself confused about things. Face facts, you were totally wrong.
Quote by MidsCouple24
I made no such allegation, I stated that an SS battalion of Irish fought for Germany on the Eastern Front, that is undisputable fact, it was you who thought the very idea that the existance of such a Battalion was comical,
Who is laughing now
Given that your 'undisputable fact' , is actually a figment of your own confusion, who is laughing now?
Quote by Trevaunance
And I was wrong but not totally, I confused two documentaries with one, having watched the documentary about mixed nationality SS Battalions, I also watched a documentary about Irish plans to invade Northern Ireland with German assistance or more of a German invasion of Northern Ireland, the perfect base for an further invasion of the UK mainland with neutral neighbours (EIRE).
You are always true to your word mids and admit when you are wrong about something. It's an endearing feature of your posts. What baffles me though, is how you can sit there and say that you weren't totally wrong? What I mean is totally wrong about SS involvement by any Irishman except perahaps any that were possibly in the very small British Contigent but right that I had seen something about Irishmen assisting the GermansYou stood by your guns and insisted that the SS directly recruited whole battalions (a battalion I said battalions referred to all of the foreign battalions) from Ireland, yet the truth of the matter is that you got yourself confused about things. Face facts, you were totally wrong.
Quote by MidsCouple24
I made no such allegation, I stated that an SS battalion of Irish fought for Germany on the Eastern Front, that is undisputable fact, it was you who thought the very idea that the existance of such a Battalion was comical,
Who is laughing now
Given that your 'undisputable fact' , is actually a figment of your own confusion, who is laughing now?
Obviously some are laughing at me, and why not, except perhaps the people who don't need their egos massaging or take pleasure at others expense and will accept that we all make mistakes and some admit to them, some just leave a thread and not post on it again, not saying that is you Trevaunance but certainly applies to some of those laughing
Sex God
Jed, you were wrong. There is no point dressing it up, or muddying the water, you were wrong. There is also no point in saying you were half right, or even close, you were wrong.
It happens, move on.
I'm the same sometimes, especially on business and tax affairs, but I tend to take a different path. Rather than stating a fact and defending it to the last, I openly state I may be talking crap in the first line and wait to be corrected or re-advised by someone that knows more than I.
It happens, move on.
I'm the same sometimes, especially on business and tax affairs, but I tend to take a different path. Rather than stating a fact and defending it to the last, I openly state I may be talking crap in the first line and wait to be corrected or re-advised by someone that knows more than I.
I accept without reservation that I was wrong about the Irish SS Battalion I was simply trying to show how I got confused, had there been no documentary about Irish involvement at all there would be no reason for my mistake and confusion so I wanted to explain about the other documentary.
I dont think anyone could have thought I was trying to defend being wrong when I so obviously was wrong.
Perhaps now we can all get back to the topic of WWII
I dont think anyone could have thought I was trying to defend being wrong when I so obviously was wrong.
Perhaps now we can all get back to the topic of WWII
Sex God
Well you defended it:
Take one of these :giveup: and move on
Quote by MidsCouple24
I was wrong but not totally
Take one of these :giveup: and move on
Quote by MidsCouple24
I accept without reservation that I was wrong about the Irish SS Battalion I was simply trying to show how I got confused, had there been no documentary about Irish involvement at all there would be no reason for my mistake and confusion so I wanted to explain about the other documentary.
I dont think anyone could have thought I was trying to defend being wrong when I so obviously was wrong.
Perhaps now we can all get back to the topic of WWII
So...did the right side win???
Sex God
Quote by Rogue_Trader
I accept without reservation that I was wrong about the Irish SS Battalion I was simply trying to show how I got confused, had there been no documentary about Irish involvement at all there would be no reason for my mistake and confusion so I wanted to explain about the other documentary.
I dont think anyone could have thought I was trying to defend being wrong when I so obviously was wrong.
Perhaps now we can all get back to the topic of WWII
So...did the right side win???
OK, so WW2, if Britain had not declared war on Germany over Poland or arranged a peacedeal after Dunkirk, could we have co-existed with Germany ? Assuming Hitler didn't want a lump of the Empire.
And if we had co-existed with Nazi Germany would Germany have helped us in any war with Japan? IE helped fellow Europeans (were the British classed as Aryan by Hitler?) against Asians?
John
This one has to take us back to the "if's n but's" situation.
Morally speaking we have to believe the right side won.
The plan to murder every Jew, Gypsy, Mentaly disabled, Old person, Homosexual in the world is a very good argument for the moral stance. Who would have been next on the list ?
IF, AH had won, he would have been on the list above, his mental state was deteriorating quickly, he had many enemies within the German Nation, without him his henchman would have been on very shaky ground and probably deposed very easily.
His possible replacements were a little bit nicer, Dernitz who did suceed him for a very short time, Rommel was immensely popular especially with the Wermacht and it's Generals.
So, with a more caring leader, control of Europe, the Soviet Union, Scandanavia, support from South America and the United Kingdom (because to win we did prove he needed us to agree peace terms at the start) allies in Japan who would probably of controlled the far east, USA, Australia, India, Burma etc then it is possible the world could be a better place for many and hell for some.
The question is what would have happened if the USA had been forced to face Japan alone whilst Japan got massive German support instead of the small amount they did get and without having a base in Europe to take on Germany who would have been able to put their full military might against them instead of fighting on 4 fronts.
Morally speaking we have to believe the right side won.
The plan to murder every Jew, Gypsy, Mentaly disabled, Old person, Homosexual in the world is a very good argument for the moral stance. Who would have been next on the list ?
IF, AH had won, he would have been on the list above, his mental state was deteriorating quickly, he had many enemies within the German Nation, without him his henchman would have been on very shaky ground and probably deposed very easily.
His possible replacements were a little bit nicer, Dernitz who did suceed him for a very short time, Rommel was immensely popular especially with the Wermacht and it's Generals.
So, with a more caring leader, control of Europe, the Soviet Union, Scandanavia, support from South America and the United Kingdom (because to win we did prove he needed us to agree peace terms at the start) allies in Japan who would probably of controlled the far east, USA, Australia, India, Burma etc then it is possible the world could be a better place for many and hell for some.
The question is what would have happened if the USA had been forced to face Japan alone whilst Japan got massive German support instead of the small amount they did get and without having a base in Europe to take on Germany who would have been able to put their full military might against them instead of fighting on 4 fronts.
Sex God
Quote by MidsCouple24
This one has to take us back to the "if's n but's" situation.
Morally speaking we have to believe the right side won.
The plan to murder every Jew, Gypsy, Mentaly disabled, Old person, Homosexual in the world is a very good argument for the moral stance. Who would have been next on the list ?
IF, AH had won, he would have been on the list above, his mental state was deteriorating quickly, he had many enemies within the German Nation, without him his henchman would have been on very shaky ground and probably deposed very easily.
His possible replacements were a little bit nicer, Dernitz who did suceed him for a very short time, Rommel was immensely popular especially with the Wermacht and it's Generals.
So, with a more caring leader, control of Europe, the Soviet Union, Scandanavia, support from South America and the United Kingdom (because to win we did prove he needed us to agree peace terms at the start) allies in Japan who would probably of controlled the far east, USA, Australia, India, Burma etc then it is possible the world could be a better place for many and hell for some.
The question is what would have happened if the USA had been forced to face Japan alone whilst Japan got massive German support instead of the small amount they did get and without having a base in Europe to take on Germany who would have been able to put their full military might against them instead of fighting on 4 fronts.
Got to take issue with one point Jed, where did you get knowledge of a plan of Hitler's to murder "old people"? The other groups are well documented as being victims of the Nazi, but never heard of old people outside of the groups mentioned being targeted by the Nazis.
John
From living near to Konigslutter, where many "homes" were set up for German Nationals that did not fit his "plan" mostly for the mental insane as he labelled the mentally disabled but also for aged citizens that had nobody to look after them, these homes are still there to this day and still occupied by the mentally disabled though all the older people sent there have since died.
The sub-humans of the east could be used as slaves but the older sub-humans were of no use to him so after the Jews were done with these were on the list with the Gypsies and Homosexuals.
's_main_goals_and_objectives
And for those who want the simpler copy and paste of extracts from that link
What were Hitler's main goals and objectives?
Answer:
Aldof Hitler wanted to 'exterminate' everyone who didn't fit his perfect model of the arian super-race (tall, fair skin/hair, blue eyes and christian) and he started with the followers of the jewish religion because he blamed them for the death of Jesus Christ. After the Jews Hitler planned to 'exterminate' every one who was crippled, disabled, ugly, of a different race/nationality and generally anyone who didn't fit his model.
The sub-humans of the east could be used as slaves but the older sub-humans were of no use to him so after the Jews were done with these were on the list with the Gypsies and Homosexuals.
's_main_goals_and_objectives
And for those who want the simpler copy and paste of extracts from that link
What were Hitler's main goals and objectives?
Answer:
Aldof Hitler wanted to 'exterminate' everyone who didn't fit his perfect model of the arian super-race (tall, fair skin/hair, blue eyes and christian) and he started with the followers of the jewish religion because he blamed them for the death of Jesus Christ. After the Jews Hitler planned to 'exterminate' every one who was crippled, disabled, ugly, of a different race/nationality and generally anyone who didn't fit his model.
OK, so WW2, if Britain had not declared war on Germany over Poland or arranged a peacedeal after Dunkirk, could we have co-existed with Germany ? Assuming Hitler didn't want a lump of the Empire.
And if we had co-existed with Nazi Germany would Germany have helped us in any war with Japan? IE helped fellow Europeans (were the British classed as Aryan by Hitler?) against Asians?
AH believed we fell within his ideal of the Arian race, our Jews would have been killed off but had we agreed peace terms after Dunkirk I believe we would have co-existed as long as we towed the Reich line in the same way he accepted Italy.
I think that as he was assisting Japan with some supplies and a lot of technology we would have had to end our war with them as part of any agreement we made.
We weren't the prize that France and Russia was, few natural resources at that time, divided by the Channel, with no real desire to own europe and without the rest of the world no threat to Germany especially a Germany that controlled all that they would have.
And if we had co-existed with Nazi Germany would Germany have helped us in any war with Japan? IE helped fellow Europeans (were the British classed as Aryan by Hitler?) against Asians?
AH believed we fell within his ideal of the Arian race, our Jews would have been killed off but had we agreed peace terms after Dunkirk I believe we would have co-existed as long as we towed the Reich line in the same way he accepted Italy.
I think that as he was assisting Japan with some supplies and a lot of technology we would have had to end our war with them as part of any agreement we made.
We weren't the prize that France and Russia was, few natural resources at that time, divided by the Channel, with no real desire to own europe and without the rest of the world no threat to Germany especially a Germany that controlled all that they would have.
Sex God
Quote by MidsCouple24
OK, so WW2, if Britain had not declared war on Germany over Poland or arranged a peacedeal after Dunkirk, could we have co-existed with Germany ? Assuming Hitler didn't want a lump of the Empire.
And if we had co-existed with Nazi Germany would Germany have helped us in any war with Japan? IE helped fellow Europeans (were the British classed as Aryan by Hitler?) against Asians?
AH believed we fell within his ideal of the Arian race, our Jews would have been killed off but had we agreed peace terms after Dunkirk I believe we would have co-existed as long as we towed the Reich line in the same way he accepted Italy.
I think that as he was assisting Japan with some supplies and a lot of technology we would have had to end our war with them as part of any agreement we made.
We weren't the prize that France and Russia was, few natural resources at that time, divided by the Channel, with no real desire to own europe and without the rest of the world no threat to Germany especially a Germany that controlled all that they would have.
As the Japanese did not attack Pearl harbour until Dec 1941, we would not have been at war with them in 1939 or 1940, the dates I suggested that we may have made a pact with Germany. So if Hitler had the British Empire, not as allies as such, but "sleeping partners" for want of a better term, would he not have fought to preserve the British Empire colonies such as Burma from the Japanese who were hardly Aryans and had no real claim to any goodwill from Hitler.
So to go on with this flight of fancy, (nearly typed flight of fanny, where was my mind!) if Hitler did not become an ally of Japan, but Japan still launched its expansionist Pacific attacks, could we have seen the USA, Britain and Germany fighting on the same side against Japan? After all, the USA probably would not have got involved in a war in Europe if Britain was sidelined and Germany had already conqured France ect and was involved in attacking the USSR which was hardly a friend of the USA.
Yes, I admit to an over-active imagination !! But ain't it fun !
John
Sex God
Quote by MidsCouple24
From living near to Konigslutter, where many "homes" were set up for German Nationals that did not fit his "plan" mostly for the mental insane as he labelled the mentally disabled but also for aged citizens that had nobody to look after them, these homes are still there to this day and still occupied by the mentally disabled though all the older people sent there have since died.
The sub-humans of the east could be used as slaves but the older sub-humans were of no use to him so after the Jews were done with these were on the list with the Gypsies and Homosexuals.
's_main_goals_and_objectives
And for those who want the simpler copy and paste of extracts from that link
What were Hitler's main goals and objectives?
Answer:
Aldof Hitler wanted to 'exterminate' everyone who didn't fit his perfect model of the arian super-race (tall, fair skin/hair, blue eyes and christian) and he started with the followers of the jewish religion because he blamed them for the death of Jesus Christ. After the Jews Hitler planned to 'exterminate' every one who was crippled, disabled, ugly, of a different race/nationality and generally anyone who didn't fit his model.
I've never seen any documentories or read anything about a Nazi plan to wipe out the old. I'd believe that if you were old and Polish or Russian or similar defeated people, you may well starve to death due to German indiffernce, but I don't think old people would have been rounded up in the same way as the other groups mentioned were.
The reasons the Hitler used to give about his hatred of the Jews was that they had caused Germany to lose the first world war. International Jewry, financiers and bankers had conspired to defeat the German army of WW1 according to Adolf, not the Allied armies.
In fact a Canadian General of WW1 (forgot who) said that if the Allies accepted the Armistice the Germans will not believe they had been defeated in the field, he wanted to keep chasing the German Army right to Berlin.
John
