There are males and females who have partners who are less sexually active or inclned than themselves for all sorts of reasons. They need the opportunity to both chat about their situation and obviously the opportunity to meet others where they can satisfy their mutual needs. It really is not helpful to have individuals or couples who don't have that sort of a challenge telling them not to cheat , go to Relate or take cold showers etc. Very Victorian approach! Ideally we would all like to be in relationships where we can be fully sexually satisfied. In reality not everyone is so fortunate. I would like to meet single women or women in similar situations who can respect that I have thought about all that this means and am looking for some no strings fun. I know I am not unique but we just need the opportunities without the critics stating the obvious. Blake ( advert 368027 )
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I have to agree with Buster - it's not what I would class as swinging, it's cheating.
It's also not helpful to class those who don't agree with you as Victorian.
I would class us as a liberated couple, and it really isn't our fault that you aren't sexually satisfied with your partner.
However, there are users on this site who will play with married people without their partners consent, so you may get lucky.
Jas
XXX
It's also not helpful to class those who don't agree with you as Victorian.
I would class us as a liberated couple, and it really isn't our fault that you aren't sexually satisfied with your partner.
However, there are users on this site who will play with married people without their partners consent, so you may get lucky.
Jas
XXX
Sex God
Quote by Jas-Tim
I have to agree with Buster - it's not what I would class as swinging, it's cheating.
It's also not helpful to class those who don't agree with you as Victorian.
I would class us as a liberated couple, and it really isn't our fault that you aren't sexually satisfied with your partner.
However, there are users on this site who will play with married people without their partners consent, so you may get lucky.
Jas
XXX
I too agree with Buster - it isn't swinging - no matter how you try to use long ways to word your LMU ad or convince everyone that it's acceptable. Don't dress it up for our sakes, we all know that it's cheating. Oh, and it was me who made the comment about going to Relate - it was in response to a man who asked for advice. That wasn't an unreasonable suggestion.
I do find it somewhat strange that a website that purports to be liberal in its views on sex should so often offer quite straight-laced views on 'cheating' and the like. How do you define proper sexual conduct within a relationship? By what the divorce courts say? By the Bible? By the way in which people have behaved over the centuries? By what your mum told you? You will find that many of these sources contradict each othe, especially when it comes down to the letter of the law in comparison to how those in positions of relative power actually behave.
While many do not want swinging and cheating lumped in the same basket us swingers have to realise that the majority of society does see any extra-marital sex as 'cheating' in some way or other. The fact that some of us are happy to share sexual intimacies with other people within the confines of an otherwise exclusive relationship may seem totally acceptable to us but to others it is the height of anti-social behaviour. How many of us are 'out' as swingers? How many people would find their careers adversely affected if their bosses knew about them being swingers? Probably more than those who were found out to be cheating! So what right, therefore, has any swinger, who is fortunate enough to find themselves in a sexually open relationship, got to chastise someone else who is in the unfortunate position of having a partner who is not as sexually liberal as they (or we) are?
Every person has their own moral code and everyone should live up to their own expectations so if you don't like the idea of cheating and cheaters in general then don't play with them, but keep your views on whether it is ok to yourselves. Think about it this way; would you post something on this site that said gay and lesbian people are immoral? Would you say that someone who is TV or TG is 'wrong'? Would you criticise those into BDSM as depraved? This site doesn't encourage such attitudes being aired so why is it acceptable to criticise someone who is in a relationship with someone who has an incompatable sex drive?
No doubt there are some real a***holes who want to satisfy their own sexual needs and don't give any consideration for the feelings of their partners but why assume everyone who is 'cheating' is like that? Perhaps they love their partner utterly and don't want to hurt them in any way but still feel as if they are unsatisfied sexually. It is not at all helpful or considerate to suggest that such people go to 'Relate', abstain from sex or get a divorce. There is far more to life and relationships than just sex but sex is also highly important and everyone has to balance their lives as best they can in their own way. Who says a sexless relationship is one without love? If the general view is that all 'cheaters' are inconsiderate people is it similarly viewed that all swingers are automatically decent people who treat their partners with total and utter respect? While we might hope that the majority of swingers do fit that profile I don't think anyone is naive enough to think that is actually true for all.
I really wish people would leave the moral judgements behind when they post and simply ignore those whose actions and thoughts they cannot abide.
While many do not want swinging and cheating lumped in the same basket us swingers have to realise that the majority of society does see any extra-marital sex as 'cheating' in some way or other. The fact that some of us are happy to share sexual intimacies with other people within the confines of an otherwise exclusive relationship may seem totally acceptable to us but to others it is the height of anti-social behaviour. How many of us are 'out' as swingers? How many people would find their careers adversely affected if their bosses knew about them being swingers? Probably more than those who were found out to be cheating! So what right, therefore, has any swinger, who is fortunate enough to find themselves in a sexually open relationship, got to chastise someone else who is in the unfortunate position of having a partner who is not as sexually liberal as they (or we) are?
Every person has their own moral code and everyone should live up to their own expectations so if you don't like the idea of cheating and cheaters in general then don't play with them, but keep your views on whether it is ok to yourselves. Think about it this way; would you post something on this site that said gay and lesbian people are immoral? Would you say that someone who is TV or TG is 'wrong'? Would you criticise those into BDSM as depraved? This site doesn't encourage such attitudes being aired so why is it acceptable to criticise someone who is in a relationship with someone who has an incompatable sex drive?
No doubt there are some real a***holes who want to satisfy their own sexual needs and don't give any consideration for the feelings of their partners but why assume everyone who is 'cheating' is like that? Perhaps they love their partner utterly and don't want to hurt them in any way but still feel as if they are unsatisfied sexually. It is not at all helpful or considerate to suggest that such people go to 'Relate', abstain from sex or get a divorce. There is far more to life and relationships than just sex but sex is also highly important and everyone has to balance their lives as best they can in their own way. Who says a sexless relationship is one without love? If the general view is that all 'cheaters' are inconsiderate people is it similarly viewed that all swingers are automatically decent people who treat their partners with total and utter respect? While we might hope that the majority of swingers do fit that profile I don't think anyone is naive enough to think that is actually true for all.
I really wish people would leave the moral judgements behind when they post and simply ignore those whose actions and thoughts they cannot abide.
Quote by freckledbird
I have to agree with Buster - it's not what I would class as swinging, it's cheating.
It's also not helpful to class those who don't agree with you as Victorian.
I would class us as a liberated couple, and it really isn't our fault that you aren't sexually satisfied with your partner.
However, there are users on this site who will play with married people without their partners consent, so you may get lucky.
Jas
XXX
I too agree with Buster - it isn't swinging - no matter how you try to use long ways to word your LMU ad or convince everyone that it's acceptable. Don't dress it up for our sakes, we all know that it's cheating. Oh, and it was me who made the comment about going to Relate - it was in response to a man who asked for advice. That wasn't an unreasonable suggestion.
i though thats what places like relate are for to try and help people thro their problems so they don't have to end up being liars and cheats
its not victorian at all to ask for help, whats victorian is to stick your head in the sand and carry on regarless
theres nothing what so ever modern about cheating on your partner
Quote by donsidelovers
How do you define proper sexual conduct within a relationship? By what the divorce courts say? By the Bible? By the way in which people have behaved over the centuries? By what your mum told you?
i define proper sexual conduct within a relationship one where noone gets hurt, if me and my hubby swing and we are both happy about that thats ok and that goes for any couple, if you have to lie to the person your supposed to love and do something that could and more than likely would hurt them then its not, your partners feeling should come first and putting ur partners feeling aside in a 'what they don't know wont hurt them' manner is wrong, if i swing with a guy who i know is cheating on his wife then i am also cheating on her, and i believe that swinging should be open and fun, theres no fun having sex with someone knowing if their partner found out it could break their world.
I think i'm open minded, i just also care about peoples feeling, there are enough people to swing with who are not cheating to have to bother with those who are.
Quote by naughtynymphos1
How do you define proper sexual conduct within a relationship? By what the divorce courts say? By the Bible? By the way in which people have behaved over the centuries? By what your mum told you?
i define proper sexual conduct within a relationship one where noone gets hurt, if me and my hubby swing and we are both happy about that thats ok and that goes for any couple, if you have to lie to the person your supposed to love and do something that could and more than likely would hurt them then its not, your partners feeling should come first and putting ur partners feeling aside in a 'what they don't know wont hurt them' manner is wrong, if i swing with a guy who i know is cheating on his wife then i am also cheating on her, and i believe that swinging should be open and fun, theres no fun having sex with someone knowing if their partner found out it could break their world.
I think i'm open minded, i just also care about peoples feeling, there are enough people to swing with who are not cheating to have to bother with those who are.
So what would you say about the 'selfish' attitudes of the person who wants to limit their partner's sexual enjoyment then? Why does one person have the right to prevent someone else from achieving sexual happiness? But that is the case in many relationships and while I am fortunate that I have a partner who is as open as I am to sexual exploration I don't feel able to judge someone else for being unfortunate enough to be with someone who is not so open minded. I too habve reservations about playing with people who are cheating but I have reservations about all sorts of people that I might meet in a swinging context and that doesn't make me feel ready to tell them that they are wrong.
People lie all the time in relationships - even if only by omission. Are you honestly able to say that you tell the whole truth to your husband all the time, even if the truth would hurt him? Why is lying about sexual activity viewed as more heinous than any other aspect of a relationship?
I respect your thoughts on not hurting the cheated on partner but how does that allow you to hurt someone else's feelings by telling them they are wrong in their actions? If you don't want to hurt people then don't play and don't offer your opinion on their behaviour - even if they ask for it.
Sex God
Quote by donsidelovers
I do find it somewhat strange that a website that purports to be liberal in its views on sex should so often offer quite straight-laced views on 'cheating' and the like.
I really wish people would leave the moral judgements behind when they post and simply ignore those whose actions and thoughts they cannot abide.
I have selectively quoted you on what I see as the two major points of your post.
So, are you going to lecture Blake for saying we all have a 'Victorian approach'?
In my opinion, his post was worded in a way that would invite criticism. Blake had no need to fancy up his post. He wants to meet females for sex with or without their partners' consent. Why not just post that? I only looked at the post because I remember that the last time he advertised, he said that he was single and wondered whether he'd try it again. Like NN, I think we can be open-minded enough to swing whilst in a relationship, but still care enough about the person who is being cheated on.
Quote by freckledbird
I do find it somewhat strange that a website that purports to be liberal in its views on sex should so often offer quite straight-laced views on 'cheating' and the like.
I really wish people would leave the moral judgements behind when they post and simply ignore those whose actions and thoughts they cannot abide.
I have selectively quoted you on what I see as the two major points of your post.
So, are you going to lecture Blake for saying we all have a 'Victorian approach'?
In my opinion, his post was worded in a way that would invite criticism. Blake had no need to fancy up his post. He wants to meet females for sex with or without their partners' consent. Why not just post that? I only looked at the post because I remember that the last time he advertised, he said that he was single and wondered whether he'd try it again. Like NN, I think we can be open-minded enough to swing whilst in a relationship, but still care enough about the person who is being cheated on.
I am not writing in support of any particular person or situation but in response to a general attitude that seems to be prevalent among certain people who post here (and not singling out anyone in this thread in particular).
Actually, Blake has a pretty good idea when he mentions Victorian attitudes: The Victorian era is viewed as a highly moral and sexually uptight era (by today's standards) but it was also the time when modern pornography was born. The Victorian times could be epitomised by the public maintenance of moral society while the very same people were busy exploring every deviance going in the privacy of their homes. Those of us here who swing are going beyond what our normal society deems to be acceptable yet some of us still want to lecture others on moral behaviour. What that shows is that morals are defined primarily by our own views on the world and therefore it begs the question why does anyone think they are entitled to morally judge anyone else?
Sex God
Oh not again 
Every time Blake45 makes it post, it turns into a debate on cheating :roll: :roll: :roll:
I'm getting very bored with these types of thread, we've had at least two very similar onesrecently.
:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:
Oh yeah, this is the hint for Blake45 to stop making posts about his cheating behaviour, do we really want to know??? :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:
I have my keys in my hand folks.
Every time Blake45 makes it post, it turns into a debate on cheating :roll: :roll: :roll:
I'm getting very bored with these types of thread, we've had at least two very similar onesrecently.
:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:
Oh yeah, this is the hint for Blake45 to stop making posts about his cheating behaviour, do we really want to know??? :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:
I have my keys in my hand folks.
Quote by bluexxx
Oh not again
Every time Blake45 makes it post, it turns into a debate on cheating :roll: :roll: :roll:
I'm getting very bored with these types of thread, we've had at least two very similar onesrecently.
:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:
Oh yeah, this is the hint for Blake45 to stop making posts about his cheating behaviour, do we really want to know??? :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:
I have my keys in my hand folks.
Sorry Blue, if I had realised it had all been said before I wouldn't have bothered!
ahem.....as a newbie to this seen i am concerned by the very illiberal moralising that goes on myself. As the member from Aberdeen says/implied it is counter to the SPIRIT of swinging. Just one more thing; ahem.....it seems some members now think Swinging is there eXclusive domain, hence they nit and pick especially @ the newbies as a matter of habit.......... ahem a wee diezel spill 4 thought. :idea: Sex God
Quote by diezel
Gosh, another 'newbie-bashing' whinge now. It's nobody's exclusive domain - there are well over 25000 members of the site. Every one of those members is entitled to express an opinion. Your post in itself is illiberal, as you're saying that those with morals shouldn't express their thoughts about them. Some newbies think it's their exclusive right to moan at the people who aren't newbies, just for having an opinion.
:idea: Hya FB; a quikie clarification. I am not Bashing anyone. I am not knocking anyone for have morals either. In fact morals/code of conduct in all situations are important; hence CHAOS reigns. I however thought swinging is a step in the direction of sexual liberation(in light of the MOUNTAIN of taboos surrounding the sex/sexuality).
Lets be carefull in nurturing this relationship which for a lot of us is BLISS.
diez :idea:
Lets be carefull in nurturing this relationship which for a lot of us is BLISS.
diez :idea:
Warming the Bed
Interesting thread which finds me sitting on the fence as can see both sides of the argument,I,ve been married 16 years and have in the past probably bemoned the fact at some time that "my wifes sexual needs were on a differant level to mine" whilst always feeling a deep love for her, I admit it i,ve been a "cheat" ,and later been "given a taste of my own medicine",but now we are swinging together as a couple and have never been happier or more solid,yes we,ve been lucky and found after a very long time that sex and" exclusive love" don,t always come wrapped in the same package,and have discovered like many people that sexual jealously is a very bad demon indeed,how many otherwise happy and productive relationships end because someone shags someone else , in maybe nothing more than a " mad" moment"? Swingers should be wary of moralising,"people in glass houses."..etc but that does,nt mean we can,t have them! Anyone shagging behind their partners back is "cheating" rather than "swinging" however they justify it !. As a side issue I think dogging phenomenom ( can,t spell that word? ) has totally changed the face of swinging and the exhibitionists and cples seeking the extra male/s amongst us ( don,t get me wrong ,they make the world go round! lol ) have encouraged more men to cheat but consider themselves swingers than ever before. Real swinging is about sexual liberalism , honesty,and respect for your own patners needs and feelings,f--king around will always be just about f--king around!
Warming the Bed
P.S naughynymphos, donsidelovers,you both write well and interestingly and agree with both of you to some extent,not joined in a " cheating post" before,and find this a very interesting debate,thanks xx
Quote by donsidelovers
I do find it somewhat strange that a website that purports to be liberal in its views on sex should so often offer quite straight-laced views on 'cheating' and the like.
I really wish people would leave the moral judgements behind when they post and simply ignore those whose actions and thoughts they cannot abide.
I have selectively quoted you on what I see as the two major points of your post.
So, are you going to lecture Blake for saying we all have a 'Victorian approach'?
In my opinion, his post was worded in a way that would invite criticism. Blake had no need to fancy up his post. He wants to meet females for sex with or without their partners' consent. Why not just post that? I only looked at the post because I remember that the last time he advertised, he said that he was single and wondered whether he'd try it again. Like NN, I think we can be open-minded enough to swing whilst in a relationship, but still care enough about the person who is being cheated on.
I am not writing in support of any particular person or situation but in response to a general attitude that seems to be prevalent among certain people who post here (and not singling out anyone in this thread in particular).
Actually, Blake has a pretty good idea when he mentions Victorian attitudes: The Victorian era is viewed as a highly moral and sexually uptight era (by today's standards) but it was also the time when modern pornography was born. The Victorian times could be epitomised by the public maintenance of moral society while the very same people were busy exploring every deviance going in the privacy of their homes. Those of us here who swing are going beyond what our normal society deems to be acceptable yet some of us still want to lecture others on moral behaviour. What that shows is that morals are defined primarily by our own views on the world and therefore it begs the question why does anyone think they are entitled to morally judge anyone else?
In a previous post I was criticised for describing myself as single in my profile so I modified everything to make matters clear because as a newbie I did not know what word to use. I have always be open with everyone I have exchanged PMs and Emails with about my situation. This thread was not from my perspective about cheating but about the right of people not to be judged so harshly by some members who had a thing about cheaters. The posts from Donsidelovers said it far better than I did. My reference to Victorrian attitudes was about the double standards. I think this thread opened up the debate on a wider basis this time - lets have openess and lets not judge - it stifles discussion. I am a mature guy of 45 who treats people with respect including my partner who sexual needs are not as great as my own. If I am open about that I am not seeking anyones approval but would prefer not to be condemned either. My thread was about lets respect the fact that some people need extra relationships and should be able to chat about that in the same way that lots of other topics get discussed. Blake
There are, sadly, always people who - because they disapprove of something themselves - want to stop others doing it. And don't see how illiberal such views are. The point about condemning gays and TVs was well made. If we're not a tolerant group, what are we? And how can we judge other people's painfully-built long-term private relationships?
I think perhaps these bluenoses see things purely from their own perspective: they don't want their own partners to cheat, so they think the solution is to stamp out cheating wherever it occurs.
I'm single myself, now, but when I was in a couple looking for guys, we ONLY met married men, because they were less trouble. Single guys, all too often, wanted to muscle in, asking for private meetings, mobile phone numbers, and so on. She even had one real stalker.
Each to his own.
I think perhaps these bluenoses see things purely from their own perspective: they don't want their own partners to cheat, so they think the solution is to stamp out cheating wherever it occurs.
I'm single myself, now, but when I was in a couple looking for guys, we ONLY met married men, because they were less trouble. Single guys, all too often, wanted to muscle in, asking for private meetings, mobile phone numbers, and so on. She even had one real stalker.
Each to his own.
And let us not forget that not all regular SH swingers are as honest as they make out on the forum. I have to side with Blake and Donsidelovers on this one. It's one of the reasons I stopped meeting people off the site. There seems to be a trend to say one thing yet mean another, and the single girl is supposed to figure out the fakes from the genuines. I can't be bothered. I'm a straight-talking, what-you-see-is-what-you-find girl, and I can only take so many lies.
I personally preferred playing with married men, in some ways, only because they couldn't afford to lie to me. Single guys, however, just tell you what they think you want to hear. And we wonder why they're single????
Yes this theme has been done to death but then the forum users do love to jump down the throats of guys who come on here telling it as it is. Would you rather they lied?
If you don't agree with it, don't meet these guys. Meet the singles and couples who claim to be so morally correct and upstanding. They won't mess you around. I bet.
Married men have more respect, in my opinion. Not to their wives, admittedly, but then that isn't my problem. It's not like I want a relationship out of it - just a nice, honest shag will do. I'm pretty certain not all swinging couples have as much respect for each other as they make out. In fact I'm sure of it.
I personally preferred playing with married men, in some ways, only because they couldn't afford to lie to me. Single guys, however, just tell you what they think you want to hear. And we wonder why they're single????
Yes this theme has been done to death but then the forum users do love to jump down the throats of guys who come on here telling it as it is. Would you rather they lied?
If you don't agree with it, don't meet these guys. Meet the singles and couples who claim to be so morally correct and upstanding. They won't mess you around. I bet.
Married men have more respect, in my opinion. Not to their wives, admittedly, but then that isn't my problem. It's not like I want a relationship out of it - just a nice, honest shag will do. I'm pretty certain not all swinging couples have as much respect for each other as they make out. In fact I'm sure of it.
Sex God
Quote by SunBunny
And let us not forget that not all regular SH swingers are as honest as they make out on the forum. I have to side with Blake and Donsidelovers on this one. It's one of the reasons I stopped meeting people off the site. There seems to be a trend to say one thing yet mean another, and the single girl is supposed to figure out the fakes from the genuines. I can't be bothered. I'm a straight-talking, what-you-see-is-what-you-find girl, and I can only take so many lies.
I personally preferred playing with married men, in some ways, only because they couldn't afford to lie to me. Single guys, however, just tell you what they think you want to hear. And we wonder why they're single????
Yes this theme has been done to death but then the forum users do love to jump down the throats of guys who come on here telling it as it is. Would you rather they lied?
If you don't agree with it, don't meet these guys. Meet the singles and couples who claim to be so morally correct and upstanding. They won't mess you around. I bet.
Married men have more respect, in my opinion. Not to their wives, admittedly, but then that isn't my problem. It's not like I want a relationship out of it - just a nice, honest shag will do. I'm pretty certain not all swinging couples have as much respect for each other as they make out. In fact I'm sure of it.
Well done Sunbunny :thumbup: I agree 100% with every word.
H, red.
