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i do agree with you on this, it is because of guys who behave like that, that the majority suffer.
This is not just endemic to swinging tho, it is within the whole of society, people (not just single guys) find the power that they seek in getting others to go along with what they do.
But that is the risk that we all take, there are people that get hurt when attention moves from them to someone else, and at the end of the day fun is why we are here and we must learn when to walk away.
And you are so right about having to learn from mistakes, which sadly looking at many posts some people are unable to do.
Have fun
BBx
P.s. happy new year
This is not just endemic to swinging tho, it is within the whole of society, people (not just single guys) find the power that they seek in getting others to go along with what they do.
But that is the risk that we all take, there are people that get hurt when attention moves from them to someone else, and at the end of the day fun is why we are here and we must learn when to walk away.
And you are so right about having to learn from mistakes, which sadly looking at many posts some people are unable to do.
Have fun
BBx
P.s. happy new year
Sex God
Can I just say that the site seems to have worked for some people in terms of them finding a life partner and even having children, so maybe it's not all about play. I have to agree with you Corrie that the ground rules should be set early on and that nobody should be hurt if all are honest and open.
Hiya Corrie,
Fully agree with you mate - and it is much the same issue as the post PoloLady addressed in 'Can we try something in 2005'.
It is a question of how the individual sees the purpose of the site.
In my view, the site exists as a contact point for those who wish to indulge in recreational sex in an open environment.
There will always be those - male and female - who attempt to abuse the site and use it as a sort of virtual Ibiza strip. A place to have the equivalent of the holiday romance where anything goes and who gives a shit cos nobody knows who you are and you fly home tomorrow. This introduces an element of competition reminiscent of my adolescent days of "How many snogs did you get tonight" and "Who is that bastard chatting up the bird I had my eye on"
I think from the outside there is an illusion that this site was set up as a sexual free-for-all where anything goes. It is not. It is a place for those who wish to take the risk of exploring their sexuality can do so in a safe environment. It has very specific expectations around the attitudes and behaviour of the users of the site.
Swinging is such an ill-defined term. However, I do not believe it defines a sexuality, gender or age. It does define an attitude and behaviour.
lhk
Kat
Fully agree with you mate - and it is much the same issue as the post PoloLady addressed in 'Can we try something in 2005'.
It is a question of how the individual sees the purpose of the site.
In my view, the site exists as a contact point for those who wish to indulge in recreational sex in an open environment.
There will always be those - male and female - who attempt to abuse the site and use it as a sort of virtual Ibiza strip. A place to have the equivalent of the holiday romance where anything goes and who gives a shit cos nobody knows who you are and you fly home tomorrow. This introduces an element of competition reminiscent of my adolescent days of "How many snogs did you get tonight" and "Who is that bastard chatting up the bird I had my eye on"
I think from the outside there is an illusion that this site was set up as a sexual free-for-all where anything goes. It is not. It is a place for those who wish to take the risk of exploring their sexuality can do so in a safe environment. It has very specific expectations around the attitudes and behaviour of the users of the site.
Swinging is such an ill-defined term. However, I do not believe it defines a sexuality, gender or age. It does define an attitude and behaviour.
lhk
Kat
I think in all honesty that the type of thing Corrie is talking about applies to SOME men in general whether it be on swinging heaven or not.
It is also not confined to Single men...............married men and men in "relationships" indulge in this sort of behaviour.
Most men grow up,unfortunately a very small minority let the rest of us down.
It is also not confined to Single men...............married men and men in "relationships" indulge in this sort of behaviour.
Most men grow up,unfortunately a very small minority let the rest of us down.
Quote by corriefem
My thoughts on this are that my understanding of swinging is about playful fun between consenting adults where the ground rules are that there should be no emotional attachment that could hurt any of the people involved. I understand that definition and have always been happy with that. The whole purpose of meeting must be to do that. But that also takes a certain level of maturity, experience, attitude and thought. To get there I am sure many people have made mistakes and in my mind thats acceptable as long as you learn from mistakes and dont repeat them.
There's nothing wrong with your definition of swinging but as many people have said before not everyone on this site is here to swing. People have given many reasons for being here from "enjoying the banter with like minded individuals" to "here to make friendships". It could be that it takes "maturity, experience, attitude and thought" to be able to understand and accept swinging but those that aren't here to swing could easily end up in a situation they can't handle.
Quote by corriefem
There are though I feel some men who may see this site as a place which must seem rather like a sweet shop where women may be a commodity that can be used and replaced with ease.
I think there is far far more opportunity for the females on the site to treat men like a commodity but maybe that's what we are because we're the most abundant resource here. If a female says I want to line ten guys up against a wall and give them all a blow job then she has a chance of getting just what she wants.
Quote by corriefem
What concerns me is the stories of women who have been led to believe that there is an emotional attachment where none was never there. This I find worrying as real people are involved who came here to play and have fun but have been left totally confused by the signals being given.
My observation is that why does that need to happen :shock: .
This to me is the most pertinent paragraph to your concerns. A lot of the singles on the site (both men and women) are not here to swing and are looking for something else. That something else could be anything from getting a quick leg over to finding the perfect soulmate. It's difficult to see how these different objectives can be reconciled without somebody being led down the garden path. The two different types of people concerned could only get together using false promises. This isn't swinging.
Quote by corriefem
I know that there is a real thrill in the chase and meeting lots of new people but surely no one on here really comes on with the true intent of hurting people: Or is that to some part of the thrill in getting someone falling for you then leaving them high and dry.
I don't think anyone actually comes on here with the true intent of hurting anyone but there are probably plenty that wouldn't give a toss if they did. Again though these aren't the swingers, these are the people with a different agenda.
Quote by corriefem
Now I am NOT talking about proper relationships here. God I know that people get hurt all the time - I do not need a reality check on that hahahahaha. I am talking about the sort of etiquette I expect between two consenting adults to ensure that no one gets hurt.
I dont expect that everyone will agree with me posting this thread but I am concerned about how a handful of guys who know who to charm the pants off women (nothing wrong with that) are forgetting that this is not a trophy collecting activity where the person involved does not matter.
I'll quite happily hold my hand up and say that I'm one of the guys that enjoys the thrill of the chase. It's no secret that I'm single and yes if I did meet a future partner on the site then I'd be delighted but until that happens I'm just happy to be invited to be involved.
I've never really thought of collecting trophies, do I need a nkicker drawer? :shock:
Steve
spot on...
im not sure swinging is developed enough in the Uk for everyone to have a full understanding of what it really means and where the boundaries are. its still at the curiousity newsy stage for many...
For me its fun with a nice little connection and no hang ups. Im in a relationship with licenec (can explain sometime)...so i will not abusethat trust and frankly wouldnt want to
im not sure swinging is developed enough in the Uk for everyone to have a full understanding of what it really means and where the boundaries are. its still at the curiousity newsy stage for many...
For me its fun with a nice little connection and no hang ups. Im in a relationship with licenec (can explain sometime)...so i will not abusethat trust and frankly wouldnt want to
Quote by corriefem
What concerns me is the stories of women who have been led to believe that there is an emotional attachment where none was never there. This I find worrying as real people are involved who came here to play and have fun but have been left totally confused by the signals being given.
Human emotions are a difficult subject. Lots of people don't even know what they want. People often don't understand the signals they're giving off, and many people (stereotypically men) have difficulty describing their emotions even when they want to. So you've got people struggling to describe what they think they want, but don't, while giving off signals that say God-knows-what that will probably be mis-understood by the recipient, along with everything else... frankly, I think it's a miracle that there's anyone here at all who isn't insanely pissed off with the whole shebang.
Of course, plenty of people are absolute bastards who will prey on the emotions of others to get what they want, and don't give a damn about the people they hurt along the way. But I'm not convinced these are more prevelant on a swinging site - there seem to be plenty of such people out there in "real life", in my experience.
Sex God
I guess this is yet another one for the 'gender fairness' pile . Whatever you say about men must also apply to women , and we mustnt paint either sex as the primary victim . I would suggest that the real problem comes from the age old confusion of trying on the one hand to live , for want of a better term , a 'hedonistic' lifestyle and claiming to be unshackled from conventional ties , and then -when it suits the individual -to try and apply standards of morality and relationships . The basic standards you describe do apply of course in general society , but conventional morality of course begins to unwind like one of your aunties badly knitted sweaters when you drop a few stitches just to suit your mood.
The question arises when someone becomes involved claiming one reason (and perhaps fooling even themselves that they have that motive) and in fact is emotionally searching for something else . Often people enter this lifestyle as a reaction or distraction from something that has hurt or dissapointed them , and they dont really embrace or understand that the ground rules dont exist . Because we have suspended convention basically the old rules dont apply in the same way , no matter how hard you may want them to when it suits you .
I know there have been some successful meetings and relationships formed here , as there may be in any of the many and varied not to mention odd walks of life , those are blind luck and could just as easily have happened at Tesco's. Truth is though anyone entering this world with a heartfelt desire to find a serious relationship is starting in the wrong place , and as such leaves themselves open and vulnerable .
We would all do better to be honest with those vulnerable individuals involved in that way , no matter how hurtful, than to waste time trying to berate the predators who prey on them , as they always will .
G
The question arises when someone becomes involved claiming one reason (and perhaps fooling even themselves that they have that motive) and in fact is emotionally searching for something else . Often people enter this lifestyle as a reaction or distraction from something that has hurt or dissapointed them , and they dont really embrace or understand that the ground rules dont exist . Because we have suspended convention basically the old rules dont apply in the same way , no matter how hard you may want them to when it suits you .
I know there have been some successful meetings and relationships formed here , as there may be in any of the many and varied not to mention odd walks of life , those are blind luck and could just as easily have happened at Tesco's. Truth is though anyone entering this world with a heartfelt desire to find a serious relationship is starting in the wrong place , and as such leaves themselves open and vulnerable .
We would all do better to be honest with those vulnerable individuals involved in that way , no matter how hurtful, than to waste time trying to berate the predators who prey on them , as they always will .
G
Quote by corriefem
...my understanding of swinging is about playful fun between consenting adults where the ground rules are that there should be no emotional attachment that could hurt any of the people involved.
Exactly.
I think the problem here is that emotional attachment isn't somethng you can choose to have or not have, and 'playful fun' as you put it implys that some pretty strong unattached emotions are going to be flying around if all is going well.
Quote by corriefem
There are though I feel some men who may see this site as a place which must seem rather like a sweet shop where women may be a commodity that can be used and replaced with ease.
Hmmm, I'm puzzled by this statement. While your tone seems to imply this is a bad thing, isn't this behaviour entirely acceptable by the rules you set out above?
Reversing the sexes, I feel there are some women who see this site as rather like a sweet shop where men are be a commodity that can be used and replaced with ease... and I've had the time of my life being used by some of them, for which I'm eternally thankful!
I'm drawn to the conclusion that you must mean emotionally used, not just physically used. Which again leads me to a state of confusion, since a one-way emotional tie has been formed if that's true, and it's the 'victim' that has formed the tie, not the 'predator'. Surely it's the 'victim' who should have said 'back off, I'm starting to get emotionally invovled here', not the 'predator' who should have said 'I'm backing off because I think you might be going to get emotionally involved'?
Thought I would just add my own experience to this. My wife does not want to swing but gives me enough freedom to have other partners- not with her approval as such but allows me to carry on by passive consent. What happens is I meet someone who wants a sexual relationship and I stay seeing that one person for a long time because
>>> I don’t want to hurt my wife by being promiscuous
>>>I don’t want to risk heath problems associated with many partners
>>>The sex gets better the more you know someone
The result is that if you are meeting someone, having great sex and getting to know them, a relationship will form.
The risk is getting hurt but that’s life. The most pleasant and exciting experiences seem to involve risk.
The reason for using Swinging Heaven is that this is the place where people will tell you want they want and their boundaries before you meet, thus reducing the need for misleading or being mislead.
Patience is needed as the regularity of "Woman seeks man for early morning hard and hot sex- have own handcuffs" are few and far between!!
“Better to have loved and lost than never loved at all†????
Emotion always improves the sex for me- someone you like and makes you hot and has the added zing of being a relationship based on sex!!! Sizzle :twisted:
>>> I don’t want to hurt my wife by being promiscuous
>>>I don’t want to risk heath problems associated with many partners
>>>The sex gets better the more you know someone
The result is that if you are meeting someone, having great sex and getting to know them, a relationship will form.
The risk is getting hurt but that’s life. The most pleasant and exciting experiences seem to involve risk.
The reason for using Swinging Heaven is that this is the place where people will tell you want they want and their boundaries before you meet, thus reducing the need for misleading or being mislead.
Patience is needed as the regularity of "Woman seeks man for early morning hard and hot sex- have own handcuffs" are few and far between!!
“Better to have loved and lost than never loved at all†????
Emotion always improves the sex for me- someone you like and makes you hot and has the added zing of being a relationship based on sex!!! Sizzle :twisted:
Sex God
Do you ever feel like theres a glitch and your own post is showing up on your PC but invisible on everyone elses lololol?
Sex God
We'd only slap you if thats what you wanted xx
replies arent compulsory :-)
replies arent compulsory :-)
I feel it necessary to make some distinctions here....
I know people who've come here to SH for some reason other than swinging... and being quite open and honest that what they're looking for is a relationship. That's fine, even if they get some way down that path and figure out that's not what they wanted after all. As long they are open and honest in their dealings with others, then I see no problem with that.
I know people who've come here in the immediate aftermath of a relationship breakup and feel the need to "put themselves about a bit", to exorcise whatever demons are still hanging around in their emotional makeup. And that's fine too, I'm sure everyone would wish these people the best of luck in finding what they need to move onwards.
I also know people here that are genuine swingers, and are here because this is the best place to meet other swingers, and they never pretend to be anything else.
And then of course there's the married / attached people who come here to "cheat" without their partner's knowledge, but that's been done to death lol
What is unforgiveable, either here or "in real life", is being dishonest about who you are, what you're after or your level of emotional commitment to a relationship. Whether you want an engagement ring or the chance to get in someone's knickers it doesn't matter, that's deception plain and simple, and is unacceptable behaviour here, or in the real world for that matter.
This is what I think Corrie was getting at, and I agree with her 100%
I know people who've come here to SH for some reason other than swinging... and being quite open and honest that what they're looking for is a relationship. That's fine, even if they get some way down that path and figure out that's not what they wanted after all. As long they are open and honest in their dealings with others, then I see no problem with that.
I know people who've come here in the immediate aftermath of a relationship breakup and feel the need to "put themselves about a bit", to exorcise whatever demons are still hanging around in their emotional makeup. And that's fine too, I'm sure everyone would wish these people the best of luck in finding what they need to move onwards.
I also know people here that are genuine swingers, and are here because this is the best place to meet other swingers, and they never pretend to be anything else.
And then of course there's the married / attached people who come here to "cheat" without their partner's knowledge, but that's been done to death lol
What is unforgiveable, either here or "in real life", is being dishonest about who you are, what you're after or your level of emotional commitment to a relationship. Whether you want an engagement ring or the chance to get in someone's knickers it doesn't matter, that's deception plain and simple, and is unacceptable behaviour here, or in the real world for that matter.
This is what I think Corrie was getting at, and I agree with her 100%
Sex God
Take your points Luce. I dont disagree , and what you said is to some extent true. What I was getting at was not an issue about being honest with others . Deliberately being dishonest with other people for your own motives is always wrong . What I meant was that sometimes we arent as honest as we can be with ourselves , or perhaps dont understand our own motives for whatever complex reasons .
What I was suggesting is that trying to remove the danger of dishonest predatory people is a virtually impossible task as they tend to breed quicker than us honest folk . So perhaps the best approach is to help people to recognise the dangers of a swinging site as a route to finding permanent relationships , and perhaps help them to realise that swinging isnt what they want deep down at all , as many of the members here have realised all on their own.
What I was suggesting is that trying to remove the danger of dishonest predatory people is a virtually impossible task as they tend to breed quicker than us honest folk . So perhaps the best approach is to help people to recognise the dangers of a swinging site as a route to finding permanent relationships , and perhaps help them to realise that swinging isnt what they want deep down at all , as many of the members here have realised all on their own.
Speaking as a single male - and this being my first foray into the forum, too - i'm impressed with some of the things being said. The matter of honesty was a well-made point: so long as people are honest about what they want and what they are, then fine (personally, I'm not bothered if they claim to be a pest control operative called Cindy when they're really a Quantity Surveyor called Denise). I've never been a predatory male (years ago, women had to virtually mug me to get any kind of sexual message across, I was that stand-offish) but I appreciate that some are and as long as they state that reaonably clearly in their ads or replies, then no-one's under any illusions.
Incidentally, I've received a number of replies from girls claiming to have left the site because they were "shocked with the replies" or "didn't get very far, try site XYZ instead": if they're genuine - and not simply lures to get us to visit other sites - then how does the panel respond to their reaction?
Incidentally, I've received a number of replies from girls claiming to have left the site because they were "shocked with the replies" or "didn't get very far, try site XYZ instead": if they're genuine - and not simply lures to get us to visit other sites - then how does the panel respond to their reaction?
Mr Hornybear, you are so right with the need to take thing slowly. However, as you stated some peoples idea of slowly is no "doing it" on the first date. The beauty of the internet and chat software is that it has opened up the getting to know someone, and these things are important.
But when people read the newspapers, life for example the news of the world(brought for the pictures honest lol) on sunday about pervs dogging and doing it on the first meet it gives all swingers(at what ever level they be) a bad name. However it is due to these reports that many people have stumbled onto the scene with a disillusioned view of swinging. I remember watching Eyes Wide Shut, and that opened my eyes to the possibilities but i never imagined that i would be part of anything that eroctic and as yet i haven't.
I myself have only recently be able to openly tell people i know that i am Bi, not because i was scared but because it was none of their business. But now if they what to know i'll tell them if i trust them. It is honesty, my wife knew, my close friends knew. But if someone was to betray that trust because for example they were writing an article i would feel used and abused (prob like the poor couple in the news of the world on sunday).
What bugs me these days is that society is unable to tolerate anything not deemed normal behaviour. For years we have campaigned for gay rights etc and now that it is almost exceptable to most people, swingers are becoming the enemy of the state, and i think this site helps to remove some of the stigma and daydreams that surround swinging, and hopefully with threads like this one the record can be set straight for other swingers or new swingers. Swinging Heaven="The handbook for the newly Swung"
BBx
But when people read the newspapers, life for example the news of the world(brought for the pictures honest lol) on sunday about pervs dogging and doing it on the first meet it gives all swingers(at what ever level they be) a bad name. However it is due to these reports that many people have stumbled onto the scene with a disillusioned view of swinging. I remember watching Eyes Wide Shut, and that opened my eyes to the possibilities but i never imagined that i would be part of anything that eroctic and as yet i haven't.
I myself have only recently be able to openly tell people i know that i am Bi, not because i was scared but because it was none of their business. But now if they what to know i'll tell them if i trust them. It is honesty, my wife knew, my close friends knew. But if someone was to betray that trust because for example they were writing an article i would feel used and abused (prob like the poor couple in the news of the world on sunday).
What bugs me these days is that society is unable to tolerate anything not deemed normal behaviour. For years we have campaigned for gay rights etc and now that it is almost exceptable to most people, swingers are becoming the enemy of the state, and i think this site helps to remove some of the stigma and daydreams that surround swinging, and hopefully with threads like this one the record can be set straight for other swingers or new swingers. Swinging Heaven="The handbook for the newly Swung"
BBx
I suspect that single guys using SH are just the same as single guys or indeed all people everywhere - they bring whatever emotional attitudes and baggage they carry with them in the rest of their lives to interacting on the 'net - whether its SH or any other net-based contact medium. This means you'll get some nasty ones and some nice ones so you need to be very careful to sort the wheat from the chav!
My dilemma is how soon to provide a face pic to people who ask for it. I'd rather not send a face pic until I've chatted to people a bit to check they are genuine (don't want it posted all over the net as I wish to keep my private life private - maybe I'm being paranoid here?) and that we have some common ground. But some people demand a face pic immediately, which means there's no chance of it going any further unless I take a risk.
What do other people think?
PS In the short time I've been visiting SH I'm very impressed with how thoughtful people are in general.
My dilemma is how soon to provide a face pic to people who ask for it. I'd rather not send a face pic until I've chatted to people a bit to check they are genuine (don't want it posted all over the net as I wish to keep my private life private - maybe I'm being paranoid here?) and that we have some common ground. But some people demand a face pic immediately, which means there's no chance of it going any further unless I take a risk.
What do other people think?
PS In the short time I've been visiting SH I'm very impressed with how thoughtful people are in general.
